Wake Up! Are We Really So Stupid!

[chiangrai57020]

Many people have stated that they come to Thailand because of the 'Culture'. Do you know the definition of Culture? a particular society at a particular time and place; tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group; knowledge and values shared by a society, etc. In Thailand, Thai Culture has several additional definitions today - GREED - CORRUPTION - THEIVERY among others! This is what has ruined Thailand (IMO).

It is interesting to read on the forum about people that are purchasing or contemplating the purchase of:

Condo's for 1,000,000 plus baht with many at prices of 4,000,000 baht and above! That's $27,000 - 106,000 plus US dollars.

Land for 500,000 baht (minimum) to well over 2,000,000 baht per rai! That's $13,000 to $54,000 plus US dollars per acre. And you cannot own the land!

House for 1,000,000 plus baht! Again, that's $27,000 plus US Dollars. Combined House and Land - $40,000 US Dollars (minimum)!! And again, you cannot own the land!

I have personally shopped for another house and prices have ranged from 800,000 to over 2,000,000. And this is for 'second hand' town houses and 'stand alone' houses that are so run down that I would not put 'farm animals' in them. To refurbish them to what most 'foreigners' would consider 'acceptable' will cost an additional 800,000 to 2,000,000 in materials and labor. Needless to say, I will not be purchasing another house 'in this lifetime'!

For those that are not familiar with a 'Rai' or 'Acre' of land - an 'Acre' is equivalent to 2.5 Rai of land.

And by the way, a Rai of land was selling for 250 baht in 1967 - today, the same 1 Rai of 'farm' land is going for 500,000 baht (that's a 2,000% increase!).

Are we really that stupid? Are the Thai women the only reason many 'foreigners' are here? It is difficult for me to comprehend how any 'foreigner' would want to come to Thailand today and spend the above kind of money in a country where the government continually make it difficult through 'rule changes', etc. for us to stay here. There are many places in our own country where we can purchase condo's, land, and houses - and OWN them - for the same money that the 'GREEDY' Thai people are asking. Luckily I was able to purchase a rai of land right after the crisis of 1997 and before the prices began to inflate. How does the price of land correlate to the cost-of-living in Thailand? Something is not right!

Ask yourself 'Why are land prices so high'? Who are the people that own 'most' of the land in Thailand? Is it a 'certain group of elite' that own all the land? Where did their money come from? Two guesses and they will both be correct - It will not be spelled out here!

Why can't the 'foreigner' own land in Thailand? Part of this has already been answered above. Why would a 'certain' group of elite's want the 'foreigner' to purchase and own land? It could be that 'they' want to purchase all the land they can at 'rock bottom' prices - which they have been doing since the 70s - and then sometime in the future change the law so they can sell the land to the 'stupid foreigner' at ridiculously inflated prices. Many people on this forum, and Thai people in general, will say that the 'foreigners' have driven prices up (condo's, houses', land). IMO the Thai elite have driven prices out of sight. In reading the Bangkok Post and The Nation newspapers it does not take much of an imagination to determine 'who owns' Thailand and why the 'net worth' of a 'select' group of people have mysteriously increased over the years! When I write about land prices, I am Not referring to Phuket, Bangkok, Samui, etc. - prices in those places are 'ridiculous'. I am referring to the 'country', the 'village', the 'small cities', etc.

For you people that want Thailand to remain the same - Thailand was 100% better in the 60s, 70s, and 80s than it is today (2006). The people were truly a great people, but greed, corruption, and thievery have taken over. The farmers in the country have seen how the Thai Bangkok elite's have taken advantage of them through the land sales and purchases. The 'farmers' or 'village people' are now trying to get the same kind of money for the land that is left. Who is going to buy the land? The average Thai citizen cannot afford these prices! In effect, they have been priced off their land and cannot afford to purchase a new homestead! The same can be said of condo's and house's.

