Thailand visa: Crackdown banning 'walk-in visa runs' to begin August 13

[JohnThailandJohn]

While a pain in the rear, it doesn't compare to what most Thais have to go through to visit most of our home countries.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I don't really understand why people like the 38 year old friend of yours think they have or should have a right to stay just because they have a bit

of cash in the bank.

If he wanted to work, open a business and employ people, pay taxes and genuinely contribute in a meaningful way there would be legitimate routes to stay, and even PR and citizenship if he wanted it.

Too many people here seem to have the attitude - I have cash, am white, and therefore entitled.

Maybe it would help if one with some money could come to Thailand for investing and paying taxes while retaining the investment in their true name and having rights, not just vexation. As it happens in the civil countries of the world.

It is you and the other that liked your trite false and sad post that comes with an attitude, namely the one of old, retired pompous Thai apologists that are happy to be exploited.

Investment Visa http://www.thaivisa.com/investment-visa.html

[Rumblecat]

Doesn't the money need to have been held for three years already to qualify for one?

[JohnThailandJohn]

"However, please make sure that you are in possession of a passport valid for at least six months, a round-trip air ticket, and adequate finances equivalent to at least 10,000 baht per person "

So a tourist only needs 10.000 bht a month , while somebody retired needs 65.000 bht pr month .

That actually makes sense, in a Thai way. You can't understand, because you're not Thai. But you can find an apologist here any time of the day.

It really is not comparing Apples to Apples. One is cash on hand and the other is money in a Thai bank. One is asking to show you have funds here in Thailand to support yourself (or equivalent income) to support yourself over the next year and the other is showing you have some cash entering the country and didn't spend every dime to get here and will need to head out of the airport and need to be up to no good first thing in order to support yourself.

As for the cash one ... I doubt anybody who wasn't suspicious to immigration has ever been asked to show this. Keep in mind Immigration has the to refuse you entry even if you have a valid visa and everything is perfectly in order and legal ... pretty much the same across the globe.

[ignis]

Still not clear re after mid August…

My Cousin and husband are coming for 6 weeks, most is already booked, they use me as a base, so can travel light in Asia.. are going to KL for 2 days, going to Hanoi for 3 days, going on a 3 day dive boat from Burma, there still looking at maybe going to do the Temples in Cambodia for 3 days or to H.K...

Others have come and done the same sort of thing traveling to 3 or 4 countries, long way to come so see as much as possible, as it most likely is a one off trip.. others have never had a problem as they can show they have a flight to leave Thailand within 14 days or before.

Is this new thing now they must get a Visa ? and then get some sort of re-entry ? to cover 6 weeks and 3 or 4 exists and re entries ?

A Visa + Multi entry re-entry would cost another £ 100 each + all the messing around getting a Visa and messing around getting a Re-entry thing here

[Mario2008]

They look at the whole picture. If they can show a trvale itinary and a ticket home at the end of the travel plans, they should be classified as genuine tourists and be OK.

But right now nobody knows how it works out in practise.

[hawker9000]

Not that it's my cup of tea, but what the heck is the problem with some guy (who's self-funded, not a criminal, not working, not attending classes, not married, no family in Thailand, under 50, entirely solvent but not a fatcat investor...) simply wanting to live in Thailand? What kind of visa SHOULD he have? No argument that back-to-back 30d exemptions aren't really proper, but back-to-back tourist visas aren't really either. Just not to be allowed (until he turns 50); that's it? What problem does such a person pose for Thailand, Thais, or other foreigners? If you're inclined to say Thailand just doesn't want him as a resident and that's its right, fine. But then don't try and make the case that this is anything beyond simple exclusionary/protectionist policy. Thailand certainly has the right to make & enforce such policies, but don't try & persuade me that it's some big moral issue in the same class with criminal activity, welfare fraud, sex tourism, etc, AND that Thailand doesn't have much more attention-worthy problems it should be concerning itself with.

And from a beurocractic point of view, what's the difference on paper between the profile you are suggesting and the profile of a foreigner who is working illegally if all your doing is crossing a border and getting a stamp?

Tourist visas are not that hard to get, they're just tracked better and gives them an opportunity to ask the right questions.

