Thailand exposed as crime hub over MH370 stolen passports

[quagmirefg]

No denying that Thailand is the "Wild, Wild East"

This highlights the RTP BIB's complete lack of enforcement either from corruption or just plain laziness.

Even the simple task of traffic enforcement is very limited or non existant which recently resulted in Thailand being ranked the 2nd most dangerous roads in the world.

Many love the carefree lifestyle created by the BIBs turning a "blind eye", but at the same time Loathing the lack of enforcement of basic rules and laws.

World attention is now on the RTP for the stolen Passports used on the MAS flight.

But how long will the RTP crack down on the Passport Black Market ?

The only way to restore the RTP as a proper Law Enforcement Agency is a complete revamp and overhaul.

The problems are too deeply embedded that anything less would be a futile effort.

[spidermike007]

How is this TAT a new slogan for your next promotion " hub of crime " and it is all because of corruption get a decent a decent government that takes harsh action on corruption but it will still take a long time to stop.

"UNSAVOURY CHARACTERS"

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said more than 60,000 passports - both Thai and foreign - were reported missing or stolen in Thailand between January 2012 and June 2013.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/us-malaysia-airlines-thailand-passports-idUSBREA290KD20140310

Or how about instead of "Amazing Thailand" :

Inconceivable Thailand

Incomprehensible Thailand

Planet Thailand

Paradoxical Thailand

Bizarre Thailand

Do not even try to understand Thailand

The country beyond your comprehension

Corrupt Thailand

Just a few possibilities. Should I shop them to the TOT? Or the AOT?

[rct99q]

We are out in full force with nonsense slagging Thailand post over a worldwide issue of stolen passports.

Flight information seen by AFP shows that two tickets in Kozel and Maraldi's names were issued in Pattaya, a beach resort south of Bangkok, on March 6, 2014, and were paid for in Thai baht.

Extracted the above from a news report-simple statement but fails to address the real truth:

Some sources say the agent selling the tickets saw the purchaser others say they were purchased on line (online you get an electronic ticket) in the above paragraph you will notice they were paid for in Thai Baht - now does this mean the purchaser physically paid in cash (Thai Baht) or was it from a bank account either from a Thai bank or an overseas transfer that was ticked to pay in Thai Baht - please lets get some real aspects not just journalistic claptrap.

Yes all the knockers are out of the woodwork with nary a constructive comment.

Not only on Thai Visa but reports from everywhere are full of "it" never let the truth get in the way of a "STORY".

Cash sale is everything other then a credit card purchase. So cash, cheque, debit card, and of course cash. The person who bought the tickets, supposedly, was not one of the travelers. The person purchased the tickets for two other people. This has been reported in several news articles.

This story is hardly 3 days old now and everybody I am sure is looking for answers. However this is not an episode of CIS or NCIS or Law & Order or whatever junk you watch on TV. This is a real life drama. Real people involved here not actors. THIS will take time to get all the answers.

I suggest some people take more time getting to know the real world and spend less time hooked on TV dramas, news programs and bar stool gossip to make silly posts in TV forums.

[Thaddeus]

How is this TAT a new slogan for your next promotion " hub of crime " and it is all because of corruption get a decent a decent government that takes harsh action on corruption but it will still take a long time to stop.

"UNSAVOURY CHARACTERS"

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said more than 60,000 passports - both Thai and foreign - were reported missing or stolen in Thailand between January 2012 and June 2013.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/us-malaysia-airlines-thailand-passports-idUSBREA290KD20140310

Or how about instead of "Amazing Thailand" :

Inconceivable Thailand

Incomprehensible Thailand

Planet Thailand

Paradoxical Thailand

Bizarre Thailand

Do not even try to understand Thailand

The country beyond your comprehension

Corrupt Thailand

Or, how about.

Pseudo-china.

[Jim walker]

Thai police don’t need or want to investigate stolen passport because there is no money cash involved for them to collect, and no one cares anyway about some foreigner’s passport being stolen plenty more happy foreigners who still have their passports

Edited March 11, 2014 by metisdead
Font again!

[Jonmarleesco]

There was a time when height and any identifying marks were part of the passport application; but not now, apparently. Why, when such details add to the holder's identifiability.

[quagmirefg]

Many Airlines "REQUIRE" the Credit Card Holder to "Present" the card used to purchase a ticket at the check-in counter when checking in.

Buying a airline ticket on many airlines for a third party would be difficult if the card holder was not traveling together or at the airport for check-in.

Also credit cards can be tracked back to the source, so a person knowingly doing a questionable act would pay cash only.

[wilcopops]

What happens next?

