Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[ubonjoe]

There are some genuine folks that are under 50 and have the funds to stay here but are going to end up the innocent fallout, their only option is the rather expensive Elite Cardspot on.

This point is wrong and has been discussed many time already.

Their options are at least 4: ED, EP, B & IB

Just read this forum.

I know the ED, B and IB but what is the EP ?

Elite Privileged visa that is a valid for 5 years and gives multiple one year entries.

[MJCM]

^Aah oke, so the (in)famous 500k one

Thanks UJ

[george]

PHUKET UPDATE:

Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/743034-out-in-visa-hoppers-now-being-barred-from-entry-to-thailand/

[hereforgood]

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

they mean business now, i hope it doesn't spread to the northern and eastern borders

Then a "60 Day Tourist Visa" is no longer issued? I would imagine that a more efficient way to limit "tourists" to 30 days, is to have all Thai Consulates/Embassies NOT issue any more 60 day tourist visas and let the ones already issued expire naturally!

looks like one 60 day would be honored no problem but not if you had others back to back

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Tapatalk

[faxx]

Elite Privileged visa that is a valid for 5 years and gives multiple one year entries.

Do they still issue them? I thought that program was put to rest.

[AYJAYDEE]

a triple entry tourist visa must be used within 6 months. so 90 days plus 60 extension will not negate it

Where you apply for such visa makes a very big difference to the validity period. To quote your words - show me the link!

are you suggesting i'm wrong? that i havent stayed more than 90 days?

[mataleo]

On triple entry visa from uk u can do around 9 month stay in thailand.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to start this sentence with 'In the past...'

I think for person coming here first time it still possible.

[mataleo]

"Lets be honest about this guys - no more boolshit

There are genuine tourists who will not be affected by any of this, those that come here for an extended holiday once or twice a year possibly over the winter months from say November to January and are issued with a tourist visa, these people should not have a problem

Then there are those that are old enough and want to retire here or those that have wives and or children here and are still working back home (under 50) - there are choices for them to do so without any issues

Then you have the targeted group that don't fall into either of the above, the visa running clan who seem to fall into 3 categories - working illegally - on the run from their own country for various reasons - criminal activity in Thailand - or a mixture of all 3

If you think it's normal in any country going to a border and leaving for an hour or a day every 30 or 60 days then you are delusional - that is not normal anywhere

There are some genuine folks that are under 50 and have the funds to stay here but are going to end up the innocent fallout, their only option is the rather expensive Elite Card

You only have to look at the news stories involving falangs over the last 3 years or so and almost all of them have been on overstay visa expired - the authorities have noticed this too it seems

I honestly believe the next phase of this clampdown (very soon) will be active checking of falangs in locations such as Pattaya and Phuket for their visa status, I really believe this will happen, if you are currently on overstay and don't want to be in a situation were you can't even go outside without the risk of arrest and jail then you need to make a hasty exit ASAP

JMO"

--------------------------------

I started writing my post, but before posting it I read JMO's post. I decided NOT to post mine because JMO has put it so much better than I tried. So I tip my hat off to you, JMO. You were spot on. And yes, we are going to see a lot less riff-ruff, white trash here in Thailand. It is about time.

How is it not normal going to border every 30 or 60 days anywhere?

Mate people do that everyday few times in some places.

Even cambodians do that.

Chinese do that ...

[SandyFeet]

Two things:

To the people comparing this to being denied entry into a Western country even with a visa... really? If an immigration officer in Buffalo NY suspects you are entering the country to work illegally, he or she will not tell you to take a bus to Toronto and fly into the country... so yeah, not really a great point.

And about that Thaivisa reporter... hmmmm, I've heard of reporters having anonymous sources, but never a news organization having an anonymous reporter... I don't want to accuse Thaivisa just making things up, so I'll just assume the reporter needs the anonymity due to lack of work permit

[ukrules]

Two things:

To the people comparing this to being denied entry into a Western country even with a visa... really? If an immigration officer in Buffalo NY suspects you are entering the country to work illegally, he or she will not tell you to take a bus to Toronto and fly into the country... so yeah, not really a great point.

