Dutch bar owner killed in Udon Thani

[Chicog]

Just a guess but it was mentioned he owned 2 bars And the death by slitting his throat is sending clear message maybe he wasn't paying local mafia or something? But since this is Thailand we will never know.

It might equally send a clear message that they wanted to make sure he died.

[affen02]

RIP. Again violence shows its ugly face. Lets hope the police get this people quicly. Condolanses to the family.

[coma]

Latest reports from Thai news sources say that the deceased is 68 year old Frederick Fransilekus from The Netherlands. Owner of the MODEL S 59 pub in Udon Thani. He has been living in Thailand for 5 years and is "well know" in the girlie bar scene there. Frequently seen in the company of different female companions.

He was found by a construction worker lady working at a site across the road from the deceased's house.When she arrived for work in the morning, whilst she was parking her car, she noticed a large blood trail leading into the house from outside. She followed it and found the crime scene. She noted that he was was fully clothed and was still wearing his watch and gold ring.

Another witness, a construction worker guarding the construction site over night said he heard a loud argument in English at 4.00am. After that he heard the sound of a vehicle start up then it was turned off a short time later. He also heard the the front gate of the deceased's house opening and closing several times. He said he wasn't alarmed as he just thought the deceased had another argument with another " girlfriend" which he had witness many times before.

Edited March 2, 2014 by coma

[draftvader]

Robbery ?? The injuries inflicted on this man go far beyond the needs of a robber. It seems more a sustained ,frenzied attack.

The number and type of injuries tell a story. Certainly this person wanted to make sure this person was dead and wanted it to be graphic. Either a clear message to other "business interests" (i.e. local "protection") or this was personal. Stabbing somebody 5 times and then cutting their throat isn't something somebody does easily. Remembering also that the "standard" robbery murder round here involves a gun this feels VERY personal as it would involve touching the person as you are killing them.

You've been watching the "Criminal Minds" boxed set again, haven't you?

No, I barely watch TV. However they are the only mindsets I can think of. Cold blooded (i.e. contract) or empassioned.

[Spaniel]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

You must hang around with a wild crowd! I first came to Thailand in 1967 and since that time I have lived here about 30 years and I have only known one person that died unnaturally (he committed suicide). plus two that were killed in motorcycle accidents which for Thailand isn't unnatural.

[deecee10]

R.I.P. Fred.

It's a desperately sad situation for the man's family and friends.

Wild speculation and sweeping judgments I leave to others.

[Torrens54]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

Sorry but.... if it is "Needless to say," then WHY, say It?

Are there any fewer murders per head of population where you came from?

Not trying to be "picky" but we should be "balanced" in our commentary.

[VINCENT2012]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

I have lived in Thailand for 14 years have not seen as much as a fist fight since leaving Pattaya over a decade ago, seen more problems in the states on my visits, that to me indicates where the real safety is in rural Thailand away from the Farang ghetto cities that are very violent areas caused by locals, many by drunk Farangs.

May you rest in Peace!

Cheers

i agree with that too....i think thailand is in general safer than europe or america.......only as usual if you want to stay cool,then stay away from funny places where you can get in real trouble..like special privat sex place, money games and all the mafia places, even bars only for thais where there is also woman and lots of alcool.

Having a bar as a farang is also a problem...most thais drink to coma and when they are drunk they are ....perhaps i can not say it in this forum ....well all together they loose then their shireness and become lions and things like with the dutch can happened.

Perhaps he told some felows to go, leave the bar in a bad way and they went to his place to have revenge...anything is posible.

anyway he won't have to show 400 000 baths a year to immigration anymore.

good luck in heaven

[H1w4yR1da]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

Most retirees need not worry as they most likely will not be operating a beer bar, nor making income from bar fines.

I suggest you do some research on the Models 59 Bar and find out exactly the type of bar it was and its recent history. You can do your own search and read the delightful stories.

And yes indeed it is reported that the owner's "right hand man" has been arrested and accused of the murder.

What a disgraceful post! I knew it'd just be a matter of time before the Thaier-than-Thai apologists stunk up the thread by somehow blaming the victim. After all, they can't have such accusations of murder pointed at their beloved Thais without some kind of response to deflect the blame.

You see the same posters pop up every time an expat or tourist is slaughtered.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

[udonsmiles]

Rest in peace Fred.

[smotherb]

Very sad news. Hopefully the murderers will be quickly apprehended.

As Mr Boppe has mentioned, the name doesn't seem Dutch, unless it is a spelling mistake.

RIP

I have noted many TV posters who seem to think only traditional national names are sufficient for the citizens of any nation. Have you never heard of immigrants? Have you ever heard of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? It's the family name of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's husband and the family name of all the British royals since. Does Saxe-Coburg-Gotha sound English to you?

[harryfrompattaya]

Very sad news. Hopefully the murderers will be quickly apprehended.

As Mr Boppe has mentioned, the name doesn't seem Dutch, unless it is a spelling mistake.

RIP

I have noted many TV posters who seem to think only traditional national names are sufficient for the citizens of any nation. Have you never heard of immigrants? Have you ever heard of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? It's the family name of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's husband and the family name of all the British royals since. Does Saxe-Coburg-Gotha sound English to you?

