Two killed, 21 wounded in attack on Thai protest camp: officials

[billd766]

It is a shame hat some people have to die, but this was all brought on by suthep in the first place. hy you say? Because if he had kept his word (which he won't) when he said if she stepped down and did away with parlament he would stop. But NOOOO suthep is the greediest one of all the politicians. It wants it all HIS way And he say the hell with all Thai people

He was using the same tactics that Thaksin Shinawatra still uses as a perfect example.

How many times has Thaksin promised to walk away from politics in Thailand since 2006?

And how many times has he lied?

Edited May 15, 2014 by billd766

[Amavel]

Obviously, an angry mob in the minority, denying people's Democratic voting rights and representation, creates anger among the majority.

[casualbiker]

The Thai people want their country back.This group of a handful of protestors and some elite friends are commandeering their country and they have had enough. The extremists will be the first to speak with actions when words are not loud enough, but eventually the usurped majority will stand up and take back and defend what is theirs if it continues to be denied them.

So, PDRC, expect more, much more, if you continue to deny the people their democratic rights.

Yes indeed the people want their country back.

That is why the PDRC is out on the street.

They have had enough of the Thaksin run PT Govt which has enriched themselves at the expense of the country and the people.

Which tried to enact laws that would exempt themselves and their controller from crimes including more than 25,000 cases of corruption now before the NACC.

The people want free and fair elections without intimidation, threats and bribery where every candidate can campaign freely in every electorate.

They want politicians who do not have records of crime and corruption and will work for the people and the country and not for themselves.

They want reforms to the education system so their children can have a world class education with a chance to compete in the world.

They want a justice system that treats everyone as equal.

They want a police force that is fair and impartial.

They want a health system where everyone has the chance of the best care.

They want an end to the corruption which has increased to a massive scale in the last 3 years.

They want freedom of speech and a free press.

That and other freedoms of a true democracy is what the people want and they are getting bombed and shot at on a daily basis by the forces who want things as they are for their own benefit.

The ones who don't want the PT government are a minority. If you want to prove me wrong, lets take a vote. Oh wait, we already tried that and it was sabotaged by a small group. You want us to take your word for it and appoint an unelected government. That doesn't sound like a "true democracy" to me.

Everything else you said the people want is true, but neither side has in the past or intends to actually do anything much about it. People on both sides and everyone in between is "dirty". Suthep himself has a record of corruption. The Dems didn't do anything to make reforms when they were in power. The only reason they are on it now is because they are using it as a tool to get back into power (more power = bigger bribes). If they wanted to stop corruption, they should have started with themselves and made reforms when they were in power.

The fact is that Thaksin and others did a lot of good development for rural Thailand better than the Dems and the majority wants more of it. Thailand and Thais need to continue to grow in their democratic self awareness and reform in both mentality and laws organically together as a people. Reforms and laws mean nothing if they are not enforced or kept by those making them.

In the last full election 14 million voted for PTP. 16 million voted for other parties .. that's the truth of it!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I hope you realize that the Chartthaipattana Party, Chart Pattana Puea Pandin Party, Phalang Chon Party and Mahachon Party are part of the ruling coalition led by Pheu Thai Party. Which means 15 million voted for the PTP led coalition and 13 million voted for the others. The PTP led coalition still have the popular vote and the majority in parliament.

I do.. I hope you read the thread that I replied to were he said Pt government (no reference to coalition)

I also hope that you realize that some of those parties were also part of the Democrats coalition government!!

Talk about not doing your homework!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[elgordo38]

New elections will prove nothing. The Democrats will lose again like they always have. They will then keep the ruling party under a microscope waiting for their first misstep so that they can apply to the judiciary to have them thrown out of office and history will only keep repeating itself. Its class action warfare and the poor outnumber the rich 100 to 1

[billd766]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Thai people want their country back.This group of a handful of protestors and some elite friends are commandeering their country and they have had enough. The extremists will be the first to speak with actions when words are not loud enough, but eventually the usurped majority will stand up and take back and defend what is theirs if it continues to be denied them.