It is protectionist... protecting jobs for thais and making sure people are in the system and paying taxes.. and so it bloody well should be. EVERY other country that finds itself a desirable place to live does the same and EVERY western country has a much higher burden of proof!

and as for "Thailand doesn't have much more attention-worthy problems it should be concerning itself with" ... umm, not if you're the department of immigration, no.

The difference is: one's actually working illegally while the other is NOT!!! Duh! (Nor doing anything else wrong.)

An unbelievable question.

[A12341]

I really need to know, did the immigration officials at Mae Sai get the memo that the changes are effective immediately or on Aug. 12? I need to know before I get on the bus for Mae Sai tomorrow... My Non-imm O visa is expiring and it turns out I likely won't be able to extend it at my local Immigration Office...

[Mario2008]

If your non-O is expiring, the border run would be your first visa exempt entry and thus not a problem.

[A12341]

If your non-O is expiring, the border run would be your first visa exempt entry and thus not a problem.

Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm still not sure if it's one visa exemption allowed or three, but I'll be relieved to get one right now...

[MadDog2020]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

Mango Bob, why are you so angry? Did someone piss in your coffee this morning?

Cross border traffic is key to many local economies on both sides of the borders. By this announcement, you must take into account the "foreigner locals" from across the border that come into Thailand to shop, deliver goods, or visit families. And reality should hit home, let's see ALL of the border countries deny Thai's access to their countries. Let's even escalate this into building a new BERLIN wall around Thailand or a KOREAN demilitarized zone and prevent families from seeing each other at all. How far do you really want to take this.....

Now talk ASEAN, why establish these rules at all when they will clearly be outdated by the rules associated with the AEC agreements.

But then we all really know the truth about how the Thai people really think......"it's the Thai way or the highwa

it has nothing to do with neighbouring countries, only with the bums who come here on a 30 day VISA FREE entry and stay for a year. thats the issue, nothing else. and im certain his coffee was nice and had no piss in it.

Well....you are certainly wrong about that one. It has nothing to do at all with the bums that "stay for a year". It has to do with the those that want to be on a current visa and not overstay.

Maybe your coffee had a bit of the yellow stuff too.

[Dee Kwa]

People are realy kidding themselves if they think that they will not be affected on a multiple entry non imm or tourist visa. Visa runs on multi-entry visas are not in the spirit of immigration policy. The authorities didn't create multiple entries so people could walk over the bridge and turn back around. People on multi-entry visas will be the next to be hit.

[ignis]

Will all these Mini Bus drivers that suddenly lose all there customers just sit back and take it ?

[Mario2008]

Will all these Mini Bus drivers that suddenly lose all there customers just sit back and take it ?

Instead of border runs, they might do visa runs.

But for some border run companies, such as to Mai Sai and Mae Sod it will mean less business. Visa run companies on the other hand will do more business.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What's the prevailing wisdom on this question:

Should anyone doing a visa-exempt entry right now, even if it's their first one such as after an expiring non-Imm O visa, still make sure to be carrying a a] 20,000 baht in cash, b] evidence of their accommodation, and c] evidence of their onward travel, if possible?

Back in my visa exempt days, I never at arrival carried 20K in cash, strictly out of a safety perspective. And through many (not out-in) visa exempt entries, I never once was asked by Immigration about any of those things. But, that was then... This is now.

[Mario2008]

I presume you are talking about the case of the Russian woman being denied entry. In her case the lack of funds and lack of a ticket out within 30 days were used as a formal excuse to deny her entry. But even if she would have had them, she would problably denied entry.

Persons that are not suspected of abusing the visa exempt entry will not be asked. It is more important that you show that you are not abusing the visa exempt entry scheme than that you can show 20,000 baht (and a ticket out at air borders).

[ubonjoe]

What's the prevailing wisdom on this question:

Should anyone doing a visa-exempt entry right now, even if it's their first one such as after an expiring non-Imm O visa, still make sure to be carrying a a] 20,000 baht in cash, b] evidence of their accommodation, and c] evidence of their onward travel, if possible?

Back in my visa exempt days, I never at arrival carried 20K in cash, strictly out of a safety perspective. And through many (not out-in) visa exempt entries, I never once was asked by Immigration about any of those things. But, that was then... This is now.

