DAAD chairwoman Thida mocks Suthep's 'Elite Council' proposal

[SheungWan]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

And if you think Suthep isn't equally the elites stooge then you are delusional

One can only smile at the word 'elites'. What on earth do you think Thaksin is other than a renegade member of the ruling class?

[gabruce]

Of course the rich élite are worth a lot more they pay more tax so poor people are not worth anything not even a vote.

Sorry. You are wrong. Poor people should have a vote. Same for rich people and those in between.

Of course there are many different types of government possible, including those that don't allow voting or have different criteria (age, land owners, party membership, sex) for voting eligibility. Personally I think that only people taller than 180cm should be allowed to vote.

[Emptyset]

Whybother:

He proposed an unelected peoples council to get the required reforms done, followed by elections - with one-man one vote.

That is not actually completely clear, is it? How do we know what the reforms will eventually entail and that the process will necessarily result in the continuation of the one-man one-vote system? There are people on Suthep's side that would like to do away with the system altogether, and move to a selection based system. If after they've spent a period of time reforming, I can't see them trusting the electorate with a vote if they're not absolutely certain that Thaksin's proxy party can be beaten. They won't give up power so easily this time.

(Apologies for accidentally deleting your name when I quoted you).

Edited December 16, 2013 by Emptyset

[Smokemachine]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Standard line from the Thaksin hater's.

I support change, I support new elections, I support democracy, I support one man one vote.

Suthep the oxygen thief supports himself, his mates, his bank balance, and the idea that Thai people from the north are not equal to those from the south, Talk to your Thai wife/gf, she will tell you the same thing, Thai people from the south look down on any other Thai people and not the same, so how could Suthep form any kind of FAIR PEOPLES COUNCIL??? he wants an elite council at the cost of democracy, and Mark needs to take the dems too the elections and the people of Thailand will tell all who they want as the government...

For 500 baht what opinion would you like? The Thaksin method.

Another standard Thaksin hater line...

Do you think Thaksin could really buy all 15,000,000 PTP votes? how much baht would that be??? so how much money do you think he has???

He may not have cash to buy all votes but he can make empty promises to them.

There is a youtube video clip about a former ex-red shirt TS supporter. She is caught for bombing the BKK in 2010. She volunteered to show up in the anti-government rally. She publicly told everyone that the reason why she agreed to bomb BKK in 2010 because they agreed to pay her around 1.5million baht. She admitted she is poor and that lead her to the temptation. She was caught for bombing and went into prison. She said initially they help her case for first 3 months. After that she is a lonely ranger. After she release, she has not receive the reward yet as promised.

She was crying on the stage and feeling regretful, holding up the HM photo proudly saying She love the King. Ex-red supporter from other video clip also revealed that they teach the red shirt supporters to love TS and not the HM.

I don't really support or liken Suthep.

But is TS really a good person?

What is his real motive?

And pls don't keep saying south Thais looking down on North Thais. Thailand is divided all because of you all. My wife family, some staying in BKK, some in Pattaya, Some in Chiangmai, Some in Phichit. Are they looking down on each other?

People really need to stop this South Thai and North thai crap.

[zaZa9]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Standard line from the Thaksin hater's.

I support change, I support new elections, I support democracy, I support one man one vote.

Suthep the oxygen thief supports himself, his mates, his bank balance, and the idea that Thai people from the north are not equal to those from the south, Talk to your Thai wife/gf, she will tell you the same thing, Thai people from the south look down on any other Thai people and not the same, so how could Suthep form any kind of FAIR PEOPLES COUNCIL??? he wants an elite council at the cost of democracy, and Mark needs to take the dems too the elections and the people of Thailand will tell all who they want as the government...

For 500 baht what opinion would you like? The Thaksin method.

Thats thorough BS.

I live in the South in a Yellow stronghold and the payment for a vote has always been 500 baht. So too my Southern gfs 2 previous locations.

