Hi All,

Anyone knows if there are laws or policies in place in the USA, UK, France, Germany, Europe-in-general, that states that car manufacturers must build cars that can be put in Neutral (Automatics) when the engine is off.

I'm having some long standing debate with some Thai idiots that says that some cars, including BMW's that it cannot be put into Neutral when the engine is off.

Just wondering if anyone can pull some law or policy from the above mentioned places that I can stick their noses in.

I think if not mistaken should be P and not N as hand break sometimes not working properly, N when it's in traffic light but not engine off as some parking bay where slop. It's danger to just trust the hand break to be function.

I can guarantee that these "idiots" are correct. A BMW cannot be in neutral with ignition switched off. When you switch it off, it will automatically "P" or you have to change to "P" before switching it off (older models). There is a trick though, but it involves removing the cover for the gear lever etc (depends on the model)

mortenaa, on 25 Apr 2014 - 17:38, said:

I can guarantee that these "idiots" are correct. A BMW cannot be in neutral with ignition switched off. When you switch it off, it will automatically "P" or you have to change to "P" before switching it off (older models). There is a trick though, but it involves removing the cover for the gear lever etc (depends on the model)

Removing the driveshaft...........

Not sure about any laws or standards but our late model Wrangler can be switched off in neutral or park. It cannot however be started in neutral - only in park. When in park and switched off, it is locked.

Thank Heavens there's no Audi Know it Alls here,there worse than "Bavarian Murder Weapon" Commandant's. What i loved about My B.M. . It started, stopped and there was nothing to SAY. Superb.

I can guarantee that these "idiots" are correct. A BMW cannot be in neutral with ignition switched off. When you switch it off, it will automatically "P" or you have to change to "P" before switching it off (older models). There is a trick though, but it involves removing the cover for the gear lever etc (depends on the model)

Yup, and my new Ford Ecosport has the same feature. It's a bitch for parking in car parks in Thailand.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Ranger has a special 'push-down' switch,that allows the shift lever to be moved from 'P' to 'N' with the ignition off.

And my Civic has a slot just above the gear shifter where you put the key and press down to enable moving it from park.

The Ranger has a special 'push-down' switch,that allows the shift lever to be moved from 'P' to 'N' with the ignition off.

Yes, I think you have to lift a small cover next to the gear lever to do this?

On my ex Honda City you had to insert the starting key also next to the gear lever (insert the key, put the lever in N, take the key out) in order to leave the car in neutral when parked.

It is sometimes necessary to leave your car in neutral when parked in over capacity car lots and they can push the cars not parked in the slots around so others car get their cars out.

Once at Swampi airport I had to push another car out of the way in order to get my ride out.

On a BMW there is no facility to select N when the engine is not running. If you switch off the engine with N selected then you can't get the key out on older models. It's a pain as often the only place to park requires that you leave the car in "N".

The Ranger has a special 'push-down' switch,that allows the shift lever to be moved from 'P' to 'N' with the ignition off.

Vigo the same.

the shift lock button - great when you want people to push you car around in parking lots..

On a BMW there is no facility to select N when the engine is not running. If you switch off the engine with N selected then you can't get the key out on older models. It's a pain as often the only place to park requires that you leave the car in "N".

Don;t you know? H and T driver are supposed to give up their parking spot for you....it's a BMW afterall That's why there is no facility to put in in N when parked lol

The Ranger has a special 'push-down' switch,that allows the shift lever to be moved from 'P' to 'N' with the ignition off.

Vigo the same.

Can you remove they key with the car in neutral?

I can guarantee that these "idiots" are correct. A BMW cannot be in neutral with ignition switched off. When you switch it off, it will automatically "P" or you have to change to "P" before switching it off (older models). There is a trick though, but it involves removing the cover for the gear lever etc (depends on the model)

Yup, and my new Ford Ecosport has the same feature. It's a bitch for parking in car parks in Thailand.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My 2011 Fiesta can be put into neutral. Have to stop, put it in Park, remove the key, then lift up a small flap near the gear lever and push a button in to override the shift lock.

Your's doesnt have this?

Thank Heavens there's no Audi Know it Alls here,there worse than "Bavarian Murder Weapon" Commandant's. What i loved about My B.M. . It started, stopped and there was nothing to SAY. Superb.

I drive Audi. What's your problem?

BTW, both my Audi's have old style autos. Can switch off in N. And start. But, yeah, this is a problem in new gen automatics.

As stated: e.g. a Toyota Vigo can not be moved from P to N when engine off and key removed.

(except for pushing that little button to unlock.

Key can not be removed when not in P.

Nothing surprising here.

Varies from company to company and maybe even depend on country of sale.

There maybe regulations for that.

Idiots are everywhere, The topic starter should check his choice of words.

Read the "Audi 5000" story at the bottom of this Wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration

Some fools not able to press the correct pedal, forced Audi to do significant changes to the automatic.

Thats what is called foolproof

I can guarantee that these "idiots" are correct. A BMW cannot be in neutral with ignition switched off. When you switch it off, it will automatically "P" or you have to change to "P" before switching it off (older models). There is a trick though, but it involves removing the cover for the gear lever etc (depends on the model)

Yup, and my new Ford Ecosport has the same feature. It's a bitch for parking in car parks in Thailand.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My 2011 Fiesta can be put into neutral. Have to stop, put it in Park, remove the key, then lift up a small flap near the gear lever and push a button in to override the shift lock.

Your's doesnt have this?

Yeah, it's not the same as the Fiesta. My niece also has a 2013 Fiesta with your feature, and most Japanese cars have that feature (not sure if 2014 Japanese cars still have that?). The Eco-Sport is an all new model and I guess the Ford engineers had a mission to defeat double parking in Thailand. Actually, maybe I'm just dense, but I've used the search function through the pdf owners manual, and there is nothing, and then called the dealer and he said yeah, there is some hidden panel or something, so I felt around behind the gearshift and maybe there is a little flap, but I sure can't figure it out. You can put the car in neutral, then turn off the engine, but the problem is that the security system won't allow you to lock the car then. I imagine this, like many changes has to do with safety lawsuits where somebody screwed up, the car ran over someone in neutral, and now our double parking party is over.

I cant' be bothered to dig deeper, I'll just let the dealer show us at the first service appointment.

With Bm's mentioned couldn't resist it, good laugh for though's who haven't heard before.

Car_complaint.mp3

Parking your 2013 Ford Ecosport Thailand's Titanium model in neutral can be done!
'Parking in neutral is NOT possible we're are told on the review websites', yet... I can park in neutral by pushing the ignition button while in neutral to stop the engine.

Note: another local Ecosport owner said I might have to keep my foot on the break to do so (I didn't) or put your foot on the break to move from park to neutral (this didn't work for me with the ignition off).

Happy Mall-Parking all, you should now be able to get to the movies on time.

In answer to the OP's actual question:

I have never heard of any law, anywhere, that requires manufacturers design their auto transmissions like you ask.

In most countries you would be legally required to engage the handbrake when the car is parked/unattended though.

This whole topic just illustrates how lazy people are. Double park so they do not have to walk 50 or 100 meters more. Heaven Forbid. I always park right beside a concrete post. Cuts my chances of being hit by some yokel by 25%