A nape-of-the-neck reaction by the Thai authorities?

A series of ridiculous, pointless and irrelevant measures that have no real effect apart from pissing people off in an attempt to save face of the various ministers and govt/police officials who have been caught napping.

[Rorri]

noitom, on 11 Mar 2014 - 08:03, said:noitom, on 11 Mar 2014 - 08:03, said:

Why didn't the Thai travel agent enter passport numbers in Interpol database at time of booking and why didn't South China Air before authorizing tickets? The Thai racketeering and human trafficking looks very exposed on this. The Thai criminal network and corruption is massive.

This time there was a major airline crash and dues have to be paid, stories have to reconcile. We'll see the Thais placing blame on the Malaysian, the Italians. We'll see the Thais blustering and puffing, twisting, squealing, and squirming. This MH370 incident confirms a very big security breach in Thailand. Very high risk for tourists.

Um, silly man, travel agents and airlines do not have access to Interpol's database, it is for Government authorities to use eg, immigration.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Rorri

[FredNL]

"...... Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online,........... This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said."

Any booking made online is traceable. On my websites every order can be traced where it is placed with the IP-address.

Together with the date and time it will be easy to trace the person that has made the reservation. Even when it was done in a internet cafe, while most off them have CCTV recording overviewing the place.

Next to this the server logs have all information. Maybe Thai police is too stupid to check this out.

Edited March 11, 2014 by metisdead
Bold and different colored font reset to normal

[Emster23]

"Flight information seen by AFP shows that two tickets in Kozel and Maraldi's names were issued in Pattaya, a beach resort south of Bangkok, on March 6, 2014, and were paid for in Thai baht."

Does anyone that writes this stuff live in Thailand? Look at a map? Last time I looked, Pattaya is east of Bangkok (slightly south, but mostly east). If you can't get the simple stuff right.... Did like press conference when Malaysian said something like "Does Balotelli look Italian?". Still wonder why won't at least say skin color. Nigerian scammers branching out?

[Thai at Heart]

Pattaya police chief Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online, initially through Grand Horizon Travel, which contacted Six Stars Travel, which later purchased the air tickets. This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said.

Obviously, he's not reading today's various news accounts that have officials from the involved travel agencies talking about the tickets having been requested by an Iranian named "Mr. Ali" and then paid for in cash in Phuket by a "friend" of Mr. Ali, a supposed Pattaya businessman who frequently travels between Iran and Pattaya.

The BKK Post today is reporting that Ali sent an email from Iran originally asking for the reservations to be made, according to the travel agency. AFAIK, those travel agencies don't have any capacity for direct online ticket purchases by passengers. Thus no credit cards were involved.

Perhaps this is the start of a new TAT promotional campaign: Thailand, the HUB of all your fraudulent passport needs!

And this now is a big issue because there are a hug number of sub agents for thai airways and other airlines. There ar travel agents who have virtually no capability to issue tickets other than to be part of a network.

Essentially, I'd should have been produced along side this purchase. Shouldn't passport numbers have been put into the system also?

[Rorri]

Lupatria, on 11 Mar 2014 - 09:49, said:

Chang_paarp, on 11 Mar 2014 - 07:47, said:

Quote

But entering Western countries with a stolen Western passport "is not easy," said Ahmed Salah Hashim, Associate Professor at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

He gives credence to the theory that terrorists may have targeted MH370, particularly since the two stolen passports were under Interpol surveillance.

Thailand does not check passports against Interpol's Stolen and Lost Travel Documents (SLTD) database -- which has more than 40 million entries -- a senior Thai immigration police officer told AFP.

The international police organisation has urged countries to screen all passports "for the sake of innocent passengers".

So Thailand does not even check passports against the Interpol list, great security. It appears they don't even check their own data base.

Its not that they don't check in Thailand !

However, if you browse a passport for three minutes just to find evidence for an overstay to fork in some head-money, you have little time to look for unrewarded issues with 100 more people waiting in line.

Another unbelievable point: They take your picture at the counter and the Italian passport contains a biometric scan of the holders face. If it doesn’t match with the biometric scan of the data base photo, you are not the person on the pic. Even a six year old can identify the difference. But maybe that takes one too many mouse clicks- and as we all know- that will cause headaches.

A mandatory European passport with biometric scan cost around 4.000 Thb, it was half price for the former ones. Value for money? Not here, as they turn out just to be stamp pads.

Thailand does not have biometric readers, at immigration, for foreign passports. Checks are done, as you should know, visually, They also take your photo when you enter the country, and check it when you leave, it is not checked with the biometric photo stored, on electronic chip, on your passport.