Where did this crap that only the Red Shirts buy votes start?

[blaze]

Back when Sondhi was ad-hoc ing a poltical vision on the PaD stages and now, with Suthep's "People's Council', many have compared these notions to fascism.

But it should be remembered that fascism was a coherent philosophy- in encompassed and intigrated a social, economic and political vision that would (it was believed) serve Italy well far into the future.

The Thai version exists for one and only one purpose- to expunge one man from the political conciousness. We had a constitution designed specifically to limit the influence of this one man. Now we have talk of 'reform' ;where the only goal of this 'reform' is to limit Thakin's influence.

There have been revolutions staged against one man- civil wars with one man as the focus- but I have never heard of an entire political system being developed solely to limit one man's influence.

Does any one seriously think that these ca;;s for 'reforms' are inspired by, among other factors, the nepotism, warlord politics of Nakhon Si Tammarat- Surat Thani? Within the state agencies and their cushy relationship with their unions? Of course not- 'corruption' is code for Thaksin.

This is more like an exorcism than the enactment of political vision- Perhaps it is simple skapegoating- get rid of Thaksin and Thailand will return to its pristine past. But ideology? Vision?

The danger of course is that reforms aimed specifically designed to limit Thaksin's influence will remain embeded in the system-- Then when a new political force comes on the scene in a few years or decades- the system will have to dismantled and reformed again-

If these people could concentrate solely on principles- and leave personalities out of the vision- then Thailand might be prepared to move forward.

[Spare]

... the rich élite are worth a lot more they pay more tax...

Citation needed.

Not just the amount of tax you pay. Education level should be incorporated in to the voting system using an exponential system

Eg. Educated less than or equal to secondary school = 50% vote.

Bachelor Degree from non famous university = 75% vote

Bachelor Degree from Chula, Thamasart, overseas = 125% vote

Master = 400% vote

pHd = 1600% vote.

[jonclark]

"If you can't accept the one-man one-vote system, I would like to ask you to ponder whether you think some groups of humans are more valuable than others," fair point I'd say

Fair point indeed.

But clearly different groups of humans are more valuable than others. Would a 'random group of 10' highly skilled doctors have more value than a 'random group of 10 unskilled workers'

I guess it depends on how value is defined and by whom.

In Thailand you are neither born nor do you die an equal (in value?) to your peers

But since when has real democracy inferred that the vote of '10 highly skilled doctors' trumps that of '10 unskilled workers?'

The whole odious assertion that Thailand needs a fast-track, 'special council' of 'selected' individuals rather than use the normal processes of making sure your democratically elected representatives make the changes that allows real democracy to develop in Thailand. Although it may be a bit of a stretch but maybe Suthep has read up on history and appreciates the necessity of Oliver Cromwell's or George Washington's actions on the way to democracy... but I doubt it. A coup is a coup.

NanLaew - I was talking of value (in the wider context) not votes - apologies for any confusion.

Has anyone considered if democracy is actually the best political system for Thailand at the moment. Democracy in Thailand is a word often used by often badly misunderstood.

Do the people understand the values and ideals which underpin democracy as a social system - The right to equality (sexual, social and legal) , mutual respect for others, the presumption of innocence in a crime, the equal right to police protection, a government that works for all the peoples needs (not the other way around) Liberty, the right to think and say what you want without interference from government.

It seems to me that Thailand has got it back to front - They claim to have democracy - at face value - but the ideals on which democracy is based are absent, whilst those that exist do so in an embryonic form, without any nurturing or protection.

If this underpinning ideology behind democracy could be culturally embedded in Thailand, then it may have a chance of becoming a decent functioning democracy. Without them it simply will not work

[ggold]

"If you can't accept the one-man one-vote system, I would like to ask you to ponder whether you think some groups of humans are more valuable than others," fair point I'd say

Fair point indeed.

But clearly different groups of humans are more valuable than others. Would a 'random group of 10' highly skilled doctors have more value than a 'random group of 10 unskilled workers'

I guess it depends on how value is defined and by whom.