So, PDRC, expect more, much more, if you continue to deny the people their democratic rights.

Yes indeed the people want their country back.

That is why the PDRC is out on the street.

They have had enough of the Thaksin run PT Govt which has enriched themselves at the expense of the country and the people.

Which tried to enact laws that would exempt themselves and their controller from crimes including more than 25,000 cases of corruption now before the NACC.

The people want free and fair elections without intimidation, threats and bribery where every candidate can campaign freely in every electorate.

They want politicians who do not have records of crime and corruption and will work for the people and the country and not for themselves.

They want reforms to the education system so their children can have a world class education with a chance to compete in the world.

They want a justice system that treats everyone as equal.

They want a police force that is fair and impartial.

They want a health system where everyone has the chance of the best care.

They want an end to the corruption which has increased to a massive scale in the last 3 years.

They want freedom of speech and a free press.

That and other freedoms of a true democracy is what the people want and they are getting bombed and shot at on a daily basis by the forces who want things as they are for their own benefit.

So now you speak for all Thai people. Amazing the farang who is the voice of the Thai people.

Fortunately you only speak for yourself.

Not many listen and even fewer care what you have to say.

[Robby nz]

The Thai people want their country back.This group of a handful of protestors and some elite friends are commandeering their country and they have had enough. The extremists will be the first to speak with actions when words are not loud enough, but eventually the usurped majority will stand up and take back and defend what is theirs if it continues to be denied them.

So, PDRC, expect more, much more, if you continue to deny the people their democratic rights.

Yes indeed the people want their country back.

That is why the PDRC is out on the street.

They have had enough of the Thaksin run PT Govt which has enriched themselves at the expense of the country and the people.

Which tried to enact laws that would exempt themselves and their controller from crimes including more than 25,000 cases of corruption now before the NACC.

The people want free and fair elections without intimidation, threats and bribery where every candidate can campaign freely in every electorate.

They want politicians who do not have records of crime and corruption and will work for the people and the country and not for themselves.

They want reforms to the education system so their children can have a world class education with a chance to compete in the world.

They want a justice system that treats everyone as equal.

They want a police force that is fair and impartial.

They want a health system where everyone has the chance of the best care.

They want an end to the corruption which has increased to a massive scale in the last 3 years.

They want freedom of speech and a free press.

That and other freedoms of a true democracy is what the people want and they are getting bombed and shot at on a daily basis by the forces who want things as they are for their own benefit.

The ones who don't want the PT government are a minority. If you want to prove me wrong, lets take a vote. Oh wait, we already tried that and it was sabotaged by a small group. You want us to take your word for it and appoint an unelected government. That doesn't sound like a "true democracy" to me.

Everything else you said the people want is true, but neither side has in the past or intends to actually do anything much about it. People on both sides and everyone in between is "dirty". Suthep himself has a record of corruption. The Dems didn't do anything to make reforms when they were in power. The only reason they are on it now is because they are using it as a tool to get back into power (more power = bigger bribes). If they wanted to stop corruption, they should have started with themselves and made reforms when they were in power.

The fact is that Thaksin and others did a lot of good development for rural Thailand better than the Dems and the majority wants more of it. Thailand and Thais need to continue to grow in their democratic self awareness and reform in both mentality and laws organically together as a people. Reforms and laws mean nothing if they are not enforced or kept by those making them.

Yes they had an election on Feb 2nd and there was no disruption in PT heartland and still they only managed to get 8 million votes out of the votes cast with the no votes and abstentions outnumbering them, that would indicate that even where they could get their major support people don't want the same corrupt lot.

That 8 million is of course is with the well documented coercion that takes place in that area and without any real opposition.

Whether those who want change are a minority as you first claim then go on to say yes people do want change, is very debatable.

Those out on the street are only a small minority of those who want change, this is proven by the support we see given by those who cant be there for one reason or another but come out and donate and cheer whenever the protesters pass.