And about that Thaivisa reporter... hmmmm, I've heard of reporters having anonymous sources, but never a news organization having an anonymous reporter... I don't want to accuse Thaivisa just making things up, so I'll just assume the reporter needs the anonymity due to lack of work permit

He appeared to be reporting from Malaysia anyway.

[Thighlander]

strange how they don't use fake reporters to cover known scams...they just forbid the topic,

[Straight8]

The TM7 form for extending Non O visas is titled:

Application For Extension Of Temporary Stay In The Kingdom.

The axe could fall anywhere.

And let it be right on top of those smug **** cheering in these changes at the expense of other who are confidently perch up high on their ever so untouchable ivory tower.

Now that would be something to write about on TV

[taotoo]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

Only the ones that Thailand doesn't want. So job done!

[Straight8]

how many people do you know that are living in Thailand on back to back tourist visa's that are NOT working illegally? Rhetorical question of course.

I know at least 3, not working, and just holidaying, travelling, relaxing and spending good money (between 10-20k a week)

Edit 1: And if their money is finished they just go back home work for a period of time and come back., however I must say they only stay around max (6 -9 months) in Thailand.

I know several more and at a guess, 99% of foreigners from the westernized countries would not get out of bed for double what the average Thai earns. No make that quadruple!!!!

Any one who comes to Thailand who has to work for thai wages needs serious help and I don't mean financially. These are the type I agree should not be here, but don't give the people who don't work, do not need to work $ spend good money in this country a hard time.

With the use of a little common sense, Immigration can weed out the undesireables, but using common sense would be a challenge in itself by the look of things.

[AYJAYDEE]

The TM7 form for extending Non O visas is titled:

Application For Extension Of Temporary Stay In The Kingdom.

The axe could fall anywhere.

And let it be right on top of those smug **** cheering in these changes at the expense of other who are confidently perch up high on their ever so untouchable ivory tower.

Now that would be something to write about on TV

the temporary stay is the time specified in the original visa

[Straight8]

If your a tourist (financially stable and not working in the country) why should it matter how many tourist visas you have? If you have the funds to support yourself and wish to visit a country without being over 50, married to a local, or teaching English then why should it matter?

All these Thai Visa clowns are so quick to judge everyone else when they married a bar girl or borrowed money to put in an account for a retirement visa (ooops - how does it feel to be judged based on a small minority of people?)

First the Cambodians were kicked out - and people blamed the Cambodians for overreacting to rumours

Then the Myanmar refugees were kicked out - and people turned a blind eye to that

Now legit Visa holders are being denied - and they are being blamed for being "multiple tourist visa holders"

Its coming for you next. Let's see how your lovely loyal Thai wife deals with the mutual Thai bank account/ business/ property when your marriage visa renewal is denied. One thing is for sure, the next group in line to be targeted will be too busy pointing fingers at your faults to see it coming for them.

Brilliant post my friend however, although' NOBODY will listen to your valid points. Considering, these buffoons are so small minded and don't give a toss about anyone else other than themselves. Never in my entire life, have I ever came across so many parasites who congregate to ridicule anyone who dare speak out. There is never any compassion or empathy shown as a sympathetic gesture for our fellow compatriots. All this doom n' gloom crap is beginning to get on my nerves. On Judgement day, we won't need a visa to get in - just some previous kindness and thoughtfulness will be suffice.

Well said scotbkk., extremely well put!!

You are obviously not over 50, physically undesirable and a freaking walking ATM supporting you teeruks and her extended family, therefore you are the kind they want out.

[mataleo]

One or two Thaivisa members warned that the PDRC were anti farang. Now wait for the Junta to insist that those living here on retirement visas, marriage visas etc need to have a University degree, then we will see how many are applauding them.

