rotary Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 i would be skeptical of any official statistic. You mean the Thai Government is like the US Government? They might put out figures with a "spin". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ...define employment........work........salary........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. I did read recently that out of the 70 million population here, only 2 million pay any sort of income tax. Seems a very low percentage. That would be about right, all the shop workers at 7-11, Family Mart etc etc, and in the many shopping centres do not pay tax. But out of the 70 million, (is it not 65 M) population, how many are not of employable age, and are bringing up families etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrya Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If in Australia, every employer (Small Business) was forced to employ a minimum of 4 local staff and record them on their books, then of course, Australia would have 0 Unemployment. With so many Thai's working in a Cash Society and very limited number that actually pay Tax, then how would they have a clue on what their Unemployment Rate was ? Do you think the USA counts the people who are unemployed to get their unemployment rate? Do you think the USA checks the tax rolls to find out if people work or not? Do you have a clue how Thailand figures unemployment? haha. Nohow. If you see an number as great as 0,7 then you must know that they DO NOT measure unemployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. I did read recently that out of the 70 million population here, only 2 million pay any sort of income tax. Seems a very low percentage. That would be about right, all the shop workers at 7-11, Family Mart etc etc, and in the many shopping centres do not pay tax. But out of the 70 million, (is it not 65 M) population, how many are not of employable age, and are bringing up families etc? The unemployment rate is not computed based on people who pay tax. Tax payer or not has nothing to do with the unemployment rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman77 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 How the statistics has been made? Don't know any place where people have to report when not have work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) You are on the wrong track using population. Thailand's low unemployment number comes from the ready availability of work as agricultural labor. http://web.nso.go.th/en/survey/data_survey/560624_Summary_Labor_%20May57.pdf In May 2014, the total number of unemployed persons were 0.36 million or 0.9% of the total labor force and increased of 58 thousand (from 0.30 milli onto 0.36 million) comparing to the same period as in 2013. And, it showed an increase of 18 thousand (from 0.34 million to 0.36 million) in April 2014. Out of 0.36 million, there were 0.16 million having never worked (94 thousand were male and 108 thousand were female) and 0.20 million had ever, among these, the number of unemployed persons who ever worked increased by 32 thousand (from 0.13 million to 0.16 million), comparing to the same period as in 2013. It was found that 0.20 million distributed in 3 sectors i.e. 72 thousand in services and trade, 51 thousand in manufacturing and 37 thousand in agriculture. So in answer to your statement, no there were also unemployed persons in agriculture. Edited June 25, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesofa Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. I did read recently that out of the 70 million population here, only 2 million pay any sort of income tax. Seems a very low percentage. That would be about right, all the shop workers at 7-11, Family Mart etc etc, and in the many shopping centres do not pay tax. But out of the 70 million, (is it not 65 M) population, how many are not of employable age, and are bringing up families etc? The unemployment rate is not computed based on people who pay tax. Tax payer or not has nothing to do with the unemployment rate. A bit confused about the above post, regading the unemployment rate based on people who pay tax. I can't see that anyone above has said the two are linked? They are two separate statement from the way I read it. BTW I originally put the Thai population at about 70 million, some one has suggested it is 65 million. I based 70 miilion on this: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/thailand-population-2013/ stating it as 69.52 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I did read recently that out of the 70 million population here, only 2 million pay any sort of income tax. Seems a very low percentage. That would be about right, all the shop workers at 7-11, Family Mart etc etc, and in the many shopping centres do not pay tax. But out of the 70 million, (is it not 65 M) population, how many are not of employable age, and are bringing up families etc? The unemployment rate is not computed based on people who pay tax. Tax payer or not has nothing to do with the unemployment rate. A bit confused about the above post, regading the unemployment rate based on people who pay tax. I can't see that anyone above has said the two are linked? They are two separate statement from the way I read it. BTW I originally put the Thai population at about 70 million, some one has suggested it is 65 million. I based 70 miilion on this: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/thailand-population-2013/ stating it as 69.52 million. http://web.nso.go.th/ The unemployment number has nothing to do with tax as suggested in the OP. It is the result of a survey. They don't ask everyone. They ask a sample and apply those findings to the whole population. The same way it is done in the USA and many other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ...define employment........work........salary........ http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/Pages/index1.aspx All of the information is at the above link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Let's not forget that many foreign run companies must have a 4 to 1 Thai/expat employee ratio. I wouldn't want to pay a penny for every Thai ID card that is used just for attaining that ratio. Result: skewed low unemployment rate. Absolute nonsense. Investigate the method the data is collected and you will find the truth, http://web.nso.go.th/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Do hookers count as employed or unemployed? Self-employed, I suppose. A nifty category where you can stick practically any one in order to clean up stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catweazle Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I think this number represents only the Thais that made the effort of going to the labour department and sign in as unemployed to find a job this way. When I look around, I see a lot of mopes just hanging out, gambling, drinking and loafing, having the missus do all the work and put money on the table. However, everyone seems to be getting along just fine more or less - this happens when the government simply does not provide a system inviting freeloaders to cash in tax payer's money for doing nothing like for example in Germany, where the social safety net system punishes the working man and rewards the lazy ones who - in third generation - are unemployed by choice, nibbling crisps and watching telly all day, simply cashing in their government checks every 1st of the month... Edited June 25, 2014 by catweazle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think this number represents only the Thais that made the effort of going to the labour department and sign in as unemployed to find a job this way. When I look around, I see a lot of mopes just hanging out, gambling, drinking and loafing, having the missus do all the work and put money on the table. However, everyone seems to be getting along just fine more or less - this happens when the government simply does not provide a system inviting freeloaders to cash in tax payer's money for doing nothing like for example in Germany, where the social safety net system punishes the working man and rewards the lazy ones who - in third generation - are unemployed by choice, eating crisps and watching telly all day, simply cashing in their government checks every 1st of the month... The Thai unemployment rate is not based on Thais going to the labor department to sign in. The unemployment rate in the USA is not based on people going to the unemployment office to sign in either. In Thailand and the USA the unemployment rate is based on a sample survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvavin Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not kidding, everywhere in Thailand be it private or civil sectors are over-staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There's no way the Thai figure is comparable to official figures from overseas. Even those from overseas, Australia for example, grossly under estimate unemployment. If you are doing one hour a week work, you are considered employed by the census bureau (I was once selected to partake in a census, and asked about that when I was surveyed). Many Thais are unemployed or work low hours on low salaries. I highly doubt my graduate students are 98% fully employed (or even 50%) after they graduate. In fact, full time employment rates of graduates are low here, or get menial jobs outside their field of expertise. 0.7% is a fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesofa Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. I did read recently that out of the 70 million population here, only 2 million pay any sort of income tax. Seems a very low percentage. That would be about right, all the shop workers at 7-11, Family Mart etc etc, and in the many shopping centres do not pay tax. But out of the 70 million, (is it not 65 M) population, how many are not of employable age, and are bringing up families etc? The unemployment rate is not computed based on people who pay tax. Tax payer or not has nothing to do with the unemployment rate. In the original post I didn't mention anything about tax. However, in a susequent post from daveAustin (see above) he mentioned about tax revenue, to which I replied generally about the low number of people paying tax in Thailand, but I didn't mean it to be linked to the unemployment figures. Sorry if it caused confusion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) There's no way the Thai figure is comparable to official figures from overseas. Even those from overseas, Australia for example, grossly under estimate unemployment. If you are doing one hour a week work, you are considered employed by the census bureau (I was once selected to partake in a census, and asked about that when I was surveyed). Many Thais are unemployed or work low hours on low salaries. I highly doubt my graduate students are 98% fully employed (or even 50%) after they graduate. In fact, full time employment rates of graduates are low here, or get menial jobs outside their field of expertise. 