'Totally inappropriate': Tourist's shock at Buddhist temple in Thailand

[bankei]

I like it and think it is totally appropriate no matter where it is.

[Coppernicussing]

"I am shocked! Simply shocked! There is gambling going on in the casino! This cafe is to be closed immediately!"

"Your winnings, sir..."

"Thank you. This cafe is to remain closed until further notice!" ~ Casablanca

[thailiketoo]

AMAZING THAILAND... Lots of insensitive, uneducated, pseudoatist wantabees attempting

to make a point and.... a total failure

I believe if you read this thread your Thai bashing also applies to the people on Thai Visa. Oh well. So you should re phrase and say, Thai Visa, Lots of insensitive, uneducated, pseudoatist wantabees attempting

to understand a point and.... a partial success.

PS what is a pseudoatist? Is that like a pseudoarsesist? Or do you mean to say you don't understand the art therefore it is not real?

Edited April 10, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Seastallion]

How come they ignored Hitler?

The Hitler symbols and images have now become past tense and no longer in fashion.

This in my opinion is a total mockery and travesty of one of the worst tragedies of modern times. This so-called work of art that depicts 9/11 in such an insensitive manner is of extremely bad taste and is bound to offend and probably cause great upset and grief to those who survived or lost loved one`s in the 9/11 disaster and to many Westerners that witnessed these horrific events taking place during the times. I still have the terrifying images of people jumping to their deaths in my mind.

This is the work of a warped mind, by someone who has no sensitivity to horrific and tragic events such as this.

The question is; how many more times are the Thais going to plead ignorance to their creation of these offensive so-called artworks and imagines? Because there can be no excuses. Only one word to describe this: outrageous.

I hope that tourists will decide to boycott that temple until those offensive images are smashed down and destroyed.

The reality and there were no super heroes around at the time to rescue them:

You still have the terrifying images of people in your mind yet you post a video of it..........................................................................

I am trying to nail home the reality for the ignorant that perhaps have no idea what was involved during 9/11 and those who have short memories, also I wonder if some of the opinions posted on here would be the same if they were involved or lost loved one`s in the disaster? I guess not if it were personal to them. I actually lost a cousin during the collapse of one of the buildings.

The way the 9/11 tragedy is depicted in that painting is insensitive and inappropriate. This is not a respectful memorial to the disaster but rather portrayed as something of visual amusement apparently created to impress the tourists.

It`s bang out of order and as I see it, obscene. There can be no excuses or any justifications for the display of this total load of offensive crap and I say again; outrageous.

If you knew the artist's thoughts, you should think differently. However, images such as below were deliberately produced to insult. The teeshirts were produced just after the last major attack Gaza.

1 shot, 2 kills and a picture of a pregnant Muslim woman in a scope's cross-hairs. THAT is offensive.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Seastallion

[Fookhaht]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

...And possibly a citizen of one of the 30 other nations who lost their people in this unspeakable tragedy.

I find your post ignorant of the facts, narrowminded, and consequently repulsive.

[bangon04]

Looks like an angry bird in there also....

yes the usual contempt for copyright issues...haha

[LawrenceN]

This image appears to me to be a legitimate work of art.

It seems the artist is extremely talented.

Whether such provocative art belongs in wats though, that I don't know, as I don't pretend to understand Thai Buddhist culture.

I think an art gallery would be better.

Yes, even in New York. Maybe better in New York.

Art is more than something that looks pretty over your sofa, my dears.

I have already "liked" your post, Jingthing, so yes, I agree. I have been to the White Temple many times. It's meant to be provocative, as much contemporary art is meant to be. Ajaan Chalermchai challenges Thai people to think, also, so it's not as if he's just trying to irritate Westerners. The images on the temple wall are memes, meant to make us all, Thai Buddhists or not, think about our role in shaping society. I'm an American and a Buddhist, and was not offended at these images. In no way does Ajaan Chalermchai cheer the tragic event of September 11, 2001; it's just there, maybe for its ability to jar delicate sensibilities.

I love to stop to appreciate traditional art at Thai temples during my bike rides in rural Chiang Mai. Some of it is fantastic, but I'm glad to see Ajaan Chalermchai broadening the meaning of religious art in Thailand, even it it ruffles some feathers. Many in the North are quite proud of his success.

I bought my first piece of his art in 1997, when my wife and I wandered into his parents' noodle shop in Chiang Rai. In place of the usual Fanta ad posters was this fantastic art with Buddhist themes, but very contemporary. One that sticks in my mind was monks on a conveyor belt being dumped into a meat grinder, or something like that. The one I bought as a signed print shows a sculpture of a prince through the stone window frame of a collapsed palace, with a stylized lotus sprouting in the foreground and ocean waves into the distance. It's titled "Sublime Sea." I still have it in my living room (not over a sofa). I bought that one as it was the most serene of the art in the noodle shop that day. The original is owned by Supachai Panichapakdi, who was Chairman of Bangkok Bank at the time.