There is also a lot of support in the provinces throughout the country as you will see if you read posts from those who have families living in those areas.

Thaksin did indeed do things for the rural area but unfortunately went about enriching himself in the process.

If he had been an honest man with the country and the peoples interest at heart this would be a fantastic rich and harmonious country and he would still be PM with the support of all the country.

Unfortunately he is not and the country has to bare the wounds of his greed and lust for power.

The Dems in their short tenure also did a lot of good for instance in their price support scheme for farmers which did not break the bank, result in massive stockpiles of rice or lose Thailand its place as the worlds top exporter of quality rice.

They also did a lot for education which is something the reds on here either don't know about or ignore.

They also got corruption on the way down only to have it rocket up again in the last 3 years.

There are others, and this is in spite of having to take on the small parasite parties who were only out to get as much as they could for themselves and also to deal with the red riots instigated by Thaksin because he couldn't stand being out of power. Then there was the Cambodian attacks on the pretext of the small piece of land round the temple ruins.

Your last sentence is exactly correct and that is why reforms cant be left up to politicians for they have got to many vested interests.

To leave the start of a reform process till after an election means nothing constructive will be done no matter who gets into power.

A reform process must be started, with electoral reform or at least present laws enforced, before an election and all politicians committed to upholding reforms.

[arjunadawn]

A post inciting violence a an answer have been deleted

I am not disputing your mod position on that post, however, I think most people will agree that violence is going to happen one way or another, and the sooner they get it over with, the better. The country is not going to heal until after all hell has broken loose and they are left to pick up the pieces and burn the bodies of the dead. It's happened all over the world, still happens today, and is going to happen here.

The country is too divided and the hatred for each other is too great. Then add power thirsty elites, corruption, and "face" to the mix, and you have a recipe for disaster.

No one wants it, but it is unavoidable at this point. Though, I hope this is one of those times where I can come back later and admit I was totally wrong.

I don't dispute your observation, only your conclusion. As one who has seen years and years of war throughout he world I will tell you it is desperately vital to find peace with all our collective effort. War is not like television. It is not like a 2d war and peace book. Romance does not flourish at the end. The country does not just burn their dead and move on. War is an awful terrible horror. From hunger, to the terrified children huddling in basements, to fathers collecting grass to feed family. The dead of the streets and constant thunder and smoke and burning flesh! Please don't advocate something that could make sense on paper but in application touch the lives of millions.

Brother, your correct and it seems it's already happening, but i just can't conclude war is required to move forward. With a Khmer Rouge history next door, a CPT history right here that affirmed Maoism, a Thaksin/Khmer connection to a KR Captain running the country next door... I plead with you, do not accept war as a viable requirement for moving forward! Everyone who has ever lived through such horrors equally shared the presumption "not here."

Edited May 15, 2014 by arjunadawn

[webfact]

Savage Attack On PCAD Protesters Kills 3, Injures Dozens
By Khaosod English


Police inspect the site of an attack on PCAD demonstrators that killed 3 and injured dozens, 15 May 2014.

BANGKOK — At least three people were killed and 24 injured in a combined grenade and gunfire attack on an anti-government protest rally site in Bangkok early this morning.

Witnesses said the attack took place at around 2:50 a.m. near the Democracy Monument on Ratchadamnoen Avenue, where hundreds of supporters of the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD) have been camping in their bid to oust the government of acting Prime Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongphaisarn.

According witnesses, two loud explosions were heard near the monument, followed by sporadic bursts of gunfire lasting for "many minutes."

When the attack subsided, two people were found dead, and the wounded were promptly sent to hospital. The deceased victims were identified as Narayos Chanpetch, 21, and Somkuan Nuankanai, 51.

A third victim died from injuries at the hospital this morning, reports say.

The names of the injured have not been released, but police reports indicate that at least two women were among the wounded. The injuries appear to have been caused by firearm bullets and shrapnel from explosives, police say.