They will only ask for money and ticket if you have had some visa exempt entries already and they think you are living here on them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Joe, in the recent Phuket News interview with the Immigration commanding general, he specifically mentioned, as quoted below, the prospect of asking visa exempt entrants for proof of their accommodation if Immigration has any concerns. Yet you left that item out of your answer above...

“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials.

It would seem that a visa-exempt entrant right now, out of an abundance of caution, ought to also be carrying some evidence of their intended accommodation. Just in case.

[ubonjoe]

Joe, in the recent Phuket News interview with the Immigration commanding general, he specifically mentioned, as quoted below, the prospect of asking visa exempt entrants for proof of their accommodation if Immigration has any concerns. Yet you left that item out of your answer above...

“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials.

It would seem that a visa-exempt entrant right now, out of an abundance of caution, ought to also be carrying some evidence of their intended accommodation. Just in case.

I was replying to one question that would not apply to many others. Making a one time border run after having a multiple entry visa should not attract much attention.

[jennywren]

Luckily I was scared onto an O visa 12 years ago during a purge. Quite a lot of friends seem to be worrying about this, even ones like me on secure(ish) visas who wonder whats next.

Usually, these are knee jerk reactions so some event or other, or a result of an irate Immigration chief seeing the amount of people doing this.

The thinking stage comes after the enactment stage here and what will happen is this.

Many rich landlords and property developers will notice a reduction of interest in all the shiny new houses and Condos that they built with Westerners in mind. Few schools will feel the pinch and start losing money if there are not enough white faces at the school. Any teachers moving on will vacate rented (however cheap) property.

Visa run companies, related hotels and gambling islands, all owned by very rich thais - usually lawyers to boot will be the first to beat a path to immigrations doors and this has already happened.

Rich Thais will then start to look at what is behind this and it will go away or be reigned in. Horriffic as the touts are, they are useful dross to rich thais and they are lost (for sales) without them. Money will talk in the end. I've never known it differrent in my 20 years here.

[LivinLOS]

While a pain in the rear, it doesn't compare to what most Thais have to go through to visit most of our home countries.

Ohh this old routine is being rolled out again is it ??

Yes because we are such a drain on Thai social services and work here so often for so much more than wages available in our home countries.

Secondly, once there, they are made very welcome, given free language and integration lessons, and quite rapidly become full citizens, with voting, no employment restrictions, land ownership.. Etc etc.

I would far prefer that way of working through the system, wouldnt you ?? Of course they would have to lose their tourist industry to do so.

[LivinLOS]

People are realy kidding themselves if they think that they will not be affected on a multiple entry non imm or tourist visa. Visa runs on multi-entry visas are not in the spirit of immigration policy. The authorities didn't create multiple entries so people could walk over the bridge and turn back around. People on multi-entry visas will be the next to be hit.

While I dont think that shoe is going to drop in the next immediate future.

You can very much see a solid argument for all embassys and consuls issuing single entry only, and demanding all extensions are done incountry and therefore fitting the tighter criteria standardized country wide.

For the few people who genuinely visit for conventions and sales or export I am sure they could show this in some way to qualify for the multiple entry similar to how you now have a 3 year non imm B for the right people.

[Soutpeel]

Secondly, once there, they are made very welcome, given free language and integration lessons, and quite rapidly become full citizens, with voting, no employment restrictions, land ownership.. Etc etc.

I would far prefer that way of working through the system, wouldnt you ?? Of course they would have to lose their tourist industry to do so.

your not comparing apples with apples here are you.....your talking about legal migrants and nationalization here

The debate is about visa's not the same thing

your not talking about changing visa's policies in Thailand, your talking about changing legal immigration policies in Thailand, to very different subjects, you should not confuse the two.

Thailand does have a legalized migration program via the PR system, one only has to do 3 years working here above a certain salary threshold and paying tax and you can apply.

And as with all PR/migration policies the world over, there are requirements you need to comply with or you don't get in.

[LivinLOS]

Secondly, once there, they are made very welcome, given free language and integration lessons, and quite rapidly become full citizens, with voting, no employment restrictions, land ownership.. Etc etc.