And then there are many Thai's and foreigner alike stating that Thailand is now a democracy and they have a constitution. Thai people can vote for whomever they want. Do the people making these statements have a 'blindfold on' and really belief this? Just look at the governmental structure and the chain at the top! The military took over Thailand in the 1930s and will 'never' release their control. The same governmental structure of the 1930s are the people making the political decisions, rules, laws, etc. today - in whose favor! Certainly not for the general populace! If I am poor and have no money and someone offers me 200 or 500 baht to vote for somebody, I am going to take it. Voting is not 'free choice' - with or without the 'hand-out'. The 'village' people are 'Told' who they will vote for with 'intimidation'.

If all this is happening, Why don't the Thai people speak up? First, you must have an educated society. But isn't education mandatory? Yes, but you have to have a 'educated' and 'knowledgeable' teaching staff at 'all schools' throughout Thailand to impart knowledge to the students. Much of Thailand is either uneducated or undereducated which includes the teaching staff. That is exactly what the Thai government wants - regardless of what they say. Why are TV and radio stations 'controlled' by the government/military? And, 'freedom of press' - If you believe that I have some 'swamp land' I will sell you! An educated society leads to problems. Just look at the problems that the academics at the university level are causing today! If the entire population was 'educated' the current Thai government would never survive. Secondly, if one were to 'speak his or her mind', there is the possibility of an early end to life. Thai people have learned one lesson in school - do not speak your mind, obey authority figures at all times. This is a society of uniforms - from the lowest village 'head' to the very top of government - What is the message? - 'When I am in uniform, I am your superior - and don't you ever forget it'. And then you have a 'foreign' population coming to Thailand and migrating to the cities and villages and bringing with them their vast knowledge of 'world' affairs. This does not bode well for a government that is interested in 'controlling' the populace.

I realize that I am among the vocal minority when making statements as above. Having lived in Thailand in the 60s and 70s, and returning to Thailand in 1997, I have seen enormous change in Thailand - most of it BAD. Bangkok aside, Thailand, the country, is a great place to live. There are good people out in the villages - I cannot say that about the major cities of Thailand! I have had a great time and enjoy living in and among the 'village' people. The 'small villages' are where the 'real' people live.

I have read many comments and opinions from people who live outside of Thailand. So, for those people that live in other countries and only travel to Thailand for a short vacation, I say to them - Don't go writing about Thailand when you know nothing about Thailand. For those that have lived here for 1 or 2 years and write constantly about how great it is to live in Thailand, I say wait a little while longer and 'your opinion' may change.

And, for those that disagree with everything I have written, I say, you have every right to 'your own opinion' just as I have a right to 'my opinion'. In closing, 'my opinion' as expressed above is based on over 40 years of travel to, and living in Thailand.

Now you ask - Why am I here? Probably for the same reason many of us are here - Thai family. Would I leave if I had the chance? Yes. When you have 'embassies' that are not sympathetic in the issuance of visa's, then you have to weigh your choices - leave the family, or live with your family. It is not the Thai people that I have contempt for - it is the Thai bureaucratic crap and inefficiency, and their 'I am better than you attitude'.

[jdinasia]

zzzzzzzzzzzz

I could fill a page with it .. but why?

You superior BKK and City people aren't "real" Thais is just fabulous! An amazing generalisation...

Strangely the USA is not the same in 2006 as it was in 1960 ... I rather doubt anywhere really is.

I imagine that if you have been in a family with any amount of time that you should be able to manage a visa ... but if not it would lead one to wonder why!

I love it here in Thailand though my history here is limited to when you returned ... 1997 was my first trip. SO WHAT?

But good luck to you ... if you are this upset and bitter now ... just think how you'll feel in a few more years!

[NovaBlue05]

"..Wake Up! Are We Really So Stupid!"

What mean "we"...white man?

[Gumballl]

chiangrai57020 -

I agree with some of your statements, maybe perhaps all. Nevertheless, I would not point fingers directly at Thai only. There are similar (stupid) people amassing in the US and other western countries. These people have more interest in the weekend football game than in their own situation in life. They demand higher and higher wages to raise their purchasing power, with no one in sight to educate them that this is self defeating. As wages rise, so do prices. An idiot should be able to figure this out, but yet...

