Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[radjag]

Interesting to note that the 2 persons travelling on stolen passports had onward tickets from Beijing, hence they did not need to apply for China visas.

I guess that PRC Embassies do check visa applicant passports against Interpol lists.

Legitimate travelers are very unlikely to return to Europe via Beijing - it is more expensive and much longer time/distance.

Very suspicious - I'm sure that the various security agencies are now crawling all over this aspect - Malaysia will be very embarrassed if terrorists got through their controls in KL.

Very sad situation.

[Mosha]

<snip>

It is just as unlikely and improbable that a bird struck the windshield of the flight deck causing it to shatter and the two pilots to be sucked out of the airplane.

<snip>

Hahaha...at any rate, sudden decompression of an aircraft does NOT automatically cause all objects (and people) in the plane to be instantly "sucked out"...that's something invented by Hollywood, kids.

There are different types of decompression. The worst is called "explosive decompression." Whether caused by explosives or catastrophic airframe failure, the decompression is sudden, and fatal to all on board in just moments. The air is sucked out of their lungs, many will be hit by debris, the air temperature at 500 MPH at 35,000 feet will quickly freeze them.

It's very possible that many will be ejected from the airplane, but they won't know it.

As for bird strikes, it would take several large birds hitting both engines to shut them down. Even then the airplane would continue to function with everything but power. It would turn into a very heavy glider, as proven by captain "Sully" Sullenberger, ditching into the Hudson river where no one was injured. Sullenberger maintained constant radio contact with control people the whole time.

I would say asteroid strike more probable than bird strike based on what we think are facts . . .

Oddly enough, the Earth had 2 near misses on consecutive days last week

[chooka]

Vietnamese searchers have spotted possible aircraft debris after combing the sea

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/10/00/05/malaysia-says-plane-may-have-turned-back

Nooooo, wasn't that reported 15 pages ago and declined 3 pages later and a few more times thereafter ?

Did you bother to read other posts or were you just interested in increasing your post count ?

Well done !

Actually it is being reported on the Australian news right in front of me at the moment that debri has been located near the oil slick.

[Naam]

Visa Free Transit

1. No visa is required for foreigners who hold tickets to the final destination and have booked seats on international airlines, ships, trains transiting directly through China, and will stay for less than 24 hours and do not leave the specified transit area.

2. Passport holders of following 51 countries and regions can be granted a visa-free stay of up to 72 hours while in transit via Beijing Capital Airport (PEK), Shanghai Pudong International Airport (PVG) & Hongqiao International Airport (SHA), Guangzhou Baiyun Airport (CAN), Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport (CTU), Shenyang Taoxian International Airport (SHE) and Dalian International Airport (DLC):

Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Montenegro, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States. Read 72-hour Visa-free Transit in detail.

http://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/transit.htm

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[MrWorldwide]

Very suspicious - I'm sure that the various security agencies are now crawling all over this aspect - Malaysia will be very embarrassed if terrorists got through their controls in KL.

I think it goes beyond embarrassment for the Malaysian authorities.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LI11Ae01.html

[MrWorldwide]

@krisb - lighten up. I was responding to Crib's assertion that some of the claims here were straight out of Hollywood with an image of outback Australia that is similarly fanciful. The idea that the pilot could somehow have landed in Oz undetected is right up there with anything I've seen on the Bermuda Triangle, but the person who typed it obviously didn't think so. TV's lunatic fringe.

If you believe I take any joy in the fate of the passengers and crew on this flight, think again - 6 weeks from now, I get on an overnight flight to KL and have a connecting flight to Penang : I suspect that I have a much more immediate stake in KLIA authorities improving their security procedures than anyone else in this thread - happy to hear otherwise.

It's called black humor, and I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've stepped over the mark.

[iancnx]

@krisb - lighten up. I was responding to Crib's assertion that some of the claims here were straight out of Hollywood with an image of outback Australia that is similarly fanciful. The idea that the pilot could somehow have landed in Oz undetected is right up there with anything I've seen on the Bermuda Triangle, but the person who typed it obviously didn't think so. TV's lunatic fringe.

If you believe I take any joy in the fate of the passengers and crew on this flight, think again - 6 weeks from now, I get on an overnight flight to KL and have a connecting flight to Penang : I suspect that I have a much more immediate stake in KLIA authorities improving their security procedures than anyone else in this thread - happy to hear otherwise.

It's called black humor, and I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've stepped over the mark.

Worldwide you managed to do it again, stuck your big size 12 right in it. Their is NO room for humour in any variety on this thread. Krisb +1. Incoming.

