Phuket airport Immigration "schemes"

[hawker9000]

Update: took me 45min to pass through immigration last night. A immigration guy is still telling ppl in the queue about using the express lane for 100baht per person. Signs are up on the unmanned counters " out of order". Getting more intelligent by the day.

Are those who pay their 100baht and availing themselves getting the same passport scrutiny others are getting these days? Or is this the solution if you're one of those with lots of back-to-back stamps and visas in your passport?

The same scrutiny....would be a pretty cheap way to get through immigration with dodgy back to back tourist visas.

In the below thread, Immigration Officials said flying into Thailand basically circumvents "the same scutiny" as overland boarder crossings. Go figure.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

"Immigration officials then told the individuals that they would need to take a bus to Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia, and fly in to Thailand instead."

...until August 12th, which is when all this is supposed to "cut in" at the airports.

[NamKangMan]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

[hawker9000]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

I confess I don't know (how airlines can be held accountable under this new regime). 'Just one of the many reasons why the importance of thinking things all the way through, predictability, and consistency are necessities Thailand seems to have decided they're going to just ignore in all this. I've never been there, but I don't think I'd like staying at the detention center much. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but given a choice between the IDC and going out-of-pocket to get back home or some other place, I'd certainly choose the option with the inflight meal & crying babies. And I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I don't think "denied entry" equates to "deportation". How many is a few and how many is a lot I don't know - but I actually think there are likely to be more than enough airport denials to make the news, even if not technically "deportations".

Aug 12th was clearly and repeatedly announced as the date when all this was supposed to be imposed at the airports. At first, I must admit I was just a bit skeptical of the persistency & intensity of this whole immigration crackdown thing. The last couple of months have convinced me however that it, including the 12AUG airport date, definitely wasn't just bluff & bluster... Like everybody else, I'll be watching to see just what happens beginning on that day. It's possible there'll be a voice of reason from somewhere up in the political stratosphere by then, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

[Peterocket]

How can they be working people through so fast if exercising this kind of scrutiny?

Because the express line has 3 officers manning it and only about 5 people queuing to get through.

[NamKangMan]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

I confess I don't know (how airlines can be held accountable under this new regime). 'Just one of the many reasons why the importance of thinking things all the way through, predictability, and consistency are necessities Thailand seems to have decided they're going to just ignore in all this. I've never been there, but I don't think I'd like staying at the detention center much. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but given a choice between the IDC and going out-of-pocket to get back home or some other place, I'd certainly choose the option with the inflight meal & crying babies. And I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I don't think "denied entry" equates to "deportation". How many is a few and how many is a lot I don't know - but I actually think there are likely to be more than enough airport denials to make the news, even if not technically "deportations".

Aug 12th was clearly and repeatedly announced as the date when all this was supposed to be imposed at the airports. At first, I must admit I was just a bit skeptical of the persistency & intensity of this whole immigration crackdown thing. The last couple of months have convinced me however that it, including the 12AUG airport date, definitely wasn't just bluff & bluster... Like everybody else, I'll be watching to see just what happens beginning on that day. It's possible there'll be a voice of reason from somewhere up in the political stratosphere by then, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

If I was detained at a Thai Airport, I have no problem buying the first air ticket out.

No need to go back to my home country, I will just get a short flight to another South East Asian nation, probably Cambodia or Malaysia, as they are visa on arrival, and a visa exemption stamp. From there, I can plan for the future.

Given the possible arrival time of my flight, I may have to spend one night in detention. I would suggest, so will many others.

As I am under 50, self funded and not married, I guess that leaves the Ed Visa, which is also being cracked down on, or setting up a Thai Company structure, as my only means of living in Thailand.

I think I will slip through the net, with the method I have been using to date, but would be happy to hear from any members that have been detained by Immigration, at any Thai Airport.

In detention, do you have access to the internet and a printer, to buy your air ticket out, or do they escort you to an airline sales office and/or ATM?

I can only imagine, after the 12 August, they are going to be very busy throwing people out of Thailand, so busy in fact, that the demand for Consular Assistance may see this make global news.

There may be a seperate express immigration line - straight to the detention room/s.

[KarenBravo]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

[hawker9000]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

Unhappily, no, that's not "it". Though it certainly doesn't hurt, an onward ticket is no guarantee of permission to enter under this new regime if the IO should make the determination, from a study of your passport, that you're "not a tourist".