Couple this with the degrading educational systems in the west, the lack of health care, poverty, and then perhaps you will realize that the true issue is the unseen conflict between the haves and have-nots. As humane as some folks are, the majority of people are out to serve themselves and to push their agenda over that of another.

I for one am not so naive to believe that someone will provide for me as I get older. Therefore, if I see an opportunity to make a dollar, even if it means selling something for more than I think it is worth, I will take it. The "elite" Thai you wrote of are no different. And I do not blame them one bit.

Jeez, I just realize I wrote a lot. I am really getting sick of reading the TV forum. It seems today it is all about complaints. Never anything positive. Never any worthwhile suggestions to make things better. It is always about gimme, gimme, gimme. Very pathetic.

A lot of TV members are farang, and hence they do not have a true voice in LOS. But many of these same members are married to Thai. What do their spouses do? Absolutely nothing!

Edited June 16, 2006 by Gumballl

[BKK90210]

I think…It’s very good for your health and insanity...to be able to do this once awhile - Shouting out your frustrations and disappointments - as a stress management strategy in order to rebuild a new stress-resilient nature.

[Nignoy]

Many people have stated that they come to Thailand because of the 'Culture'. Do you know the definition of Culture? a particular society at a particular time and place; tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group; knowledge and values shared by a society, etc. In Thailand, Thai Culture has several additional definitions today - GREED - CORRUPTION - THEIVERY among others! This is what has ruined Thailand (IMO).

It is interesting to read on the forum about people that are purchasing or contemplating the purchase of:

Condo's for 1,000,000 plus baht with many at prices of 4,000,000 baht and above! That's $27,000 - 106,000 plus US dollars.

Land for 500,000 baht (minimum) to well over 2,000,000 baht per rai! That's $13,000 to $54,000 plus US dollars per acre. And you cannot own the land!

House for 1,000,000 plus baht! Again, that's $27,000 plus US Dollars. Combined House and Land - $40,000 US Dollars (minimum)!! And again, you cannot own the land!

I have personally shopped for another house and prices have ranged from 800,000 to over 2,000,000. And this is for 'second hand' town houses and 'stand alone' houses that are so run down that I would not put 'farm animals' in them. To refurbish them to what most 'foreigners' would consider 'acceptable' will cost an additional 800,000 to 2,000,000 in materials and labor. Needless to say, I will not be purchasing another house 'in this lifetime'!

For those that are not familiar with a 'Rai' or 'Acre' of land - an 'Acre' is equivalent to 2.5 Rai of land.

And by the way, a Rai of land was selling for 250 baht in 1967 - today, the same 1 Rai of 'farm' land is going for 500,000 baht (that's a 2,000% increase!).

Are we really that stupid? Are the Thai women the only reason many 'foreigners' are here? It is difficult for me to comprehend how any 'foreigner' would want to come to Thailand today and spend the above kind of money in a country where the government continually make it difficult through 'rule changes', etc. for us to stay here. There are many places in our own country where we can purchase condo's, land, and houses - and OWN them - for the same money that the 'GREEDY' Thai people are asking. Luckily I was able to purchase a rai of land right after the crisis of 1997 and before the prices began to inflate. How does the price of land correlate to the cost-of-living in Thailand? Something is not right!

Ask yourself 'Why are land prices so high'? Who are the people that own 'most' of the land in Thailand? Is it a 'certain group of elite' that own all the land? Where did their money come from? Two guesses and they will both be correct - It will not be spelled out here!

Why can't the 'foreigner' own land in Thailand? Part of this has already been answered above. Why would a 'certain' group of elite's want the 'foreigner' to purchase and own land? It could be that 'they' want to purchase all the land they can at 'rock bottom' prices - which they have been doing since the 70s - and then sometime in the future change the law so they can sell the land to the 'stupid foreigner' at ridiculously inflated prices. Many people on this forum, and Thai people in general, will say that the 'foreigners' have driven prices up (condo's, houses', land). IMO the Thai elite have driven prices out of sight. In reading the Bangkok Post and The Nation newspapers it does not take much of an imagination to determine 'who owns' Thailand and why the 'net worth' of a 'select' group of people have mysteriously increased over the years! When I write about land prices, I am Not referring to Phuket, Bangkok, Samui, etc. - prices in those places are 'ridiculous'. I am referring to the 'country', the 'village', the 'small cities', etc.

