US homeowner shoots German exchange student dead

[inzman]

I can't believe the ignorant morons on here defending the shooter. A kid walks into an open garage looking to steal some beer. He gets blasted away with a shotgun indiscriminately for it. He showed no violent propensity and did not pose a physical threat to anybody. And yet there are less than human posters defending the shooter, god dammit it's a kid! In an open garage. Where has all the humanity gone. I am sorry to be part of this human race. You defenders of murder should be ashamed of yourself. Imagine it was your teenage son!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

Sir you are totally wrong in your assumption. And it is called the right of the people to keep and bear arms. We all see harm in these types of actions. As my signature reads, We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics. But we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.

But I see you do support gun violence yourself and see no harm in rounding up people and shoting them. I would classify this as a trigger happy individual or in your own words a wacko.

I don't see how shooting a gun inside your own home, blindly or at a target can be considered reckless.

(I am assuming you have checked where any family members are first)

I agree different with someone in your garden, but they weren't in the garden.

If you enter someone elses home, without permission, you are guilty of something.

Enter my house at 12:30am (in US or Thailand) as an intruder, you will likely be shot, I will likely go free.

For those who say only a garage, most garages in the USA have connecting doors to the house, burglars often enter via the garage, where they can break into the house at their leisure. Don't know why the guy was arrested, suspect it's because the intruder was a foreign national. Due process will be served and the shooter will go free. I don't know what countries you all come from, but in Thailand and the USA, intruders can be shot and killed. The intruders know that in advance.

[Thaiready]

Here is an article from a local newspaper with a lot of details. Of course as always there are conflicting stories as there are in this article. It indicates the shooter and his comon law wife set a trap in the garage for an intruder and left the door open. Stupid is as stupid does. When someone does this the outcome is predictable. In my opinion they and the two intruders are all culpable. The intruders went into the garage at 12:30am. It apears that none of the four people were endowed with much commom sense. If I was on the jury I would vote to send the shooter and his comom law wife to prison and a five year suspended sentence for the other intruder who ran away.

I have no issues with shooting someone who breaks into my house with the intent to harm me and/or my family but this intent needs to be established first. A person should never start shooting randomly in the dark just because their house has been burglarized previously. The boys boys were wrong for going in the garage but the couple commited a bigger wrong by setting a trap and shoting the intruder without just cause.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-man-charged-with-deliberate-homicide-in-teen-s-shooting/article_f7551102-cf0e-11e3-9619-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

key word "Intruder".....had it been my home 44 mag 240 JHP

[richard10365]

I know where my house is and I know the other houses are not mine. I know that if I walk into another house I am trespassing and breaking the law. As gun crazy as the Americans are, its pretty stupid to go onto someone's property and take something that is not yours. If this is what happened then it is the fault of the student. If this is not what happened, maybe there should be an investigation.

[ChoakMyDee]

I don't get all the bleeding hearts here. The kid had no business going into someone's house. That is clearly trespassing and he had bad intentions. If he needed a drink badly, why didn't he knock on the door and ask for one? He brought it on himself. By the way, I am not a gun nut and I am all for gun control but if I had a gun in that situation I would be tempted to shoot the guy too.

[americaninbangkok]

Justifiability aside... was it worth it for the homeowner, in the end?

Certainly no one will <deleted> with him/his house again, true.

And he gets to deal with this mess in his head for a while. Enjoy.

Frankly, I'd be ok minus a few beers and a lawnmower.

But spending even one night in jail awaiting a judicial hearing?

No thanks, not worth it.

[blazes]

Oh but wait.....it's not guns that kill....only people do that. (At least, that's what the Ministry of Propaganda says).

[metisdead]

This is on thaivisa because........?

Because this is the World News section of the forum.

[thailampang2012]

Here is an article from a local newspaper with a lot of details. Of course as always there are conflicting stories as there are in this article. It indicates the shooter and his comon law wife set a trap in the garage for an intruder and left the door open. Stupid is as stupid does. When someone does this the outcome is predictable. In my opinion they and the two intruders are all culpable. The intruders went into the garage at 12:30am. It apears that none of the four people were endowed with much commom sense. If I was on the jury I would vote to send the shooter and his comom law wife to prison and a five year suspended sentence for the other intruder who ran away.

I have no issues with shooting someone who breaks into my house with the intent to harm me and/or my family but this intent needs to be established first. A person should never start shooting randomly in the dark just because their house has been burglarized previously. The boys boys were wrong for going in the garage but the couple commited a bigger wrong by setting a trap and shoting the intruder without just cause.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-man-charged-with-deliberate-homicide-in-teen-s-shooting/article_f7551102-cf0e-11e3-9619-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

It is clear that the homeowner was motivated to shoot somebody setting a trap, in a country where you can get a police response to a burglary call in minutes. He also was stupid, because if its was a real burglary, he can be the one dead now. He deserves go to jail.