I have a uni degree so I guess I'm safe then?

This is rumor i guess

Started by......you?

Not me. I reposted.

Remember in every rumour there is bit of truth...

[Rooo]

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[Thai at Heart]

i have been reading this article: http://www.thaisavannakhet.com/savannakhet/th/news/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=804

my guess is that the visa crackdown is targeting those who abuse "being a tourist" either with back to back visa's and or visa exempt entry's.

there has been an announcement about the "90 days out off 180 rule", including those articles to be found on the Thai Embassy websites,

This makes me strongly believe that this ruling is revived and that they want the long-stayers to have the proper visa's.

The whole story makes sense, there are not many other way's they could "check up" on that, besides using this ruling.

if the rule is not valid, but still used as excuse, that would give some "die hards" solid grounds to appeal ;-)

There are plenty useful / legal ways to be in Thailand over prolonged time, use them, don't abuse tourist visa's

The thing is, it wasn't an abuse. It was legal, actually still is legal.

Where does it say that you can not have back to back multiple visas?

The assumption is you are working. Well, if you have funds and they don't catch you working, that is a very broad assumption.

I am not defending anyone, but reality is, what was permitted yesterday, is not permitted today. TIT

Give it 3 months and it will change again probably because TAT numbers are going to plummet.

[Thai at Heart]

"Lets be honest about this guys - no more boolshit

There are genuine tourists who will not be affected by any of this, those that come here for an extended holiday once or twice a year possibly over the winter months from say November to January and are issued with a tourist visa, these people should not have a problem

Then there are those that are old enough and want to retire here or those that have wives and or children here and are still working back home (under 50) - there are choices for them to do so without any issues

Then you have the targeted group that don't fall into either of the above, the visa running clan who seem to fall into 3 categories - working illegally - on the run from their own country for various reasons - criminal activity in Thailand - or a mixture of all 3

If you think it's normal in any country going to a border and leaving for an hour or a day every 30 or 60 days then you are delusional - that is not normal anywhere

There are some genuine folks that are under 50 and have the funds to stay here but are going to end up the innocent fallout, their only option is the rather expensive Elite Card

You only have to look at the news stories involving falangs over the last 3 years or so and almost all of them have been on overstay visa expired - the authorities have noticed this too it seems

I honestly believe the next phase of this clampdown (very soon) will be active checking of falangs in locations such as Pattaya and Phuket for their visa status, I really believe this will happen, if you are currently on overstay and don't want to be in a situation were you can't even go outside without the risk of arrest and jail then you need to make a hasty exit ASAP

JMO"

--------------------------------

I started writing my post, but before posting it I read JMO's post. I decided NOT to post mine because JMO has put it so much better than I tried. So I tip my hat off to you, JMO. You were spot on. And yes, we are going to see a lot less riff-ruff, white trash here in Thailand. It is about time.

The issue of overstay has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with enforcement inside the country.

By very definition, the overstayed hasn't been out of the country, and with thus crackdown is even less likely to.

[Seekingasylum]

Did we find out if JDgruen's German chums finally made it through the control?

For the Thai to refuse a visa holder on the basis of evidence that was already before the officer who issued the visa in the first place is a radical move and undermines the principle of a visa regime.

As the plight of the German couple so vividly demonstrates, the Thai are quite incapable of distinguishing between genuine travellers and those visa runners seeking to maintain a de facto residence.

Important principle at stake here but I should imagine the Thai will ignore it like they seem to do with anything they can't manage or comprehend properly.

[AYJAYDEE]

Did we find out if JDgruen's German chums finally made it through the control?

For the Thai to refuse a visa holder on the basis of evidence that was already before the officer who issued the visa in the first place is a radical move and undermines the principle of a visa regime.

As the plight of the German couple so vividly demonstrates, the Thai are quite incapable of distinguishing between genuine travellers and those visa runners seeking to maintain a de facto residence.