For you people that want Thailand to remain the same - Thailand was 100% better in the 60s, 70s, and 80s than it is today (2006). The people were truly a great people, but greed, corruption, and thievery have taken over. The farmers in the country have seen how the Thai Bangkok elite's have taken advantage of them through the land sales and purchases. The 'farmers' or 'village people' are now trying to get the same kind of money for the land that is left. Who is going to buy the land? The average Thai citizen cannot afford these prices! In effect, they have been priced off their land and cannot afford to purchase a new homestead! The same can be said of condo's and house's.

And then there are many Thai's and foreigner alike stating that Thailand is now a democracy and they have a constitution. Thai people can vote for whomever they want. Do the people making these statements have a 'blindfold on' and really belief this? Just look at the governmental structure and the chain at the top! The military took over Thailand in the 1930s and will 'never' release their control. The same governmental structure of the 1930s are the people making the political decisions, rules, laws, etc. today - in whose favor! Certainly not for the general populace! If I am poor and have no money and someone offers me 200 or 500 baht to vote for somebody, I am going to take it. Voting is not 'free choice' - with or without the 'hand-out'. The 'village' people are 'Told' who they will vote for with 'intimidation'.

If all this is happening, Why don't the Thai people speak up? First, you must have an educated society. But isn't education mandatory? Yes, but you have to have a 'educated' and 'knowledgeable' teaching staff at 'all schools' throughout Thailand to impart knowledge to the students. Much of Thailand is either uneducated or undereducated which includes the teaching staff. That is exactly what the Thai government wants - regardless of what they say. Why are TV and radio stations 'controlled' by the government/military? And, 'freedom of press' - If you believe that I have some 'swamp land' I will sell you! An educated society leads to problems. Just look at the problems that the academics at the university level are causing today! If the entire population was 'educated' the current Thai government would never survive. Secondly, if one were to 'speak his or her mind', there is the possibility of an early end to life. Thai people have learned one lesson in school - do not speak your mind, obey authority figures at all times. This is a society of uniforms - from the lowest village 'head' to the very top of government - What is the message? - 'When I am in uniform, I am your superior - and don't you ever forget it'. And then you have a 'foreign' population coming to Thailand and migrating to the cities and villages and bringing with them their vast knowledge of 'world' affairs. This does not bode well for a government that is interested in 'controlling' the populace.

I realize that I am among the vocal minority when making statements as above. Having lived in Thailand in the 60s and 70s, and returning to Thailand in 1997, I have seen enormous change in Thailand - most of it BAD. Bangkok aside, Thailand, the country, is a great place to live. There are good people out in the villages - I cannot say that about the major cities of Thailand! I have had a great time and enjoy living in and among the 'village' people. The 'small villages' are where the 'real' people live.

I have read many comments and opinions from people who live outside of Thailand. So, for those people that live in other countries and only travel to Thailand for a short vacation, I say to them - Don't go writing about Thailand when you know nothing about Thailand. For those that have lived here for 1 or 2 years and write constantly about how great it is to live in Thailand, I say wait a little while longer and 'your opinion' may change.

And, for those that disagree with everything I have written, I say, you have every right to 'your own opinion' just as I have a right to 'my opinion'. In closing, 'my opinion' as expressed above is based on over 40 years of travel to, and living in Thailand.

Now you ask - Why am I here? Probably for the same reason many of us are here - Thai family. Would I leave if I had the chance? Yes. When you have 'embassies' that are not sympathetic in the issuance of visa's, then you have to weigh your choices - leave the family, or live with your family. It is not the Thai people that I have contempt for - it is the Thai bureaucratic crap and inefficiency, and their 'I am better than you attitude'.