[samtam]

Thailand obviously has a problem with fraudulent passports and theft, but the other part of this is the lack of checking the Interpol database of stolen passports, and in this case, in Malaysia. Whether these two EU passports had biometric information is not known/disclosed, but clearly if they did, it was not checked. Do all immigration counters worldwide, (and certainly in major airports like Kuala Lumpur) have the facility to check?

The story is getting widespread international press too - front page in today's Guardian.

We may pf course be on a hiding to nothing, but given the extensive security checks we all endure, (and quite happily if it achieves prevention of crimes), there is clearly an achillies heal. When you leave Suvarnabhumi (and other airports), your passport is checked by Immigration, by an unofficial looking official at the entrance to the gate against your boarding pass, and then sometimes again when the boading pass is scanned. Irritating, and quite possibly pointless, when you are concentrating on trying to get on board in a calm and peaceful manner.

[zydeco]

All of us who are expats living here in Thailand are going to be the ones to suffer because of this. Yes, those of us who already must jump through all of immigration's hoops and obstacles are going to find a few more come next visa renewal time or (heaven forbid) an additional check at the 90 day check in. Why don't the countries pay who are responsible for these gangs and terrorists. Yes, that means Russia, Iran, Pakistan, and probably a few more. Why make everyone else suffer the consequences when the sources for 90 percent of the problem is well known. I guess they're afraid of losing the "quality tourism" from Russia and the medical money from the Middle East pouring into Bumrungrad.

[captspectre]

How is this TAT a new slogan for your next promotion " hub of crime " and it is all because of corruption get a decent a decent government that takes harsh action on corruption but it will still take a long time to stop.

"UNSAVOURY CHARACTERS"

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said more than 60,000 passports - both Thai and foreign - were reported missing or stolen in Thailand between January 2012 and June 2013.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/us-malaysia-airlines-thailand-passports-idUSBREA290KD20140310

if that number is correct, then Thailand does indeed have a serous problem! where are the sixty thousand passports? I don't believe that number!

[captspectre]

All of us who are expats living here in Thailand are going to be the ones to suffer because of this. Yes, those of us who already must jump through all of immigration's hoops and obstacles are going to find a few more come next visa renewal time or (heaven forbid) an additional check at the 90 day check in. Why don't the countries pay who are responsible for these gangs and terrorists. Yes, that means Russia, Iran, Pakistan, and probably a few more. Why make everyone else suffer the consequences when the sources for 90 percent of the problem is well known. I guess they're afraid of losing the "quality tourism" from Russia and the medical money from the Middle East pouring into Bumrungrad.

I dodn't see a problem for expats already living here and who have had at least one or more years of retirement extemsion as tha paperwork is already on file. everytime I have renewed my oen year they have brought previous year up on computer. but you never know! could be that they will push the panic button!

[Rorri]

Emster23, on 11 Mar 2014 - 13:20, said:Emster23, on 11 Mar 2014 - 13:20, said:

"Flight information seen by AFP shows that two tickets in Kozel and Maraldi's names were issued in Pattaya, a beach resort south of Bangkok, on March 6, 2014, and were paid for in Thai baht."

Does anyone that writes this stuff live in Thailand? Look at a map? Last time I looked, Pattaya is east of Bangkok (slightly south, but mostly east). If you can't get the simple stuff right.... Did like press conference when Malaysian said something like "Does Balotelli look Italian?". Still wonder why won't at least say skin color. Nigerian scammers branching out?

Get a new compass.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Rorri

[zydeco]

All of us who are expats living here in Thailand are going to be the ones to suffer because of this. Yes, those of us who already must jump through all of immigration's hoops and obstacles are going to find a few more come next visa renewal time or (heaven forbid) an additional check at the 90 day check in. Why don't the countries pay who are responsible for these gangs and terrorists. Yes, that means Russia, Iran, Pakistan, and probably a few more. Why make everyone else suffer the consequences when the sources for 90 percent of the problem is well known. I guess they're afraid of losing the "quality tourism" from Russia and the medical money from the Middle East pouring into Bumrungrad.

I dodn't see a problem for expats already living here and who have had at least one or more years of retirement extemsion as tha paperwork is already on file. everytime I have renewed my oen year they have brought previous year up on computer. but you never know! could be that they will push the panic button!

I'm on a Non-Immigrant Visa and work here. This last year, I was told my visa renewal would not be processed unless I brought with me a signed form from my landlord, with her ID card and signature attached as photocopies. This may or may not have been a "requirement" before, but there was certainly a crackdown after the last time Iranian bombers went amok here and threw some handgrenades and blew themselves up about a year and a half ago, I think it was. Just more trouble for me. My landlord is a disabled lady who is not always in Bangkok. What happens during the next renewal if she is laid up or in hospital and I have trouble getting the form signed then? Now, what will immigration think up to save face and look good in front of the world? I cannot imagine that it will be anything other than an inconvenience for me and the other rule following expats who live here.