0.7% is a fantasy. Aussie unemployment survey is conducted the same way. The conceptual framework used in Australia’s Labour Force Survey aligns closely with the standards and guidelines set out in Resolutions of International Conferences of Labour Statisticians. For Thailand see "http://web.nso.go.th/know/offstatun.pdf" Both Australia and Thailand use the survey method as opposed to any form of direct counting of unemployed or employed people. Edited June 25, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not kidding, everywhere in Thailand be it private or civil sectors are over-staff! Thank you for telling us. So how long did it take you to see everywhere in Thailand? My doctor has one nurse. Is he overstaffed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think this number represents only the Thais that made the effort of going to the labour department and sign in as unemployed to find a job this way. When I look around, I see a lot of mopes just hanging out, gambling, drinking and loafing, having the missus do all the work and put money on the table. However, everyone seems to be getting along just fine more or less - this happens when the government simply does not provide a system inviting freeloaders to cash in tax payer's money for doing nothing like for example in Germany, where the social safety net system punishes the working man and rewards the lazy ones who - in third generation - are unemployed by choice, eating crisps and watching telly all day, simply cashing in their government checks every 1st of the month... The Thai unemployment rate is not based on Thais going to the labor department to sign in. The unemployment rate in the USA is not based on people going to the unemployment office to sign in either. In Thailand and the USA the unemployment rate is based on a sample survey. Thailiketoo, When we get to page five of this thread, can you please tell us again how the unemployment rate is determined, because I think posters will need to be told this a fifth time so that they can ignore it again! T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not kidding, everywhere in Thailand be it private or civil sectors are over-staff!Thank you for telling us. So how long did it take you to see everywhere in Thailand? My doctor has one nurse. Is he overstaffed? Suan Dok hospital in CM seems to have one nurse for every two patients, 10-20 in a ward. Same in NakornPing and CM Neurological. In the USA it was one nurse per ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think this number represents only the Thais that made the effort of going to the labour department and sign in as unemployed to find a job this way. When I look around, I see a lot of mopes just hanging out, gambling, drinking and loafing, having the missus do all the work and put money on the table. However, everyone seems to be getting along just fine more or less - this happens when the government simply does not provide a system inviting freeloaders to cash in tax payer's money for doing nothing like for example in Germany, where the social safety net system punishes the working man and rewards the lazy ones who - in third generation - are unemployed by choice, eating crisps and watching telly all day, simply cashing in their government checks every 1st of the month... The Thai unemployment rate is not based on Thais going to the labor department to sign in. The unemployment rate in the USA is not based on people going to the unemployment office to sign in either. In Thailand and the USA the unemployment rate is based on a sample survey. Thailiketoo, When we get to page five of this thread, can you please tell us again how the unemployment rate is determined, because I think posters will need to be told this a fifth time so that they can ignore it again! T Seems like no one can believe that Western countries don't actually count people who register for benefits or sign some kind of tax form or do something that indicates they are not working. They can't grasp the reality that the unemployment rate is an estimation based on a survey in most countries. If they succeed in grasping the survey method the fall back position is all Thais lie because of anecdotal personal experiences with a tiny segment of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not kidding, everywhere in Thailand be it private or civil sectors are over-staff!Thank you for telling us. So how long did it take you to see everywhere in Thailand? My doctor has one nurse. Is he overstaffed? Suan Dok hospital in CM seems to have one nurse for every two patients, 10-20 in a ward. Same in NakornPing and CM Neurological. In the USA it was one nurse per ward. One of the reasons that medical care is better in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think this number represents only the Thais that made the effort of going to the labour department and sign in as unemployed to find a job this way. When I look around, I see a lot of mopes just hanging out, gambling, drinking and loafing, having the missus do all the work and put money on the table. However, everyone seems to be getting along just fine more or less - this happens when the government simply does not provide a system inviting freeloaders to cash in tax payer's money for doing nothing like for example in Germany, where the social safety net system punishes the working man and rewards the lazy ones who - in third generation - are unemployed by choice, eating crisps and watching telly all day, simply cashing in their government checks every 1st of the month... The Thai unemployment rate is not based on Thais going to the labor department to sign in. The unemployment rate in the USA is not based on people going to the unemployment office to sign in either. In Thailand and the USA the unemployment rate is based on a sample survey. Thailiketoo,When we get to page five of this thread, can you please tell us again how the unemployment rate is determined, because I think posters will need to be told this a fifth time so that they can ignore it again! T Seems like no one can believe that Western countries don't actually count people who register for benefits or sign some kind of tax form or do something that indicates they are not working. They can't grasp the reality that the unemployment rate is an estimation based on a survey in most countries. If they succeed in grasping the survey method the fall back position is all Thais lie because of anecdotal personal experiences with a tiny segment of the population. The guiding principle is: never let facts or logic get in the way of a good Thai bash rant.