I agree with some of your points, as a person who lived in thailand in the early 60,s and has been a regular visitor and avid fan of thailand ever since, as are my children and grandchildren,I used to enjoy pastoral pattaya and phuket, before they became US forces R&R brothels,of course there have been changes and thai bureaucracy is not for the faint hearted,but many people are willing to put up with the thai way of life, because they see it as improvement on their previous lives ,whether it be in UK, Europe or US, as far as village life is concerned,I lived in a village 110 kms north of Ubon for over 4years in the early 60,s I think I can safely say,Idont look at thai life through rosecoloured glasses, but my family and I are happy to spend the evening of our lives in thailand, my wife is english by the way, we still keep our home in oz as well,But we all remember our bible learning, "Go into a foreign land,partake of food and drink But resist the urge to invest more money in thailand than you can afford to walk away from dont by any waterbuffaloes ,please put everything inyour spouses name, and last but not least if it shall go pearshaped , resume a squatting position put your head between your legs and kiss your bum goodbye, smile gracefully say kop kuhn for the experience and leg it Here endeth the lesson. Nignoy

[ilyushin]

I think…It’s very good for your health and insanity...to be able to do this once awhile - Shouting out your frustrations and disappointments - as a stress management strategy in order to rebuild a new stress-resilient nature.

Right! True! Dang right! hel_l's bells yeah! Feel better already.

[ThaiPauly]

The reasons that many of us buy homes here is because we can afford to...and in the full knowledge that maybee someday we have to walk away from them..then maybee not.

I totally concur with your point about not risking more that you can afford to loose here, that phrase is a very common one on Thai Visa, and is used on a very regular basis.

I do not consider myself a stupid person (but I am no Einstein) and if my Marriage should fail I may well have to leave it all behind and move on...but I would not loose any sleep about loosing the money I had invested.. Thats Life..and life is about taking a certain amount of risk.

If foreigners were allowed to own land here then Land prices would rise significantly ,pricing the average Thai out of the Property Market..look what happened in London with the Arabs buying up great tranches of Land and Property. Then there were the Indians and Pakistanis working all the hours God sent to get themselves on the Property Ladder in the 70s (It was lawful so fair play to them) But the "Knock on" effect was enourmous. There are so many foreigners owning property in the capital that average Londoners were forced to move to "New Towns" becuase they simply could not afford to stay in the place their families had been for generations, thus splitting up tight nit communities, and the Government stood by and watched it happen

How poular do you think we would be if this was allowed to happen here?

TP

[Donz]

I stoped reading the OP's post after the first paragraph

[Guest endure]

I stoped reading the OP's post after the first paragraph

If you ever decide to get rid of the girlfriend and turn gay you can snuggle up to me any time you want

[Donz]

ummmm how about no

[Guest endure]

ummmm how about no

Well, it was worth a try Don't be offended, you'll make someone a wonderful husband

[simon43]

I think…It’s very good for your health and insanity...to be able to do this once awhile - Shouting out your frustrations and disappointments - as a stress management strategy in order to rebuild a new stress-resilient nature.

[\quote]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

OK - I feel a bit better now. Where's my medicine?

Simon

[Sir Burr]

Well, it was worth a try Don't be offended, you'll make someone a wonderful husband

Watch out Totster! Your current position as "gay icon" is under threat!

[Totster]

Endure....

totster

[AmeriThai]

One of the great things about TV is that there's seldom a dull moment to be found here.

[Postie]

I read the opening thread. I follow what you are saying. I can understand your sentiments.

I find it a bit late in the day to state something that is sooo obvious.

Long haul flights have transformed many parts of the world. WE create the marketplace. We drive the price up. Communications and convenience have CHANGED the place.

We are E Mail babbling from all over the Globe on TV!

IT has changed...Prices will always go up...MY pen RAI syndrome!

Enjoy it for what it is. I LOVE the PLACE.

[tourleadersi]

So in the 60's Thailand was great as at the time the US was racially discriminating against its own people whilst bombing the arse off of smaller nations? My how things have changed!