A police bomb squad later entered the area at around 6:00 a.m. to collect evidence of the attack, which took place metres away from tourist hot spot and backpacker haven Khaosan Road. One hotel on Ratchadamnoen Avenue was also reportedly damaged by the blast.

Pol.Cpt. Lertchai Puelongchai said police suspect that the perpetrators were armed with M79 grenade launchers and possibly M16 rifles. The suspects most likely arrived in several vehicles and launched their attack from Kok Wua Intersection before fleeing.

Several PCAD guards reported that they saw several vehicles make repeated turns around the protest site prior to the attack.

Shadowy militants have harassed PCAD protest sites at night several times over the past few months, resulting in a number of injuries and fatalities. The incident on Ratchadamnoen Avenue this morning is the deadliest since the grenade and gunfire attack on a PCAD rally in Trat province on 22 February, which killed one five-year-old girl and injured around 40 demonstrators.

The police have not arrested any suspects in connection with these attacks.

A total of 24 people, mostly civilians, have lost their lives in the sporadic violence that has plagued Thailand since the latest round of political turmoil erupted last November, according to Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's Erawan Centre.

Although many speculate that hardline members of the pro-government faction are behind the recent escalation of violence against PCAD protesters, a prominent pro-government activist has denied the allegation.

Speaking at a press conference at the pro-government rally on Aksa Avenue in western Bangkok, chairman of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Jatupon Prompan said the UDD is not responsible for the attacks on anti-government demonstrators in any way. He also urged the police to swiftly investigate the incidents.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1400132273&section=11&typecate=05


-- Khaosod English 2014-05-15

[EnglishJohn]

More non-violent protests by red-shirts.

Those who think the PDRC are doing this to themselves are watching too much red-shirt TV : only the truly dumb would believe such a thing. The only effect would be to discourage anyone joining the protests.

What sickens me the most is that it will make a fleeting headline as grenade attack number 70-something then we will get 10 more editorial comments about how bad the PDRC are for camping outside the media offices.

The press is a disgrace in Thailand.

[laurentbkk]

Police is too busy with visa run crack down .....

[rabas]

The shinas are losing their grip. The red government is gradually being kicked out. The big bad guy in Dubai is not a good loser. He will try to cause destruction and havoc as revenge for sending off his puppet government. Last time there were bombs a bullets and burning buildings. He will try the same this time.

The last time it was suthep that did all that. The guy that burned the building was a plant from suthep. check it out dude

Um, 40 buildings were burnt, busy guy that yellow fellow.

[wilcopops]

The shinas are losing their grip. The red government is gradually being kicked out. The big bad guy in Dubai is not a good loser. He will try to cause destruction and havoc as revenge for sending off his puppet government. Last time there were bombs a bullets and burning buildings. He will try the same this time.

it's not a TV show you know - there are no good guys/bad guys

[wilcopops]

those who think it is simply a good versus evil affair might look into Sutrhep's history before they jump to simplistic conclusions.

[doctorproc156]

Your fairytale jars with reality. You probably were not here at the time, but the PTP deputy house speaker was found to have made huge cash transfers from a bank inside parliament to the red shirt bomber that blew himself and half of his apartment block to smithereens. The conclusion is very simple, we all know who is doing the bombing at the PDRC rally, and no, it's not the PDRC bombing themselves!

Yes because, a traceable transaction from within the parliament house to a bomber to attack an unpopular movement would have been exactly what the PTP would have done.

[Bangmod]

Smelling civil war.

When the judges are just puppets and the police not allowed to make its job => only violence remains.

the police is allowed to do their job, but in decades have never acted in the interest of the people, only in the interest of money and corrupt politicians

[Pi Sek]

More non-violent protests by red-shirts.

Those who think the PDRC are doing this to themselves are watching too much red-shirt TV : only the truly dumb would believe such a thing. The only effect would be to discourage anyone joining the protests.

