Ireland: 800 children mass grave - church 'has no records'

[webfact]

Tuam children's bodies: Catholic Church 'has no records'

TUAM: -- A Catholic archbishop in the Republic of Ireland has said the church has no records about the burial of nearly 800 children at a mother and baby home.

The remains were in a disused concrete septic tank at the County Galway home. The children, aged between two days and nine years, died between 1925 and 1961.

The grave in Tuam was found nearly 40 years ago, but was initially thought to be from the 1850s famine.

Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary said he was "greatly shocked" by the news.

"I was greatly shocked, as we all were, to learn of the extent of the numbers of children buried in the graveyard in Tuam.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27710206


-- BBC 2014-06-06

[Humberstone]

I read this story on the Guardian website and couldn't believe it. Truly shocking if all this is true.

[snottgoblin]

This just scratches the surface with regards to the systematic abuses carried out by The Catholic Church, in the name of religion. A vile, money grabbing institution that has allowed kiddy fiddlers and other monsters to hide behind the veil of doing good.

I can see why Tony Blair joined up, as hypocrisy is a pre requisite.

Edited June 6, 2014 by snottgoblin

[Carib]

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

I think it was meant in another way than starving them or just getting rid of them, or sexually abusing them.

The catholic church is an evil institution led by social misfits and pedophiles.

[Greer]

"Religion poisons everything." Christopher Hitchens

Absolutely right. The religions of the world have called for wars, murder, genocide, racism, and hypocrisy.

Disgusting!

[Fookhaht]

"Religion poisons everything." Christopher Hitchens

Absolutely right. The religions of the world have called for wars, murder, genocide, racism, and hypocrisy.

Disgusting!

Jesus was also very "anti-religious establishment." A read through the Gospels and this stands out prominently. In fact, his subversive-sounding pronouncements against the established religious apparatus of the time directly led to his death.

Instead of "religion" being the answer, he preached a direct, life-changing relationship with God. The result was to be a sweetening rather than a poisoning.

I agree with the poster above to a point (in reference to Christianity being a subset of "religions").

It's the twisting of the founder's teachings that put established "organized" Christianity on it's downward spiral. Just a cursory reading of the Gospels, and one sees such a stark contrast to most organized religions of today, especially the bulk of the "Christian church."

.

[Humberstone]

This just scratches the surface with regards to the systematic abuses carried out by The Catholic Church, in the name of religion. A vile, money grabbing institution that has allowed kiddy fiddlers and other monsters to hide behind the veil of doing good.

I can see why Tony Blair joined up, as hypocrisy is a pre requisite.

I agree, but would also add that the Irish state also seems to have been fully aware and even complicit in this tragic affair.

[Benmart]

This just scratches the surface with regards to the systematic abuses carried out by The Catholic Church, in the name of religion. A vile, money grabbing institution that has allowed kiddy fiddlers and other monsters to hide behind the veil of doing good.

I can see why Tony Blair joined up, as hypocrisy is a pre requisite.

I prefer to read and not pass judgement on a subject I know only from reading. Bigotry, hate and prejudice are well fed by others and do not need my hand or comments in attendance to this sordid meal.

Back to the main topic of the posting. Rest in Peace little ones.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Benmart

[AhFarangJa]

My son has just turned nine in April,

I look at him and I see a content happy individual who is just developing his own 'personality', Then it breaks my heart to think of those poor children who met such a miserable end, and probably never knew a happy childhood, regardless of which religious faction or government was to blame.... R.I.P. little ones.

[thumper101]

Wow, that is over 22 a year or almost one every 2 weeks for 36 years.

This needs a very thorough investigation.

At first I thought illegal abortion clinic run by a church sympathizer, but when pointed out up to from 2 days old and up to 9 years old... how can this be?

Seems more in line with just throwing unwanted kids into a pit.

Something VERY wrong has gone on at this place.