[iamariva1957]

JT... I am with you on this one. Art is art. We can chose to like it or not. We can find it offensive or not. After all, it is an expression of the artist and not the viewer.

As for those that find it questionable and even "Totally inappropriate"... well... it might be exactly that. Being from NYC originally and an American, I find that the addition of that time to be disturbing to say the least. But maybe that was what the artist was going for. I actually have a greater dislike and anger towards the Nazi symbols and pictures of Hitler on show here on (T shirts, bike helmets, and the flags in stalls). But though I do not like the piece in question myself and would never hang it on my wall or hoard it in case it ever became valuable... what do I know about the the likes of others to sit and judge.

It also has to be remembered that here in Thailand very few know about the Holocaust, who Hitler even was not to mention what he did/represented, and what the Japanese did during WW2. What they know is what they see, for the most part, on TV. The Twin Towers they saw. The War in Iraq they saw. The fighting in Crimea they saw, So if the rest of the world is on that flat screen in their houses they know it. If it isn't, then they have to have had some instruction in school. But there again that is a problem. For they do not get the type of Social Study or History classes that we got.

I am just saying,,,,,,

[thailampang2012]

Many famous surrealistic painters, from Salvador Dali to Francis Bacon, portrayed Jesus on its works, not always in a religious way...Were criticized at the time...now its shows on the best world museum, from Chicago Metropolitan Art Museum to the Louvre. This one looks to me like a very nice piece from a talented surrealist painter. Surrealism is hard to understand some times. Its just Art. An Art can be very polemic sometimes.

Edited April 10, 2014 by thailampang2012

[nottocus]

I remember a few weeks after 9/11 we had some show/parade thing at our school. Students dressed up. Had the obligatory Hitler. One guy dressed up as Bin Laden and his supporters ere carrying planes they made out of cardboard together with a model of the twin towers and pictures of the building on fire as well.

Mai Pen Rai I thought. The Americans at school didn't like it. Mind you they didn't like much and were always complaining.

Edited April 10, 2014 by nottocus

[JonnyMoz]

Since when has it been 'Totally inappropriate' to depict a historical events?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thaiready]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

You sir are out if line......if I could get my hands on you I'd teach you respect.

[SICHONSTEVE]

JT... I am with you on this one. Art is art. We can chose to like it or not. We can find it offensive or not. After all, it is an expression of the artist and not the viewer.

As for those that find it questionable and even "Totally inappropriate"... well... it might be exactly that. Being from NYC originally and an American, I find that the addition of that time to be disturbing to say the least. But maybe that was what the artist was going for. I actually have a greater dislike and anger towards the Nazi symbols and pictures of Hitler on show here on (T shirts, bike helmets, and the flags in stalls). But though I do not like the piece in question myself and would never hang it on my wall or hoard it in case it ever became valuable... what do I know about the the likes of others to sit and judge.

It also has to be remembered that here in Thailand very few know about the Holocaust, who Hitler even was not to mention what he did/represented, and what the Japanese did during WW2. What they know is what they see, for the most part, on TV. The Twin Towers they saw. The War in Iraq they saw. The fighting in Crimea they saw, So if the rest of the world is on that flat screen in their houses they know it. If it isn't, then they have to have had some instruction in school. But there again that is a problem. For they do not get the type of Social Study or History classes that we got.

I am just saying,,,,,,

I have seen Osama Bin Laden mudflaps on some lorries in Thailand!!!

I haven't worked out if it is intended as an insult (having dirty mud sprayed on your face all of the time) or whether it is a form of glorification of him!!!!

[Commander Tamson]

Sorry mate, but I think your use of 'unholy' is totally inappropriate. Unless of course it's a subtle attempt on your part to turn this thread into a certain-religion bashing thread. And I don't mean the IRA version of Catholicism that you are obviously referring to when you relate to your experiences at Harrods.

What an extraordinary comment, an 'IRA version of Catholicism'. the rest of this post deleted as you wouldn't understand it.

Why go to the trouble of writing it, to only then to delete it? Full of extraordinary assumptions most probably.

As for the IRA, they bombed & maimed innocents in the morning, then did a couple of Hail Mary's in the afternoon. About as realistic as getting 56 virgins for every infidel you kill. Or don't you think?

[Thaiready]

I remember a few weeks after 9/11 we had some show/parade thing at our school. Students dressed up. Had the obligatory Hitler. One guy dressed up as Bin Laden and his supporters ere carrying planes they made out of cardboard together with a model of the twin towers and pictures of the building on fire as well.

Mai Pen Ra I thought. The Americans at school didn't like it. Mind you they didn't like much and were always complaining.

