Anti-graft agency gets more evidence on rice corruption

[webfact]

Anti-graft agency gets more evidence on rice corruption
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Feb 13 – Farmer leaders have supplied information and evidence to the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), charging the government with cheating in the rice pledging scheme.

Ravee Rungruang, acting president of the Thai Farmers Network, and six farmer representatives handed over the documents to Vittaya Arkompituak, NACC deputy secretary general, yesterday.

They charged the government with corruption and failing to pay them for the rice they have delivered under the rice subsidy programme.

NACC is currently investigating the rice corruption case in which caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, in her capacity as chairperson of the National Rice Policy Committee, was implicated.

The farmer leaders told reporters that the evidence submitted to NACC included cheating at five rice mills, adding that they wanted to conduct thorough checks but could not enter the rice mills, or they could be charged with intrusion.

They said they were discussing with the Lawyers Association of Thailand on the possibility of checking rice stocks in the state’s warehouses.

In the northern province of Uttaradit, governor Chat Kittinoppadol and representatives of the Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives met with more than 500 disgruntled farmers who closed Highway 11 at Dong Chang Dee intersection which links Uttaradit and Phitsanulok provinces.

The farmers protested to demand overdue payments for their rice and said over 30,000 farmers have been waiting for the payments totaling Bt3.6 billion.

The governor promised to take action as soon as possible while farmers threatened to seal off Wang Si Sueb intersection of Highway 11 if they did not receive a satisfactory response within seven days. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-02-13

[EricBerg]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

[spirit47]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

[robblok]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

The problem is that many of the reds have the attitude that corruption should not be combated if its their party doing it. In fact i feel one should always combat corruption. They feel its politicized while breaking the law should be punished by not doing anything your supporting it.

Its always the ruling party that is corrupt (as they got the most chance for it) so now its the reds but I and I am pro democrat would call as hard for the heads of corrupt democrats. I feel the country cant move on without attacking corruption.

The reason we got those big fights is that there is so much money to be made in politics.

[uty6543]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

Regrettably no one of any importance will spend any time in prison. Yingluck and co if convicted will leave the country and live a life of luxury. The new government will not do anything to bring them back to serve their sentences. I believe things are going to change in Thailand in the near future but not very much. Corruption has been a way of life here for a long time and will remain for the foreseeable future.

[JRSoul]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

No it's not true. If you agree to sell something and allow the purchaser possession, you do not have the right to reclaim it unless a hire-purchase type contract was used (oz law, AFAIK). You only have the right to sue for the debt.

[GentlemanJim]

Well nobody will be able to claim that the NACC didn't give enough warning to get out of the country in good enough time!

[sam sen]

it shouldnt be too hard to find evidence. just follow the money trail, it has to have gone somewhere.

whether there is the determination and robustness within the police and judiciary to bring those allegedly involved to trail and convict them is another matter

[Luk Mhee]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

Regrettably no one of any importance will spend any time in prison. Yingluck and co if convicted will leave the country and live a life of luxury. The new government will not do anything to bring them back to serve their sentences. I believe things are going to change in Thailand in the near future but not very much. Corruption has been a way of life here for a long time and will remain for the foreseeable future.

If (Big If) the new government does not follow up with any extradition applications, does this mean that the 7 farmers who committed suicide and left their families destitute because of the existing government rice policies have no value?

[mightyatom]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

Regrettably no one of any importance will spend any time in prison. Yingluck and co if convicted will leave the country and live a life of luxury. The new government will not do anything to bring them back to serve their sentences. I believe things are going to change in Thailand in the near future but not very much. Corruption has been a way of life here for a long time and will remain for the foreseeable future.

That may be true, but look at Thaksin, he is pining for home. He has all that money, but it is not worth much if you are not happy. Once you get homesick, it is a permanent feature until you can get back.... If you can't get back, then no amount of money will make you happy.

A prison sentence eventually comes to an end. Self exile won't until you surrender to your prison sentence. Exile can be worse than prison if you are unhappy and yearn for something money can't buy.

On a different note.

I am stoked to see that the farmers are now providing evidence to help bring down the government.... Their own voters.... lol

I am pumped.

[EricBerg]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

Regrettably no one of any importance will spend any time in prison. Yingluck and co if convicted will leave the country and live a life of luxury. The new government will not do anything to bring them back to serve their sentences. I believe things are going to change in Thailand in the near future but not very much. Corruption has been a way of life here for a long time and will remain for the foreseeable future.

