California gunman 'was filmmaker Peter Rodger's son'

morrobay · June 3, 2014

Ya all can talk about gun control until the cows come home. To prevent this from happening in malls, schools and elsewhere: The army, navy and national guard reserves could expand their military police units.Then these units could be deployed all over the above locations during active duty periods.

Since they will be armed with rifles these experts can stop criminals at long range if necessary.

ClutchClark · June 3, 2014

<snip>

As to lax gun control laws, the criminals aren't going to obey the law anyway, it's pretty well known that many, if not most of the crimes are committed with stolen weapons, no need for registration when you are buying out of a crack house or the trunk of a car. But, that is another fact you, and others choose to ignore...........

So, tell us; from whom are these criminals stealing their weapons?

Are they breaking into police , army, etc. armouries to steal them; or are they stealing their guns from individuals and gun shops who legally own them?

All of the above, plus individual home owners. But, if you guys were as knowledgeable as you think you are, I wouldn't have to tell you that. But, don't take my word for it, there are plenty of reports, from the FBI, other law enforcement agencies as well as the media.

Unfortunately, all we can do is take your word for it because Congress passed legislation in 2006:

"Under the law, investigators cannot reveal federal firearms tracing information that shows how often a dealer sells guns that end up seized in crimes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/23/AR2010102302996.html

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Cc,

Haven't you convinced,the cowboys and gunslingers yet?

NeverSure · June 3, 2014

Problem is, the daft buggers are doing it in reverse.
Check out what this whacko just signed in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/04/23/what-georgias-expansive-new-pro-gun-law-does/

It would be easier to help an alcoholic in denial than these people.

From the comments section on that page

max p

4/27/2014 7:46 AM GMT

......what could possibly go wrong by allowing guns in bars? Alcohol and firearms go together like biscuits and gravy. I'm sure the police will greatly appreciate all the "help" they'll now be getting. And the state can still stop Grandpa from driving when he has dementia but just how are they going to stop him from continuing to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights regardless of his mental condition ?

I assume that in Georgia it is illegal to drive a car if you are drunk or suffer from dementia; but it seems it is now legal to carry a gun when you are either, or even both!

Mate,

I just don't get it.

Exactly what I was thinking. Now these dullards want to throw alcohol into the mix. I mean as a police officer I would never have thought of picking my firearm up if I'd been drinking, yet these guys are taking their shooters to a bar.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The more I read, the more I think I'll give my next tour there, the miss. And the Darwin Award for 2014 goes to Georgia.

People who can legally carry into a bar have a license and they have been thoroughly vetted. Their blood alcohol level can't be more than .08 - same as driving. If they have any kind of criminal background including drunk driving or drugs they won't have that license. I've never heard of a problem in my state and I've been around a long time and we beat Georgia to this law.

I can legally carry into a school - grade school through college. But it's not guys like me who do the shootings. It's young troubled guys with a psychiatric history who are on some med - med I don't trust. Legally they wouldn't get a license and I doubt they have one.

If you want to go after drinkers go after the drivers because I've never heard of a bar shooting in my state but I personally knew people who were killed by a drunk driver.

I think your reactions are emotional rather than factual. The licensed, legal gun owners are not causing the problems.

As a responsible citizen, get a license and carry a concealed gun for a day. Your eyes will be opened. You will suddenly become the most polite person you've ever been. Someone crowds ahead of you in line? No problem, go ahead sir. Someone cuts you off while you're driving? No problem. Go ahead sir.

You've taken on a whole new responsibility and the last thing you want is confrontation, unless it's that once in a lifetime need to defend yourself or another person. And every day you hope that never happens, just as police officers go to work every day hoping like heck that never happens.

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Problem is, the daft buggers are doing it in reverse.

Check out what this whacko just signed in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/04/23/what-georgias-expansive-new-pro-gun-law-does/

It would be easier to help an alcoholic in denial than these people.

