F1 2014

[Guest]

Yeah, internet votes have that possibility. However the voting requires login and it would become quite a mess to manage several different accounts which are using different IP numbers etc.

Formula E thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/759908-formula-e-2014/ so that it will not be mixed to this F1 thread.

[Basil B]

It has been very noticeable over the last few races how engineers are able to tell drivers where they can improve, Charlie has reminded teams about a rule that drivers must "drive alone and unaided".

Does that mean there will not be able to hang pit boards out, and during qualifying and the race they will have to turn off the big TV displays to stop drivers getting information from them?

Teams will find a way round it, like people strategically placed in grandstands who frequently change there "T" shirts, each colour has a meaning.

[Mosha]

It has been very noticeable over the last few races how engineers are able to tell drivers where they can improve, Charlie has reminded teams about a rule that drivers must "drive alone and unaided".

Does that mean there will not be able to hang pit boards out, and during qualifying and the race they will have to turn off the big TV displays to stop drivers getting information from them?

Teams will find a way round it, like people strategically placed in grandstands who frequently change there "T" shirts, each colour has a meaning.

Didn't Rubens have a team of Lawyers from Ferrari driving with him?

Will the rules mean. Let xxx pass he's quicker than you is no more?

[rixalex]

- Lewis is surrounded by yes-men, which combined with the fact that he is not mentally very strong driver.

Think that Italy totally debunks that theory about him not being a mentally strong driver. Not that he hasn't at times shown signs of mental weakness, but when you consider what he has had thrown at him this season, including things like brake failure, engine fire, collision, puncture and having to fight from the back of the grid several times... his mental strength has been under much sterner examination than Nico's.

How would Nico's mental strength be like had situations been reversed? How will his strength be if say for example Lewis wins the next race and he suffers a DNF, finding himself behind in the title race? That is when we will find out really how strong he is. I actually happen to think that Nico is pretty strong mentally, but the way he reacted at Imola, not only in the way he missed the same corner twice when under pressure, but in other smaller things like the way he asked his race engineer to not tell him what the gap was between him and Lewis, does suggest to me that he doesn't have the mental strength advantage over Lewis that some have been claiming.

Being mentally strong is easy when things are going well and to plan. It's in adversity that we really see how things stand.

Anyway, the Nico / Lewis debate out of the way, i do have to say that for me, once again the stand out man was Daniel.. followed closely by Bottas. Post race Eddie Jordon was saying how, were he setting up a team now, he would be going straight after those two drivers, and i have to agree at what a dream pairing that would be for any team. They both seem to have such great racing craft. Even on fresher tyres, i never thought that Daniel would make such easy work of passing Vettel, and yet he did. Amazing to see a four times world champ being beaten so comprehensively. What on earth is going on there? Of course nobody is saying that he isn't still a great driver, but it does make you wonder just how great.. perhaps being paired together with Webber all those years, who lets face it, was a pretty average driver, helped flatter Vettel a lot and make him seem better than he actually was/is. It reminds me a bit of what we are seeing in MotoGP. For so long we all thought how Lorenzo and Pedrosa were two of the best... well particularly Lorenzo, but now, they both look pretty ordinary.

[rixalex]

Teams will find a way round it, like people strategically placed in grandstands who frequently change there "T" shirts, each colour has a meaning.

I'd be all for that just providing that the person changing their T-Shirt was one of the corporate event pretty girls.

[Basil B]

Teams will find a way round it, like people strategically placed in grandstands who frequently change there "T" shirts, each colour has a meaning.

I'd be all for that just providing that the person changing their T-Shirt was one of the corporate event pretty girls.

Particularly if they do not wear bra's...

[Guest]

- Lewis is surrounded by yes-men, which combined with the fact that he is not mentally very strong driver.

Think that Italy totally debunks that theory about him not being a mentally strong driver. Not that he hasn't at times shown signs of mental weakness, but when you consider what he has had thrown at him this season, including things like brake failure, engine fire, collision, puncture and having to fight from the back of the grid several times... his mental strength has been under much sterner examination than Nico's.

How would Nico's mental strength be like had situations been reversed? How will his strength be if say for example Lewis wins the next race and he suffers a DNF, finding himself behind in the title race? That is when we will find out really how strong he is. I actually happen to think that Nico is pretty strong mentally, but the way he reacted at Imola, not only in the way he missed the same corner twice when under pressure, but in other smaller things like the way he asked his race engineer to not tell him what the gap was between him and Lewis, does suggest to me that he doesn't have the mental strength advantage over Lewis that some have been claiming.

Being mentally strong is easy when things are going well and to plan. It's in adversity that we really see how things stand.