There has to be a change. And that will only come gradually. The bad guy in Dubai misses Thailand much. And he is under threat of a next government that may try to bring him home.

The darling of Isan and her lot living a life of luxury elsewhere... Quite a few of them have the same urge as their great leader. They want to have power and be respected/feared by many. They can not have that status as tourists elsewhere.

Political awareness among the voters is growing. What once was a bit of a carnival to attend now is a serious game. The protests voice dissatisfaction with injustice. The air of "no way to change it, so best not fight it" is fading more and more.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

No it's not true. If you agree to sell something and allow the purchaser possession, you do not have the right to reclaim it unless a hire-purchase type contract was used (oz law, AFAIK). You only have the right to sue for the debt.

A pledge is a type of bailment under common law, it is not a contract for sale of goods. Thailand tends to follow British common law. This arrangement is more like a consignment where the pledgor has a right to reclaim possession until the promised monetary compensation has been paid. Upon return of the property, the pledgor may also seek compensation for any damages to the property while it was in the possession of the pledgee.

[tomacht8]

If the NACC would install a nationwide telephone number for everybody to see, as a reporting office for corruption, where the identities of the informants are protected, so the people with information should not be afraid, then they could clear up this mess. I hope that this time the criminals do not get away with it, and even parts of the stolen money can be recovered.

[rkidlad]

Great! I can't wait for the rich and 'important' to not be prosecuted.

[Scamper]

It is refreshing to see the farmers using the legal resources of the system to air their grievances. Getting access to the rice silos will be the next key legal hurdle, which will likely be resisted by the Yingluck administration at every turn. The rice silos could very well be analogous to the Watergate tapes. And as definitive.

[Clendenin]

Speaking of rice and corruption and such, several years ago one of the Thai commerce ministry senior people was kicked out of the government and a special inquiry was supposed to be had to assess his guilt and punishment. I think there was a time limit within which the inquiry was to be finished. His name was Jinrat (or something close to that) and the scheme as I recall was that he allegedly took student scholarship money which the govt sent to his family's private college in Ubon and then used the money in some sort of rice speculation scheme. I never did see any report of what finally happened and am wondering if anyone on TVF might have. Particularly interested to know if any of those kids at the school were unable to get their education because of it or if the scholarship money was somehow returned to the students.

[than]

Days of Yingluck administration are counted !

[inzman]

In Thailand, people of power and means do not see justice served against them. It is the culture in this country, they are above the law. You can't bring your western idea of justice here and be comfortable. All you can do is shake your head and think about how much better off the people would be if they changed the rules. But it won't happen, this country is centuries old and has been existing just fine without our western influences. Be assured one day the people will change their mindset, but it won't be in our lifetime. So enjoy your life and keep your pity for the poor souls inside, you can't and won't change a thing.

[bigbamboo]

What is it about the Shinawats and corruption...... I mean, how much money do they need?

I guess for some people enough is never enough.

[fish fingers]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

[fish fingers]

It is refreshing to see the farmers using the legal resources of the system to air their grievances. Getting access to the rice silos will be the next key legal hurdle, which will likely be resisted by the Yingluck administration at every turn. The rice silos could very well be analogous to the Watergate tapes. And as definitive.

half expect to see many of the rice silos going up in smoke, just like the oil fields of Iraq/Kuwait

Edited February 13, 2014 by fish fingers

[belg]

they might find what they want, evidence is there to get lost and some middleman can take the blame

the powers that be shall not be prosecuted

what about ferrari boy... any update on rich litle boys case?

[Barney R]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

No it's not true. If you agree to sell something and allow the purchaser possession, you do not have the right to reclaim it unless a hire-purchase type contract was used (oz law, AFAIK). You only have the right to sue for the debt.

A pledge is a type of bailment under common law, it is not a contract for sale of goods. Thailand tends to follow British common law. This arrangement is more like a consignment where the pledgor has a right to reclaim possession until the promised monetary compensation has been paid. Upon return of the property, the pledgor may also seek compensation for any damages to the property while it was in the possession of the pledgee.

You both might be right in your respective countries but you are forgetting one important fact ,this is Thailand and from what I have read and seen I am not even sure if the Thais themselves know the full extent of their law system . Nothing is consistant found guilty one day go free the next for the same crime . Seems money talks louder than the law .

[Baerboxer]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

No it's not true. If you agree to sell something and allow the purchaser possession, you do not have the right to reclaim it unless a hire-purchase type contract was used (oz law, AFAIK). You only have the right to sue for the debt.