From the comments section on that page

max p
4/27/2014 7:46 AM GMT

......what could possibly go wrong by allowing guns in bars? Alcohol and firearms go together like biscuits and gravy. I'm sure the police will greatly appreciate all the "help" they'll now be getting. And the state can still stop Grandpa from driving when he has dementia but just how are they going to stop him from continuing to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights regardless of his mental condition ?

I assume that in Georgia it is illegal to drive a car if you are drunk or suffer from dementia; but it seems it is now legal to carry a gun when you are either, or even both!

Mate,

I just don't get it.

Exactly what I was thinking. Now these dullards want to throw alcohol into the mix. I mean as a police officer I would never have thought of picking my firearm up if I'd been drinking, yet these guys are taking their shooters to a bar.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The more I read, the more I think I'll give my next tour there, the miss. And the Darwin Award for 2014 goes to Georgia.

People who can legally carry into a bar have a license and they have been thoroughly vetted. Their blood alcohol level can't be more than .08 - same as driving. If they have any kind of criminal background including drunk driving or drugs they won't have that license. I've never heard of a problem in my state and I've been around a long time and we beat Georgia to this law.

I can legally carry into a school - grade school through college. But it's not guys like me who do the shootings. It's young troubled guys with a psychiatric history who are on some med - med I don't trust. Legally they wouldn't get a license and I doubt they have one.

If you want to go after drinkers go after the drivers because I've never heard of a bar shooting in my state but I personally knew people who were killed by a drunk driver.

I think your reactions are emotional rather than factual. The licensed, legal gun owners are not causing the problems.

As a responsible citizen, get a license and carry a concealed gun for a day. Your eyes will be opened. You will suddenly become the most polite person you've ever been. Someone crowds ahead of you in line? No problem, go ahead sir. Someone cuts you off while you're driving? No problem. Go ahead sir.

You've taken on a whole new responsibility and the last thing you want is confrontation, unless it's that once in a lifetime need to defend yourself or another person. And every day you hope that never happens, just as police officers go to work every day hoping like heck that never happens.

I will work backwards through your post.

Firstly, I was a Police Officer for over 2 decades, 23 years in total and carried a 'gun' everyday for almost that entire time. So I will leave the rest of that part of your post alone as it sort of answers all of that part.

Secondly, there is evidence to suggest that ALL people become effected by alcohol to a certain extent at levels 0.02 grammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. Of course one needs to fully understand what becoming effected actually entails. I am not suggesting that people become drunk at that level. After one consumes alcohol one of the very first things to suffer is fine motor skills. One of the most important fine motor skills for any driver/firearms controller would be their eyes, wouldn't you agree? Well its virtually the first thing to be effected in the human body after the consumption of alcohol. I could go on, but theres no need to get into a side issue over this. It would be 'opinion' of virtually every expert in the field on firearms that alcohol and firearms do NOT mix well.

I was amused watching some video footage shot in Georgia at the time of these laws being passed. There were several Men strutting around with various types of hand guns in their holsters and when I say strutting, I mean these guys were really strutting, they looked like the sheriffs from those olden western movies. Must make them feel very proud, such powerful big men. I witnessed this several times over the years with Rookie cops, strutting around with their shooters around their hips, swaggering as they walked bit comical to watch really and usually the novelty wore off for them the first time they received a punch in the face at a pub brawl or whatever.

All I can thank is my lucky stars that I wasn't raised in the states and that I never had to work as a Police Officer over there. The rate at which Police and other law enforcement officials are killed over there is very alarming. I mean, we are talking about some of the very best and well trained Police forces in the world, in the states, the very best, yet they are slaughtered often. What you all don't seem to understand when I write is, for me, every weapon out there is another weapon that could easily fall into the incorrect hands. The more people carrying the bloody things the more chance that someone who allows their emotions to take over their senses may just end up being the next shooter. Screening of licence applicants doesn't always pick up all the issues that some people are having. Also, people go through emotional change throughout life, can happen to anyone, todays licence holder maybe tomorrows nightmare.

