Thai rice farmers rejoice after junta head orders immediate cash payment

[Piichai]

Have the IMF and the world bank changed their opinions recently? Have they declared that paying out, is OK now?

What has changed in the "purely financial" arguments of the banks? It is safe now, why will the banks not loose their solvability now ?

As for the anti election commission, don't bother to explain their turnaround.

I am not talking about "recently" or even "now". I am talking about before. Check the dates. I even added links!

Farmers have been paid.

Do you have an issue with that?

Contrarily to certain others, I have NO ISSUE with the farmers being paid, and paid well.

However, I DO HAVE AN ISSUE with some people delaying the payment for so long, and now pretending that they come to the rescue of the farmers.

Yingluck could have paid the farmers before PDRC took to the streets, or provided for them when she dissolved parliament.

Yingluck chose to do neither.

[Piichai]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

what is so strange?

The PTP did not have dictatorial powers

What is so strange to many people is why did Yingluck stop paying the farmers months before PDRC hit the streets? And why didn't Yingluck provide for the farmers when she dissolved parliament?

[Piichai]

<deleted>

Edited May 27, 2014 by Piichai

[risky11]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

[djjamie]

Have the IMF and the world bank changed their opinions recently? Have they declared that paying out, is OK now?

What has changed in the "purely financial" arguments of the banks? It is safe now, why will the banks not loose their solvability now ?

As for the anti election commission, don't bother to explain their turnaround.

I am not talking about "recently" or even "now". I am talking about before. Check the dates. I even added links!

Farmers have been paid.

Do you have an issue with that?

Contrarily to certain others, I have NO ISSUE with the farmers being paid, and paid well.

However, I DO HAVE AN ISSUE with some people delaying the payment for so long, and now pretending that they come to the rescue of the farmers.

Yingluck could have paid the farmers before PDRC took to the streets, or provided for them when she dissolved parliament.

Yingluck chose to do neither.

Between September and parliament dissolving they PTP lied to the population 2 times stating they did have the money up to February. 2 times they were warned by the IMF an d World Bank to stop they scheme. They chose to intimidate the entities instead of listening to them.

Then when they dissolved parliament they might well have had a meeting where they said "We don't have money to pay the farmers" and the PTP would have said…..even though Suthep is on the streets, even though he could intimidate the banks, even though the EC are perceived to be against us we will take the risk of dissolving and request loans while in caretaker mode instead of delaying the dissolution by 2 weeks to allow us to "clean house and get everything in order before we dissolve which would allow us to control our own destiny"

The PTP f#ck*d. Plain and simple. Never leave your destiny in others hands. They didn't need to. They did anyway. They always do. It is to allow others to be blamed.

The EC and Suthep are a convenience for the purpose of blaming just like there is always someone on hand to conveniently blame for everything the PTP get wrong.

If the Titanic was built by thaksin shinawatra and then it sank you could pick the PTP supporters. They would be up the back blaming global warning for sea level rises as opposed to believing the ship was sinking.

Edited May 27, 2014 by djjamie

[SICHONSTEVE]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

[transam]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

And be like Iran you mean..........

[SICHONSTEVE]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

And be like Iran you mean..........

No........be like China!!!!

[nidieunimaitre]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

That comment makes it all clear.

Answering your posts: what a waste of time! Won't happen again.

Thanks for your clarification.

Greetings from the free world.

[nidieunimaitre]

Have the IMF and the world bank changed their opinions recently? Have they declared that paying out, is OK now?

What has changed in the "purely financial" arguments of the banks? It is safe now, why will the banks not loose their solvability now ?

As for the anti election commission, don't bother to explain their turnaround.

I am not talking about "recently" or even "now". I am talking about before. Check the dates. I even added links!

Farmers have been paid.

Do you have an issue with that?

Contrarily to certain others, I have NO ISSUE with the farmers being paid, and paid well.

However, I DO HAVE AN ISSUE with some people delaying the payment for so long, and now pretending that they come to the rescue of the farmers.

Yingluck could have paid the farmers before PDRC took to the streets, or provided for them when she dissolved parliament.