This ain't Kansas Toto - or Oz for that matter.

Thai Law and how it treats the difference between when risk and property pass is what's relevant.

[Baerboxer]

This rice is your rice (if not payed), thats right...

No it's not true. If you agree to sell something and allow the purchaser possession, you do not have the right to reclaim it unless a hire-purchase type contract was used (oz law, AFAIK). You only have the right to sue for the debt.

A pledge is a type of bailment under common law, it is not a contract for sale of goods. Thailand tends to follow British common law. This arrangement is more like a consignment where the pledgor has a right to reclaim possession until the promised monetary compensation has been paid. Upon return of the property, the pledgor may also seek compensation for any damages to the property while it was in the possession of the pledgee.

Was this a pledge or a sales contract? Does Thai Law recognize the difference and if so what are the rules for each. This is what's pertinent, how Thai law treats this.

Thai Law is pluralistic (as is Scottish law for example). It is based on Civil Law but influenced by common law. There is no such thing as "British common law". There is the Law of England and Wales, the Law of Northern Ireland, (both common law systems) and the Law of Scotland (pluralistic). Thai law has many influences as below.

"The Thai legal system became an amalgam of German, Swiss, French, English, Japanese, Italian, and Indian laws and practices. Even today, Islamic laws and practices exist in four southern provinces. Over the years, Thai law has naturally taken on its own Thai identity." Wikipedia

[slapout]

Possesion would appear to consitute 99% of the law in Thailand, in most cases, certain peoples passport, ill gotten gains, etc have and can be the exception.The enforcement of the law, incompentent individuals interpertation and application are a few of the falures that are seemly part of what is accepted. Then throw in "money talks' as well as the old adage "Sam colt made equals out of many men" and you have a perfect place to start with the much acclaimed reforms that we heard a lot about a few weeks ago.

[rickirs]

".. evidence submitted to NACC included cheating at five rice mills, adding that they wanted to conduct thorough checks but could not enter the rice mills." So no verifiable evidence? But in Thailand court however, there doesn't seem to be any standard for evidence. So maybe an allegation of evidence is sufficient for conviction.

[rubl]

".. evidence submitted to NACC included cheating at five rice mills, adding that they wanted to conduct thorough checks but could not enter the rice mills." So no verifiable evidence? But in Thailand court however, there doesn't seem to be any standard for evidence. So maybe an allegation of evidence is sufficient for conviction.

The cheating may have been proven with the documents submitted, but could have been more damaging if more check would have been possible.

The last two sentences are either insulting to Thai courts or just a show of your ignorance.

[tingtongteesood]

That the whole thing is corrupt and that there will be plenty of proof, nobody will doubt. But how high the courts will reach and how long those found guilty will spend in prison, is the big question.

If it all blows over as before Thailand and Thai people will have much worse coming. The vultures are ready to strike anytime when they feel safe.

The problem is that many of the reds have the attitude that corruption should not be combated if its their party doing it. In fact i feel one should always combat corruption. They feel its politicized while breaking the law should be punished by not doing anything your supporting it.

Its always the ruling party that is corrupt (as they got the most chance for it) so now its the reds but I and I am pro democrat would call as hard for the heads of corrupt democrats. I feel the country cant move on without attacking corruption.

The reason we got those big fights is that there is so much money to be made in politics.

Absolutely right, I am anti Taksin / PT / UDD / red shirts because of what they have done over the years. Corruption, riots, tremendous amounts of bs propaganda, red villages, nnot to mention the recent PT scams debacles - all kinds of badness. However if it was Abisit and the Dems who did it I would be anti them to exactly the same degree. I back Dems because they are the only other party that may stand a chance at office and they are by far the lesser of 2 evils. Looking forward to someone better coming along some day.

[kimamey]

In Thailand, people of power and means do not see justice served against them. It is the culture in this country, they are above the law. You can't bring your western idea of justice here and be comfortable. All you can do is shake your head and think about how much better off the people would be if they changed the rules. But it won't happen, this country is centuries old and has been existing just fine without our western influences. Be assured one day the people will change their mindset, but it won't be in our lifetime. So enjoy your life and keep your pity for the poor souls inside, you can't and won't change a thing.

They have certainly existed without some of our influences but some they couldn't do without. Can you imagine Thailand without motor vehicles, television, Facebook, smartphones and electricity and everything it powers. Oh and let's not forget white skin.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app