The only Prince Albert I know is Pipe Tobacco England is finished as a world power It is for poor people from the former colonies east Europe. Stop acting like it is something great

[alex8912]

Extraordinarily sad. However, sorry to speculate, that is quite a violent death for a robbery! I'm sure money was taken but I feel that calling this a robbery is understating it a bit. To me it seems like the cash was a "bonus".

Do you know something concrete or is this just speculation for the sake of it ? Do tell if you know. Why is this kind of post 'popular' ? I cannot imagine anything more 'normal' than a straightforward robbery of a person known to carry large amounts of cash.

I'm glad you are not a detective if I was killed.

[bkksteviejai]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

How long have you lived in Thailand MaiChai?.

RIP to this poor guy.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[harryfrompattaya]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

How long have you lived in Thailand MaiChai?.

RIP to this poor guy.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thailand is very safe as long as you keep a low profile no work no business no gold and show off. Just keep low key and remember never show that you are upset so other will not move before you

[bkksteviejai]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

How long have you lived in Thailand MaiChai?.

RIP to this poor guy.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thailand is very safe as long as you keep a low profile no work no business no gold and show off. Just keep low key and remember never show that you are upset so other will not move before you

.....and avoid angry farang syndrome.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mudcrab]

Latest reports from Thai news sources say that the deceased is 68 year old Frederick Fransilekus from The Netherlands. Owner of the MODEL S 59 pub in Udon Thani. He has been living in Thailand for 5 years and is "well know" in the girlie bar scene there. Frequently seen in the company of different female companions.

He was found by a construction worker lady working at a site across the road from the deceased's house.When she arrived for work in the morning, whilst she was parking her car, she noticed a large blood trail leading into the house from outside. She followed it and found the crime scene. She noted that he was was fully clothed and was still wearing his watch and gold ring.

Another witness, a construction worker guarding the construction site over night said he heard a loud argument in English at 4.00am. After that he heard the sound of a vehicle start up then it was turned off a short time later. He also heard the the front gate of the deceased's house opening and closing several times. He said he wasn't alarmed as he just thought the deceased had another argument with another " girlfriend" which he had witness many times before.

This puts a different spin on the situation. Loud argument, "girlfriend"....slit throat....possibly the wrong ladyboy that night? Either way RIP.

[bkksteviejai]

Hopefully this is a warning to those thinking of retiring in Thailand. Its a violent place and not as safe as you may think. Needless to say i have personally known at least 10 people who have died unnaturally in this country.

Most retirees need not worry as they most likely will not be operating a beer bar, nor making income from bar fines.

I suggest you do some research on the Models 59 Bar and find out exactly the type of bar it was and its recent history. You can do your own search and read the delightful stories.

And yes indeed it is reported that the owner's "right hand man" has been arrested and accused of the murder.

What a disgraceful post! I knew it'd just be a matter of time before the Thaier-than-Thai apologists stunk up the thread by somehow blaming the victim. After all, they can't have such accusations of murder pointed at their beloved Thais without some kind of response to deflect the blame.

You see the same posters pop up every time an expat or tourist is slaughtered.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Not sure he was being an "apologist" rather pointing out that some businesses may carry some inherent risk.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

Amazing how such a seemingly benign race of people can metamorph to murderers when there's money involved. Stories like this come to mind when I meet farang tourists harping on about what friendly people the Thais are. And so they are... The nicest people money can buy.

Thais are no different than anyone else. Some are good. Some are bad. I have had a few occasions where Thais could have easly cheated me out of large amounts of money, but were too honest to do so.

[speedtripler]

Amazing how such a seemingly benign race of people can metamorph to murderers when there's money involved. Stories like this come to mind when I meet farang tourists harping on about what friendly people the Thais are. And so they are... The nicest people money can buy.

Thais are no different than anyone else. Some are good. Some are bad. I have had a few occasions where Thais could have easly cheated me out of large amounts of money, but were too honest to do so.

i sent a young thai girl to the bank with with a large amount of money to do a transfer and i stayed looking for somewhere to park the car

she comes back and said western union had a promotion that i didnt know about on so they didnt take the usual 15% and handed me back

almost 10,000 baht

[peecee]

An inconsequential comment to this travesty. His name doesn't appear to be Dutch....Looks more English to me, but never mind...Hope they catch the perps.

A shot-across-the-bow to us inveterate optimists, who think they live in a similarly safe and policed place to what they are accustomed to.

It is Thai wifey who keeps up the 'alert level' for me....Constantly telling me not to be so trusting of Thai people, which route to take home late at night, never stopping for people seeking a ride, even if they are Monks, etc,. etc.

I know this is overgeneralizing and not fair to the Thai people as a whole, who treat me with the utmost respect to which I reciprocate in kind.

If not for warnings from her, I would automatically interact with inquiring Thai's at my front gate, perhaps the same way this person did..........Like the saying goes, "But for the grace of God, there go I".

His name doesn't appear to be Dutch....Looks more English to me,

Frederik Franciscus Lelie. about as English as Robin van Persie.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelie_(geslacht)

van Persie's English?