Last time I looked everywhere was going tits up. 2 Men just got life sentences in the UK for kicking a gay man to death because he was gay. The world changes continually and is filled with individual characters. We either sit at home reading our newspapers and bitch about how bad everything is, or we go on a search to find something better. Those that find Thailand to be better for whatever reason settle here. After a few years though the homesickness settles in and bad past memories begin to fade. It is important to focus on why you left, and always try and reconcile your present lot with that of the past.

If I ever tire of Thailand I simply go home to the UK. My parents live on the outskirts of a city and once in a while I hop on the public bus to go into town. Trust me, that is all I need to remember why I like Thailand so much.

To knock the people of Bangkok is lame. Bangkok is the capital. I remember with such fondness how the people of London, New York and Paris just charmed the socks off of me last time I was there. Bangkok is one of the friendliest cities I know. Perhaps it is the vibe you are sending out that makes you feel that way? So many people living in Thailand hate the city and so when they come here they look for reasons to justify their feelings. I love the countryside, but give me a wealth of choices anyday.

[Sing_Sling]

If the OP is comparing Thailand and Thais from the 60's and 70' to what now passes as the educated 'elite', then he is spot on.

I was born in Thailand in the 60's after my parents were posted here for their embassy tour for four years and they could not speak warmly enough about the people.

My parents have been frequent visitors since then and still have a few friends around from those days, Thais of course, and they themselves complain about the greed and corruption that has taken over the country.

Thailand has skipped decades of organic growth and has been thrust into modernity - this has not had a good effect on the people.

So, go ahead anf give the OP a hard time, but essentially he is correct.

[Meerkat]

OK, well to start with your data are completely wrong.

One does not have to spend 500k/rai minimum. My wife is buying land less that 90mins drive from BKK for under 200k/rai. One can also buy a three-bedroom semi-detached house in the suburbs of BKK for under 700k – NEW, so certainly not in need of refurbishment to make it “acceptable for foreigners” – a phrase I might add, that reeks of a cultural superiority complex. May I hazard a guess that, ceteris paribus, both land and houses are even cheaper the further one gets from major population/tourist centres?

My mother is putting a house in the UK on the market currently for GBP 250k. She bought it in the ‘60s for 2k – a price rise of over 12,000%.. We also sold a house bought in ’73 for GBP40k in ’01 for 850k, so the dramatic price rises in Thailand are hardly unique.

Next, exactly what are the so-called “rule changes” that the government introduced to make it harder for foreigners to buy land recently? I thought (and am happy to be corrected if I’m wrong) that the rules are more relaxed than they were previously – indeed arguably the tightest rule making it difficult for a part-foreign family to own land (the rule forbidding a Thai wife to own land after marrying a farang) has been repealed. Foreigners are now entitled to own certain apartments as well. Whilst we do not enjoy all the freedoms to own land as in many countries, at least it is moving in the right direction – at the timing of the Thais’ own choosing, rather than at the bidding of foreigners. If you are talking about last month’s tightening-up of foreigners buying land through fraudulent “companies”, then I’m sorry, but you can hardly blame the government from enforcing laws quite clearly already existing on the statute books.

Next, you complain that farmers and the like want to get a market rate for any land they might sell. I can’t fathom what you’re after here. You want them to sell at a cheaper rate so that the average Thai citizen can afford to buy it? But you’ve just been complaining about the difficulties a foreigner has in buying land here, so which is it? Allowing us to buy land directly in this country is only going to push prices in one direction, and put such land even further out of reach to many locals.

You claim that Thailand was 100% better throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s than it is now. Better for whom? Surely not for those Thais who now enjoy a considerably better standard of living than they did before. Surely not for the Thais who can now benefit from better medical care than before (and I don’t just mean the 30 baht programme – I mean across the board). Surely not for the Thais who now have a much better education system than 30 years ago. Surely not for the Thais who enjoy a better phone, electricity and transport infrastructure now. Look at the number of Thais driving new cars on the roads and compare it with what you saw even only going back 20 years. Compare that too with what you see in other Developing Countries. Look at the number of Thais who can now afford what only 10 years ago would have been classified as luxury goods.