Anyway, the Nico / Lewis debate out of the way, i do have to say that for me, once again the stand out man was Daniel.. followed closely by Bottas. Post race Eddie Jordon was saying how, were he setting up a team now, he would be going straight after those two drivers, and i have to agree at what a dream pairing that would be for any team. They both seem to have such great racing craft. Even on fresher tyres, i never thought that Daniel would make such easy work of passing Vettel, and yet he did. Amazing to see a four times world champ being beaten so comprehensively. What on earth is going on there? Of course nobody is saying that he isn't still a great driver, but it does make you wonder just how great.. perhaps being paired together with Webber all those years, who lets face it, was a pretty average driver, helped flatter Vettel a lot and make him seem better than he actually was/is. It reminds me a bit of what we are seeing in MotoGP. For so long we all thought how Lorenzo and Pedrosa were two of the best... well particularly Lorenzo, but now, they both look pretty ordinary.

I don't think Nico going twice though the corner were accidents. No matter what Toto and the rest of the Wolf pack says. Before the race there were some furious quotations from the wolfpack. They were saying that if they can not control the current drivers, there will be changes who are going to drive the cars.

At this moment Mercedes has already de facto won the both WC titles this year.

I still claim that Nicos mistakes were to give the win to Lewis, no matter what is officially said. Nicos body language at the podium was not one of those who had made couple of stupid mistakes during the race.

What you say about Daniel and Waltteri, I fully agree. They are the future drivers. Imola showed that Kevin is also part of the better ones. The way he protected far faster Bottas was a bit like the moment when Alonso protected his position with much slower car many years ago. I can not remember what race that was, but it was one of those moments when I thought that there is one heck of a driver on the track.

I was also impressed how maturely both Waltteri and Kevin handled the after race interviews. Both were saying it was great racing and perhaps Kevin should had slowed a notch. There was no blaming involved. Those boys are there for racing F1 cars, not doing politics.

[rixalex]

- Lewis is surrounded by yes-men, which combined with the fact that he is not mentally very strong driver.

Think that Italy totally debunks that theory about him not being a mentally strong driver. Not that he hasn't at times shown signs of mental weakness, but when you consider what he has had thrown at him this season, including things like brake failure, engine fire, collision, puncture and having to fight from the back of the grid several times... his mental strength has been under much sterner examination than Nico's.

How would Nico's mental strength be like had situations been reversed? How will his strength be if say for example Lewis wins the next race and he suffers a DNF, finding himself behind in the title race? That is when we will find out really how strong he is. I actually happen to think that Nico is pretty strong mentally, but the way he reacted at Imola, not only in the way he missed the same corner twice when under pressure, but in other smaller things like the way he asked his race engineer to not tell him what the gap was between him and Lewis, does suggest to me that he doesn't have the mental strength advantage over Lewis that some have been claiming.

Being mentally strong is easy when things are going well and to plan. It's in adversity that we really see how things stand.

Anyway, the Nico / Lewis debate out of the way, i do have to say that for me, once again the stand out man was Daniel.. followed closely by Bottas. Post race Eddie Jordon was saying how, were he setting up a team now, he would be going straight after those two drivers, and i have to agree at what a dream pairing that would be for any team. They both seem to have such great racing craft. Even on fresher tyres, i never thought that Daniel would make such easy work of passing Vettel, and yet he did. Amazing to see a four times world champ being beaten so comprehensively. What on earth is going on there? Of course nobody is saying that he isn't still a great driver, but it does make you wonder just how great.. perhaps being paired together with Webber all those years, who lets face it, was a pretty average driver, helped flatter Vettel a lot and make him seem better than he actually was/is. It reminds me a bit of what we are seeing in MotoGP. For so long we all thought how Lorenzo and Pedrosa were two of the best... well particularly Lorenzo, but now, they both look pretty ordinary.

I don't think Nico going twice though the corner were accidents. No matter what Toto and the rest of the Wolf pack says. Before the race there were some furious quotations from the wolfpack. They were saying that if they can not control the current drivers, there will be changes who are going to drive the cars.

At this moment Mercedes has already de facto won the both WC titles this year.

I still claim that Nicos mistakes were to give the win to Lewis, no matter what is officially said. Nicos body language at the podium was not one of those who had made couple of stupid mistakes during the race.

As far as conspiracy theories go, this one about Nico having deliberately gone off the track to gift back Lewis, is frankly one of the daftest I have ever heard. Dafter than the theory about Nico having deliberately punctured Lewis's tyre, and that was pretty daft.

Nico's body language on the podium was that of a man who had had the race win completely within his grasp, and a nice increase in the points gap, but who had thrown it away.

Anyway, as you seem quite keen on conspiracy theories, out of interest, where did you stand on the one concerning Nico having deliberately parked his car in Monaco during qualifying?

[mania]

Yeah have to agree on the Nico drive thru's

While initially it is a thought the reality is far fetched & unlikely

None would ask such a thing from their drivers & it does not explain his

doing it once without any pressure from any driver earlier in the race.