The more firearms out there, the more chance there is that something bad is going to happen. You don't need to ban all firearms, remove all firearms but by removing some of them and restricting others, certain problems will reduce and others will stop.

Not one of you has had an answer for anything Ive said about law enforcement officers coming up against gun slingers. Being exposed daily to such lax firearm laws puts each and everyone of them in the USA in extra danger. Thankfully the whole world isn't afflicted by the same stupidity that goes on daily over there, seriously, do you honestly think theres no problem with firearms in the USA, seriously?

NeverSure · June 3, 2014

Mate,

I just don't get it.

Exactly what I was thinking. Now these dullards want to throw alcohol into the mix. I mean as a police officer I would never have thought of picking my firearm up if I'd been drinking, yet these guys are taking their shooters to a bar.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The more I read, the more I think I'll give my next tour there, the miss. And the Darwin Award for 2014 goes to Georgia.

People who can legally carry into a bar have a license and they have been thoroughly vetted. Their blood alcohol level can't be more than .08 - same as driving. If they have any kind of criminal background including drunk driving or drugs they won't have that license. I've never heard of a problem in my state and I've been around a long time and we beat Georgia to this law.

I can legally carry into a school - grade school through college. But it's not guys like me who do the shootings. It's young troubled guys with a psychiatric history who are on some med - med I don't trust. Legally they wouldn't get a license and I doubt they have one.

If you want to go after drinkers go after the drivers because I've never heard of a bar shooting in my state but I personally knew people who were killed by a drunk driver.

I think your reactions are emotional rather than factual. The licensed, legal gun owners are not causing the problems.

As a responsible citizen, get a license and carry a concealed gun for a day. Your eyes will be opened. You will suddenly become the most polite person you've ever been. Someone crowds ahead of you in line? No problem, go ahead sir. Someone cuts you off while you're driving? No problem. Go ahead sir.

You've taken on a whole new responsibility and the last thing you want is confrontation, unless it's that once in a lifetime need to defend yourself or another person. And every day you hope that never happens, just as police officers go to work every day hoping like heck that never happens.

I will work backwards through your post.

Firstly, I was a Police Officer for over 2 decades, 23 years in total and carried a 'gun' everyday for almost that entire time. So I will leave the rest of that part of your post alone as it sort of answers all of that part.

Secondly, there is evidence to suggest that ALL people become effected by alcohol to a certain extent at levels 0.02 grammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. Of course one needs to fully understand what becoming effected actually entails. I am not suggesting that people become drunk at that level. After one consumes alcohol one of the very first things to suffer is fine motor skills. One of the most important fine motor skills for any driver/firearms controller would be their eyes, wouldn't you agree? Well its virtually the first thing to be effected in the human body after the consumption of alcohol. I could go on, but theres no need to get into a side issue over this. It would be 'opinion' of virtually every expert in the field on firearms that alcohol and firearms do NOT mix well.

I was amused watching some video footage shot in Georgia at the time of these laws being passed. There were several Men strutting around with various types of hand guns in their holsters and when I say strutting, I mean these guys were really strutting, they looked like the sheriffs from those olden western movies. Must make them feel very proud, such powerful big men. I witnessed this several times over the years with Rookie cops, strutting around with their shooters around their hips, swaggering as they walked bit comical to watch really and usually the novelty wore off for them the first time they received a punch in the face at a pub brawl or whatever.

All I can thank is my lucky stars that I wasn't raised in the states and that I never had to work as a Police Officer over there. The rate at which Police and other law enforcement officials are killed over there is very alarming. I mean, we are talking about some of the very best and well trained Police forces in the world, in the states, the very best, yet they are slaughtered often. What you all don't seem to understand when I write is, for me, every weapon out there is another weapon that could easily fall into the incorrect hands. The more people carrying the bloody things the more chance that someone who allows their emotions to take over their senses may just end up being the next shooter. Screening of licence applicants doesn't always pick up all the issues that some people are having. Also, people go through emotional change throughout life, can happen to anyone, todays licence holder maybe tomorrows nightmare.