[Pimay1]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

Sir you are totally wrong in your assumption. And it is called the right of the people to keep and bear arms. We all see harm in these types of actions. As my signature reads, We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics. But we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.

But I see you do support gun violence yourself and see no harm in rounding up people and shoting them. I would classify this as a trigger happy individual or in your own words a wacko.

I don't see how shooting a gun inside your own home, blindly or at a target can be considered reckless.

(I am assuming you have checked where any family members are first)

I agree different with someone in your garden, but they weren't in the garden.

If you enter someone elses home, without permission, you are guilty of something.

Enter my house at 12:30am (in US or Thailand) as an intruder, you will likely be shot, I will likely go free.

For those who say only a garage, most garages in the USA have connecting doors to the house, burglars often enter via the garage, where they can break into the house at their leisure. Don't know why the guy was arrested, suspect it's because the intruder was a foreign national. Due process will be served and the shooter will go free. I don't know what countries you all come from, but in Thailand and the USA, intruders can be shot and killed. The intruders know that in advance.

I know where you are coming from and these boys were certainly guilty of entering this premise without permission. I am in no way defending their actions. And the boy that ran away said they wanted a drink. I don't believe that for one second. You don't go into someones garage at 12:30am to get a drink.

I do have a problem with the man and woman setting a trap and leaving the door open and because he was heard to say a few days before the incident “I’m just waiting to shoot some (expletive) kid,” It is because of the trap and him making this statement that I have issues with this. And again even though the door was open the boys had no business going in the garage. As you say the shooter will probably go free.

As I said in a previous post I have no problem protecting myself or my family if there is an intruder. Like you said he or they would probably get shot. But if at all possible I would try to identify it was an intruder and here is why. When I was young I was a shot first and ask questions later guy. My brother came to visit and the night he left, he left a pair of his shoes at my house. He had a house key. This was long before the cell phones. About an hour after he left my family and I were sleeping. My brother didn't want to wake us up so he tried to silently opened the door and came in to get his shoes. I heard the door open, and reached for my weapon. All the lights were out. I stepped into the den, turned on the light and came within a fraction of a second of shooting my brother before I realized it was him. Thus my reasoning of trying to identify an intruder before shooting them. I realize this is not always possible and there is a risk of bodily harm by the intruder. As the old saying goes, every tub must set on its own bottom.

Please excuse any typos.

[NeilSA1]

South African criminals have illegal weapons galore, while the citizens have either handed in their weapons or are too afraid to use them ito the current laws.

[Pimay1]

In the house where I was raised in Australia, every house had at least 3 guns. A 303 that the old man bought home from the war. A single or double barrel shotgun and a .22 rabbit gun for the kids to learn with.

We never, ever, had any cause to even think about shooting people for any reason whatsoever.

Since then, and Martin Bryant, they have taken the guns away and now every maniac frightens anyone whenever they like.

You don't take guns away from criminals. They will always have them. You only take guns away from people who should be able to defend themselves but have no right at all.

Just my opinion. Maybe not yours.

I agree. Here's what happened to crime in Chicago after Illinois finally passed a concealed carry law. On July 9, 2013, a bill to recognize Illinois gun owners’ right to carry concealed firearms was passed by both chambers of the state Legislature. Illinois became the last state in the nation to allow public possession of concealed guns. Gun control advocates warned that high-crime areas, like Chicago, would only see more violence if residents were allowed to carry guns in public. During the first week of April the Chicago Police Department announced that the city experienced its lowest murder rate since 1958 in the first quarter of 2014. There were 6 fewer murders than the same timeframe in 2013 — a 9 percent drop — and 55 fewer murders than 2012. there were reportedly 90 fewer shootings and 119 fewer shoting victims compared to last year. There have also been 222 fewer shootings and 292 fewer shooting victims compared to the first quarter in 2012.

All crime is down 25 percent from 2013 and police say they have confiscated over 1,300 illegal guns in the last three months.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't get all the bleeding hearts here. The kid had no business going into someone's house. That is clearly trespassing and he had bad intentions. If he needed a drink badly, why didn't he knock on the door and ask for one? He brought it on himself. By the way, I am not a gun nut and I am all for gun control but if I had a gun in that situation I would be tempted to shoot the guy too.

