Wiring money into thailand vs ATM withdrawals

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Scenario 2: withdraw from ATM like citibank silom that dont charge atm fees (using a visa usa bank debit card). And do several withdrawals that is equivalent to 2,000 usa dollars.

To the OP, your info is out of date. Citibank used to have fee-free ATM withdrawals in Thailand for U.S. debit cards, but no longer does. Citibank charges 150 baht per withdrawal now for either VISA or MC logo cards from the U.S., at least. I re-confirmed that today when trying a Citibank ATM in BKK with both U.S. VISA and MC logo debit cards.

Citibank made that change many months ago. AEON just began charging their 150 baht fee on foreign cards in the past few days.

But any way you cut it, any ATM approach is not going to work for a Thailand property purchase because, as was pointed out above, if you ever hope to retrieve your funds out of Thailand in the future, you'll need a legal document from a Thai bank certifying the incoming transfer of funds.

Also, there are no longer any Thai bank no-fee ATM options for foreign card withdrawals in Thailand, now that AEON has bit the dust.

Of course I cant withdraw from atm here this amount, but at least i can go into the bank and withdraw physically from the bank at the atm visa exchange rates.

While the OP can do something called counter withdrawals that involves going to a Thai bank counter with his passport and using his debit card to withdraw funds from the attached U.S. checking account, most U.S. banks have daily/24 hour withdrawal limits on how much can be withdrawn in that manner, usually between $300 and $1,000 U.S.

Also, Thai banks don't set their own international exchange rates for ATM withdrawals. When doing a cash withdrawal from a Thai bank ATM with a foreign debit card, the exchange rates are set by the card networks, being VISA or MC. So, the same U.S. bank card used at the same time will produce the same exchange rate, regardless of which Thai bank ATM you use.

Thai banks do, however, set their own individual exchange rates for incoming international wire and ACH transfers.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hiddencamper]

All great info. Safe to say going atm w my Citibank card from my usa to a Citibank atm here, still the rate is visa rate and is always worst than a swift wire using the TT rate. But I did save on 150 baht transfer.

Now question is the banks I just need monitor the best exchange TT rates and go with that bank since I have accounts at multiple banks.

After that will purchase the home with help of my Thai friend here. I have a foreign company I wonder if buying with that entity helps or any benefits to that if I bring in a Thai citizen as a director and give him shares?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[hiddencamper]

I got screwed!!!!! Pulled at 15,000 at Citibank and in my online bank wothdrew 466.25 dollars. That's a rate of 31.00!!!! Today spot price is 32.59 and vasu is exchanging at 32.53 by 32.68.

Y y

Omg never use atm withdrawals with your USA debit card using visa/mc. The exchange rate is retardedly against you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[4evermaat]

To add to the counter withdraw method or atm method....you can request that the limit be increased temporarily or permanently. Depends on the bank policy and your relationship to the bank. The max limits should be able to go up to 5-10k per transaction. Not sure about daily limit max.

"We pick our teachers, and we get what we want..." -sent from Note 2 TV app.

[smedly]

Scenario 2: withdraw from ATM like citibank silom that dont charge atm fees (using a visa usa bank debit card). And do several withdrawals that is equivalent to 2,000 usa dollars.

To the OP, your info is out of date. Citibank used to have fee-free ATM withdrawals in Thailand for U.S. debit cards, but no longer does. Citibank charges 150 baht per withdrawal now for either VISA or MC logo cards from the U.S., at least. I re-confirmed that today when trying a Citibank ATM in BKK with both U.S. VISA and MC logo debit cards.

Citibank made that change many months ago. AEON just began charging their 150 baht fee on foreign cards in the past few days.

But any way you cut it, any ATM approach is not going to work for a Thailand property purchase because, as was pointed out above, if you ever hope to retrieve your funds out of Thailand in the future, you'll need a legal document from a Thai bank certifying the incoming transfer of funds.

Also, there are no longer any Thai bank no-fee ATM options for foreign card withdrawals in Thailand, now that AEON has bit the dust.

Of course I cant withdraw from atm here this amount, but at least i can go into the bank and withdraw physically from the bank at the atm visa exchange rates.