Yingluck chose to do neither.

AFTER Suthep installed mobrule (together with his allies), the government could not pay, they were legally prevented from doing so / threatened with organised bankruns.

BEFORE Suthep installed mobrule, the government could not pay:

1/because of mismanagement,they did not have the budget for it (but where did that budget suddenly come from now?)

2/because the government was refused loans by the amart controlled banks (those banks might have been right to refuse, on solvability grounds, but why is solvability not a problem anymore now?)

Unlike many posters, I do not defend 1 side.

Corruption, mismanagement, arrogance, abuse of power, conspiracies, lies are not the monopoly of 1 side.

And anyway, what is happening has very little to do with red and yellow, followers of both sides are being lied to.

Greetings from the free world.

[gemini81]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

North Korea is calling your name? Well, (we won't) see you later.

[Gweiloman]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

North Korea is calling your name? Well, (we won't) see you later.

Whoa! What's this? TV anti-govt members turning on each other now?

[SICHONSTEVE]

And they say democracy rules!!

Democracy is one of the WORST forms of government. It's life is a short as it's end is violent. It ALWAYS devolves into MOBocracy. It is actually an intermediate step towards Communism.

Couldn't have put it better myself - I'm glad that someone else realises this and agrees with what I have been saying for ages.

They can shove democracy somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!

That comment makes it all clear.

Answering your posts: what a waste of time! Won't happen again.

Thanks for your clarification.

Greetings from the free world.

Perhaps I should have qualified it a bit better.

I am not referring to the west in this, but only to dysfunctional countries such as those in the East (China apart).

You have to admit that China's economy and the way in which China is run is infinitely better than Thailand has been for the last decade.

Democracy under its present guise has never worked in Thailand, as the people (and resulting governments) are simply not mature enough and use it for their own personal enrichment.

benign dictatorship (as is the case now) can be far more effective and trumps democracy in the case of Thailand regards good governance.

Hopefully I have clarified my position now and you don't view me as 'the second coming of Hitler'!!!!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Anyone been paid yet?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Gentlemen.

See post *283

[billd766]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

My understanding is that when they had caretaker status, they were not able to borrow money as the government of Thailand. The army, however, can simply order banks to provide the loans necessary for the payments.

What was your understanding of when they WERE in power, parliament was NOT dissolved yet they still did not pay the farmers for quite a while before they dissolved parliament?

What stopped them then, and why did they not make any plans BEFORE they dissolved parliament?

Could it have been that they thought that they would win a snap election, borrow even more money off the books and pay from that money?

[billd766]

Farmers will be pleased to be paid. It's great. However, they will not forget that it was the old guard who blocked the payment in the first place.Nothing to do with the policy itself , just pure bloody-mindedness by Sutphep and the cronies.

Another lie from you again? WHY didn't the PTP pay the farmersw in August, September, October, November and part of December then? Surely you remember the PTP government saying next week, next week, so many times BEFORE the PDRC was even formed, or is your memory THAT selective.?

[FritsSikkink]

2/because the government was refused loans by the amart controlled banks (those banks might have been right to refuse, on solvability grounds, but why is solvability not a problem anymore now?)

Totally not true. They just didn't want to pay.

[billd766]

Farmers will be pleased to be paid. It's great. However, they will not forget that it was the old guard who blocked the payment in the first place.Nothing to do with the policy itself , just pure bloody-mindedness by Sutphep and the cronies.

How do you justify writing lies like this to yourself? You know very well PTP ran into difficulties with paying the farmers months before the protests against the corrupt amnesty bill forced them to dissolve parliament.

They were lying about having enough money months before any protest and then cocked up further by not bothering about paying the farmers before dissolving the house. They needed the 2.2.trillion to cover it all up.

Will be interesting to see what comes to light if/when the real books are found and audited.

There is nothing incorrect in what I have written. Yes, there were problems with the budget for it and in making the payment when the govt went into caretaker mode. It was at that point that Suthep stepped in and harassed and threatened the banks and the private sector, eventually bullying them into non-particiapation in the payment. There are WHOLE THREADS devoted to those events, including some lame brains on this forum suggesting that the banks would fail and everyone should rush to withdraw their money.