[wolf5370]

If those babies died as a result of willful neglect it's a shame for the Catholic church.

...but what about the multi-million baby holocaust that is happening under our noses today?

...it's called abortion..

Baby-killers, a.k.a the 'pro-choice' crowd are not qualified to judge.

800 children is barely a day's tally in abortion clinics across the world today.

Nuff said.

The age old question: At what point does life start? At what point is a life independent - and not just a cell growth of the mother? i.e. at what point is that life distinct?

However one's personal thoughts go, it is still subjective (or theological). However, 800 kids up to age nine is not subjective - they were alive.

[wolf5370]

"Religion poisons everything." Christopher Hitchens

Absolutely right. The religions of the world have called for wars, murder, genocide, racism, and hypocrisy.

Disgusting!

Jesus was also very "anti-religious establishment." A read through the Gospels and this stands out prominently. In fact, his subversive-sounding pronouncements against the established religious apparatus of the time directly led to his death.

Instead of "religion" being the answer, he preached a direct, life-changing relationship with God. The result was to be a sweetening rather than a poisoning.

I agree with the poster above to a point (in reference to Christianity being a subset of "religions").

It's the twisting of the founder's teachings that put established "organized" Christianity on it's downward spiral. Just a cursory reading of the Gospels, and one sees such a stark contrast to most organized religions of today, especially the bulk of the "Christian church."

.

Apart from the bible being put together by a Roman (Constantine) as a way of uniting his own people, and thus worded to make the Romans not the bad guys, but the Hebrew authorities. Not one Gospel was written within Christ's life time - or even just after (Mark was probably the earliest - and least mentioned at around 70AD the other 3 from 70-110AD) - and none were taken from writings, but from spoken stories (and differ markedly too).

I think what kills religion is its compunction to answer questions that it has no right to entertain, and then has to try to hide, twist and demonise any later evidence to contrary. Catholicism is most trapped this way as it imposes infallibility (once in all things - later refined to be religious things) - once a pope has determine something to be true - like creation - then it must be true as it is God inspired (and not a crusty old man making a decision based on little knowledge) - along comes evolution and .... well, Sarah Palin is still arguing it for them!

[wolf5370]

There was a TV programme (drama) on this year called "Quirke" which touched quite heavily on the Irish Catholic Church taking babies from single mothers (remember abortion and contraceptives were illegal for a long time there) and from widowed fathers (children could not be left with men as they would rape them - such was the wholesome thought!) - and then sold to American childless couples. There was also a Pierce Brosnan also stars in a true story movie called "Evelyn" about a man who is widowed and the state, along with the church, removes all 3 of his children from his care.

[wolf5370]

Wow, that is over 22 a year or almost one every 2 weeks for 36 years.

This needs a very thorough investigation.

At first I thought illegal abortion clinic run by a church sympathizer, but when pointed out up to from 2 days old and up to 9 years old... how can this be?

Seems more in line with just throwing unwanted kids into a pit.

Something VERY wrong has gone on at this place.

Probably deaths from abuse - these "orphanages" are infamous for their very harsh treatment and punishments of children in their care.

I would imagine this will become evident as they check the skeletal remains.

Edited June 6, 2014 by wolf5370

[HerbalEd]

Grave? Burial? In a septic tank?

[Pattszero]

Just another example of the toxic Catholicism that was allowed to run rampant in Ireland.

[Basil B]

This just scratches the surface with regards to the systematic abuses carried out by The Catholic Church, in the name of religion. A vile, money grabbing institution that has allowed kiddy fiddlers and other monsters to hide behind the veil of doing good.

I can see why Tony Blair joined up, as hypocrisy is a pre requisite.

I agree, but would also add that the Irish state also seems to have been fully aware and even complicit in this tragic affair.

I was of the understanding that the CC had a lot of influence in government of Eire, probably not the only religion to have influences on governments but along with the "lets have make as many children as possible" for the purpose of dominance.