[MaxYakov]

Interpol reveals their stolen passport database wasn't checked.

How often does this happen? Should be cross referenced every flight automatically imo, quite shocking and pathetic.

What's the point of even having an interpol database if we don't use them?

Australia has started helping with the search.

Debris found was a door, Malaysia says it's not from the flight.

Well how does a plane this big just dissapear? Usually when a plane this size hit's the water, debris trail stretches for miles does it not?

It took two years to locate that Air France flight that crashed in 2009 I believe.

Yes, it took a while to locate bulk of it and the FDR/CVR, but several pieces of floating wreckage and human remains were soon found. From those they were able to determine that it hit the water intact and at roughly what downward and forward velocities and the pitch/roll angles upon impact. They also had some real time ACARS transmissions as clues. That's a lot more than they have on MH370 right now ... that they're telling us about, that is.

Edited March 10, 2014 by MaxYakov

[Carmine6]

@krisb - lighten up. I was responding to Crib's assertion that some of the claims here were straight out of Hollywood with an image of outback Australia that is similarly fanciful. The idea that the pilot could somehow have landed in Oz undetected is right up there with anything I've seen on the Bermuda Triangle, but the person who typed it obviously didn't think so. TV's lunatic fringe.

If you believe I take any joy in the fate of the passengers and crew on this flight, think again - 6 weeks from now, I get on an overnight flight to KL and have a connecting flight to Penang : I suspect that I have a much more immediate stake in KLIA authorities improving their security procedures than anyone else in this thread - happy to hear otherwise.

It's called black humor, and I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've stepped over the mark.

I thought your post was in poor taste as well. It is not a moderation issue but a sensitivity issue. There's several hundred families still with missing loved ones so now is not quite the time for humor about their fate.

[MrWorldwide]

OK - it's been deleted, so let's get on with our lives, shall we ?

[metisdead]

A "black humor" post has been removed as well as some replies. This is definitely not the time to attempt to make this a humorous event, have some respect for families of the missing and for the missing as well.

[sirchai]

 

They just entered from thailand. The passport had been stolen. So would have had valid visas.

They enter malaysia on a tourist visa by road?. If it doesn't flash a problem they are free to come and go.

Its not a new passport, its a stolen passport. The visas would have been ok. If this comes about to have been stolen it makes Thailand look terrible.

The passport should have flashed up when whoever had it exited Thailand . That is where it was stolen, and thus the thai immigration system should have caught it.

Just shows what a den of international fraud Thailand is.

And who said they exited Thailand on the stolen passport ?

Maybe the exited on their own passport and entered Malaysia on the stolen one.

And you think that a passport that was stolen 2 years ago will have valid visa in it ?

If someone's been using it for 2 years, why not.

I had a passport of my own that was passed out to Burma by my company to renew a visa. I never left.

It would be pretty risky to leave Malaysia without a valid entry. Corruption or a valid entry Malay visa would be necessary.

 

The Italian who's still in Thailand reported his passport stolen last August, not two years ago.

[kimamey]

*Deleted Posts edited out*

Many criticize the US for it's having and the use of it's advanced technology, but at the same time, especially in times of Crisis, people want and need the Technology and Capability that no other government in the world has.

Very true. Depending on the technology it's quite possible that other countries have it as well. Still good to have it in times of need.

[goatfarmer]

Interpol reveals their stolen passport database wasn't checked.

How often does this happen? Should be cross referenced every flight automatically imo, quite shocking and pathetic.

What's the point of even having an interpol database if we don't use them?

Australia has started helping with the search.

Debris found was a door, Malaysia says it's not from the flight.

Well how does a plane this big just dissapear? Usually when a plane this size hit's the water, debris trail stretches for miles does it not?

It disappears if you are looking in the wrong place.

[sirchai]

Rahman said that the search area has been increased to 50 nautical miles, from 20, and includes 34 aircraft and 40 ships. Aircraft are conducting 12-hour searches, until sundown, while ships are scheduled to continue the search throughout the night.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/09/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-carrying-23-people/

[flyingdoc]

Tragic accident indeed, but let's not jump the gun and start conspiracy theories until more is known !

[DekDaeng]

Far more important to find where oppositions leaders penis might have been than stopping stolen passports which could save airliner / passengers / airline.

malaysian government is a disgrace.

[MaxYakov]

<snip>

It is just as unlikely and improbable that a bird struck the windshield of the flight deck causing it to shatter and the two pilots to be sucked out of the airplane.

<snip>

Hahaha...at any rate, sudden decompression of an aircraft does NOT automatically cause all objects (and people) in the plane to be instantly "sucked out"...that's something invented by Hollywood, kids.