The govt didn't handle the payment/budget well and it was a deeply flawed policy but let's be honest...had it not been for Suthep and his bully boy tactics , the faremrs would have been paid 5 months ago or before

More weasel words from you. Can you not admit that the government couldn't pay because there WAS no money to pay the farmrs with.

The are probably Army auditors out bthere now going through the books and asking awkward questions but the facts will become clear. You CANNOT hide this much missing money and if youy say that there are no records, the rats ate them, you will be even deeper in that soft smell brown stuff. Believe me there will be a lot of people singing out there and when the accounts get published and the truth comes out, what will you say then? It was just a simple accounting error?

[billd766]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

PM Ying Luck tried everything in her power to get the farmers paid but the democrats and others (behind the scenes (ARMY) blocked her at every move. Unlike Gen Prayuth she did not have absolute power. Now the Dems and the Army can come out smelling like hero's when in fact they were both behind stopping PM Yingluck from getting the farmers paid.

&lt;deleted&gt;.

[Eric Loh]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

My understanding is that when they had caretaker status, they were not able to borrow money as the government of Thailand. The army, however, can simply order banks to provide the loans necessary for the payments.

What was your understanding of when they WERE in power, parliament was NOT dissolved yet they still did not pay the farmers for quite a while before they dissolved parliament?

What stopped them then, and why did they not make any plans BEFORE they dissolved parliament?

Could it have been that they thought that they would win a snap election, borrow even more money off the books and pay from that money?

What the precious government didn't anticipate was the change in the international market for rice and the dampened rice price and also the increase in local production. That created the large stockpile which can't sell and increases debts to farmers. You really can't budget for a sudden change in the market place. Every corporate planers can tell you that.

In a normal budget deficit like this rice scheme, government can easily sell bills and bonds to pay the farmers but since their legalities are in doubt over their caretaker role, buyers are also reluctant to buy. And it is perfectly normal for bank to lend to government as payment are guaranteed. Suthep drove a spanner in the works and that is a fact. Not saying though that the rice scheme is right.

[billd766]

Well done! Excellent move, but more than anything, the farmers are finally getting paid! Miltary scores again...

Military takes over and manages to get rid of demonstrations from both sides Military 1 - Thaksin 0.... Military pays Rice Farmers right away Military 2 - Thaksin 0.

Military stops corruption.... Military 3-Thaksin 0

Well, I can dream can't I ?? Actually with limitless power and the well being

of Thailand as the goal, he could accomplish astounding things.......

Really have to open your eyes much wider. Start by reading what happen the most recent anti mine protest in Loei and who are behind the thuggery and corruption.

[billd766]

Too bad they have only till 10 pm tonight to spent it in bars.

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Yessir, that's right, thousands of poor rice farmers who have been struggling financially for many months will all of a sudden rush to the nearest karaoke bar and piss it away.

Reality, there will be many household/village parties in appreciation of this money finally getting to the needy rice producers..

Well done Prayuth!!

Yes good on army, but kalbo is not wrong . Money will be pissed away by many in a matter of days and many bills and loans will go unpaid.

I can also see a rush of new pick up buyers, as many simply can not manage large sums of money nor have the ability to think about tomorrow

Farmers wives know what is going on and they control the farmers. Other than that you obviously don't know many farmers.

[rubl]

My understanding is that when they had caretaker status, they were not able to borrow money as the government of Thailand. The army, however, can simply order banks to provide the loans necessary for the payments.

What was your understanding of when they WERE in power, parliament was NOT dissolved yet they still did not pay the farmers for quite a while before they dissolved parliament?

What stopped them then, and why did they not make any plans BEFORE they dissolved parliament?

Could it have been that they thought that they would win a snap election, borrow even more money off the books and pay from that money?

What the precious government didn't anticipate was the change in the international market for rice and the dampened rice price and also the increase in local production. That created the large stockpile which can't sell and increases debts to farmers. You really can't budget for a sudden change in the market place. Every corporate planers can tell you that.