What sickens me the most is that it will make a fleeting headline as grenade attack number 70-something then we will get 10 more editorial comments about how bad the PDRC are for camping outside the media offices.

The press is a disgrace in Thailand.

It is my opinion that the 10 April 2010 incident at Kok Wua was started by UDD-affiliated Black Shirt M79 grenadiers, and the same armed element followed up by rifle fire from both ground-level and elevated positions. I feel it is highly likely that this slaughter was organised between senior UDD membership (Nattawut, Jatuporn, etc), Gen Seh Daeng and Thaksin.

So, if the Red Shirt leadership are happy to kill their own for media coverage and sympathy, I don't see it as massively unlikely that the PDRC would do the same.

[jaidam]

Your fairytale jars with reality. You probably were not here at the time, but the PTP deputy house speaker was found to have made huge cash transfers from a bank inside parliament to the red shirt bomber that blew himself and half of his apartment block to smithereens. The conclusion is very simple, we all know who is doing the bombing at the PDRC rally, and no, it's not the PDRC bombing themselves!

Yes because, a traceable transaction from within the parliament house to a bomber to attack an unpopular movement would have been exactly what the PTP would have done.

Agreed, it really defines arrogance doesn't it. After his boss bought a tame police force and intimidated the heck out of the judiciary, he really thought nobody would dare to feel his collar. He was wrong, although having said that in the years since his transactions came to light nothing has happened to him at all.

[Alwyn]

So Suthep's dream is being realized now. This is what he wanted, enough violence to motivate the army to step in. Now the red shirt clowns are giving him his wish a military coup/intervention is a step closer - or worse, a civil war. I still struggle to believe how these people can destroy a country with impunity. As for the guard getting shot? Well, the saying goes 'live by the sword, die by the sword' but it's still painful to see.

[coma]

Once again Chalerms predictions come true.

Just as well he is protecting the reds or they could also suffer casualties.

The DSI will no doubt leap into action and find the culprits just as quickly as the have done after all the previous attacks.

RIP the dead and hope for a quick recovery for the injured.

Blind Freddy could have made that prediction.

[a99az]

Smelling civil war.

When the judges are just puppets and the police not allowed to make its job => only violence remains.

True and I can smell it all the way over here in the UK. Like I predicted in other postings "a coup by 20th" not much longer now.

[RJF]

The only one interested in violence right now is the gangster Suthep and he has no scruples of arranging this attack on his own people to further his cause while he is still trying to provoke a coup with violent attacks on his own people.

The other side would gain nothing with such an attack.

What a piece of stupidity.

The violence is against the protesters by others.

The only one, as I have said many times , that (thinks he) can benefit from a coup is your hero Thaksin he can then say his legally elected Govt was once again overthrown by the military, international sympathy.

The armed reds will then come out and give him the civil war he so dearly wants.

Revenge, then after the country is devastated he will return the hero and peace maker to unite the people make them prosperous and the country will be so grateful they will make him president for life.

What dreams that man must have, right now he is having a nightmare for PT is finished.

If you really believe what you have posted then please explain how a coup and the reds coming out against it could possibly benefit Suthep.

Stupidity?

Nah, I don't know who did this and I am not making any claims but it does seem PDRC has more to gain from chaos than the reds - all the reds have to do to regain power is simply wait for the next election. A coup will benefit the likes of Suthep, just like it did 8 years ago. The reds coming out against it is irrelevant. It was the army vs the reds in May 2010 and that lasted less than a day. To show my total impartiality in this matter, I think that action was called for btw. The reds were illegally occupying the streets of Bangkok (like the PDRC were earlier this year) and they had ample warning. They should have done the same with the PDRC. Yet the courts ruled CAPO was 'not to obstruct traffic lanes' when dealing with the protesters (who were blocking major intersections). What a joke.

No bias on your side. The army has a coup straightens out a few things in the constitution calls an election Thaksin wins it. The next election Thaksin wins it. Then they call a third one and once again Thaksin wins it. All the time the country is going down hill. Corruption is booming and Thaksin is ruling from his castle in Dubai.