There are problems associated with such an increase in wealth, such as you point out. Corruption, thievery and greed are rife throughout the world – both in Developed as well as in Developing Countries; Thailand certainly has no monopoly on these and is simply going through the growing pains that all countries go through.

Your point that the “real” people of Thailand are only found in the small villages, rather than in BKK is specious. BKK has enjoyed one of the fastest population growth rates of any capital city in the world. Where has the bulk of this growth come from? From the economic migration of exactly those people coming from the small villages who have come in search of a more prosperous livelihood for themselves and their families.

You seem to want Thailand to remain a bucolic backwater – a place where you can wake up in the morning to a cockerel crow, where the roads are free of cars, where your vistas are not tainted with the signs of a people growing wealthier through industrial development. A country still ruled by a military junta rather than an emerging democracy (albeit one that is still going through those same growing pains).

I do respect your right to have your own opinions, but I do also think they are seriously misguided.

[naka]

I stoped reading the OP's post after the first paragraph

Ok Donz, So why was it you Stoped (sic)

OP has a pretty good post I think.

Naka.

Edited June 17, 2006 by naka

[Sing_Sling]

You claim that Thailand was 100% better throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s than it is now. Better for whom? Surely not for those Thais who now enjoy a considerably better standard of living than they did before. Surely not for the Thais who can now benefit from better medical care than before (and I don’t just mean the 30 baht programme – I mean across the board). Surely not for the Thais who now have a much better education system than 30 years ago. Surely not for the Thais who enjoy a better phone, electricity and transport infrastructure now. Look at the number of Thais driving new cars on the roads and compare it with what you saw even only going back 20 years. Compare that too with what you see in other Developing Countries. Look at the number of Thais who can now afford what only 10 years ago would have been classified as luxury goods.

I guess it would be easy to dissect your post bit by bit, but that would be pointless, nor do I believe that the OP is looking to bring Thailand back into the 60's.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment that Thais now can get into debt for their new cars and can pay much higehr prices for their staples.

[Old Croc]

As for me, I have read too many negative comments to continue using this 'Forum'. It is really amazing to me how so many of these 'negative' members have 'zero' knowledge of my - education, profession, work experience, personal background, what I have 'gone through' or 'put up with' for the past 40 odd years, etc. - but profess to 'know me', or any other member, for that matter! They seem to want me to provide them with my detailed life history.

From today on, I will become like the approximately 95% of the membership that prefer not to comment or seek advice, etc. and stick to reading the comments and not participate in the 'forum' beyond that.

The OP posts similar threads to this every so often to stir up the rabble. After the last one, where he copped a fair bit of flack, he stated he would no longer participate in the forum.

What happened CR57020?

[Noel]

I stoped reading the OP's post after the first paragraph

Ok Donz, So why was it you Stoped (sic)

OP has a pretty good post I think.

Naka.

Possibly because Donz appears to have the attention span of a moribund Mayfly...?

That said, it was an interesting post, albeit most probably intended to wind a few people up.

The premise in the first paragraph bordered on fiction IMHO.

Very few people if any are daft enough to openly claim they come here for the 'culture', unless they are using their own definition of the word...

[naka]

I stoped reading the OP's post after the first paragraph

Ok Donz, So why was it you Stoped (sic)

OP has a pretty good post I think.

Naka.

Possibly because Donz appears to have the attention span of a moribund Mayfly...?

That said, it was an interesting post, albeit most probably intended to wind a few people up.

The premise in the first paragraph bordered on fiction IMHO.

Very few people if any are daft enough to openly claim they come here for the 'culture', unless they are using their own definition of the word...

Well said Noel ... espesially the "culture" bit.

Naka.

[Meerkat]

I guess it would be easy to dissect your post bit by bit, but that would be pointless, nor do I believe that the OP is looking to bring Thailand back into the 60's.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment that Thais now can get into debt for their new cars and can pay much higehr prices for their staples.