About the new/old enforced radio transmission rule I have to say

Nico is really the only driver I have heard requesting info on his driving.

Saying things like "how is my driving" basically asking for tips about where

he can improve/reduce braking etc.

In fact it was the last race the commentators were asking each other what they thought about that.

One said well it is a team sport now & the other said too much info just let the driver drive is better.

Other teams I do hear the engineers give their drivers info about how to improve a turn/braking etc.

But Nico is the only one I have heard requesting it. I am not saying it is bad or good to make use of all data

It is just that I wondered if this last discussion of it by the commentators I heard spurred the new re-enforcement of that rule

since this news came right after that race.

Edited September 14, 2014 by mania

[rixalex]

Yeah have to agree on the Nico drive thru's

While initially it is a thought the reality is far fetched & unlikely

None would ask such a thing from their drivers & it does not explain his

doing it once without any pressure from any driver earlier in the race.

Agreed.

Nico would never accept it, and Mercedes would never ask it.

And just imagine the fall-out if this ridiculous theory were true and if it ever got out. Mercedes can't stop Nico from speaking, and all it would take is for Nico to get pissed off with the team about something, and then threaten to go public with how they made him fix a race. And if Nico did go public, imagine the media frenzy that would happen and the damage to the Mercedes brand. And all for what? Because the team is so desperate to try and even the books back in Lewis's favour?! Get real. The team really don't care who wins the driver's championship. If Lewis doesn't win it and Nico does, why should Mercedes care? They really don't, and certainly not to the point of getting involved in fixing a result with all the repercussions and reprisals getting found out would bring.

[Basil B]

That corner caught many if not all drivers out over the weekend, so Nico going off when under pressure can be plausible, he got the jump on Lewis, and for the first two or three laps thought he had the race in the bag, when Lewis recovered it was clear that it would only be a few laps before he would be defending him off, Lewis had better times and Nico could have been defending his position but the inevitable smallest mistake would let Lewis take the lead anyway.

As for Nico being told to take a dive I do not think Toto, Paddy or Niki would have even suggested it and I do not think Nico would while there is the slightest posibility of him taking the Championship, but there again anything is possible in F1, Singapore 2008 comes to mind.

[rixalex]

That corner caught many if not all drivers out over the weekend, so Nico going off when under pressure can be plausible, he got the jump on Lewis, and for the first two or three laps thought he had the race in the bag, when Lewis recovered it was clear that it would only be a few laps before he would be defending him off, Lewis had better times and Nico could have been defending his position but the inevitable smallest mistake would let Lewis take the lead anyway.

As for Nico being told to take a dive I do not think Toto, Paddy or Niki would have even suggested it and I do not think Nico would while there is the slightest posibility of him taking the Championship, but there again anything is possible in F1, Singapore 2008 comes to mind.

Very different circumstances in Singapore in terms of the drivers involved and their positions within the team, and very different rewards to be gained by intentionally driving off the track. What happened in Singapore turned the race on its head, so you can see what made it in attractive idea from the team's point of view. As an aside, I still find it amazing that the results for that race were never adjusted to reflect the fact that the result was a farce. The fact that Alonso may or may not have known about what the team were up to is totally besides the point in my view, but there you go.

Back to Imola and Nico, I can really imagine Nico saying before the race, 'ok, so what you want me to do is not only gift Lewis the race win, but do so in a way that makes me look like a bit of a fool who buckles under a tiny bit of pressure... hmm... yeah, why not.. I do owe Lewis one and if this turns out as being the turning point in the season that sees me lose the title, oh well, it's not like winning the title really means that much to me.. and don't worry, I'll never sell this story to the tabloids'.

[Mosha]

Anyone watch Rush? The weather here spoiled it for me

[Basil B]

No more coded messages...

What can and can not be said over the radio, 2 pages detailing 50 items.

Formula 1 teams have been forbidden from using coded messages as part of a ban on giving their drivers advice over team radio.

Governing body the FIA wants to prevent "coaching" by radio, including giving advice on how to go faster in corners.

Among a list of forbidden subjects sent to the teams on Monday were warnings about brake wear and fuel consumption.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29213997

[mania]

Yes it has been fun recently to listen to what is obviously coded radio messages.
The commentators do pretty well remembering when last said & what it probably means

Really looking forward to Singapore should be good. Tight but good

[JAS21]

Interesting ... Mercedes have appointed DTM star Pascal Wehrlein as their Formula One reserve driver.

[Mosha]

It has been very noticeable over the last few races how engineers are able to tell drivers where they can improve, Charlie has reminded teams about a rule that drivers must "drive alone and unaided".

Does that mean there will not be able to hang pit boards out, and during qualifying and the race they will have to turn off the big TV displays to stop drivers getting information from them?