There are different types of decompression. The worst is called "explosive decompression." Whether caused by explosives or catastrophic airframe failure, the decompression is sudden, and fatal to all on board in just moments. The air is sucked out of their lungs, many will be hit by debris, the air temperature at 500 MPH at 35,000 feet will quickly freeze them.

It's very possible that many will be ejected from the airplane, but they won't know it.

As for bird strikes, it would take several large birds hitting both engines to shut them down. Even then the airplane would continue to function with everything but power. It would turn into a very heavy glider, as proven by captain "Sully" Sullenberger, ditching into the Hudson river where no one was injured. Sullenberger maintained constant radio contact with control people the whole time.

I would say asteroid strike more probable than bird strike based on what we think are facts . . .

Well ... now that you've brought it up:

Wiki Answers: An NTSB report estimates that the chances of a meteorite penetrating the hull of a domestic aircraft over the US are once every 59,000-77,000 years

If the scope is widened to any objects entering the atmosphere from space (falling satellites, space junk, etc)? Then there are those pesky high-altitude drones and UFOs.

Has it actually happened?: Who knows, but there are rumors that a New Zealand flight was nearly hit by pieces last year's Siberian meteor. (Google).

[MrWorldwide]

I believe the Austrian's passport was stolen 2 years ago, but as earlier noted the Malaysians refuse to use Interpol's database of stolen and forged passports when processing passengers. The Italian guy appeared on Oz TV this morning, flanked by two of Thailand's finest, laughing about the fact that his friends had contacted him via Facebook after seeing his name on the published passenger manifest. The BiB seemed to find it equally humorous that a passport stolen on Phuket would turn up in the hands of a potential terrorist in KL a short time later - I guess it makes a change from drug and people smugglers.

Edited March 10, 2014 by MrWorldwide

[krisb]

@krisb - lighten up. I was responding to Crib's assertion that some of the claims here were straight out of Hollywood with an image of outback Australia that is similarly fanciful. The idea that the pilot could somehow have landed in Oz undetected is right up there with anything I've seen on the Bermuda Triangle, but the person who typed it obviously didn't think so. TV's lunatic fringe.

If you believe I take any joy in the fate of the passengers and crew on this flight, think again - 6 weeks from now, I get on an overnight flight to KL and have a connecting flight to Penang : I suspect that I have a much more immediate stake in KLIA authorities improving their security procedures than anyone else in this thread - happy to hear otherwise.

It's called black humor, and I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've stepped over the mark.

Worldwide you managed to do it again, stuck your big size 12 right in it. Their is NO room for humour in any variety on this thread. Krisb +1. Incoming.

Anyhow, let's move foward. I'm flying to Bkk via KL in 2 weeks. Can't help but feel very nervous. My wife looks pale at the thought of it. Nearly flew with Malaysia but booked with Air Asia instead. Hearts pumping faster just thinking about it.

[NanLaew]

Italian and Austrian passports. The Italian name "Luigi Maraldi" indicates ethnic Italian i.e. European appearance. Austrian is likely Caucasian too. Not the best choices for terrorists of the usual origin, though still wouldn't rule it out.

You would be surprised how many Italian and Austrian people have a latin look.

And that might be a very good choice for a terrorist of the usual origin.

And do not forget the thousands of "new" Europeans getting a passport....................

if these passport holders are using fake passports is there anyway someone could identify the real persons. If so, how?

They have images of all passengers when exiting through immigration.

KL airport does not use cameras at Immigration, arrival or departure.

KL Immigration takes fingerprint scans of arrivals the FIRST TIME that passport is presented. I have been processed through on subsequent visits on same passport without fingerprint scanning.

KL Immigration doesn't fingerprint scan anyone on departure.

KL Transit Immigration is even less thorough.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory nonsense post has been removed as well as the replies.

[rhodie]

if these passport holders are using fake passports is there anyway someone could identify the real persons. If so, how?

f the usual origin.

And do not forget the thousands of "new" Europeans getting a passport....................

They have images of all passengers when exiting through immigration.

KL airport does not use cameras at Immigration, arrival or departure.

KL Immigration takes fingerprint scans of arrivals the FIRST TIME that passport is presented. I have been processed through on subsequent visits on same passport without fingerprint scanning.

KL Immigration doesn't fingerprint scan anyone on departure.

KL Transit Immigration is even less thorough.

Have been there twice in the last 3 years. My fingerprints have never been taken.

Don't remember cameras, but I did read a report that the authorities have images of the 2, but not sure if it is true.

[Scott]

A post with messed up quotes has been removed.