You liken the reds occupying the streets of Bangkok to the current PDRC of course you neglect to mention the reds were armed and firing rockets at civilian transit terminals along with invading hospitals. U tube is full of videos of them urging their followers to burn Bangkok down.

It is also full of videos of Suthep calling for no violence. But you are not biased.

Bull S

I can only see that what Suthep says and does are 2 completely different matters. We had a 'final battle' over 10 times for example. Explosives have been found in the PDRC abandoned strongholds, and I've seen them molesting people. There's a whole comedy going on on Thai language websites at the moment named 'don't move that cone' after various people have been molested after moving PDRC placed cones. But you conveniently forgot to mention all that .

I condemn violence from the reds as strong as violence from the PDRC. Neither has a crystal clean sheet. You are just fueling the fire by taking sides in this ridiculous Thai soap opera where anyone with common sense knows no one can claim a higher ground.

[NeilSA1]

The only one interested in violence right now is the gangster Suthep and he has no scruples of arranging this attack on his own people to further his cause while he is still trying to provoke a coup with violent attacks on his own people.

The other side would gain nothing with such an attack.

Utterly stupid troll comment. Innocents have died and you trot out this ridiculous insensitive nonsense. Shame on you.

[Thait Spot]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Smelling civil war.

When the judges are just puppets and the police not allowed to make its job => only violence remains.

Explain your police remark.

The rest is just cretinous

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I see nothing overly "Cretinous" about the comments. I don't particularly agree with them, but they are not over the top. Your comments however, seem to be mean spirited and "Cretinous", to coin a phrase...

Anyone countenancing violence is a cretin.

[Bluespunk]

Better take samples of the bomb residue and run it against all samples of past attacks, including the large stash of bomb making material found in Lumpini Park. We need to find the culprits before more people get hurt.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

are you implying that the protestors did this to themselves?

[Thait Spot]

Smelling civil war.

When the judges are just puppets and the police not allowed to make its job => only violence remains.

Explain your police remark.

The rest is just cretinous

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The military high command told the police not to take forceful action against the PDRC protestors.

It started back in November when multiple statements were made.

For example;

Explaining how a crowd of unarmed civilians was able to break through the main gate into the army compound, Gen. Prayuth said: “The army did not want to use any force and we didn’t view the protesters as enemies or opponents. They are actually Thais who have different political opinions.”

Thanyarat Doksone And Jocelyn Gecker, Associated Press | November 29, 2013

The police have been complaining that they are not allowed to take effective action. Remember the protest by the police in December when one of their officers was murdered?

BANGKOK, Thailand -- Thai police staged a protest Monday to show their frustration after weeks of dealing with aggressive and often violent anti-government demonstrators, with officers saying that the order for them to show restraint has left them vulnerable and humiliated.

About 500 police with family and friends gathered in a public square near the main protest camp in Bangkok, four days after a policeman was shot dead in a pitched battle with demonstrators who were trying to stop candidates from registering for February elections. Most police are allowed to carry only batons and riot shields, while selected officers are equipped with tear gas canisters and guns to fire rubber bullets. Orders to show restraint have resulted in police several times being trapped by demonstrators and forced to bargain for their release.

The Associated Press Published Monday, December 30, 2013 8:49AM

Are you saying that the police are unable to perform their function without violence?

I drive past the Chaengwattana protest area several times a week and I've never seen any police near by - east or sets of it or in the government complex itself

[jpeg]

Obviously, an angry mob in the minority, denying people's Democratic voting rights and representation, creates anger among the majority.

Did you not read the report of red shirts complaining they hadn't been paid their promised one thousand baht

[DubaiIsCalling]

The shinas are losing their grip. The red government is gradually being kicked out. The big bad guy in Dubai is not a good loser. He will try to cause destruction and havoc as revenge for sending off his puppet government. Last time there were bombs a bullets and burning buildings. He will try the same this time.

