U.K. Abolition of Tax Personal Allowance

[Old Guy]

This relates to a matter mentioned in the U.K. Budget a few weeks ago and referred to briefly in a Thai Visa post, but 'disappeared' as the matter was subsidiary to the main topic. It concerns the Government's desire to abolish the Income Tax personal allowance for all expats. The people who will be thus affected are pensioners like myself (if under 65 you will probably be working here in Thailand and subject only to Thai tax). The current rate starts at 20 % and the current allowance is around 10,000 pounds sterling per year. So abolition would mean a loss of 2,000 pounds p.a. -- at present exchange rate around 108,000 baht or 9,000 baht per month. This could make a huge difference to some people. This matter will be discussed at the Treasury this summer. There will be certain 'exceptions', being people with a close relationship with the mother country, whatever that means.

I feel this is grossly unfair on those who have moved to sunnier climes and whose pensions are already frozen.

Consequently I have written to the M.P. for Leeds (to where I would move if forced) Mr. Hilary Benn, who has taken up my concerns with the Chancellor George Osbourne. A reply has been received to the effect that my comments would be received at the conference in the summer. Meanwhile the Chancellor asked Mr. Benn to re-assure me that there will be no secret Courts deciding who will,and who will not, be eligible for being subject to the Allowance. Decisions on those worthy persons will be open and above board.

I wonder if anyone else has become involved in this matter ?

[jonesthepost]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

[worgeordie]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

[ktm jeff]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

[howerde]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Indeed Sir the pot is empty, i can see the state pension becoming just another benifit, those who bothered to save in private pensions getting pennies, at least i'm not in my thirites, they won't see it or they will be waiting til their mid-late 70's to get a bit.

[davejones23]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

[davejones23]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

[davejones23]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

[transam]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

........................Thats why the pot-less are queuing up in tents at Calais is it, noooooooo freebies........

[Jip99]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

I did look after myself by contributing 35 years of NICs in the knowledge that that made be eligible for a state pension.

If the UK government want to take me out of the system by providing my personal pot of what I paid in ++ then I will take my chances of fully looking after myself without further burden on them.

[paulmw]

davejones23, on 09 Jun 2014 - 13:43, said:

nigel jeffrey, on 08 Jun 2014 - 23:55, said:

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

Nothing to do with relying on the government I paid in to my pension for over 42 years.

[davejones23]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

........................Thats why the pot-less are queuing up in tents at Calais is it, noooooooo freebies........

They are queuing up to find work not to get freebies. They have a better work ethic than most Brits. Maybe you need to get back to the UK and talk to immigrants. You'll then see that 90%+ don't get any state help. Many start with nothing and still manage to make a living. Unlike many Brits who can't last a day without help.

[davejones23]

davejones23, on 09 Jun 2014 - 13:43, said:

nigel jeffrey, on 08 Jun 2014 - 23:55, said:

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

Nothing to do with relying on the government I paid in to my pension for over 42 years.

There is no government pension to pay into. If you're talking about your NI contributions, that's for current spending, not pensions. But even if you think it was pension payments, then you're still relying on UK governments to keep their word and pay you. Personally I don't trust them enough to reply on them. Obviously I hope they will stick to their word and give me a pension, but if they don't I'll still be ok. So that's what I mean - make your ow arrangements and think of your UK pension as a nice bonus if you get it.

[transam]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

........................Thats why the pot-less are queuing up in tents at Calais is it, noooooooo freebies........

They are queuing up to find work not to get freebies. They have a better work ethic than most Brits. Maybe you need to get back to the UK and talk to immigrants. You'll then see that 90%+ don't get any state help. Many start with nothing and still manage to make a living. Unlike many Brits who can't last a day without help.

So why has the UK gov ADMITTED they have LOST 500,000 foreigners in the UK.........?

This 500,000 are starving on the streets......?

Are they paying tax and NI...........?

Get your head out your.........................

[davejones23]

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

........................Thats why the pot-less are queuing up in tents at Calais is it, noooooooo freebies........

They are queuing up to find work not to get freebies. They have a better work ethic than most Brits. Maybe you need to get back to the UK and talk to immigrants. You'll then see that 90%+ don't get any state help. Many start with nothing and still manage to make a living. Unlike many Brits who can't last a day without help.

So why has the UK gov ADMITTED they have LOST 500,000 foreigners in the UK.........?

This 500,000 are starving on the streets......?

Are they paying tax and NI...........?

Get your head out your.........................

If they were on benefits, then they'd be in the system and known about. They are working or gone home. UK doesn't track people leaving, so they could be anywhere in the world. Just because the government doesn't know where they are doesn't mean they are in the UK.

Get your head out your ....

[TommyUK1960]

Will this be every ex-pat or just those outside the EU area? It's a massive tax increase for us expats.

What is the criteria for maintaining UK residency for tax purpose? (How many days do you have to spend in the UK)

[NoshowJones]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

[TommyUK1960]

possum1931, on 09 Jun 2014 - 20:13, said:

jonesthepost, on 08 Jun 2014 - 16:58, said:

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

Its not UKIP proposing this it's this stupid coalition government.

[nontabury]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Rubbish!.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[davejones23]

Will this be every ex-pat or just those outside the EU area? It's a massive tax increase for us expats.