While the OP can do something called counter withdrawals that involves going to a Thai bank counter with his passport and using his debit card to withdraw funds from the attached U.S. checking account, most U.S. banks have daily/24 hour withdrawal limits on how much can be withdrawn in that manner, usually between $300 and $1,000 U.S.

Also, Thai banks don't set their own international exchange rates for ATM withdrawals. When doing a cash withdrawal from a Thai bank ATM with a foreign debit card, the exchange rates are set by the card networks, being VISA or MC. So, the same U.S. bank card used at the same time will produce the same exchange rate, regardless of which Thai bank ATM you use.

Thai banks do, however, set their own individual exchange rates for incoming international wire and ACH transfers.

and generally which is better - VISA MC or the Thai banks own FX rate

any examples say Kbank and VISA ATM including the 150charge

considering it costs 25GBP for a swift transfer from my bank and that equals 8x3gbp atm withdrawals plus FX charge at 2% plus a 1gbp fee - it's actually not easy to work out the best option for just having general spending money here, the key factor is the difference in the Visa MC exchange rate versus the Thai bank exchange rate, I would do as suggested and make a Visa Debit withdrawal if the bank counter if exchange was at least as good as Visa MC

either way all these banks are taking the piss - I remember a time when people got paid in cash and banks actually competed for your business, getting paid by check or direct into a bank changed all that - from that time it all went in favour of the banks with no other choice for us

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I got screwed!!!!! Pulled at 15,000 at Citibank and in my online bank wothdrew 466.25 dollars. That's a rate of 31.00!!!! Today spot price is 32.59 and vasu is exchanging at 32.53 by 32.68.

Y y

Omg never use atm withdrawals with your USA debit card using visa/mc. The exchange rate is retardedly against you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

As I mentioned above, Citibank in Thailand charges foreign cards at least from the U.S. the 150 baht per withdrawal fee.

I don't know if they apply that or not to Citibank cards from the U.S., now that you mention using a Citibank U.S. card.

But, AFAIK, Citibank cards from the U.S. do assess a 3% or so foreign currency fee on all ATM transactions done abroad, including those done at Citibank ATMs outside the U.S.

So, one way or the other, Citibank is going to take their pound of your flesh.

But, your advice above is simply wrong. The correct advice should be, if you want to make an ATM withdrawal in Thailand using a foreign card, don't use one that charges you a 2 / 3 / 4% foreign currency fee. There are plenty of no foreign currency fee cards out there from U.S. financial institutions, for anyone who goes looking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To add to the counter withdraw method or atm method....you can request that the limit be increased temporarily or permanently. Depends on the bank policy and your relationship to the bank. The max limits should be able to go up to 5-10k per transaction. Not sure about daily limit max.

"We pick our teachers, and we get what we want..." -sent from Note 2 TV app.

Yep...on the U.S., that's true.

Some banks and credit unions will allow their cardholders to request one-time or ongoing increases on their debit card withdrawal limits. Unfortunately, some/many won't.

I've got a couple U.S. debit cards with automatic $400 per day ATM withdrawal limits on them. And then I opened those two accounts, I made a particular point of asking those banks if I could have those amounts increased. And the answer I got back was NO, the limits are fixed and they won't change them.

But, other banks like Schwab seem to have a common daily ATM withdrawal limit of $1,000 on their U.S. domestic High Yield Checking accounts, and some other banks also have standard $1000 limits on daily ATM withdrawals. So as long as you've got some of those in your pocket, you don't need to worry as much about the ones with $400 limits.

[lucifer666]

I do mine via Paypal, costs 50p per £100 to transfer. Takes 5 working days though

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

and generally which is better - VISA MC or the Thai banks own FX rate

any examples say Kbank and VISA ATM including the 150charge

considering it costs 25GBP for a swift transfer from my bank and that equals 8x3gbp atm withdrawals plus FX charge at 2% plus a 1gbp fee - it's actually not easy to work out the best option for just having general spending money here, the key factor is the difference in the Visa MC exchange rate versus the Thai bank exchange rate, I would do as suggested and make a Visa Debit withdrawal if the bank counter if exchange was at least as good as Visa MC

It's a bit hard to say for me, right now, Smedly, because the banking landscape has suddenly changed here with the loss of AEON as a no 150-baht fee ATM withdrawal option. Unfortunately, all my calculations in the past didn't worry about the 150 baht ATM fee issue, because I was never paying that fee. Now that all changes.