In a normal budget deficit like this rice scheme, government can easily sell bills and bonds to pay the farmers but since their legalities are in doubt over their caretaker role, buyers are also reluctant to buy. And it is perfectly normal for bank to lend to government as payment are guaranteed. Suthep drove a spanner in the works and that is a fact. Not saying though that the rice scheme is right.

What the Yinglyck government didn't do was doing a risk analysis on their RPPS. They simply 'forgot' that markets can change, they 'forgot' that prices can vary, they forgot that setting a very high price would induce quantity rather than quality.

Now this RPPS didn't have a 'normal' budget. The government setup a revolving funds with the idea of paying farmers and others from it and paying back from rice sales. The very fact that a 'revolving funds' was setup already implies that the government DID NOT expect deficits.

Buyers are reluctant to buy as the government wanted a profit ON TOP of the high pledge price. Only in the last months lower prices were accepted very reluctantly as that would make deficits slowly visible. Banks didn't lend as the caretaker government had no legal base to lend.

The Yingluck government was criminally optimistic with taxpayers money. The BAAC has a 700++ billion gap guaranteed by the Yingluck government. The next government will have to honour that debt leaving them with a need for hundreds of billion Baht to be reserved in the National Budgets the coming years.

[billd766]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

The PDRC and Dems were blocking the cash supply. That is why.

&lt;deleted&gt;. The government screwed the farmers and were exposed at doing it.

[Thaddeus]

How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

The PDRC and Dems were blocking the cash supply. That is why.

<deleted>. The government screwed the farmers and were exposed at doing it.

And didn't have the money.

From 20 minutes ago.

RT @tulsathit: All of a sudden, Finance Ministry, long quiet over rice pledging scheme, has said it caused Bt500 billion loss.

[Eric Loh]

My understanding is that when they had caretaker status, they were not able to borrow money as the government of Thailand. The army, however, can simply order banks to provide the loans necessary for the payments.

What was your understanding of when they WERE in power, parliament was NOT dissolved yet they still did not pay the farmers for quite a while before they dissolved parliament?

What stopped them then, and why did they not make any plans BEFORE they dissolved parliament?

Could it have been that they thought that they would win a snap election, borrow even more money off the books and pay from that money?

What the precious government didn't anticipate was the change in the international market for rice and the dampened rice price and also the increase in local production. That created the large stockpile which can't sell and increases debts to farmers. You really can't budget for a sudden change in the market place. Every corporate planers can tell you that.

In a normal budget deficit like this rice scheme, government can easily sell bills and bonds to pay the farmers but since their legalities are in doubt over their caretaker role, buyers are also reluctant to buy. And it is perfectly normal for bank to lend to government as payment are guaranteed. Suthep drove a spanner in the works and that is a fact. Not saying though that the rice scheme is right.

What the Yinglyck government didn't do was doing a risk analysis on their RPPS. They simply 'forgot' that markets can change, they 'forgot' that prices can vary, they forgot that setting a very high price would induce quantity rather than quality.

Now this RPPS didn't have a 'normal' budget. The government setup a revolving funds with the idea of paying farmers and others from it and paying back from rice sales. The very fact that a 'revolving funds' was setup already implies that the government DID NOT expect deficits.

Buyers are reluctant to buy as the government wanted a profit ON TOP of the high pledge price. Only in the last months lower prices were accepted very reluctantly as that would make deficits slowly visible. Banks didn't lend as the caretaker government had no legal base to lend.

The Yingluck government was criminally optimistic with taxpayers money. The BAAC has a 700++ billion gap guaranteed by the Yingluck government. The next government will have to honour that debt leaving them with a need for hundreds of billion Baht to be reserved in the National Budgets the coming years.

Criminality will depend how you want to look at the scheme, corruption aside. You can either view the scheme as a money making business or a social attempt to help the poor farmers. The Dem has similar scheme that cause tax payer billions too. Yes, I agree that the rice scheme is much too costly for the country.