What is the criteria for maintaining UK residency for tax purpose? (How many days do you have to spend in the UK)

It's still in consultation stage, so no real details are available yet. Hopefully it won't happen. But if it does you'll need to wait until the details are finalised.

I think you can just elect to be resident for tax purposes by just claiming you plan to return, or even giving a UK address.

[sustento]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

[MAJIC]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Another scared Conservative!

[MAJIC]

davejones23, on 09 Jun 2014 - 13:43, said:

nigel jeffrey, on 08 Jun 2014 - 23:55, said:

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

Nothing to do with relying on the government I paid in to my pension for over 42 years.

Correct! the Government do not have any money of their own,it's the peoples money. Right now what will pay your State Pension is having Contributed 30 years of National Insurance Contributions. But even that which is earned, has been labelled by the Government as a Benefit! just so you know your place in the Heirarchy.

Personally I would like to label MPs Salary as a unearned Benefit,and MPs expenses as Fraud/Theft, subject to Jail Time!

[NoshowJones]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

MPs are MPs and UK MPs of both Labour and Tory are all lieing hypocritical bastards, I daresay UKIP MPS would be the same, and if, and that's a big if, Scotland gets it's independence, their MPs will be the same.

All those capitalist rich bastards are the same, take what you can from the ordinary people and give nothing back.

[Old Guy]

Just to clarify my original post, I set out below the exact wording taken from the recent Budget:

H.M. Treasury HC1104 Personal Tax and Welfare Section 2.67.

The U.K. Personal Allowance and People who are not Resident in the U.K.

"The U.K. now has one of the most generous personal allowances in the world. To ensure this remains well targeted, this Government intends to consult on whether or how the allowance could be restricted to U.K. residents and those living overseas who have strong economic connections in the U.K., as is the case in many countries, including most of the E.U."

My thinking is that whereas the U.K. may have a high personal allowance compated to the E.U., it also has one of the lowest state pensions. I also note that it was stated in the Queen's speech last week that personal allowances will be increased -- presumably for those in the U.K. only and, it therefore seems,to be funded by us expat pensioners. I have reminded Hilary Benn of this fact which, hopefully, will make good ammunition in future discussions.

[PattayaPhom]

Expats will always be the easy target,they freeze the pensions,while

letting the riff raff of the world in, who seem to get everything no

problem,human rights,you know.

regards worgeordie

Not true at all. While there are some abuses of UK system, it's hard for riff raff to get into and settle in UK. They don't get everything, as you claim. I think you've been reading and believing too many scare stories. While many are true, they are more isolated cases than the norm. Try talking to some of these riff raff, as you call them, and see what they get. Nothing usually. They make their own way in life. The riff raff bleeding the UK dry and mostly British riff raff.

........................Thats why the pot-less are queuing up in tents at Calais is it, noooooooo freebies........

They are queuing up to find work not to get freebies. They have a better work ethic than most Brits. Maybe you need to get back to the UK and talk to immigrants. You'll then see that 90%+ don't get any state help. Many start with nothing and still manage to make a living. Unlike many Brits who can't last a day without help.

By working illegaly and on the black market, hence not paying taxes or N.I. running taxis without appropriate insurance, restaurants without health checks, the list is endless....and I would say its the opposite...90% claim and only 10% work....you say the Brits dont work as hard as foreigners, yet say that staement the other way round you would be arrested, prosecuted and probably imprisoned.

[sandyf]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

Very interesting point. Back in the eighties people were given the option of opting out of SERPS. I wonder if those that opted out fared any better than those that stayed in.

I had a small personal pension plan but I froze it in the nineties because the annual increase was less than the premiums.

[Bpuumike]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

[wolf5370]

Will this be every ex-pat or just those outside the EU area? It's a massive tax increase for us expats.

What is the criteria for maintaining UK residency for tax purpose? (How many days do you have to spend in the UK)

It's still in consultation stage, so no real details are available yet. Hopefully it won't happen. But if it does you'll need to wait until the details are finalised.

I think you can just elect to be resident for tax purposes by just claiming you plan to return, or even giving a UK address.

I doubt it will go anywhere - doesn't take a genius to see what will happen. Many pensioners that now live on frozen pensions suddenly flocking back to the UK with no homes or incomes, with health problems and needing full social welfare support - it will simply not add up. If we think average of 2000 per year per person extra in tax (minus the costs of collecting) then compare that to full needs if they return to the UK - and many outside of the EU would have to.

[Bpuumike]

Will this be every ex-pat or just those outside the EU area? It's a massive tax increase for us expats.

What is the criteria for maintaining UK residency for tax purpose? (How many days do you have to spend in the UK)

It's still in consultation stage, so no real details are available yet. Hopefully it won't happen. But if it does you'll need to wait until the details are finalised.

I think you can just elect to be resident for tax purposes by just claiming you plan to return, or even giving a UK address.

Anyone feel free to correct me but as I understand, If UK-resident for tax purposes then you are liable for UK income tax on your worldwide income.

As non-UK resident for tax purposes you are only liable for UK income tax on income generated in the UK.

Can't have it both ways, though the politicians do give it to us both ways.