Bad taste.....Sir......but what you expect from people that know nothing about History.....but it does no good to complain anyway....What I have learned being here for 15 years and yes "I am a Thai Citizen".....when your brain is the size of a walnut you can expect no better out of people......Thais have no idea about History.....and a piss poor understanding of something that is in bad taste. Edited April 10, 2014 by Thaiready

[SICHONSTEVE]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

You sir are out if line......if I could get my hands on you I'd teach you respect.

Its only a painting - the artist wasn't responsible for it happening. It is history, are you suggesting that history can and should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten???

Talking about a ludicrous over reaction. Should they ban all of these war movies as a darned sight more Americans were killed in the second world war!!

Get a life - BTW you can't teach respect you can only earn it!!!

[thailiketoo]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

You sir are out if line......if I could get my hands on you I'd teach you respect.

Its only a painting - the artist wasn't responsible for it happening. It is history, are you suggesting that history can and should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten???

Talking about a ludicrous over reaction. Should they ban all of these war movies as a darned sight more Americans were killed in the second world war!!

Get a life - BTW you can't teach respect you can only earn it!!!

More were killed during 9/11 than Pearl Harbor.

[Thai at Heart]

It all looks a little weird, but doesn't it appear to be a mural depicting a world of violence and war.

Now it might be an odd depiction, but claiming it grossly inappropriate without asking the artist what the theme is, is a bit over the too.

Don't those appear to be spirits leaving the top of the burning buildings.

[BadBouy]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

I'm an American and have been there, I just thought it was a weird mural to be in a Buddist Temple but TIT! Temple looks like like something you would see in Disney World. It's mostly Hollywood crap, pop culture, probably US biggest export, another wall will probably have fast food chains and strip malls.

[FM505]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

And you would be wrong...

[Seastallion]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

You sir are out if line......if I could get my hands on you I'd teach you respect.

Sorry. Really, sorry. No disrespect...really. But your post comes across as....gosh, I don't even know how to explain without implying disrespect (which I sincerely do not want to do).

I'd better leave it at that.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I guess only an American would call this inappropriate.

You sir are out if line......if I could get my hands on you I'd teach you respect.

Its only a painting - the artist wasn't responsible for it happening. It is history, are you suggesting that history can and should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten???

Talking about a ludicrous over reaction. Should they ban all of these war movies as a darned sight more Americans were killed in the second world war!!

Get a life - BTW you can't teach respect you can only earn it!!!

More were killed during 9/11 than Pearl Harbor.

My friend - Pearl Harbour wasn't the second world war!!!

[Maestro]

Removed some troll posts (off-topic nonsense) and the replies to them.

[NanLaew]

So if non-Muslims non-Americans make images of Allah 9/11, the Muslims Americans get upset.

[Scully]

I'm guessing no one in here posting has actually been to this temple, or knows anything about the artist involved with the temple. So posting with the exact same ignorance they claim Thais to have.

I'll be the first to jump in and accuse the majority of Thais about being completely ignorant about the world around them, and I just so happened to visit this temple on the weekend while up north. It was very surreal, but if the offended person had actually bothered to walk around the grounds more, read some of the literature around the place and get some context to it, he wouldn't be so offended.

The temple is a privately owned temple, not state owned, built by the artist (Chalermcha Kositpitap) and his followers, it combines a lot of pop culture referneces alongside ones to purity, death, apolocalptic scenes etc..He doesn't accept donations from Government, politicians of big business - he wants to remain artistically and spiritually independent. He is incredibly well travelled, and the art in his gallery shows this (as well as a wide understanding of world religions, culture and politics)

The pictures are (in his own words, I'm looking at the brochure explaining it now and typing fast so excuse the typos):

"I want everyone to know our world is being destroyed by those who build weapons to kill, thereby ruining the environment because nothing is ever enough. They segregate and cannot find peace. I saw the violence and it hurts me me and mankind to observe the killing of the innocence by these two powerful individuals (referring to Bush and Bin Laden). Peaceful people do not want to see the murder of the muslims and the collapse of the new york twin towers. I want to show the eyes, as important organs, should look at each other with kindness and not with hate that can lead to war. I painted at that time to caution both bush and bin laden, so that they can look toward a peaceful and happy world. I painted superman and ultraman to let people know that there are no heroes in or world, actually people need heroes since our morality declines every day. However no heroes from the movie screen arrive to help the havoc of the twin towers. Eventually the world becomes ill not only with the environment, but also with the people. People lack moral standards, that is why I potray evil people as the demon with mouth opened encircled at the entrance to the temple. When people walk out they will feel that they leave the demon behind that is they have rid themselves from evil spirits and going towards the highest level of dhamma, where people will not be reborn. The thai designs that flow from the eyes, nose and mouth of the demon towards the back wall of the temple change into angelic carriage that takes the people who rid themselves from evil deeds to meet the lord buddha at the edge of the universe"

So yeah, context is important before knee jerk critcism. You might disagree with his motives, but this is a hell of a lot different to the retards at Chula Uni putting hitler up on their graduation banners.