Teams will find a way round it, like people strategically placed in grandstands who frequently change there "T" shirts, each colour has a meaning.

What (apparently) the rules are.

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/175419.html

[mania]

Nico talking about upcoming Singapore

Edited September 16, 2014 by mania

[Mosha]

So Bernie wants 3 cats a team, does that mean cutting spending to make it affordable for poor teams is over?

It would appear the Mercedes bad luck monkey as switched drivers.

[soihok]

Had a good time last night at the track. Caught up with some friends and met some new ones. It was packed in the grandstand at turn 2, loads of beers. It was a long race mind. Nice to see Lewis win but it would have been better if Nico had not retired. All in all a great day out.

[Mosha]

So Bernie wants 3 cats a team, does that mean cutting spending to make it affordable for poor teams is over?

It would appear the Mercedes bad luck monkey as switched drivers.

oops, cars not cats

[ignis]

So Bernie wants 3 cats a team, does that mean cutting spending to make it affordable for poor teams is over?

It would appear the Mercedes bad luck monkey as switched drivers.

oops, cars not cats

some how cats and monkeys have a ring to them

appears F1 is becoming more a Zoo at every Race

Edited September 22, 2014 by ignis

[Basil B]

Yes, pity about poor Nico... but things are starting to equal out in the Mercedes camp.

Yes, Mercedes do have something of a reliability problem but that the price you pay when more emphasise is given to innervation and performance, lets not forget they are certain to win the constructors championship and a Mercedes driver will win the drivers championship.

[mania]

Had a good time last night at the track. Caught up with some friends and met some new ones. It was packed in the grandstand at turn 2, loads of beers. It was a long race mind. Nice to see Lewis win but it would have been better if Nico had not retired. All in all a great day out.

Yes & that is always the case when either Nico or Lewis drops out for any reason.

I think we all look forward to the drama guaranteed if both are on the final lap together 1 & 2

[soihok]

First race of the day was a classic F1 car race. Really going back in time. All that was missing was a six wheel Elf Tyrrell.

Those cars produced more noise than the 2014 cars.

[Basil B]

Mercedes have to tackle the reliability issues which have blighted their otherwise dominant Formula One campaign, says head of Mercedes-Benz motorsport Toto Wolff, who does not want to see a car failure determine who wins the 2014 drivers’ crown.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/9/16394.html

Well if Nico wins by less than 50 points it would be down to Lewis have more than his share of bad luck, as I see it Lewis is marginally faster, has better over tacking skills, and is smarter than Nico, not to say it always consistently like that as both drivers have tremendous skills and the slightest ailment or emotional upset could affect either driver to make the difference.

For lewis to start a race from the pit lane and still get on the podium is a tremendous feat of skill and shear determination, could Nico have done this???

[rixalex]

Mercedes have to tackle the reliability issues which have blighted their otherwise dominant Formula One campaign, says head of Mercedes-Benz motorsport Toto Wolff, who does not want to see a car failure determine who wins the 2014 drivers’ crown.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/9/16394.html

Well if Nico wins by less than 50 points it would be down to Lewis have more than his share of bad luck, as I see it Lewis is marginally faster, has better over tacking skills, and is smarter than Nico, not to say it always consistently like that as both drivers have tremendous skills and the slightest ailment or emotional upset could affect either driver to make the difference.

For lewis to start a race from the pit lane and still get on the podium is a tremendous feat of skill and shear determination, could Nico have done this???

Agree that Lewis has shaded Nico in most areas this season, and I think were there complete equality with regards reliability issues, Lewis would right now be leading by at least a race win.. but with that said, I have to admit that this season has shown to me that Nico is a better racer than I gave him credit for. He really is very good.. and not only that, he has also shown a decent bit of character with the way he has reacted to his recent troubles on the track and to the rather unsavory booing.

Unless though Lewis is hit with more reliability problems, Nico is going to need to show even more character to turn the momentum back in his favor and win the title.

The only thing I hope for is that the title is decided on merit, not by problems with the car, and not by the ridiculous unjust double points nonsense at the last race. I fear though that it might. A fear I expressed right at the beginning of the season.

[jpinx]

Anyone able to make a mathematical model where the result is not decided by the double points in the last race?

[Basil B]

Yes it would be terrible if Lewis had nearly a 50 point lead and then a DNF in the last race due to technical problems not of his making, and Nico was to grab the championship.

Well if it does happen we all know who to blame, the F1 commercial rights holder....

[mania]

Watching F1 Practice today ! Suzuka

Love this track always did.

Also time wise it is good for us here in Thailand

1st practice was 8am today next about to start at noon

So what do you folks think?

Lewis? Nico? Neither?

Of course P1 does not mean much but they were 1 & 2

With Nico edging out Lewis by a fraction 0.151

Edited October 3, 2014 by mania