The more firearms out there, the more chance there is that something bad is going to happen. You don't need to ban all firearms, remove all firearms but by removing some of them and restricting others, certain problems will reduce and others will stop.

Not one of you has had an answer for anything Ive said about law enforcement officers coming up against gun slingers. Being exposed daily to such lax firearm laws puts each and everyone of them in the USA in extra danger. Thankfully the whole world isn't afflicted by the same stupidity that goes on daily over there, seriously, do you honestly think theres no problem with firearms in the USA, seriously?

I can't talk to you. You base your posts on emotions. I'll say it again.

My state has allowed concealed handgun licensees to carry guns into bars and schools for a very long time and I know of no case where there has been a shooting by a licensee. If a licensee was caught over .08 in or out of a bar while carrying, he'd lose his license forever. He will be very protective of his clean background and stay out of trouble. That's part of how he qualified for the license in the first place.

Your emotions appear to take you to a TV show where Marshall Matt Dillion in Dodge City usually killed some bad guy and often in a bar every week on Saturday night.

Your fantasies about what would happen haven't happened and if they do they will be with a psycho or a criminal who doesn't have a license. Your imagination about what might happen in Georgia hasn't happened in other states that allow bar carry.

neverdie · June 3, 2014

I can't talk to you. You base your posts on emotions. I'll say it again.

My state has allowed concealed handgun licensees to carry guns into bars and schools for a very long time and I know of no case where there has been a shooting by a licensee. If a licensee was caught over .08 in or out of a bar while carrying, he'd lose his license forever. He will be very protective of his clean background and stay out of trouble. That's part of how he qualified for the license in the first place.

Your emotions appear to take you to a TV show where Marshall Matt Dillion in Dodge City usually killed some bad guy and often in a bar every week on Saturday night.

Your fantasies about what would happen haven't happened and if they do they will be with a psycho or a criminal who doesn't have a license. Your imagination about what might happen in Georgia hasn't happened in other states that allow bar carry.

Let me tell you I am quite the un emotional person. Do yourself a favour and don't talk to me if you are just trying to belittle what I am saying by prattling on like you did above.

As for your Television shows, Ive never heard of deputy matt or yet alone the dodge city show, I'm not a television person.

Again you seem to think that the USA is in some kind of a 'special bubble' that the laws of gravity don't apply there. You also seem to be delusional about the present state of affairs in the USA, the deaths and whats actually occurring in the streets, of course you seem to only take interest in the facts that support your argument. I get what you are saying but not everyone is going to agree with you.

You also fail to acknowledge that the more firearms available could only mean the higher the chances are one of them will fall into the wrong hands.

I suspect you are the one getting emotional here, you don't like to hear things that don't go along with your gun slinging cowboy ways, fair enough, this really effects your life, I get that. Anyway just return your head to its position in the sand. Everything will be fine. No problem in the states with firearms, no problems with innocent people being gunned down. What victims.

NeverSure · June 3, 2014

I can't talk to you. You base your posts on emotions. I'll say it again.

My state has allowed concealed handgun licensees to carry guns into bars and schools for a very long time and I know of no case where there has been a shooting by a licensee. If a licensee was caught over .08 in or out of a bar while carrying, he'd lose his license forever. He will be very protective of his clean background and stay out of trouble. That's part of how he qualified for the license in the first place.

Your emotions appear to take you to a TV show where Marshall Matt Dillion in Dodge City usually killed some bad guy and often in a bar every week on Saturday night.

Your fantasies about what would happen haven't happened and if they do they will be with a psycho or a criminal who doesn't have a license. Your imagination about what might happen in Georgia hasn't happened in other states that allow bar carry.

Let me tell you I am quite the un emotional person. Do yourself a favour and don't talk to me if you are just trying to belittle what I am saying by prattling on like you did above.

As for your Television shows, Ive never heard of deputy matt or yet alone the dodge city show, I'm not a television person.