As for exchange rates, they do tend to bounce around a bit, but I believe there are some common trends. At least for U.S. cardholders, VISA cards almost always have a better VISA exchange rate for ATM transactions that MC logo cards do. And those rates always will apply, regardless of what Thai bank ATM is being used, because it's the card networks' rates that are being used, not the local banks' rates.

Comparing the VISA/MC ATM rates with the Thai banks' buying TT rates is more difficult because, of course, all the different banks set their own buying TT rates individually, and can change those rates up to several times per day. My sense is that U.S. VISA ATM rates often are a little better than or close to the typical Thai bank buying TT rates, and MC ATM rates might be close or a little less than buying TT, depending on the bank.

I should add, those comparisons I mention above deal strictly with exchange rates, and assume one's home country bank is NOT charging any foreign currency fee, nor do they take into account any inclusion of 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees on the Thai end.

But, for a UK cardholder, the ATM exchange rates relationship between VISA and MC exchange rates may be different. Member Jim Gant has, I believe, done some comparisons on this in the past, and I seem to remember him reporting that, contrary to the U.S. experience, the VISA and MC network rates in the UK or Europe were a lot closer together. I'm just doing that from memory...

Now, in this new landscape, there are more factors to consider overall:

--is your home country bank charging a percentage foreign currency fee on international ATM withdrawals, and if so, how much.

--does your home country bank reimburse the ATM fees charged by other banks, such as the Thai banks' 150 baht fee.

--what's the per withdrawal limit of the particular Thai bank ATM you're planning to use -- 20,000, 30,000 or more? Can you get what you need in one pull.

vs...

--How much are you looking to transfer to Thailand, and how much does your home bank charge for that kind of intl wire transfers.

--Can you use the Bangkok Bank intl transfer facility from the U.S. or UK that typically is going to be less costly than wire transfers.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I do mine via Paypal, costs 50p per £100 to transfer. Takes 5 working days though

I've never seen a good deal on sending money to Thailand via Paypal...

Part of that may involve the fact that Paypal (at least the U.S. version) adds (or perhaps deducts in the right word) a 2.5% service fee based on the amount sent on all its foreign currency exchange transactions. As I recall, they do that through using a 2.5% lower exchange rate instead of by charging a separate 2.5% "fee".

So I person might think they were getting a good deal, unless they actually looked at the exchange rate Paypay was using and checked how it compared with the current prevailing exchange rates in the banking marketplace.

Here’s how we set our exchange rate:

• We receive a wholesale rate quote from our bank twice a day and add 2.5% to determine the retail foreign exchange rate to apply to transactions that involve a currency conversion.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/article/?solutionId=12900

By comparison, paying the 150 baht Thai bank withdrawal fee on a 10,000 baht ATM withdrawal works out to be a 1.5% charge -- assuming your home bank isn't also adding in fees of their own for a foreign transaction.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[glegolo]

I must say something in this regard. These people that always says that one should send i.e. dollars or other foreign currecny to Thailand.. ARE YOU REALLY SURE???

For me, and I have checked this up very carefully, From Sweden we always transfer baht which will be exchanged in Thailand by Bangkok Bank!!!

ALL TRANSFERS FROM SWEDEN goes to Bangkok Bank who thereafter transfer our money on to our own bank i.e.x Khrung Thai VBank or Kasikorn or whatever...

Bangkok Bank charges round 200 baht for every damn transaction and my own bank charges between 150 and 250 baht....But note, ALL transaction ends first up att Bangkok Bank.. all of them...

This is the way it is done..... So maybe check it up before you listen to either one of us... Talk to your american bank, ask them what rate of exchange

they are using that day, and see on the internet what rate they have here in Thailand.... I usually make quite a few money when transferring my swedish money to Thailand on monthly basis.