[sean in udon]

There are too many pages for me to read the entire thread, so apologies if someone has already made this observation.

Terrorism is definitely going to be on the agenda with this disaster.

I believe, that terrorism is not a factor.

The purpose of terrorists blowing up a plane is to 'promote' their cause and spread terror.

No scumbag has crawled out of his cesspool to jump up and down saying 'We did it. We're great.'

Terrorism is not to be dismissed (& I'm sure it won't be) as part of the investigation, but I think toward the bottom of the list of possible causes.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[chooka]

I believe the Austrian's passport was stolen 2 years ago, but as earlier noted the Malaysians refuse to use Interpol's database of stolen and forged passports when processing passengers. The Italian guy appeared on Oz TV this morning, flanked by two of Thailand's finest, laughing about the fact that his friends had contacted him via Facebook after seeing his name on the published passenger manifest. The BiB seemed to find it equally humorous that a passport stolen on Phuket would turn up in the hands of a potential terrorist in KL a short time later - I guess it makes a change from drug and people smugglers.

Saw that on Aussie T.V also. It appeared to just be a photo opportunity for the BIB, arms around him and the room full of BIB. They probably didn't give a &lt;deleted&gt; about him when he 1st reported his passport stolen back in August

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puzVjdEdonI&feature=player_detailpage

[EyesWideOpen]

There are too many pages for me to read the entire thread, so apologies if someone has already made this observation.

Terrorism is definitely going to be on the agenda with this disaster.

I believe, that terrorism is not a factor.

The purpose of terrorists blowing up a plane is to 'promote' their cause and spread terror.

No scumbag has crawled out of his cesspool to jump up and down saying 'We did it. We're great.'

Terrorism is not to be dismissed (& I'm sure it won't be) as part of the investigation, but I think toward the bottom of the list of possible causes.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Agreed. Normally Muslim country nationals hand out terrorism on the international stage ,they

are generally not on the receiving end. There could possibly be an angle of Chinese terrorism

with the Uyghur separatists from the Xinjiang area.

It will be interesting to see what really happened to this plane. I personally think the wing failed that was involved in the accident two years earlier. Other than the idiotic Asiana Airlines flying the plane into the seawall at San Francisco, I believe this plane had a perfect safety record.......It is also my favorite plane to fly on.

[slipperylobster]

@krisb - lighten up. I was responding to Crib's assertion that some of the claims here were straight out of Hollywood with an image of outback Australia that is similarly fanciful. The idea that the pilot could somehow have landed in Oz undetected is right up there with anything I've seen on the Bermuda Triangle, but the person who typed it obviously didn't think so. TV's lunatic fringe.

If you believe I take any joy in the fate of the passengers and crew on this flight, think again - 6 weeks from now, I get on an overnight flight to KL and have a connecting flight to Penang : I suspect that I have a much more immediate stake in KLIA authorities improving their security procedures than anyone else in this thread - happy to hear otherwise.

It's called black humor, and I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've stepped over the mark.

Worldwide you managed to do it again, stuck your big size 12 right in it. Their is NO room for humour in any variety on this thread. Krisb +1. Incoming.

Anyhow, let's move foward. I'm flying to Bkk via KL in 2 weeks. Can't help but feel very nervous. My wife looks pale at the thought of it. Nearly flew with Malaysia but booked with Air Asia instead. Hearts pumping faster just thinking about it.

You are not alone....I am flying (of all places) to the Philippines next week. And from there back to Kuala Lumpur. Let us hope that security tightens up....I am willing to wait a bit longer in line, if they check every single passport. This could have been any flight, going anywhere.

A previous remark that Chinese Terrorists were on the loose was a bit off, I think. They exist, but I doubt they were involved... Too much at stake there.

[Skipperau]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

Good idea, parachutes are too unreliable though but it's not difficult to engineer a ball that can survive impact at terminal velocity and in using solid state data storage the internals could survive impact too.

This however could not be achieved with proven technology 5 years ago (they aren't going to use technology which hasn't been proven reliable on a plane) so don't expect this to be introduced any time soon.

I was also thinking... how much will be spent in man hours, fuel, logistics and investigation. It would certainly be more than development of such a device. Last idea.... make it float!!!

So, what you're suggesting is an airborne version of the emergency transponder bouy fitted to submarines, that is an awesome idea. The tech is basically available now, automatically deployable wings as per the range of cruise missiles available for the past 20+ years, self inflating bouyancy bags as developed for the Gemini program in the '60's, a medium range coded transponder similar to maritime EPIRBs. Yep, that could work a treat, and recess it into the belly behind the aft cargo space.