[nahkit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Multiple news sources state that the tickets were paid for in cash.

"...... Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online,........... This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said."

Okay, now I'm really confused.

If a booking was made on-line, doesn't that mean a credit card number was needed to make payment? It doesn't matter how many re-bookings or middle agents were used to throw off the scent, coz the electronic paper trail can always be traced back to the card number, and, therefore, the cardholder.

Criminal gangs deal in hard cash for that very reason.

Anyone have a better understanding of this??

Didn't the OP say the tickets were purchased with baht? Of course, they could have used Thai credit cards. Crooks and terrorists may be likely to pay a bar girl a premium to make the purchase online for them to cover their tracks. The name on the cc and the name on the ticket do not have to agree, that is a fact.

I think you are correct. An airline ticket in my name can be purchased legally on-line using the credit card details of a third person.

So, if the purchase of that ticket implicated me in a serious criminal offence, you would expect the police to pay a visit to the holder of the credit card and ask a few questions.

As you stated, some unfortunate bar girl might have been conned into allowing me to use her credit card, and then later not be willing or able to identify me.

The Police Colonel said that it was impossible to identify who made the booking in this case. I hope the good colonel went to the trouble of locating the cardholder and adequately interrogating him/her before he made such a claim.

My daughter booked a ticket online this week and paid for it at Krungthai bank, no id required, so its not that difficult.

[coconutbar]

We are out in full force with nonsense slagging Thailand post over a worldwide issue of stolen passports

did you just tune into thaivisa today coz its been full force slaggin ever since i can remember

[JRSoul]

Thailand obviously has a problem with fraudulent passports and theft, but the other part of this is the lack of checking the Interpol database of stolen passports, and in this case, in Malaysia. Whether these two EU passports had biometric information is not known/disclosed, but clearly if they did, it was not checked. Do all immigration counters worldwide, (and certainly in major airports like Kuala Lumpur) have the facility to check?

The story is getting widespread international press too - front page in today's Guardian.

We may pf course be on a hiding to nothing, but given the extensive security checks we all endure, (and quite happily if it achieves prevention of crimes), there is clearly an achillies heal. When you leave Suvarnabhumi (and other airports), your passport is checked by Immigration, by an unofficial looking official at the entrance to the gate against your boarding pass, and then sometimes again when the boading pass is scanned. Irritating, and quite possibly pointless, when you are concentrating on trying to get on board in a calm and peaceful manner.

My chip-equipped passport has a small water stain across the photograph, and I was once been advised by Oz immigration (Brisbane) that it should not be used. Mentioned that to immigration at KL airport a while later, and she turned her screen around to show me what was read from the chip. No problems on many trips land and air toThailand, Malaysia and Cambodia, all equipped to read chip passports.

[slipperylobster]

There's that word hub again, well deserved this time.

Yes. I finally admitted to myself that I am an "Hubaholic", as I cannot stop myself from reading the whole story, if it contains "Hub" in the title. Now I am in treatment, and I can start reading other articles.

[harrycallahan]

My hunch. The fake passport travellers were unlucky illegal immigrants. Plane was brought down by technical malfunction and/or pilot error.

I said pretty much the same at post #46 in relation to the passports.

All but confirmed by Malaysian authorities.

I think terrorism less likely because I don't see the usual suspects as being particularly interested in China. While China does have their Ugher (spell) issues they seem a rather crude group - last attack used knives, not even guns, so not much chance of mounting a sophisticated plane bombing. Plus Malaysia is a Muslim nation, so they'd be hitting their own too.

Edited March 11, 2014 by harrycallahan

[razer]

My passport was stolen whenI first arrived BKK in 2007 and I knew who stole it. I reported it to the police who were not interested in assisting me, so I just went my embassy, reported it stolen and got a new passport. It all comes down to the police; every time. I wish they understood what national pride is. It might be a good thing for Thailand if the government allowed copies of passports to serve as a tempory ID until the original could be presented but that would eleminate the extorsion fine police collect. Tourists and residents could leave their passports in a safe place and produce it if necessary.

Hotels could issue a tourist ID as well, with the name of the hotel, the passport number, and visa expiration date. That should be sufficient for any ID or rental when presented with a driving license.