I would far prefer that way of working through the system, wouldnt you ?? Of course they would have to lose their tourist industry to do so.

your not comparing apples with apples here are you.....your talking about legal migrants and nationalization here

The debate is about visa's not the same thing

your not talking about changing visa's policies in Thailand, your talking about changing legal immigration policies in Thailand, to very different subjects, you should not confuse the two.

Thailand does have a legalized migration program via the PR system, one only has to do 3 years working here above a certain salary threshold and paying tax and you can apply.

And as with all PR/migration policies the world over, there are requirements you need to comply with or you don't get in.

Well it is the same thing.. When everyone trots out the tired old 'but its hard for a Thai to go to the west' line.. Its chalk and cheese.

1) Its not that hard for a Thai to go to the west, if they can show the kind of self sustaining assets, the kind we need to have by default as there isnt any social services, so they are not a burden on the state.

2) Theres far less farangs coming to Thailand, making money here and sending it out of the country, to support families back in the west is there ??

3) How many westerners have been given citizenship in the last 5 years ?? Its all well and good to say 'it exists' as it only exists in theory, the system is halted no ??

Also.. Once they do go back, which isnt that hard a process, my sister in law just accomplished it in a few years, while making more money than she ever made in her life, enabling her to buy some land and 3 houses back here in Thailand !!! in just a few years there.. Once they do that, they are full naturalized citizens. She will be a due a pension, unemployment benefits, housing benefits, hospital cover, everything. In just a few years.

So its a tired old line.. I would gladly trade places and immigration processes, as I think any long term expat would.

[Soutpeel]

Secondly, once there, they are made very welcome, given free language and integration lessons, and quite rapidly become full citizens, with voting, no employment restrictions, land ownership.. Etc etc.

I would far prefer that way of working through the system, wouldnt you ?? Of course they would have to lose their tourist industry to do so.

your not comparing apples with apples here are you.....your talking about legal migrants and nationalization here

The debate is about visa's not the same thing

your not talking about changing visa's policies in Thailand, your talking about changing legal immigration policies in Thailand, to very different subjects, you should not confuse the two.

Thailand does have a legalized migration program via the PR system, one only has to do 3 years working here above a certain salary threshold and paying tax and you can apply.

And as with all PR/migration policies the world over, there are requirements you need to comply with or you don't get in.

Well it is the same thing.. When everyone trots out the tired old 'but its hard for a Thai to go to the west' line.. Its chalk and cheese.

1) Its not that hard for a Thai to go to the west, if they can show the kind of self sustaining assets, the kind we need to have by default as there isnt any social services, so they are not a burden on the state.

2) Theres far less farangs coming to Thailand, making money here and sending it out of the country, to support families back in the west is there ??

3) How many westerners have been given citizenship in the last 5 years ?? Its all well and good to say 'it exists' as it only exists in theory, the system is halted no ??

Also.. Once they do go back, which isnt that hard a process, my sister in law just accomplished it in a few years, while making more money than she ever made in her life, enabling her to buy some land and 3 houses back here in Thailand !!! in just a few years there.. Once they do that, they are full naturalized citizens. She will be a due a pension, unemployment benefits, housing benefits, hospital cover, everything. In just a few years.

So its a tired old line.. I would gladly trade places and immigration processes, as I think any long term expat would.

Its not the same thing and how has citizenship got into this ?...I am taking about permanent residence not citizenship

You say its not hard for Thai citizens in the west....how many arrive in the UK on a tourist visa or no visa, decide to stay permanently, visa run, set up an on-line business to finance their lives in the UK, not pay any tax, then ? numbers please...must be 10's of thousands ? yes

if you qualify for PR in Thailand you can get it....but the operative word is "qualify"

I would love to be a permanent resident of Monaco, but I can't I don't qualify...I don't have enough money as an "immigrant" to become a PR of Monaco, so what should I do petition the Grimaldi Family ? , and say hey Prince Albert II, your rules suck, I demand you change them so I can live here full time as a PR, you need to accommodate me ?...pretty sure he will jump to attention immediately..