Yeah yeah. blame it again on Thaksin ONLY. And your short memory easily forgets before Thaksin was drinking Soya Milk from a bottle, Thailand was already a political chaos. Ousting him in 2006 was the dumbest mistake the PWRRTC (persons who really rule this country) made.

If you assume Thailand will be a balanced society few years after Thaksin has passed away or withdrawn from political activities, you must live in Utopia.

I hope he comes back soon.

[dwcrist]

The Thai people want their country back.This group of a handful of protestors and some elite friends are commandeering their country and they have had enough. The extremists will be the first to speak with actions when words are not loud enough, but eventually the usurped majority will stand up and take back and defend what is theirs if it continues to be denied them.

So, PDRC, expect more, much more, if you continue to deny the people their democratic rights.

Yes indeed the people want their country back.

That is why the PDRC is out on the street.

They have had enough of the Thaksin run PT Govt which has enriched themselves at the expense of the country and the people.

Which tried to enact laws that would exempt themselves and their controller from crimes including more than 25,000 cases of corruption now before the NACC.

The people want free and fair elections without intimidation, threats and bribery where every candidate can campaign freely in every electorate.

They want politicians who do not have records of crime and corruption and will work for the people and the country and not for themselves.

They want reforms to the education system so their children can have a world class education with a chance to compete in the world.

They want a justice system that treats everyone as equal.

They want a police force that is fair and impartial.

They want a health system where everyone has the chance of the best care.

They want an end to the corruption which has increased to a massive scale in the last 3 years.

They want freedom of speech and a free press.

That and other freedoms of a true democracy is what the people want and they are getting bombed and shot at on a daily basis by the forces who want things as they are for their own benefit.

The ones who don't want the PT government are a minority. If you want to prove me wrong, lets take a vote. Oh wait, we already tried that and it was sabotaged by a small group. You want us to take your word for it and appoint an unelected government. That doesn't sound like a "true democracy" to me.

Everything else you said the people want is true, but neither side has in the past or intends to actually do anything much about it. People on both sides and everyone in between is "dirty". Suthep himself has a record of corruption. The Dems didn't do anything to make reforms when they were in power. The only reason they are on it now is because they are using it as a tool to get back into power (more power = bigger bribes). If they wanted to stop corruption, they should have started with themselves and made reforms when they were in power.

The fact is that Thaksin and others did a lot of good development for rural Thailand better than the Dems and the majority wants more of it. Thailand and Thais need to continue to grow in their democratic self awareness and reform in both mentality and laws organically together as a people. Reforms and laws mean nothing if they are not enforced or kept by those making them.

Yes they had an election on Feb 2nd and there was no disruption in PT heartland and still they only managed to get 8 million votes out of the votes cast with the no votes and abstentions outnumbering them, that would indicate that even where they could get their major support people don't want the same corrupt lot.

That 8 million is of course is with the well documented coercion that takes place in that area and without any real opposition.

Whether those who want change are a minority as you first claim then go on to say yes people do want change, is very debatable.

Those out on the street are only a small minority of those who want change, this is proven by the support we see given by those who cant be there for one reason or another but come out and donate and cheer whenever the protesters pass.

There is also a lot of support in the provinces throughout the country as you will see if you read posts from those who have families living in those areas.

Thaksin did indeed do things for the rural area but unfortunately went about enriching himself in the process.

If he had been an honest man with the country and the peoples interest at heart this would be a fantastic rich and harmonious country and he would still be PM with the support of all the country.

Unfortunately he is not and the country has to bare the wounds of his greed and lust for power.

The Dems in their short tenure also did a lot of good for instance in their price support scheme for farmers which did not break the bank, result in massive stockpiles of rice or lose Thailand its place as the worlds top exporter of quality rice.

They also did a lot for education which is something the reds on here either don't know about or ignore.

They also got corruption on the way down only to have it rocket up again in the last 3 years.