The debts are not really that huge. It's about 8% of budget expenditures and could be smaller when rice stockpiles are released and sold plus there is a large reduction in production due the delayed payment and weather. It can be paid off in a normal budget year.

[thaibry]

Anyone been paid yet?

I would also like to know if payments have actually been made?

posted from my Samsung using Tapatalk 2.

[rubl]

What the precious government didn't anticipate was the change in the international market for rice and the dampened rice price and also the increase in local production. That created the large stockpile which can't sell and increases debts to farmers. You really can't budget for a sudden change in the market place. Every corporate planers can tell you that.

In a normal budget deficit like this rice scheme, government can easily sell bills and bonds to pay the farmers but since their legalities are in doubt over their caretaker role, buyers are also reluctant to buy. And it is perfectly normal for bank to lend to government as payment are guaranteed. Suthep drove a spanner in the works and that is a fact. Not saying though that the rice scheme is right.

What the Yinglyck government didn't do was doing a risk analysis on their RPPS. They simply 'forgot' that markets can change, they 'forgot' that prices can vary, they forgot that setting a very high price would induce quantity rather than quality.

Now this RPPS didn't have a 'normal' budget. The government setup a revolving funds with the idea of paying farmers and others from it and paying back from rice sales. The very fact that a 'revolving funds' was setup already implies that the government DID NOT expect deficits.

Buyers are reluctant to buy as the government wanted a profit ON TOP of the high pledge price. Only in the last months lower prices were accepted very reluctantly as that would make deficits slowly visible. Banks didn't lend as the caretaker government had no legal base to lend.

The Yingluck government was criminally optimistic with taxpayers money. The BAAC has a 700++ billion gap guaranteed by the Yingluck government. The next government will have to honour that debt leaving them with a need for hundreds of billion Baht to be reserved in the National Budgets the coming years.

Criminality will depend how you want to look at the scheme, corruption aside. You can either view the scheme as a money making business or a social attempt to help the poor farmers. The Dem has similar scheme that cause tax payer billions too. Yes, I agree that the rice scheme is much too costly for the country.

The debts are not really that huge. It's about 8% of budget expenditures and could be smaller when rice stockpiles are released and sold plus there is a large reduction in production due the delayed payment and weather. It can be paid off in a normal budget year.

Criminally means coming up with a scam which has cost 700++ billions and with the intended poor farmers still poor. The rice mountain under current price levels and taking into account 'missing' tonnes will barely be sufficient to repay farmers all that they are owed.

The scheme was setup to help poor farmers and make money. It didn't do either unless you start to wonder where those 700++ billions have disappeared to.

The Democrats had schemes which costs a few billions on a price guarantee directly to farmers. The guarantee price was deemed barely above cost of produce level. The Yingluck government more than doubled the pledge price and introduced middlemen as well.

The 700++ billion gap would be about 250 billion per year. With planned deficits 2011/2012 300 billion, 2012/2013 250 billion, 2013/2014 200/250 billion adding the RPPS would have doubled the deficits and make it necessary to sell rice the same year. The rice stock is being sold to pay of farmers, and extra loans to speed up farmer repayment. A large reduction due to payments mean a large reduction due to lack of money to start producing again. Poor farmers.

Mind you, it's a pity the Yingluck government is no more. With your sound fiscal dreams, wishful thinking and not being restricted by knowledge you would be an ideal government spokesperson.

Edited May 27, 2014 by rubl

[Local Drunk]

Have the IMF and the world bank changed their opinions recently? Have they declared that paying out, is OK now?

What has changed in the "purely financial" arguments of the banks? It is safe now, why will the banks not loose their solvability now ?

As for the anti election commission, don't bother to explain their turnaround.

I am not talking about "recently" or even "now". I am talking about before. Check the dates. I even added links!

Farmers have been paid.

Do you have an issue with that?

Lovely lovely coup.

Everyone knows that farmers would have been paid before if the Yingluck government hadn't been conned into surrendering power and holding elections in February. They won't fall for that con job in future.

Lovely lovely coup.

I'm going to type this very slowly so that you get it... "The coup was not about the rice scheme."