In Thailand you are neither born nor do you die an equal (in value?) to your peers

yes that is true... but do we assign, say, 5 votes to a Doctor and 1 to a farmer? or do we say well the Doctor, with his/her, more proficient brain should be able to convince the farmer? the problem is there are 'Doctors' on either side

maybe there is a better system than 'one man one vote' but I don't see it in the developed world let alone a fledgling world like Thailand. The emphasis, surely, is a non-corrupt election process but Dear Leader Suthep has already stated:

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them,"

with regard to Election Monitors from outside Thailand - the very thing he states he wants - an unbiased and uncorrupt election

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them,"

It's his right to say such a thing if he wants to! quite what it has to do with one man one vote, I'm still trying to work out?

As if electorial monitors have any sway in the matter! They are just observers and one might question what exactly they observe!

Edited December 16, 2013 by ggold

[JRSoul]

Did the DAAD members have a meeting and vote on the resolution by Thida? Are there any members?

[Carrerakiss]

"If you can't accept the one-man one-vote system, I would like to ask you to ponder whether you think some groups of humans are more valuable than others," fair point I'd say

Fair point indeed.

But clearly different groups of humans are more valuable than others. Would a 'random group of 10' highly skilled doctors have more value than a 'random group of 10 unskilled workers'

I guess it depends on how value is defined and by whom.

In Thailand you are neither born nor do you die an equal (in value?) to your peers

But since when has real democracy inferred that the vote of '10 highly skilled doctors' trumps that of '10 unskilled workers?'

The whole odious assertion that Thailand needs a fast-track, 'special council' of 'selected' individuals rather than use the normal processes of making sure your democratically elected representatives make the changes that allows real democracy to develop in Thailand. Although it may be a bit of a stretch but maybe Suthep has read up on history and appreciates the necessity of Oliver Cromwell's or George Washington's actions on the way to democracy... but I doubt it. A coup is a coup.

NanLaew - I was talking of value (in the wider context) not votes - apologies for any confusion.

Has anyone considered if democracy is actually the best political system for Thailand at the moment. Democracy in Thailand is a word often used by often badly misunderstood.

Do the people understand the values and ideals which underpin democracy as a social system - The right to equality (sexual, social and legal) , mutual respect for others, the presumption of innocence in a crime, the equal right to police protection, a government that works for all the peoples needs (not the other way around) Liberty, the right to think and say what you want without interference from government.

It seems to me that Thailand has got it back to front - They claim to have democracy - at face value - but the ideals on which democracy is based are absent, whilst those that exist do so in an embryonic form, without any nurturing or protection.

If this underpinning ideology behind democracy could be culturally embedded in Thailand, then it may have a chance of becoming a decent functioning democracy. Without them it simply will not work

I live in Isaan and I can assure you that most of the local poor uneducated people understand the values and ideals you speak of. The problem is that there is no rule of law. So everybody cheats at everything, everybody knows people cheat at everything, but can do nothing about it because the police are or may well be in on the cheating. So total apathy sets in and everybody joins in the cheating.

By cheating, I mean the breaking of any law be it to do with voting, drugs, traffic etc.

For example, when explaining how things work in a foreign country, how many times have you heard a Thai person say, yes, but it's not like that in Thailand? People here know enough, but the entrenched lack of rule of law means nothing ever has or ever will change.

The only difference between Thailand and Western countries, is the lack of law enforcement. Everything stems from that. If they can get away with something, human beings the world over will get away with them. Thais are past masters.

[Zolt]

... the rich élite are worth a lot more they pay more tax...

Citation needed.

Not just the amount of tax you pay. Education level should be incorporated in to the voting system using an exponential system

Eg. Educated less than or equal to secondary school = 50% vote.

Bachelor Degree from non famous university = 75% vote

Bachelor Degree from Chula, Thamasart, overseas = 125% vote

Master = 400% vote

pHd = 1600% vote.