I mostly agree with you, but if the shooter left the garage open, on purpose, to tempt someone to come in, that seems to be crossing a line to me. Someone who would usually not do anything other than a petty crime might have been tempted to see what was in there. If the kid actually broke into his house, that is a horse of a different color.

[catinthehat]

If his garage was locked - the article does not say - and the student broke in, wouldn't the responsibility be the kid's?

I don't think it has to be locked, although laws vary state to state. Here's an excerpt from Montana's constitution:

STATE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION

“The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.”

Article 2, Section 12.

LINK

(I might add that Montana will issue a concealed handgun license to anyone with a clean record.)

In the US state of Colorado there is a statute called the "Make My Day Law". Essentially it states that when any home or business owner is threatened within the con fines of their property that they have the right to use whatever means to protect the well being of same. This came into effect as the result of a shopowner who after repeated breakins installed a shotgun with a trip wire and killed a robber in the act of breaking into his property. When the armed intruders body was dicovered inside the property the shop owner was cleared of any charges.

[catinthehat]

The kid broke into his house. The man was protecting his family. Itnisnlegal in the us to protect ur family if someone breaks into ur home. So funny how u hypocrites complain. What would u all do if a person has broken into ur home and u have a family to protect. U just let him walk in and do as he wishes? Plsssss. Put urself in his shoes before u make make and state stupid opinions.

Not really big on reading are you Billy?

+ 1 Another bleeding heart hypocrite running his mouth.

Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

[impulse]

I'm shocked that the guy was charged. If the intruder was within the garage then the homeowner was within his rights to protect his family and property. There are many legal precedents to support his actions.

I am a gun owner, and a supporter of gun ownership rights.

But if the story reads true- that is, he deliberately attracted a burglar, then opened fire into a totally dark garage without seeing what or who he was shooting at, the guy was just plain wrong.

As for protecting his family, they were safely ensconced in their home and he deliberately left the safety of his home to confront the guy in the garage.

His wife deliberately left her purse in plain sight to draw in a burglar. That's a lot like going down to the local bar, taunting a drunk to pick a fight, then shooting him when he does react- "to protect my life".

And, if the article reads true, they actually set out to shoot an (expletive) thief that had hit their home recently, not to protect their property. That sounds more like vengeance than legitimate protection of family and property.

This will play out in court, and it will be interesting to see the consequences, and get the rest of the story.

[unanimosity]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

There are gun laws all over the country, what are you being so mindless about? The strictest gun control locations in the USA continue to have the highest casualties by people with guns, not by guns, because criminals, not guns, are free to perpetrate their crimes against an unarmed citizenry.

How anybody could be so mindless and deluded to ignore this reality in favor of some farfetched fantasy that any criminals or mentally ill people are going to obey laws--that are already proven to be not only ineffective, but contributory to casualties--defies all logic, common sense, and factual data.

You are buying in to the illusion without thinking, because taking guns away from law abiding citizens to reduce gun casualties is the same as trying to reduce drunk driving deaths by taking cars away from sober drivers.

[Scott]

My condolences to his biological family and to his host family. What a tragic end to a young life.

[dao16]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

Nope.

I am from there. People are into their guns.

[dighambara]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

Look to Thailand first...!!!

In the US all gun laws are in violation of the Federal Constitution which guarantees 'the right to keep and bear arms without infringement'.

That said - common sense prevails.

That said - countries with strict gun laws have more gun crime than the US: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms

If you check the link you will discover that Thai deaths by gun are 2 1/2 times US deaths - BY NUMBER..!!.

The US has nearly 6 times the population, nearly everyone may own a gun (required in a few communities) and a handful of states have no restrictions on concealed carry.

[Keoni]

If his garage was locked - the article does not say - and the student broke in, wouldn't the responsibility be the kid's?

I don't think it has to be locked, although laws vary state to state. Here's an excerpt from Montana's constitution:

STATE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION

“The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.”

Article 2, Section 12.

LINK

(I might add that Montana will issue a concealed handgun license to anyone with a clean record.)

In the US state of Colorado there is a statute called the "Make My Day Law". Essentially it states that when any home or business owner is threatened within the con fines of their property that they have the right to use whatever means to protect the well being of same. This came into effect as the result of a shopowner who after repeated breakins installed a shotgun with a trip wire and killed a robber in the act of breaking into his property. When the armed intruders body was dicovered inside the property the shop owner was cleared of any charges.

Just to clarify...The law in Colorado came to pass because before that the law was not as clear about the homeowners or shop-owners rights in the use of deadly force.