Maybe you can understand why I am so much against catholic orphanages in a countries of another faith like Thailand, they are there for one purpose only, conversion.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Basil B

[thaimat]

A graveyard for nun's babies, no doubt.

[Albertosez]

Beliefs, faiths, religions - call them what ever you want, but the only purpose they serve IMHO is that they can control large group of people. If a large group of otherwise lunatics can be made to behave by listening to their leader - then there is probably a benefit to belonging to a faith or a religion. However, if you are a reasonably well educated individual and can make informed choices and decisions for yourself and feel no reason to follow anyone, then IMHO that is the best scenario !

I won't try and open up another can of worms here, on what is a sad story thread, but give me science every time ! If you can prove something by science then I can and will buy in to that, but if you can't prove it scientifically, then it's raised eyebrows for me !

[samran]

If those babies died as a result of willful neglect it's a shame for the Catholic church.

...but what about the multi-million baby holocaust that is happening under our noses today?

...it's called abortion..

Baby-killers, a.k.a the 'pro-choice' crowd are not qualified to judge.

800 children is barely a day's tally in abortion clinics across the world today.

Nuff said.

I'm terribly unconfortable with abortion at the best of times.

But what happened in Ireland was a product of the anti-abortion bigotry and zealotry of the church against unwed mothers who for who abortion was a best, illegal, and at worst, a sin. The kids are then subjet to the social stigma of the mindless puritans which led to this all too easily happening.

Your inflamatory comments, while they have their gleeful audience (who ironically mostly have no problem with capital punshiment), do nothing to help solve or repair this situation, or any for that matter. You are just sh!t stirrers.

Edited June 6, 2014 by samran

[klauskunkel]

800 children mass grave - church 'has no records'

A Catholic archbishop in the Republic of Ireland has said the church has no records about the burial of nearly 800 children at a mother and baby home.

Of course there are no records, because there were no burials, the bodes were dumped in a septic tank, you fool. I just hope they were dead already....

...and as for them all being children, well the Catholic Church's unwavering stand on contraception is well documented and I am sure you will find records on that in the Republic of Ireland...

Edited June 6, 2014 by klauskunkel

[Albertosez]

The Catholic Church is involved in almost any major decision in the Philippines ( sillyppines )......it beggars belief what sh*t they come out with over there ! Millions starving and living in poverty - but yet contraception is not allowed because the church says so ? Oh....and wait a minute, because that's not the stupidist part of it either - the Flippers listen and take notice of em because they are their leaders..........you couldn't make it up.....complete laughing stock !!

[jbaldwin]

The Catholic Church is involved in almost any major decision in the Philippines ( sillyppines )......it beggars belief what sh*t they come out with over there ! Millions starving and living in poverty - but yet contraception is not allowed because the church says so ? Oh....and wait a minute, because that's not the stupidist part of it either - the Flippers listen and take notice of em because they are their leaders..........you couldn't make it up.....complete laughing stock !!

Contraception not allowed in the Philippines? I am not sure when you were last there.

The influence of the Catholic Church is no longer anywhere near as great as you suggest.

I was in the Philippines when the reproductive health bill went though, I think about 18 months ago. Amongst other things this required sex education, inducing contraceptive advice, in all public school and provided contraceptives free of charge to people on low income though public health programs. Despite opposition from the Catholic Church this got sizable majorities both the house and senate and was supported by around 70% of the population - in a country which is 80% catholic.

[HeijoshinCool]

A Catholic archbishop in the Republic of Ireland has said the church has no records about the burial of nearly 800 children at a mother and baby home.

​Well, of course not. They weren't accorded the respect of burial, they were dumped in a septic tank along with fecal matter.

[wilsonf]

Quote

"The influence of the Catholic Church is no longer anywhere near as great as you suggest."