Important principle at stake here but I should imagine the Thai will ignore it like they seem to do with anything they can't manage or comprehend properly.

what is the principle of a visa regime?

[Seekingasylum]

Essentially, a visa confers a presumptive right of entry. Provided that there has been no material change removing the basis of the visa issue the holder has an expectation of being granted admission in line with their stated intentions. Usually, and in most other visa regimes in the developed world, a right of appeal against an adverse decision is granted to the holder, whether it be exercisable from abroad or within the country where they may be seeking entry. A visa is simply an entry clearance and indicates that the bearer has already demonstrated to the issuing officer that he has complied with the immigration rules relating to the category in which he is seeking entry.

Ok?

[AYJAYDEE]

Essentially, a visa confers a presumptive right of entry. Provided that there has been no material change removing the basis of the visa issue the holder has an expectation of being granted admission in line with their stated intentions. Usually, and in most other visa regimes in the developed world, a right of appeal against an adverse decision is granted to the holder, whether it be exercisable from abroad or within the country where they may be seeking entry. A visa is simply an entry clearance and indicates that the bearer has already demonstrated to the issuing officer that he has complied with the immigration rules relating to the category in which he is seeking entry.

Ok?

they specifically state that the visa does not confer a right of entry.

[Seekingasylum]

I know. That's why I said " presumptive ".

[AYJAYDEE]

I know. That's why I said " presumptive ".

presumed privilege would be a better term then

[Seekingasylum]

I do hope you won't think me rude but I have no intention of engaging in pointless, nit picking ping pong games.

[Straight8]

To be honest there are a LOT of people working in Thailand who are not "working in Thailand". In other words they are working for their own, non-thailand related businesses based overseas etc. These are generally professional people, who spend a lot of money in Thailand, and not criminals or trouble makers. These people cant get a legitimate visa. Technically they should be paying income tax in Thailand even if their business is based overseas and technically they should have a work permit for it. Unfortunately you cant get a work permit for it, therefor you cant register for tax either I believe.

It would be good if Thailand took a different approach to cleaning up foreingers allowed to live in Thailand. Let people live here who have businesses from overseas but make them submit their documents annually and make them tax-residents of Thailand. This start-up crowd could be very good for Thailand, which desperately needs innovation! It would also give Thai people the opportunity to get employment etc. They should criminal record check people who want to stay her for long periods and deny them entry. This will sort out the "criminal expat" problem.

And would this give them at least some form of residency and the right to buy land??

Thought so!!!

These points are flawed and one sided. Take a lot and give very little.

Technically these types are paying taxes already called VAT and 15% on interest earned.

If Thailand wants to employ such rules then they should provide some incentives for these types of individuals, however for a country that is known as "takers", you'd be asking for quite a lot to get a fair go!!!

[Ace of Pop]

Some are pleased, they just wont bother , so some say. Just get out if caught.

[NanLaew]

Did we find out if JDgruen's German chums finally made it through the control?

For the Thai to refuse a visa holder on the basis of evidence that was already before the officer who issued the visa in the first place is a radical move and undermines the principle of a visa regime.

As the plight of the German couple so vividly demonstrates, the Thai are quite incapable of distinguishing between genuine travellers and those visa runners seeking to maintain a de facto residence.

Important principle at stake here but I should imagine the Thai will ignore it like they seem to do with anything they can't manage or comprehend properly.

Me too.

They were told to stay out for a night or too... but they didn't, thought they knew better, tried a walk-around, got denied and had to go get a visa.

Then they were told to fly back... but they didn't, thought they knew better and are trying to come back at the same land border they chose to ignore advice from above.

BTW, there's absolutely nothing radical about a visa-holder being denied entry, not in Thailand, not in the US, not in the EU, not anywhere that has a vise 'regime'. But I see you have already accepted that your above premise is flawed so we can let that go.