[draftvader]

Extraordinarily sad. However, sorry to speculate, that is quite a violent death for a robbery! I'm sure money was taken but I feel that calling this a robbery is understating it a bit. To me it seems like the cash was a "bonus".

Do you know something concrete or is this just speculation for the sake of it ? Do tell if you know. Why is this kind of post 'popular' ? I cannot imagine anything more 'normal' than a straightforward robbery of a person known to carry large amounts of cash.

Please re-read my post. Word number 6 mostly.

[stephenterry]

Thanks for the news update. With my Inspector Clouseau hat on, I can deduce robbery was not the prime motivation for this killing (watch and ring not taken). Any loud shouting arguments in the early hours (possibly alcohol induced) with a Thai male/female could result in an attack, whoever is doing the arguing, because of the low anger threshold that seems to be prevalent among individuals working in the 'entertainment' business.

Clearly, this Dutch guy lived and worked in this environment, and maybe he just pissed-off the wrong person at the wrong time, which generated a 'revenge' attack. Nevertheless, all of them are victims of this immature society, where such behaviour is accepted as a way of life. It would take decades of 'pro-active' education in the schools to help young people to outgrow the 'saving face' environment that besets all of us here.

Sorry, I don't mean to be patronising or demeaning, just accepting the reality of living in Thailand.

[katana]

The latest report in today's Thairath says the 27 year old Thai bar manager of the Model 59 bar, Mr Nataphong Bunyarit, has been arrested and confessed to the murder. Apparently he had previous form, having killed a local tax inspector and stolen his car 10 years ago when he was a juvenile. Bunyarit stole 21,000 Baht from the 60 year-old Dutch victim Fred Reily, which he'd hidden in his sock, claiming he needed it to pay off gambling debts. Yesterday's Khaosod also reported his previous criminal history actually includes not one but two murders.
Police say his accomplice is 'still on the run' which, having followed similar stories like this where the trail goes cold, can sometimes be taken at face value and at other times leaves you wondering if he has paid his way out of it.

Edited March 3, 2014 by angiud

[shrimpythailand]

you can get killed here for 50,500,5000,50,000, or 500,000 or 5 million bt... in my moobahn a kid was killed 2 years ago for 1000 bt - noodle vender 15 yr old... the soi 50 guy in a taxi for 52bt... Gawd...

take your pick and be careful who you show money to.. been here 13 years and no problem this way but sad to hear some older falung gets killed over the nights bar cash...

say no mo

amen

[Artisi]

The latest report in today's Thairath says the 27 year old Thai bar manager of the Model 59 bar, Mr Natawud Bunyarit, has been arrested and confessed to the murder. Apparently he had previous form, having killed a local tax inspector and stolen his car 10 years ago when he was a juvenile. Bunyarit stole 21,000 Baht from the victim which he'd hidden in his sock, claiming he needed it to pay off gambling debts. Yesterday's Khaosod also reported his previous criminal history actually includes not one but two murders.

Police say his accomplice is 'still on the run' which, having followed similar stories like this where the trail goes cold, can sometimes be taken at face value and at other times leaves you wondering if he has paid his way out of it.

Two murders, that's seems fairly normal, no different to the copper who killed the Canadian guy in Pai and was allowed out so he could then beat his girl-friend to death with a lump of timber. Par for the course.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Artisi

[stephenterry]

Seems like money was a motivator - to repay gambling debts - but I would bet a pound to a penny that the bar owner refused to lend his manager the necessary...

[MaiChai]

I knew one young Thai guy who got shot at a concert. No follow up by police. I knew a Thai lady of the night who got bashed on the head by a foreigner she was sleeping with. Foreigner went back home and that was the end of it. The problem in Thailand is lack of following up on crimes and paying off family. You can kill someone, and as long as you agree financial compensation with the family, you can get off scot free. Police will not follow up on crimes with unimportant people. Open up a Thai newspaper any day of the week and you will see the horrifying things that go on every day. Its almost normal in Thailand. I am just saying its easy to become a statistic here and you are much safer living in your home country. It your choice. Nothing to debate here; just fact.

[ginjag]

An inconsequential comment to this travesty. His name doesn't appear to be Dutch....Looks more English to me, but never mind...Hope they catch the perps.

A shot-across-the-bow to us inveterate optimists, who think they live in a similarly safe and policed place to what they are accustomed to.

It is Thai wifey who keeps up the 'alert level' for me....Constantly telling me not to be so trusting of Thai people, which route to take home late at night, never stopping for people seeking a ride, even if they are Monks, etc,. etc.

I know this is overgeneralizing and not fair to the Thai people as a whole, who treat me with the utmost respect to which I reciprocate in kind.

If not for warnings from her, I would automatically interact with inquiring Thai's at my front gate, perhaps the same way this person did..........Like the saying goes, "But for the grace of God, there go I".

His name doesn't appear to be Dutch....Looks more English to me,

Frederik Franciscus Lelie. about as English as Robin van Persie.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelie_(geslacht)

van Persie's English?

Ratcatcher didn't say that.

[metisdead]

Off topic and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.