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. Monks ? How about the thousands of people operating completely under the radar in cash economies from CM to Phuket ? I admire their entrepreneurial spirit, but it cant do a whole lot for the tax base in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The Thai unemployment rate is not based on Thais going to the labor department to sign in. The unemployment rate in the USA is not based on people going to the unemployment office to sign in either. In Thailand and the USA the unemployment rate is based on a sample survey. Thailiketoo, When we get to page five of this thread, can you please tell us again how the unemployment rate is determined, because I think posters will need to be told this a fifth time so that they can ignore it again! T Seems like no one can believe that Western countries don't actually count people who register for benefits or sign some kind of tax form or do something that indicates they are not working. They can't grasp the reality that the unemployment rate is an estimation based on a survey in most countries. If they succeed in grasping the survey method the fall back position is all Thais lie because of anecdotal personal experiences with a tiny segment of the population. I almost wish I hadn't started this thread! However, I have just been looking at how unemployment is measured in the UK, as I quoted a comparision between Thailand and the UK. This is from http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2291/unemployment/how-unemployment-is-calculated/ This seems to say there is some counting of people seeking work as well as estimating it: In the UK, there are two main ways of measuring unemployment. The Labour Force Survey involves asking people whether they are – out of working and actively seeking work. The Claimant Count Method counts the number of people receiving Job Seekers Allowance (JSA). Not everyone who considers themselves unemployed is eligible for JSA. Hence there is a difference in the numbers. As you can see in the above graph, the difference between the Labour Force Survey and Claimant Count has increased in recent years. This is due to the fact it is more difficult to get JSA and more unemployed are either not getting benefits or are receiving other ‘non-unemployment’ related benefits like disability benefit. The UK government statistics website http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/labour-market/people-not-in-work/unemployment seems to say it is only estimated: Unemployment levels measure the total number of people estimated to be unemployed while unemployment rates allow changes in the labour market to be interpreted in a wider context by allowing for changes in the population. The headline measure of unemployment for the UK is the unemployment rate for those aged 16 and over. Australia - survey method. USA - survey method since 1940. Thailand - Survey method. Germany - Survey method*. UK- both. * I think Germany uses a survey but not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 there is no way they can have a clue about how many people are out of work, no dole, no unemployment off ice, I would bet the number of bin scavengers is more than they claim are unemployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 there is no way they can have a clue about how many people are out of work, no dole, no unemployment off ice, I would bet the number of bin scavengers is more than they claim are unemployed. You don't read? I think this is the 6 time it has been posted. http://web.nso.go.th/ Most countries don't use the dole or unemployment office to figure unemployment rates including Thailand. Read the link and you will become educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Can't be compared with a first world country I'm afraid. Op, you need to take into consideration it takes like three foot-shufflers to do a one-man job here. Also, are monks considered as unemployed in those dubious figures! Not much tax revenue there. Monks ? How about the thousands of people operating completely under the radar in cash economies from CM to Phuket ? I admire their entrepreneurial spirit, but it cant do a whole lot for the tax base in this country. The tax base is probably made up by dumb farangs paying over the odds for their farang imported goods with 300% tax rates. I was in a major mall the other day, The Mall Bang Kapi, on the second floor is a car showroom selling Citreon cars, 1.6 million baht, about double the price of a similair Mazda/Ford/Honda, insert whatever car you want. Who the heck in their right mind would buy one, why the heck would Citreon even try and sell cars here with that sort of mark up. I was stuck at a red light the other day, infront of me was a Farmhouse delivery truck, written on the back door, drivers wanted, monthly salary from 18-25k per month, I was walking by a lampost the other day, adverts for cleaners in Bkk, 500 baht per day. An accquaintance has had an advert out looking for a/c technicians, 500 baht per day, no takers. Another friend building houses cant get proper tradesmen to work for less than 750 baht per day, for some trades the going daily rate is 1,000 baht per day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongteesood Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 It's all the bad people sent to 'inactive posts' that do it, if they were actually fired as I am sure a great many deserve to be then the real unemployment rate would probably rival the USA's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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