Glegolo

[smedly]

you know what guys, I'll be bringing cash with me as I'm fed up with these robbing barstewards taking chunks of my money for their pleasure, I go home every 6 months and will bring enough with me to do and exchange at a proper rate locally without all this nonsense - it's about time we all went back to cash and stiff these MF'Kr's

PS and for those that replied to my question - many thanks for taking the time

regards

Edited February 13, 2014 by smedly

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

you know what guys, I'll be bringing cash with me as I'm fed up with these robbing barstewards taking chunks of my money for their pleasure, I go home every 6 months and will bring enough with me to do and exchange at a proper rate locally without all this nonsense - it's about time we all went back to cash and stiff these MF'Kr's

PS and for those that replied to my question - many thanks for taking the time

For me personally, I'd always feel pretty nervous carrying a LARGE amount of cash on international travel...

So, for someone in the US or UK, sending a large single amount of money via BKK Bank's special transfer method from those countries ends up being a very good deal, because you're avoiding all the Thai ATM fees, paying a very low transfer fee, and only a 0.25% commission on the receiving end, capped at 500 baht regardless of your sending amount.

Not as good a deal as you'd get simply exchanging cash at places like VASU or SuperRich. But a whole lot safer... I do understand the appeal of going the all cash route.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I do mine via Paypal, costs 50p per £100 to transfer. Takes 5 working days though

I've never seen a good deal on sending money to Thailand via Paypal...

Part of that may involve the fact that Paypal (at least the U.S. version) adds (or perhaps deducts in the right word) a 2.5% service fee based on the amount sent on all its foreign currency exchange transactions. As I recall, they do that through using a 2.5% lower exchange rate instead of by charging a separate 2.5% "fee".

So I person might think they were getting a good deal, unless they actually looked at the exchange rate Paypay was using and checked how it compared with the current prevailing exchange rates in the banking marketplace.

Here’s how we set our exchange rate:

• We receive a wholesale rate quote from our bank twice a day and add 2.5% to determine the retail foreign exchange rate to apply to transactions that involve a currency conversion.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/article/?solutionId=12900

By comparison, paying the 150 baht Thai bank withdrawal fee on a 10,000 baht ATM withdrawal works out to be a 1.5% charge -- assuming your home bank isn't also adding in fees of their own for a foreign transaction.

Just to see if anything had changed with Paypal's sending money to Thailand practices, I ran an example this morning of sending 10,000 baht from the U.S. to Thailand. And, it's exactly as I explained above.

Paypal charges a very small fee, like .10%, if you're sending the money using a debit or credit card. They don't charge that fee if you're sending from a PayPal balance or a linked bank account. In my 10,000 baht example, that worked out to about 300 baht or $10 U.S.

But, where the sender gets reamed is via the exchange rate. Indeed, when I checked the numbers, PayPal's exchange rate for starting with U.S. $ and sending baht to Thailand was exactly 2.5% lower than the standard VISA card network rate for Feb. 13.

It broke down like this for Feb. 13 rates:

VISA card network: 32.49

MC card network: 32.32

PayPal network: 31.68

And, if you add a 2.5% amount back into the PayPal rate, it equals the VISA rate exactly. So, PayPal, as they state on their website, is indeed taking a 2.5% cut out of the VISA card network rate.

That means, the recipient is getting, in Thai baht, 2.5% less in funds than if the same transaction were performed using the VISA card network rate.

And, Paypal shows the sender the small upfront fee when you go to send online. But they don't show you the 2.5% haircut you're taking on the exchange rate.

Paypal transaction sending U.S. to 10,000 Thai baht.

Cost $315.66 plus potential fee

Paypal Rate for U.S. to Thai baht (excluding fee)

VISA rate for Thai baht

MasterCard rate for Thai baht

So effectively, Paypal is charging their own kind of foreign currency fee, a 2.5+% FCF.

By comparsion, if you withdrew those same 10,000 baht from a Thai ATM with a no-fee U.S. VISA debit card, you'd get the full VISA network rate and only pay the Thai bank 150 baht withdrawal fee, which would represent a 1.5% fee on a 10,000 baht withdrawal.

If you upped the ATM withdrawal to 20,000 baht, the 150 baht Thai bank withdrawal fee would fall to a 0.75% fee rate. But the same transaction via PayPal would still incur a 2.5% deduction using their lower exchange rate.

Edited February 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Yeap, I see posts all the time about sending money to Thailand using PayPal and how low the fees are, but the folks making these posts apparently don't understand how the low PayPal exchange rate is effectively a hefty hidden fee of at least several percent.