(BTW the above paragraph is not an invitation to go off topic about the actual rules of living in Monaco, its just an example)

In effect the tone of a lot of the posts on this topic and lot of other similar topic is the same premise...and poster are saying, I don't qualify per your rules, and the rules suck, so I demand you change them to suit me.

To me the only Thai "visa" rule which I believe is "unfair" is the "married" visa, someone is married to a Thai national, I do believe someone should be given a bit more than what they are getting now all the rest are pretty fair

[Thaicoen]

Hi i have a NON-B and make a visa run every 3 months do i have also a problem?

[LivinLOS]

Its not the same thing and how has citizenship got into this ?...I am taking about permanent residence not citizenship

You say its not hard for Thai citizens in the west....how many arrive in the UK on a tourist visa or no visa, decide to stay permanently, visa run, set up an on-line business to finance their lives in the UK, not pay any tax, then ? numbers please...must be 10's of thousands ? yes

But that precisely my point, if there wasnt some rules to stop people claiming that economic benefit, how many would do so ?? Half of this country !!

There is no social state here to face costs, there is no economic advantage to working here. In fact Thailand does all it can to 'entice' high spenders to come here. Thats what a lack of visa for legal long stayers who dont work here is schizophrenic when looking at the TAT efforts.

if you qualify for PR in Thailand you can get it....but the operative word is "qualify"

And my point was, its far easier to qualify for PR in the west than it is in Thailand.. Actually allowing integration and naturalization and real rights, they dont tend to do that much here..

I would love to be a permanent resident of Monaco, but I can't I don't qualify...I don't have enough money as an "immigrant" to become a PR of Monaco, so what should I do petition the Grimaldi Family ? , and say hey Prince Albert II, your rules suck, I demand you change them so I can live here full time as a PR, you need to accommodate me ?...pretty sure he will jump to attention immediately..

(BTW the above paragraph is not an invitation to go off topic about the actual rules of living in Monaco, its just an example)

But dont you see.. If you were a net benefit to Monaco, if you earnt 10x the average monthly wage, if you imported cash lumps that were 10 times the normal Monacan (is that the word ?) annual salary each year.. You would have no problem. Your PR status would be given.

When a country wants that money, if you have that money, they make it easy for you. Your looking to find a rule which makes sense, keeping economic drains out of a country, and economic benefits in.. But the system being proposed here is to both want high spending visitors, as per the TAT, and at the sam time block high spending visitors.

In effect the tone of a lot of the posts on this topic and lot of other similar topic is the same premise...and poster are saying, I don't qualify per your rules, and the rules suck, so I demand you change them to suit me.

Not at all..

My main gripe is the lack of consistency in rules, the way there is no system of appeal, and where border guards make it up on the spot and are backed up by seniors in face saving instead of corrected to the system (see the case of the french family who came through phuket immi without a tsamp, went back to point this out, then got arrested and charged and deported) and the way in which these rules change monthly, without notice or planning.

But secondly any system must have logic, not just some patchwork adhoc system of badly designed rules. If Thailand wants high value economic contributors to bring money into the country and spend it, which is something the TAT spend billions to do I think, then they shouldn't treat those same people as criminals when they dont break any laws, dont work inside the country, etc. If Thailand genuinely doesnt want those economic advantages, then by all means, refuse them visas and send them away. But they cant have it both ways, they cant want the money but not the visitors. Its not a send us the cash and leave it at the airport proposition.

I fail to understand, why those with suitable assets (make it double retirement if they like) cant show 1.6 mil in the bank each year, and prove they are retired under 50. What possible issue does this cause Thailand ?? Why is someone 50 and a day, ok to retire, when hes maybe pinching pennies, when someone who is 40 and a multi millionaire, not good for Thailand.

Wheres the logic ??

[LivinLOS]

Hi i have a NON-B and make a visa run every 3 months do i have also a problem?

Jeez.. No !!

Visa exempt entries only !!

[ubonjoe]

Hi i have a NON-B and make a visa run every 3 months do i have also a problem?

No problem for you because you have a visa. Only those without a visa will have a problem.

[Thaicoen]

Hi i have a NON-B and make a visa run every 3 months do i have also a problem?

No problem for you because you have a visa. Only those without a visa will have a problem.

Thanks :-)