How about no, no no just hell no!

Democracy with one man one vote is note a good system of government. It will keep producing greedy and corrupt politicians, and that's not unique to Thailand at all.

The only thing is, every other system that's been tried is demonstrably worse. Much worse. And the technocracy that you're proposing ranks right down there with the worst of them. Not only it's ridiculously arbitrary, it's equivalent to giving a giant Fu_ck you to about 95% of the population that would get less than 100% voting rights. You think they would take it well? If the current system is making 40% of the population unhappy, do you think making 95% unhappy would be an improvement?

[Baerboxer]

"If you can't accept the one-man one-vote system, I would like to ask you to ponder whether you think some groups of humans are more valuable than others," fair point I'd say

Yes, and she clearly believes everyone's equal.

Ever read "Animal Farm" ? Well she, and the other self appointed red shirt leaders, their boss in Dubai and all his clan and cronies are a bit like the piggies - more equal than others. That's why the laws don't apply to them, and why they believe the country and all its money belongs to them, you see.

Unfortunately, the opposition seem to have similar thoughts too.

[Baerboxer]

Did the DAAD members have a meeting and vote on the resolution by Thida? Are there any members?

Don't be so pedantic!

The DAAD leaders are not democratically elected. The Red Shirt masses do as they're told.

PTP ministers are not democratically elected. They are appointed by their strategic thinker, leader, and erstwhile caddy.

This small group of self appointed leaders, clan members and Dear Leader know what's best for Thailand. There is no need to discuss, negotiate, hold real democratic elections or consult the masses, What do they know anyway.

This paternalistic regime only wants to do what's right for the Thai people. Of course, they must reward themselves, extended families and cronies for all the hard work, stress and effort they put in.

Hail PTP style democracy. Something they'd love to take to the UNSC. (Wonder how many times they'd vote against China?).

[Baerboxer]

Whybother:

He proposed an unelected peoples council to get the required reforms done, followed by elections - with one-man one vote.

That is not actually completely clear, is it? How do we know what the reforms will eventually entail and that the process will necessarily result in the continuation of the one-man one-vote system? There are people on Suthep's side that would like to do away with the system altogether, and move to a selection based system. If after they've spent a period of time reforming, I can't see them trusting the electorate with a vote if they're not absolutely certain that Thaksin's proxy party can be beaten. They won't give up power so easily this time.

(Apologies for accidentally deleting your name when I quoted you).

Unfortunately for Thailand you're correct. Neither side will trust the other, which on past performance is hardly surprising.

Somehow there need to be an independent reform body. Not Suthep appointing all his mates, or PTP simply doing what Thaksin wants. How this could be brought about, I really don't know given the ingrained corruption, and powerful vested interests on both sides.

At the moment, an election on the 2nd Feb, whatever the result, is unlikely to be accepted by a large % of the people. A "people's council" would probably prove more divisive, once the participants were identified unless it was truly representative, which I can't see happening.

This impasse looks set for now.

[tingtongteesood]

"If you can't accept the one-man one-vote system, I would like to ask you to ponder whether you think some groups of humans are more valuable than others," fair point I'd say

But under the Thaksin regime, it is certainly not 'one man one vote'. It is more like 'One man one vote if you vote for my opponent and one man two votes if you vote for me' - 3 parties dissolved and banned for electoral fraud - says it all really.

[Bluespunk]

@Blaze

"But it should be remembered that fascism was a coherent philosophy- in encompassed and intigrated a social, economic and political vision that would (it was believed) serve Italy well far into the future."

Having studied both history and political philosophy I find it difficult to agree with that aspect of your statement. Fascists in Italy while more benign that its nazi version relied upon corruption, violence, deception and nepotism. It was inept, incompetent and at the leadership level bellicose. It did not allow freedom of thought, expression or action. It was in many ways responsible for the political and social chaos that followed WW2 in Italy, not completely responsible I concede, but it was a major contributing factor.