Thank God for that, considering all the abuse and atrocities its been responsible for world wide

And that's from someone who doesn't believe in God - But I do believe there is 'Something' but I don't know what

[wolf5370]

Beliefs, faiths, religions - call them what ever you want, but the only purpose they serve IMHO is that they can control large group of people. If a large group of otherwise lunatics can be made to behave by listening to their leader - then there is probably a benefit to belonging to a faith or a religion. However, if you are a reasonably well educated individual and can make informed choices and decisions for yourself and feel no reason to follow anyone, then IMHO that is the best scenario !

I won't try and open up another can of worms here, on what is a sad story thread, but give me science every time ! If you can prove something by science then I can and will buy in to that, but if you can't prove it scientifically, then it's raised eyebrows for me !

I agree - but might just add that science does not provide proofs, only maths does that. Science provides theories that stand until something better comes along - and there is plenty that we haven't a clue how it works and some that defies our theories so far (like entwined/complex/combines (lots of names) particles - we can make them, see them in action, but have no real idea of how they work given they defy the barrier of the speed of light - just one example). A hundred and twenty years ago, Newton was right, we were surrounded by an Ether in which light vibrated, radio waves were "interesting, but useless", the world was between than 5 and 20 million years old (and that's not the bible thumpers), the universe was static (even though it made no sense as to gravity), and so on - in a hundred years, they will laugh at what we think to be true (11 dimensional spacetime, quantum membranes trillions of times the size of the universe, black hole at the centre of the universe, in-built temporal law (that no one understands) that disallows backwards time travel when QM (and even Einstein) allows for it, etc). H3ll even E=MC^2 is no longer regarded as correct (replaced by E^2=M^2C^4+p^2C^2 )

[wolf5370]

Quote

"The influence of the Catholic Church is no longer anywhere near as great as you suggest."

Thank God for that, considering all the abuse and atrocities its been responsible for world wide

And that's from someone who doesn't believe in God - But I do believe there is 'Something' but I don't know what

Then why not name it God - easier to say than "Something, but I don't know what", because surely that is a good definition of God, eh?

[cooked]

Sinead o'connor was booed at Maddison Square Gardens because she had ripped a picture of the Pope a week or two earlier saying, "Fight the real enemy". It was all about this stuff. She then sang 'War'. Bob Dylan was standing right behind her and didn't move a finger. Kris Kristofferson moved in.

She was sexually abused as a child.

Edited June 6, 2014 by cooked

[luangtom]

If those babies died as a result of willful neglect it's a shame for the Catholic church.

...but what about the multi-million baby holocaust that is happening under our noses today?

...it's called abortion..

Baby-killers, a.k.a the 'pro-choice' crowd are not qualified to judge.

800 children is barely a day's tally in abortion clinics across the world today.

Nuff said.

NYC, in the USA, has over 35,000 abortions of African-American babies in one year. The 800 in the well in Ireland pales in comparison to the annual extermination of New York City babies that are African-American. Racial self-genocide. Sadly, the pro-choice crowd condones this and leaders of the African-American community are mute on the matter.

[peterb17]

If those babies died as a result of willful neglect it's a shame for the Catholic church.

...but what about the multi-million baby holocaust that is happening under our noses today?

...it's called abortion..

Baby-killers, a.k.a the 'pro-choice' crowd are not qualified to judge.

800 children is barely a day's tally in abortion clinics across the world today.

Nuff said.

NYC, in the USA, has over 35,000 abortions of African-American babies in one year. The 800 in the well in Ireland pales in comparison to the annual extermination of New York City babies that are African-American. Racial self-genocide. Sadly, the pro-choice crowd condones this and leaders of the African-American community are mute on the matter.

There will always be arguments for and against abortion- but in a way because these women were denied the possibility of the choice of an abortion they were probably forced to give up their babies into the care of the nuns.

Then that so many died is truly appalling.

Because they were illegitimate , they would be denied a decent burial by the Catholic church. I just cannot comprehend the mindset of those who just threw the tiny bodies into a cesspit. The church at its best.