There are others, and this is in spite of having to take on the small parasite parties who were only out to get as much as they could for themselves and also to deal with the red riots instigated by Thaksin because he couldn't stand being out of power. Then there was the Cambodian attacks on the pretext of the small piece of land round the temple ruins.

Your last sentence is exactly correct and that is why reforms cant be left up to politicians for they have got to many vested interests.

To leave the start of a reform process till after an election means nothing constructive will be done no matter who gets into power.

A reform process must be started, with electoral reform or at least present laws enforced, before an election and all politicians committed to upholding reforms.

Yes, Thaksin bent and broke rules to gain personally. What Thai or Thai politician doesn't? It is a bit dramatic to say "the country has to bare the wounds of his greed and lust for power." making it sound like that it was/is only his corruption that damaged the country. Corruption is rampant in every Thai party, ministry and bureaucracy. Thaksin was on top for a few years and his actions stood out. Many more politicians (both red and yellow) and elite "lobbyists" have and continue to plunder Thailand for much more and much longer than Thaksin ever did. He just did it the best for a few years.

There is no question that reforms are needed and that politicians should be held accountable to keep and uphold laws. But there is no reason why this can't happen after elections no matter who wins.

I ask again, if you are so sure that the majority wants a change and PTP no longer has their support, why not put it to a vote?

You see, the way that democracy works is kind of like a competition of political parties to serve the people as best as possible. The judges of this competition are the people and the way they count score is by voting in what is called an election. If a party serves well, the people will re-elect them. If a party serves poorly, the people will not re-elect them. The only way to know how well they are serving is to have elections. Right now the PDRC is behaving like a party that hasn't been serving as well and is a sore looser and says that they are the best no matter what the judges say and will now not allow the judges to choose like a toddler throwing a fit. If that is not the case than prove it, have an election.

I would also like to know the specific details of the reforms and their proposed implementation methods that you say must take place before an election and why. I understand that detailed proposals have not even been created, or at least I know they weren't a couple months ago. You cannot demand something that is not clearly defined. What they are demanding is a signed blank check and complete power.

I do indeed that believe that PTP has many problems and has lost some amount of popularity with its support base with the amnesty bill, rice scheme, etc. This would have been the perfect opportunity for the PDRC to shine by proposing detailed plans for reforms that would have clear benefits to all Thais. When the protests were about the amnesty bill, most of the country was behind them. But when they turned to dislodge the elected government to take power for undefined "reforms", they turned what were and could have been their allies into enemies. They could have put more into planning if it was really about reforms and not about just taking power.

[Old Man River]

This may be a silly question but can the military not just take charge and then get The Kings advice on how to proceed? That article by some academics on a temporary neutral government sounds like the best idea. Surely if it came down from the King himself people would stop all this madness?

I understand your frustration. It is the responsibility of the police to handle this. I believe Adul is interested in doing his job, but some think his seniors may not be. If the police can't handle this, then Prayuth can step in. He can help in the form of a civil action to back the police or call martial law into effect. Either way, this would not be a coup and would leave this up to the courts and politicians.

What you seem to be suggesting (or hoping for), is a coup. To the extent possible, it is always best to avoid a coup.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wellred]

This may be a silly question but can the military not just take charge and then get The Kings advice on how to proceed? That article by some academics on a temporary neutral government sounds like the best idea. Surely if it came down from the King himself people would stop all this madness?

I understand your frustration. It is the responsibility of the police to handle this. I believe Adul is interested in doing his job, but some think his seniors may not be. If the police can't handle this, then Prayuth can step in. He can help in the form of a civil action to back the police or call martial law into effect. Either way, this would not be a coup and would leave this up to the courts and politicians.

What you seem to be suggesting (or hoping for), is a coup. To the extent possible, it is always best to avoid a coup.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It's very sad to see events escalate in the way it has. I don't know much about the history of both parties. I'm just a regular joe who had enjoyed visiting this great country as a tourist. A coup would seem like the lesser of 2 evils and could force through reforms.