Again you seem to think that the USA is in some kind of a 'special bubble' that the laws of gravity don't apply there. You also seem to be delusional about the present state of affairs in the USA, the deaths and whats actually occurring in the streets, of course you seem to only take interest in the facts that support your argument. I get what you are saying but not everyone is going to agree with you.

You also fail to acknowledge that the more firearms available could only mean the higher the chances are one of them will fall into the wrong hands.

I suspect you are the one getting emotional here, you don't like to hear things that don't go along with your gun slinging cowboy ways, fair enough, this really effects your life, I get that. Anyway just return your head to its position in the sand. Everything will be fine. No problem in the states with firearms, no problems with innocent people being gunned down. What victims.

You made quite the emotional rant about Georgia's gun law and your imagination ran wild.

I'm telling you what you said would happen hasn't and won't happen.

You say you're unemotional but I sure don't experience you that way. You just can't seem to let go and deal in facts.

I would appreciate it if you would just give links to where these bad things have happened instead of using an over-the-top imagination. There are 50 states to study for licensed concealed handgun owner behavior. The record is great.

I forgot to mention that the only bar shooting I know of was done by an off-duty police officer when he was partying out of his state in Stugis, S. Dakota at the big annual Sturgis Bike Rally for Harley people. He shot a member of the Hells Angels and I never followed up to find out what happened. IIFC. He was with 4 or 5 of his fellow police officers as they partied at Sturgis.

So much for only police officers having guns. The citizens in the bar needed guns to defend themselves from the cops. LINK

chuckd · June 3, 2014

Not one of you has had an answer for anything Ive said about law enforcement officers coming up against gun slingers. Being exposed daily to such lax firearm laws puts each and everyone of them in the USA in extra danger. Thankfully the whole world isn't afflicted by the same stupidity that goes on daily over there, seriously, do you honestly think theres no problem with firearms in the USA, seriously?

I won't address the rest of your rant but this part piqued my interest.

You claim, rightfully so, that law enforcement officers are required to face "gun slingers" (your words). You have also claimed in previous posts that law enforcement seem to be the only ones that have to face this problem

May I point out one interesting statistic gleaned from the FBI crime report of 2012?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Law enforcement reported 720 justifiable homicides in 2012. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 410 felons, and private citizens justifiably killed 310 people during the commission of crimes. (See Expanded Homicide Data Tables 14 and 15.)"

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expandhomicidemain

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My point? Legally armed citizenry have also done their part to assist law enforcement officers in controlling crime.

As far as your last piercing question about existing gun problems. In my opinion there is definitely a problem with gun control in the US.

The problem is with all the criminals that have them...not the law abiding citizens.

ClutchClark · June 3, 2014

I will work backwards through your post.

Firstly, I was a Police Officer for over 2 decades, 23 years in total and carried a 'gun' everyday for almost that entire time. So I will leave the rest of that part of your post alone as it sort of answers all of that part.

Secondly, there is evidence to suggest that ALL people become effected by alcohol to a certain extent at levels 0.02 grammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. Of course one needs to fully understand what becoming effected actually entails. I am not suggesting that people become drunk at that level. After one consumes alcohol one of the very first things to suffer is fine motor skills. One of the most important fine motor skills for any driver/firearms controller would be their eyes, wouldn't you agree? Well its virtually the first thing to be effected in the human body after the consumption of alcohol. I could go on, but theres no need to get into a side issue over this. It would be 'opinion' of virtually every expert in the field on firearms that alcohol and firearms do NOT mix well.

I was amused watching some video footage shot in Georgia at the time of these laws being passed. There were several Men strutting around with various types of hand guns in their holsters and when I say strutting, I mean these guys were really strutting, they looked like the sheriffs from those olden western movies. Must make them feel very proud, such powerful big men. I witnessed this several times over the years with Rookie cops, strutting around with their shooters around their hips, swaggering as they walked bit comical to watch really and usually the novelty wore off for them the first time they received a punch in the face at a pub brawl or whatever.