[KarenBravo]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

Unhappily, no, that's not "it". Though it certainly doesn't hurt, an onward ticket is no guarantee of permission to enter under this new regime if the IO should make the determination, from a study of your passport, that you're "not a tourist".

I'm talking about BEFORE you get to Thailand. Nothing to do with immigration.

Airlines in some countries are already stopping you from boarding a flight IF you don't have a visa OR have an onward ticket.

My point is that ALL airlines, no matter what country you start out in, will be doing these checks.

If immigration does deny visa exempt entry, the airline is covered because they have checked for the onward ticket. If they were denied entry even though they had a visa, the airline is still off the hook as they already checked for the visa.

That is the limit of their responsibility.

Previously, you could fly into Thailand without either a visa, or an onward ticket. Especially from other Asian countries. That will not be the case from now on.

Edited July 15, 2014 by KarenBravo

[hawker9000]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

Unhappily, no, that's not "it". Though it certainly doesn't hurt, an onward ticket is no guarantee of permission to enter under this new regime if the IO should make the determination, from a study of your passport, that you're "not a tourist".

I'm talking about BEFORE you get to Thailand. Nothing to do with immigration.

Airlines in some countries are already stopping you from boarding a flight IF you don't have a visa OR have an onward ticket.

My point is that ALL airlines, no matter what country you start out in, will be doing these checks.

If immigration does deny visa exempt entry, the airline is covered because they have checked for the onward ticket. If they were denied entry even though they had a visa, the airline is still off the hook as they already checked for the visa.

That is the limit of their responsibility.

Previously, you could fly into Thailand without either a visa, or an onward ticket. Especially from other Asian countries. That will not be the case from now on.

You might be right (about the airline being "covered" by having done its checks). I'm not sure if that's the beginning & end of it or not (the suggestion I'm responding to is that that's not all there to it). For all I know, there could be some blanket policy or agreement that does require the airline to return a passenger who has been denied entry for any reason. Or not. Whatever the case, Thai Immigration would be wise to NOT try dragging the airlines into this mess. As long as Thailand doesn't make that mistake, the airlines would probably be glad for the extra travel volume...

[stevenl]

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

Unhappily, no, that's not "it". Though it certainly doesn't hurt, an onward ticket is no guarantee of permission to enter under this new regime if the IO should make the determination, from a study of your passport, that you're "not a tourist".

I'm talking about BEFORE you get to Thailand. Nothing to do with immigration.

Airlines in some countries are already stopping you from boarding a flight IF you don't have a visa OR have an onward ticket.

My point is that ALL airlines, no matter what country you start out in, will be doing these checks.

If immigration does deny visa exempt entry, the airline is covered because they have checked for the onward ticket. If they were denied entry even though they had a visa, the airline is still off the hook as they already checked for the visa.

That is the limit of their responsibility.

Previously, you could fly into Thailand without either a visa, or an onward ticket. Especially from other Asian countries. That will not be the case from now on.

You might be right (about the airline being "covered" by having done its checks). I'm not sure if that's the beginning & end of it or not (the suggestion I'm responding to is that that's not all there to it). For all I know, there could be some blanket policy or agreement that does require the airline to return a passenger who has been denied entry for any reason. Or not. Whatever the case, Thai Immigration would be wise to NOT try dragging the airlines into this mess. As long as Thailand doesn't make that mistake, the airlines would probably be glad for the extra travel volume...

There is not.

[NamKangMan]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

I know when I am traveling to Vietnam on a visa run, the airline staff check for a Vietnam visa in my passport. That's because most tourists require a visa for Vietnam.

I travel on passports that Thailand allow to be visa exempt for 30 days, I've done a lot of visa runs KB, and not once, even in recent times, and in neighbouring countries, on a visa run, have airline staff looked through my passport for a visa, or asked to see an onward ticket.

That may change after the 12th August, but what instructions are the Thai Government going to give to the airlines?

How many visa exemption stamps, and the time period between them, with they allow? Are airline staff going to be expected to do this mathematical equation, after searching every single page of every passengers passport? That's going to increase check-in time, by quite a lot.

I posted a link to a thread which reported that tourists, with a 60 day Thai tourist visa, were being refused entry.

How can airline staff refuse a passenger with a valid Thai 60 day visa from a Thai Embassy?

What I can see happening will be either a lot of visa runners will fly out and fly back in, or, bus out and fly in, in the future. These people will not be refused entry at a land crossing, but detained at the airport.

As mentioned, logistically, does Thai Immigration have the capability to handle mass detainees?