The 9/11 atrocities are imprinted on my mind and I suspect everyone who witnessed the TV footage, nothing can make these awful images less disturbing. This painting is just expressing the artists interpretation of the event and can in no way be called inappropriate, especially after his description of his art.

Whether intended or not its got a reaction and got people discussing his piece, he didn't have to preserve a sheep in formaldehyde or show his <deleted> stained bed for everyone to see. Good painting.

[Thai at Heart]

So if non-Muslims non-Americans make images of Allah 9/11, the Muslims Americans get upset.

The daily mail is British.

[alant]

This image appears to me to be a legitimate work of art.

It seems the artist is extremely talented.

Whether such provocative art belongs in wats though, that I don't know, as I don't pretend to understand Thai Buddhist culture.

I think an art gallery would be better.

Yes, even in New York. Maybe better in New York.

Art is more than something that looks pretty over your sofa, my dears.

Gosh, I was going to say something along those lines but was too scared of the backlash. Thumbs Up JT!!

I am pro an artist being able to express art without restriction so I don't find this bad. I also think it possible this may be to respect the victims.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I'm guessing no one in here posting has actually been to this temple, or knows anything about the artist involved with the temple. So posting with the exact same ignorance they claim Thais to have.

I'll be the first to jump in and accuse the majority of Thais about being completely ignorant about the world around them, and I just so happened to visit this temple on the weekend while up north. It was very surreal, but if the offended person had actually bothered to walk around the grounds more, read some of the literature around the place and get some context to it, he wouldn't be so offended.

The temple is a privately owned temple, not state owned, built by the artist (Chalermcha Kositpitap) and his followers, it combines a lot of pop culture referneces alongside ones to purity, death, apolocalptic scenes etc..He doesn't accept donations from Government, politicians of big business - he wants to remain artistically and spiritually independent. He is incredibly well travelled, and the art in his gallery shows this (as well as a wide understanding of world religions, culture and politics)

The pictures are (in his own words, I'm looking at the brochure explaining it now and typing fast so excuse the typos):

"I want everyone to know our world is being destroyed by those who build weapons to kill, thereby ruining the environment because nothing is ever enough. They segregate and cannot find peace. I saw the violence and it hurts me me and mankind to observe the killing of the innocence by these two powerful individuals (referring to Bush and Bin Laden). Peaceful people do not want to see the murder of the muslims and the collapse of the new york twin towers. I want to show the eyes, as important organs, should look at each other with kindness and not with hate that can lead to war. I painted at that time to caution both bush and bin laden, so that they can look toward a peaceful and happy world. I painted superman and ultraman to let people know that there are no heroes in or world, actually people need heroes since our morality declines every day. However no heroes from the movie screen arrive to help the havoc of the twin towers. Eventually the world becomes ill not only with the environment, but also with the people. People lack moral standards, that is why I potray evil people as the demon with mouth opened encircled at the entrance to the temple. When people walk out they will feel that they leave the demon behind that is they have rid themselves from evil spirits and going towards the highest level of dhamma, where people will not be reborn. The thai designs that flow from the eyes, nose and mouth of the demon towards the back wall of the temple change into angelic carriage that takes the people who rid themselves from evil deeds to meet the lord buddha at the edge of the universe"

So yeah, context is important before knee jerk critcism. You might disagree with his motives, but this is a hell of a lot different to the retards at Chula Uni putting hitler up on their graduation banners.

The 9/11 atrocities are imprinted on my mind and I suspect everyone who witnessed the TV footage, nothing can make these awful images less disturbing. This painting is just expressing the artists interpretation of the event and can in no way be called inappropriate, especially after his description of his art.

Whether intended or not its got a reaction and got people discussing his piece, he didn't have to preserve a sheep in formaldehyde or show his <deleted> stained bed for everyone to see. Good painting.

The artist is unaware that his work is being discussed on the TV forum and that he is having his 'Andy Warhol' 15 minutes of fame moment. How appropriate that is and even more so, how appropriate is it that this is my 3 thousand and 9/11th posting!!!!

[Johpa]

As an American, I don't find it inappropriate in the least. But then I don't find it inappropriate to pat the head of a Buddhist stature (neither did Buddhadasa) or depict Allah in a comic book either.

[USNret]

Do the people who find this well painted depiction of a historical and world changing event also find offence in the many paintings and statues that depict a person being sadistically nail onto a cross by the Romans centuries ago as offensive ? These are also found everywhere in places of worship just like this Temple.

The ignorance demonstrated by this comment is staggering.