[davidstipek]

In Thailand, watch your passport

BY TERRENCE MCCOY

WASHINGTON: -- While nearly every aspect of this weekend’s disappearance of a Malaysian jetliner is surprising, one element is not. At least two of its 239 passengers had been traveling with stolen passports — and those documents had been lost in Thailand, home to what’s become one of the most robust stolen passport trades in the world.

Both Luigi Maraldi, a short-haired Italian, and a 30-year-old Austrian named Christian Kozel had been traveling through a southern province in Thailand called Phuket when their passports were lost — or stolen.

In 2012, Kozel’s went missing in Phuket, which juts out of Thailand’s main coast like a snaggletooth. And on July 22 of last year, someone took Maraldi’s after the Italian submitted his passport as collateral on a rented motorbike, by far the most used means of transportation in Southeast Asia.

Message boards from Lonely Planet to Thai Visa are clogged with accounts of stolen passports or ruminations on whether to leave their own at a bike shop. New Zealand, which sends thousands of tourists to Southeast Asia every year, warns its travelers to never leave their passports with a motorcycle rent shop — because no one knows where they could wind up.

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/10/in-thailand-watch-your-passport-2/

-- The Washington Post 2014-03-11

Simple solution...

Don't just Warn!!! Make it Illegal!!! for anyone in the World to request or Demand Your Passport in lieu of any suggested deposit. Passport must remain in posession of Owner 100% of the time once it has been issued. It would be a positive thing to leave a Copy. You request...I report... You go to Jail... End of Story...

Same Idea ... EXAMPLE: You Drink... You Drive... You are Stopped for an infraction (Must be legit reason) you are tested you are going ASAP to Jail... No Passing Go... No get out of Jail Free Card. Also Agencies who deviate from also Fine and Suspension/Demotion... What this would end is Endless!

This would subject the organizations doing this to Fines not only in country where offense took placed, but also from Country of orgin. Madatory fines, once reported must be acted on, Embassy's required to follow-up reports, Also any Agency (Law Enforcement) devating from would also be fined and possible Jail Time imposed.

I think if this thinking was spearheaded by USA and other Members of United Nations Security Counsul.... Things in Air Travel would clean-up...Overnight!

Also International Flights make it a required step in Boardering... Thumb Prints! Ticket stubs revised to have required spots for Prints... Or Boarding Fight is Refused! Simple... Airlines invest alot of money in Buying, Flying, Maintaining their Fleet of Aircraft.... Investments are Huge!! Prices has Skyrocketed. CEO's of these Companies need to make their Staff more responsible! Because of the demanded funds for this mode of travel.. Fliers Need the security, Nations and Corporations only... can produce here!!

Edited March 11, 2014 by davidstipek

[razer]

Possible remedy for stolen passports ... My passport was stolen whenI first arrived BKK in 2007 and I knew who stole it. I reported it to the police who were not interested in assisting me, so I just went my embassy, reported it stolen and got a new passport. It all comes down to the police; every time. I wish they understood what national pride is. It might be a good thing for Thailand if the government allowed copies of passports to serve as a tempory ID until the original could be presented but that would eleminate the extorsion fine police collect. Tourists and residents could leave their passports in a safe place and produce it if necessary.

Hotels could issue a tourist ID as well, with the name of the hotel, the passport number, and visa expiration date. That should be sufficient for any ID or rental when presented with a driving license.

[pacovl46]

How were the Austrian and the Italian guy able to leave Thailand without passports? This is would've been only possible, if they had left on an Austrian and Italian flight respectively, but surely they would've contacted their embassies before flying out to have a provisional passport issued. Either way, they would've had to have their passports reported stolen. I seriously doubt that anyone without a passport can just leave Thailand without assistence from their embassy in some form. I lost one once, and the German embassy told me I have to have a police report stating it as stolen in order to apply for a new one. Maybe this is different in Austria or Italy, but somehow I doubt it!

[max72]

So the Iranian guys were not terrorists, they just wanted to reach Germany.

So what happened to the ultra safe Boing 777 ?

[razer]

Possible remedy for stolen passports ... My passport was stolen whenI first arrived BKK in 2007 and I knew who stole it. I reported it to the police who were not interested in assisting me, so I just went my embassy, reported it stolen and got a new passport. It all comes down to the police; every time. I wish they understood what national pride is. It might be a good thing for Thailand if the government allowed copies of passports to serve as a tempory ID until the original could be presented but that would eleminate the extorsion fine police collect. Tourists and residents could leave their passports in a safe place and produce it if necessary.

Hotels could issue a tourist ID as well, with the name of the hotel, the passport number, and visa expiration date. That should be sufficient for any ID or rental when presented with a driving license.