[NamKangMan]

@ hawker9000

I can't see how it's going to work, at the various Thai Airports, that is.

It's realy not up to the airline staff at departure check-in to vet the passports of passengers for visa stamps and time periods between them.

Sure, they will detain and deport a few foreigners, as a media show, but they may not have the logistical capability of detaining so many people, and then also deporting them.

Time will tell, but enforcement is a lot easier at the overland crossings, than it is in the airports.

As I've stated before, it is the airline's responsibility to check for an onward ticket if there is no Thai visa in the passport.

That's it.

Unhappily, no, that's not "it". Though it certainly doesn't hurt, an onward ticket is no guarantee of permission to enter under this new regime if the IO should make the determination, from a study of your passport, that you're "not a tourist".

I'm talking about BEFORE you get to Thailand. Nothing to do with immigration.

Airlines in some countries are already stopping you from boarding a flight IF you don't have a visa OR have an onward ticket.

My point is that ALL airlines, no matter what country you start out in, will be doing these checks.

If immigration does deny visa exempt entry, the airline is covered because they have checked for the onward ticket. If they were denied entry even though they had a visa, the airline is still off the hook as they already checked for the visa.

That is the limit of their responsibility.

Previously, you could fly into Thailand without either a visa, or an onward ticket. Especially from other Asian countries. That will not be the case from now on.

"Previously, you could fly into Thailand without either a visa, or an onward ticket. Especially from other Asian countries. That will not be the case from now on." - as mentioned in another post, to date, my passport has not been checked and I have not been asked for an onward ticket. This has been from other South East Asian countries.

That may have recently changed. I will find out on my next visa run.

I have set things in place for my next visa run. Eg. paying my rent electronically, I will be taking more luggage, I will leave the key to my place with a friend, I will have an onward ticket etc.

I very well may be refused a 60 day Thai visa at the Embassy, and if so, also refused boarding at the departing airport, or detained at the Thai airport - even with a 60 day Thai tourist visa.

Perhaps a member who has very recently done a visa run, by air, can report whether every page of their passport was checked for visa exemption stamps, and if they were asked for an onward ticket by airline staff from the departing country.

[NamKangMan]

@ hawker9000

"the airlines would probably be glad for the extra travel volume..." - so will all the hotels, restaurants and bars in the neighbouring Capital cities, near the Thai Embassies, that will now have a lot more customers staying for 2 or 3 days whilsts waiting for their 60 day Thai tourist visa.

[NamKangMan]

@ stevenl

This is a random website from a quick Google on the topic if the airlines are responsible for allowing a passenger to board, without the correct visa. This is for China, which is an easy example, because, like Vietnam, most need a visa to enter.

It states: "This is because airlines face penalties from governments if passengers are not eligible for entry to a country and they are also responsible for carrying them out again."

I was always under the believe that airlines did have some liability. I was told this by airline staff, some years ago.

It does also say, as KB has mentioned, "Generally, there is no problem if you have onward (or return) tickets." As a visa runner, I usually have my onward ticket for 89 days later. I think most visa runners will do the same in the future, whether they are asked for it, or not.

So, I am confident of being able to board, like most other visa runners, but not so confident of entry into Thailand.

The problem with enforcing this Thai Immigration policy for the airlines, is that Thailand offer entry, through 30 day visa exemption stamps, to most nationalities, so, with an onward ticket, these "tourists" meet the criteria for boarding, and I believe, will in fact be allowed to board.

Not to mention, the Thai Embassies are issuing 60 day Thai tourist visa to people who are later refused entry.

Thus my question, does Thai Immigration have the logistical capability for mass detention at the various Thai airports, because I think most visa runners will be allowed to board.

http://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/revoke.htm

[stevenl]

Airline responsibility: entering visa exempt with onward/return ticket, other entries visa required. Immigration can refuse, if that happens that is the problem of the traveler, not of the airline or immigration.

[NamKangMan]

Airline responsibility: entering visa exempt with onward/return ticket, other entries visa required. Immigration can refuse, if that happens that is the problem of the traveler, not of the airline or immigration.

Yes, as stated, I have no problem changing the date of my ticket out, or buying another one.

So with many being allowed to board and fly into Thailand, does Thai Immigration really have the logistical capability to detain all of these people?

If not, I have the feeling most will be allowed to enter, if coming in by air, and only some very obvious illegal workers will be detained and deported, and it's these we will see in the media.