All I can thank is my lucky stars that I wasn't raised in the states and that I never had to work as a Police Officer over there. The rate at which Police and other law enforcement officials are killed over there is very alarming. I mean, we are talking about some of the very best and well trained Police forces in the world, in the states, the very best, yet they are slaughtered often. What you all don't seem to understand when I write is, for me, every weapon out there is another weapon that could easily fall into the incorrect hands. The more people carrying the bloody things the more chance that someone who allows their emotions to take over their senses may just end up being the next shooter. Screening of licence applicants doesn't always pick up all the issues that some people are having. Also, people go through emotional change throughout life, can happen to anyone, todays licence holder maybe tomorrows nightmare.

The more firearms out there, the more chance there is that something bad is going to happen. You don't need to ban all firearms, remove all firearms but by removing some of them and restricting others, certain problems will reduce and others will stop.

Not one of you has had an answer for anything Ive said about law enforcement officers coming up against gun slingers. Being exposed daily to such lax firearm laws puts each and everyone of them in the USA in extra danger. Thankfully the whole world isn't afflicted by the same stupidity that goes on daily over there, seriously, do you honestly think theres no problem with firearms in the USA, seriously?

I can't talk to you. You base your posts on emotions. I'll say it again.

My state has allowed concealed handgun licensees to carry guns into bars and schools for a very long time and I know of no case where there has been a shooting by a licensee. If a licensee was caught over .08 in or out of a bar while carrying, he'd lose his license forever. He will be very protective of his clean background and stay out of trouble. That's part of how he qualified for the license in the first place.

Your emotions appear to take you to a TV show where Marshall Matt Dillion in Dodge City usually killed some bad guy and often in a bar every week on Saturday night.

Your fantasies about what would happen haven't happened and if they do they will be with a psycho or a criminal who doesn't have a license. Your imagination about what might happen in Georgia hasn't happened in other states that allow bar carry.

And here is an example of a licensed CC permit holder who chose to carry his firearm to the bars with his drinking buddies and who ended the night by shooting one of them in the face and killing him.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/jury-convicts-milwaukee-concealed-carry-permit-holder-in-fatal-shooting-b99180038z1-239316951.html?ipad=y

And here is another where the legally permitted CC holder was drinking at a bar with his pistol and accidentally "second amendmented" both himself and the bar patron next to him when he accidentally discharged his firearm.

http://freakoutnation.com/2014/02/15/kansas-man-in-a-bar-with-concealed-carry-permit-accidentally-shoots-himself-and-another-person/

Ofcourse, many of these States have only recently legislated CC in establishments that serve alcohol so there is not much case history available...yet.

Guns and alcohol...who'd a ever figured the two don't mix? Never saw that comin' ;-)

And here are some statistics from the Sunshine State, one of the earlier states to allow CC:

"A 2006 investigation by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel revealed that Florida issued concealed handgun permits to more than 1,400 people who plead guilty or no contest to felonies; 216 people with outstanding warrants, including for murder; 28 people with active domestic violence restraining orders against them; and 6 registered sex offenders. ...Floridas Stand Your Ground law, which eliminates the duty to retreat from a confrontation in public before employing deadly force. Justifiable homicides in Florida have increased from 43 the year the law was enacted in 2005 to 105 in 2009."

http://csgv.org/resources/2013/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida/

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Nevetsure and Chuckd,

I see what you are post and I will read it all. There's no doubt about either of you, you will continue to argue your case as if each incident report that occurs anywhere in the states passes over the desk that you sit at. I am sure you allow all the right inforMation to cloud your mind and I accept that you guys might be feeling emotional about something that might come along and effect your gun slinging, or whatever it is that you do with your firearms.

Already CC has posted other example of some of the stuff you have asked about (apparently). I will take a look at that as well.

You both continue to fail to recognise the people that are being slaughtered in your own homeland. Do you even acknowledge there is a problem?