[scotbeve]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Standard line from the Thaksin hater's.

I support change, I support new elections, I support democracy, I support one man one vote.

Suthep the oxygen thief supports himself, his mates, his bank balance, and the idea that Thai people from the north are not equal to those from the south, Talk to your Thai wife/gf, she will tell you the same thing, Thai people from the south look down on any other Thai people and not the same, so how could Suthep form any kind of FAIR PEOPLES COUNCIL??? he wants an elite council at the cost of democracy, and Mark needs to take the dems too the elections and the people of Thailand will tell all who they want as the government...

Pretty much spot on aussieinTH...... and yes, he (Suthep) has very high backing and money. The protest costs him 5M Baht a day. He's mega rich but not that rich.

[rubl]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Standard line from the Thaksin hater's.

I support change, I support new elections, I support democracy, I support one man one vote.

Suthep the oxygen thief supports himself, his mates, his bank balance, and the idea that Thai people from the north are not equal to those from the south, Talk to your Thai wife/gf, she will tell you the same thing, Thai people from the south look down on any other Thai people and not the same, so how could Suthep form any kind of FAIR PEOPLES COUNCIL??? he wants an elite council at the cost of democracy, and Mark needs to take the dems too the elections and the people of Thailand will tell all who they want as the government...

Pretty much spot on aussieinTH...... and yes, he (Suthep) has very high backing and money. The protest costs him 5M Baht a day. He's mega rich but not that rich.

... and in the mean time we have the UDD (aka DAAD) wanting an election to be able to vote for Pheu Thai again, the party which happily tried to push for a blanket amnesty bill which included not just Thaksin but even the 'pre-meditated murdering duo' Abhisit/Suthep.

Now there is an opportunity to mock

[Frank James]

I think Thida might be a good choice for PM, if and when PT wins the upcoming election. She's smart, tough, well spoken, mature, and has great political instincts. Yingluck would probably be happy to be relieved of the responsibility. The strain is really taking its toll on her.

(Cue howls of derision from the Thaksin Must Die Brigade.)

[rubl]

I think Thida might be a good choice for PM, if and when PT wins the upcoming election. She's smart, tough, well spoken, mature, and has great political instincts. Yingluck would probably be happy to be relieved of the responsibility. The strain is really taking its toll on her.

(Cue howls of derision from the Thaksin Must Die Brigade.)

Ms. Thida might be all that, but she has at least one liability she needs to distance herself from. Her husband Dr. weng has made statements like "eradicating the Democrats party' and "perhaps time to wipe out reactionary forces from Thai soil". One wouldn't want her to start as PM with that type of baggage, that would give the opposition too much on her before she could even get started

[Ulic]

Of course they did. Steering Thailand away from democracy to a Fascist state is a laugher of an idea.

Get rid of the corruption in both parties, for that matter in all of Thailand's politics. It will take decades

as corruption is found in all governments around the world. On a scale of 1-10 Thailand is a 9 (just an opinion)

Work to get it to a 1-2. Of course you could institutionalize corruption like the USA and bring in the

special interest lobby groups but at least it would be an improvement.

[Siripon]

I think Thida might be a good choice for PM, if and when PT wins the upcoming election. She's smart, tough, well spoken, mature, and has great political instincts. Yingluck would probably be happy to be relieved of the responsibility. The strain is really taking its toll on her.

(Cue howls of derision from the Thaksin Must Die Brigade.)

555 Can I continue the joke Frank? She's attractive, charming and charismatic...5555.. Disliked by even the other red shirt leaders, never mind Pheua Thai or the Democrats.

People should forget focusing on the personalities and should turn to the details.

Who is recommending what.

Don't forget there are 3 reports on reform already written ,waiting to be implemented- Khun Anand's, Dr Prawait's and Khun Khanit's.

All stake holders should be locked in a room for a week and told to read the 3 reports.