Just to relate this to the thread topic, with an increase in visa runners flying in, and their passports scrutinized more closely, the ques at Immigration will be a lot longer and it will take more time to get through.

Edited July 15, 2014 by NamKangMan

[keestha]

Airline responsibility: entering visa exempt with onward/return ticket, other entries visa required. Immigration can refuse, if that happens that is the problem of the traveler, not of the airline or immigration.

Yes, as stated, I have no problem changing the date of my ticket out, or buying another one.

So with many being allowed to board and fly into Thailand, does Thai Immigration really have the logistical capability to detain all of these people?

If not, I have the feeling most will be allowed to enter, if coming in by air, and only some very obvious illegal workers will be detained and deported, and it's these we will see in the media.

Just to relate this to the thread topic, with an increase in visa runners flying in, and their passports scrutinized more closely, the ques at Immigration will be a lot longer and it will take more time to get through.

Detain? As a rule people being refused entry into a country just stay in the transit area till they can produce a ticket to a country which will admit them. Not detention in the legal sense of the word, though it surely restricts your freedom a little bit.

[NamKangMan]

Airline responsibility: entering visa exempt with onward/return ticket, other entries visa required. Immigration can refuse, if that happens that is the problem of the traveler, not of the airline or immigration.

Yes, as stated, I have no problem changing the date of my ticket out, or buying another one.

So with many being allowed to board and fly into Thailand, does Thai Immigration really have the logistical capability to detain all of these people?

If not, I have the feeling most will be allowed to enter, if coming in by air, and only some very obvious illegal workers will be detained and deported, and it's these we will see in the media.

Just to relate this to the thread topic, with an increase in visa runners flying in, and their passports scrutinized more closely, the ques at Immigration will be a lot longer and it will take more time to get through.

Detain? As a rule people being refused entry into a country just stay in the transit area till they can produce a ticket to a country which will admit them. Not detention in the legal sense of the word, though it surely restricts your freedom a little bit.

I've never seen a airline ticket sales office in the "transit area." They are in the public area of the airport - arrivals/departure area. You know, the area with entry and exit doors out into the city - where people can "escape."

A detainee would have to be escorted, probably via an ATM, or money exchange counter, to be able to buy a ticket out, due to being refused entry. They would also need to check-in for the flight, at the airline counter, once again, under escort.

As mentioned, given this could happen on a large scale, I don't think Thai Immigration at the Thai airports have the logistical capability to refuse as many people as they are claiming, under their visa run crackdown, starting the 12th August.

[Seducedbytheseas]

The pay for fast lane service at Phuket Immigration is alive and well. I was there today and gladly paid the fee to a group of officers kicking back off to the side, not far from where I gave the money to an officer behind a makeshift wall, hidden for the arriving passengers. I thought General P. shut this down on his last tour through the area, but it is most certainly business as usual in Phuket.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Seducedbytheseas

[NamKangMan]

The pay for fast lane service at Phuket Immigration is alive and well. I was there today and gladly paid the fee to a group of officers kicking back off to the side, not far from where I gave the money to an officer behind a makeshift wall, hidden for the arriving passengers. I thought General P. shut this down on his last tour through the area, but it is most certainly business as usual in Phuket.

Maybe that was General P behind the "makeshift wall."

[lowprofile]

Does anyone know if the "scheme" is still running or are the desks all back in working order again?

[NomadJoe]

...

 

BTW, I have nothing against paying a small amount for fast-track/VIP service at the airport.  I DO have a problem when those who don't pay have to suffer deliberately-slow immigration lines, and the revenue from this scam benefits a bunch of corrupt officials.

 

And you believe that one of these can exist without the other, in Thailand?

[NomadJoe]

Does anyone know if the "scheme" is still running or are the desks all back in working order again?

 

Still running strong. We had two different sets of customers on the boat this last week which reported being approached by immigration officials and asked to pay 200B for the express lane.

[steelepulse]

I came in during the early afternoon last week and had pocket recorder ready, but they were not soliciting at that time.  I was in the queue next to the Thai passports line, so it went quick as the open Thai passport lanes had no Thais, so this one queue funneled to 4 different lanes.  However, I did see the odd foreigner pass through the Thai passport lanes, so not sure if they had an Apec card.

[simon43]

However, I did see the odd foreigner pass through the Thai passport lanes

 

Perhaps it was the lane for Thai passport holders and odd foreigners... I would have thought that this lane would be more busy with the foreigners....