Your choice of phrase that Thais can now "get into debt" is not exactly fairly balanced. Certainly they can borrow money - who for instance buys a house in the UK or US for cash these days? Same for cars - credit is generally a good thing. Indeed for cars doubly so; Thais borrow money to buy cars which are (predominately) built in Thailand by Thais, thus enriching those same Thais to buy more - a virtuous circle if ever there was one. You make them sound like victims of usury.

[Postie]

This thread is bedding down to highlight some salient points.

The "observation" of Greed.

Doesn't more and more people gagging to spend their money produce a"Speculative" environment? The "landowner" (Thai) actually OWNING The Marketplace...relates directly to the fact...They would be retarded TO SELL IT OFF.

FARANG experience OVER HERE. Overview.oversight,oversimplify,oversized,oversleep,overspend,overspill,overstat

,overstay,

overstep,overstretch,overstrung,oversubscribe,overt,overtake,overtax,over the top,overthrow,

overtime,overtone,overture,overturn,overvalue,overview,overweening!overweight,overwhelm,

overwork,overwrought,(oviduct-to-ovum all "egg" related)...owe.

(Collins paperback English Dictionary. A section of OVER with no words excluded.)

Rocognise the RATrace infested cargo we brought with us?

Squeak!

[Sing_Sling]

What I'm referring to is the easy acquisition of loans in Thailand, without the education to go along with understanding what this actually entails.

Flash new cars for the average man are not a sign of social nor economic development - certainly not for the better.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Sing_Sling

[swissie]

Dear Chiangrai: Thanks for opening this thread. It was well overdue!

It sums it up quite well. The messed-up "Property-Situation" for Farangs is by now common knowledge: No further comment.

But still: What makes a Farang want to stay in a country, where the "Gouvernment" has decided a long time ago, that as long a "Farang" can be regarded as a walking ATM-Machine he/she is always welcome. No more, no less!

So why do "Farangs" want to stay in Thailand for the long run? Here are the answers:

- Regardless of what "Resident-Status" we have: We like Border-Runs and we like to to do battle with demented Immigraton-Officials, every time it comes to justify our stay (existence) in Thailand. This is paradise!

- We like the fact that we (as "Farangs"), are basically not allowed to engage in any legal commercial venture or work (whatsoever), that actually might enable us to simply make a living in paradise.

- We like Budhism: Nothing like it: Screw your neighbour and/or your best friend, as long you give the monks the next day a bowl of rice, you are forgiven, so you can repaet the same thing today, as long you supply your bowl of rice again the next day.

- We like swelthering heat and high humidity: There is no grater plaesure than leaving the Air-Condidioned Premises and find yourself soaking wet after walkin 100 yards. This is paradise.

- After having covered all the material needs of your Thai-Spouse and her family, you might find yourself suddenly at the Airport in Bankok, giving thanks to heaven, that your remaining funds are sufficient to cover your Air-Fare back to where you came from! This is paradise.

In stark contrast to the above: Once a Thai-National has reched the shores of a "Western-Contry" (usually by marriage):

- No Border-Runs.

- Can work in whatever field you want to work, as long as somebody hires you.

- No need to bother with Bhuddist-Rules of forgiving. Once reached "Western-Shores", you are allowed to screw anyone (including the Person that made your stay possible in the first place). = It's the law!

So then, in closing: Where exactly is Paradise and for whom?

Well, Thailand can not possibly be Paradise for a "Farang".

Or, (could this be, heaven forbid) that we are willing to put up with all this bullshit, so that we can enjoy the company of an uneducated, self-centered, moneyhungry, fast aging Thai-Female for a limited period of time?

Most certainly not! Right?

Cheers!

[thankuverybig]

oooerr,surely greed,corruption, & theivery isnt exclusive to thailand.more of a worldwide human nature thing,& always will be, me thinks.

i thought the bush family had been doing it for years (though probably not on theyre own doorstep).

i must admit i doubt i would buy property here,but for what im paying daily for my decent apartment i wouldnt be able to buy a bag of chips back home.

why do people want to buy property so much in thailand?