The "Make My Day Law" made clear that a homeowner/shop-owner must have a "reasonable belief that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or receiving great bodily injury..." before using deadly force.

The law includes a section on using force to protect property. Basically clarifying that the use of reasonable force to protect property is ok, but use of deadly force is limited to the same reasons indicated in the section of using deadly force in your home, i.e. you must feel you or another is in imminent danger...

I lived in Denver, Colorado at the time. If I remember correctly, before that the law was not clear about the use of deadly force. I don't think it included the "imminent threat" language, which I think is why he was cleared of charges.

[tomhell]

Can someone explain to me why the Americans so obsessed with guns?

I think it´s clear for everyone, when more people have a gun it´s more likely that people get hurt or die.

I don´t want to live in a society with armed citizens.

Are the Americans more paranoid and has it something to do with the media?

Maybe American Culture is different?

[ravip]

Ooooh... so people outside of Thailand own and know how to shoot?

And they learn quite young?

[whaleboneman]

Baad Kaarma.

Lucky it wasn't his kid crawling into the garage or a cop investigating an open garage door with a purse visible.

No one deserves to be executed for theft.

[Thaifever]

The American constitution's 2nd amendment is the right to bear arms. Not for hunting, not for sport, or any reason other than tyranny (not tranny as some thaivisa posters may get confused with). Before I understood just how corrupt the more powerful governments of the world (American, British, Canadian, Australian, European) are, I bought into Michael Moore's propaganda to some degree. Before I realized how totalitarian our countries have become upon their citizens, I wondered why Americans were so obssessed with owning guns. Since taking the effort to educate myself on both sides, I am completely, FOR, gun ownership and keeping the power of a country within it's people. America may have more gun violence than some, but one who doesn't have a gun, will pick up a knife. We had multi stabbings in Canada recently at a house party where 5 people were killed by one crazy with a knife.

My point? Educate yourself before condemning Americans on their guns laws, they were put there for a reason. These laws were put there based on history, and ACTUAL tyranny within the United States during the civil war. Just because you don't want to own a gun and defend yourself and your family, neighbors, city, state, country, doesn't mean your neighbor should not have that right.

[BadBouy]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Montana 1 person for every 6 sq miles. this is not NYC or the south side of Chicago. People in Montana only carry a pistol so they have something to shoot while they get a real gun.This is the last of the wild west absolutly beautiful country where you carry to protect yourself from wild life and to supplement your food supply. As for robbers who return multiple times F'em. Victim of house break will be aquitted dirt nap for perp perfect. Laws in your country do not apply here if you do not like it there are plenty of other places. You might just want to know a little about a place and it's inhabitants before you criticize it.

Drunk teen who stumbles into your yard does not equate to some one who habitually robs your home. I'm sure the drunk teen pissed himself when confronted. Your my hero! If only we could clone you the world would be a safe place once and for all.

[balo]

The kid broke into his house. The man was protecting his family. Itnisnlegal in the us to protect ur family if someone breaks into ur home. So funny how u hypocrites complain. What would u all do if a person has broken into ur home and u have a family to protect. U just let him walk in and do as he wishes? Plsssss. Put urself in his shoes before u make make and state stupid opinions.

So its ok to shoot in the dark 4 times with a gun , with the intention to kill a potential burglar ? This is not trying to defend your home , its just another stupid man with a gun in the US .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The kid broke into his house. The man was protecting his family. Itnisnlegal in the us to protect ur family if someone breaks into ur home. So funny how u hypocrites complain. What would u all do if a person has broken into ur home and u have a family to protect. U just let him walk in and do as he wishes? Plsssss. Put urself in his shoes before u make make and state stupid opinions.

So its ok to shoot in the dark 4 times with a gun , with the intention to kill a potential burglar ?

In your own home, I would say yes, and so would most US judges and juries.

[inzman]

Wow, so the majority of posters believe that the penalty for trespassing or teen burglary should be to have your head blown off. I am sure glad I don't live in the us anymore. When I was a lad we snuck into a garage once or twice and stole some pop out of the fridge. Thank god I am still alive. Death penalty for teens sneaking into your garage? I don't want you guys as friends,neighbors or acquaintances. This is a sick world we live in.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Wow, so the majority of posters believe that the penalty for trespassing or teen burglary should be to have your head blown off. I am sure glad I don't live in the us anymore. When I was a lad we snuck into a garage once or twice and stole some pop out of the fridge. Thank god I am still alive. Death penalty for teens sneaking into your garage? I don't want you guys as friends,neighbors or acquaintances. This is a sick world we live in.

Same laws in Thailand, lots of Thai home owners with guns (almost everyone I know).