[diehard60]

Who is Gothom Arya? Why is a non -Thai there? What does he know about Thailand and where was he 3 years ago when suthep (PDRC) and the Dems were killing people in the streets??????

[binjalin]

I think Thida might be a good choice for PM, if and when PT wins the upcoming election. She's smart, tough, well spoken, mature, and has great political instincts. Yingluck would probably be happy to be relieved of the responsibility. The strain is really taking its toll on her.

(Cue howls of derision from the Thaksin Must Die Brigade.)

I was thinking that back in the dark 2010 days and still think she's a 'heavyweight' and smart to boot

[jonclark]

I live in Isaan and I can assure you that most of the local poor uneducated people understand the values and ideals you speak of. The problem is that there is no rule of law. So everybody cheats at everything, everybody knows people cheat at everything, but can do nothing about it because the police are or may well be in on the cheating. So total apathy sets in and everybody joins in the cheating.

By cheating, I mean the breaking of any law be it to do with voting, drugs, traffic etc.

For example, when explaining how things work in a foreign country, how many times have you heard a Thai person say, yes, but it's not like that in Thailand? People here know enough, but the entrenched lack of rule of law means nothing ever has or ever will change.

The only difference between Thailand and Western countries, is the lack of law enforcement. Everything stems from that. If they can get away with something, human beings the world over will get away with them. Thais are past masters.

Good. So in Issan they understand the values, but choose to ignore them or (cheat) because everyone else does, as there is no rule of law to prevent such cheating. Do I understand you correctly?

Because if your answer to the question is 'yes'. Then clearly they don't understand those values as they would act to protect them and demand that those who represent them ensure these values are upheld. Either that or they feel too helpless to try, and one would argue that these principles are a luxury they simply cannot afford.

What you rightly summarize is common in the vast majority of places in Thailand. - Yes we may agree with the democratic principles [if it suits me] , but our daily actions constantly undermine these principles. It is a complete paradox. And its because Thailand is culturally entrenched in a strict social hierarchy (a social hierarchy which is currently being expanded into national politics) where principles are compromised at the behest of your 'social betters' - be that the village headman who dictates how you vote and rewards you, or the village (in village bloc voting - which happens) or a police officer who makes a 'problem' disappear and is rewarded. And I'm sure you have your own examples of this type of situation.

The crux seems to be the desire for short term financial and social rewards for compromising democratic principles and the ease with which most people compromise the principles means Thailand simply isn't ready to be a democratic nation.

[Siripon]

Who is Gothom Arya? Why is a non -Thai there? What does he know about Thailand and where was he 3 years ago when suthep (PDRC) and the Dems were killing people in the streets??????

Oh dear, you know nothing.

[LomSak27]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD

Is a Thaksin Front

[Nacho]

Thida is a Thaksin paid stooge

Standard line from the Thaksin hater's.

I support change, I support new elections, I support democracy, I support one man one vote.

Suthep the oxygen thief supports himself, his mates, his bank balance, and the idea that Thai people from the north are not equal to those from the south, Talk to your Thai wife/gf, she will tell you the same thing, Thai people from the south look down on any other Thai people and not the same, so how could Suthep form any kind of FAIR PEOPLES COUNCIL??? he wants an elite council at the cost of democracy, and Mark needs to take the dems too the elections and the people of Thailand will tell all who they want as the government...

The exact could be said about the other side of the fence. Also Mark is taking a break from politics. Try to keep up.

[binjalin]

... the rich élite are worth a lot more they pay more tax...

Citation needed.

Not just the amount of tax you pay. Education level should be incorporated in to the voting system using an exponential system

Eg. Educated less than or equal to secondary school = 50% vote.

Bachelor Degree from non famous university = 75% vote

Bachelor Degree from Chula, Thamasart, overseas = 125% vote

Master = 400% vote

pHd = 1600% vote.

I have 2 master so i get 800%?