Neversure, trying to use the skills of 'attack and discredit' that you most likely learnt at your last gunslingers meetings, won't worry me, I've seen all those distraction type counter argument techniques used all my life. It's dull and mostly ineffective on people that have seen it before.

chuckd · June 3, 2014

neverdie:

I live in Thailand and I do not have weapons in my house...other than some golf clubs.

I am no "gun slinger" but perhaps a "club slinger" if the need arose.

Seriously I do understand where you are coming from as it relates to your personal experiences. Though you aren't the only one that has been in law enforcement and had to face some unpleasant situations from time to time. Others have as well.

What I cannot understand is why you have taken on this apparent crusade to have the US do away with the Second Amendment.

You are an Aussie.

You live in Thailand.

You may or may not have relatives in the US.

You would seem to be under no clear and present danger from any known "gun slingers".

You don't seem the type that is trying to save the world.

I doubt if you have any financial interest in the US gun industry.

So, please tell us. Why this obsession with gun control in the US?

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Neversure, Chuckd, CC,

His some interesting cases of homicides committed by concealed handgun permit holders....... just in Florida.

http://csgv.org/resources/2013/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida/

chuckd · June 3, 2014

Neversure, Chuckd, CC,

His some interesting cases of homicides committed by concealed handgun permit holders....... just in Florida.

http://csgv.org/resources/2013/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida/

Thirty instances in over seven years in Florida, last one in 2012.

Your point?

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Well on one hand youR telling me there's no problems with gun laws in the USA and that laws are really tight around licensing and right to carry concealed permit holders etc and here you've got no shortage of examples where people had the permit and probably should not of had one (excluding a couple of the cases listed perhaps)

One state, first site I found. so it happens, you see?

neverdie · June 3, 2014

neverdie:

I live in Thailand and I do not have weapons in my house...other than some golf clubs.

I am no "gun slinger" but perhaps a "club slinger" if the need arose.

Seriously I do understand where you are coming from as it relates to your personal experiences. Though you aren't the only one that has been in law enforcement and had to face some unpleasant situations from time to time. Others have as well.

What I cannot understand is why you have taken on this apparent crusade to have the US do away with the Second Amendment.

You are an Aussie.

You live in Thailand.

You may or may not have relatives in the US.

You would seem to be under no clear and present danger from any known "gun slingers".

You don't seem the type that is trying to save the world.

I doubt if you have any financial interest in the US gun industry.

So, please tell us. Why this obsession with gun control in the US?

No obsession, no financial interest, not in danger and virtually everything else you said is correct. Am I not permitted to comment?

neverdie · June 3, 2014

Neversure, Chuckd, CC,

His some interesting cases of homicides committed by concealed handgun permit holders....... just in Florida.

http://csgv.org/resources/2013/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida/

Thirty instances in over seven years in Florida, last one in 2012.

Your point?

These things happen.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jul/20/anti-gun-group/

neverdie · June 3, 2014

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murders-by-concealed-hand_b_632278.html

neverdie · June 3, 2014

You guys,

you said this stuff doesn't happen.

http://smartgunlaws.org/concealed-weapons-permitting-policy-summary/

Perhaps nobody wanted to mention the facts that did NOT support your theories ?

Chopperboy · June 3, 2014

Dr. Steve Pieczenik

Psychological warfare expert, former State Department Official, and CFR member states:
Eliot Rodger/ Santa Barbara is a FalseFlag. At 17.12minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxwcWly9E-Q

neverdie · June 3, 2014

check out their stats page

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/gun-violence-statistics/

Chopperboy · June 3, 2014

check out their stats page

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/gun-violence-statistics/

"Suicide

Firearms were used in 19,392 suicides in the U.S. in 2010, constituting almost 62% of all gun deaths"

My understanding is that a lot of the rest were gang related particularly in cities with tight gun laws like Chicago.

There are also statistics which show the gun violence in decline over a 20 year period, and that guns actually save lives and prevent crime.

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California gunman 'was filmmaker Peter Rodger's son'

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