Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[RTH10260]

[offtopic]

The main problem with getting the initial one year extension is finding a window where she can be away from work for approx six weeks, corresponding to the last month of my nonO, so that we can make it thru the paperwork and an unlikely home visit by immigration staffers. Then the planned date of issue should be convenient with me staying in TH for the renewal in future years.

Problem with work for my wife, she doesn't get six weeks off and would need to take an unpaid leave, not what empoyers like. Technically the employer also dictates when an employee may take their holidays, business needs first.

For me the nonO multiple entry will work fine as for the time being my healthcare provider in farangland expects to see me still a few times a year. Not to ignore that I wish to share some quality time with wife.

[/offtopic]

so the problem is with the extension , not with getting the original visa

Correct, no problem with getting the visa itself, using the reason of "family visit" is interpreted quite liberal, consulate in farangland was well aware that wife was not travelling with me this time, and yes, there is further next of kin to visit.

My medium term problem is for when I wish to stay past 90 days, not wanting to make a visa run. Until getting a extension on marriage with no fear of complications, the alternative would be the extension based on retirement and binding extra cash in TH.

Edited July 15, 2014 by RTH10260

[AYJAYDEE]

The rules are that you can have 90 day in Thailand in any 6 months. That's easily done with tourist visas and extensions, but that rule indicates an away period of about 3 months. If a rich young tourist wants to come more often - get the Elite card.. The Elite card allows you to stay indefinitely for a year, is valid for 5 years and assists with many things like work permits, investments, etc. The fact that it was started during a prior regime is immaterial and in spite of it having it's fair share of Thai-ish problems, I defy you to quote a real instance of a card holder having any serious problems or having his card cancelled through no fault of his own.

there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of. It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

[jpinx]

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I have been legitimately visiting Thailand on 30 day entries and/or tourist visas for years. I retired young and have plenty of money and for years I have been coming to Thailand three times a year and staying for one or two months each time, with periods of 2-4 months in between back in my home country. I come here because I like the place and have plenty of friends here to hang out with. I do not work while in Thailand.

I don't seem to fall into the category of people they are trying to keep out, but they are casting such a wide net that I'm afraid on my next trip I might have trouble.

I wonder when the TAT is going to chime in on this issue? Only after "legitimate" tourists start cancelling their trips en masse and start going elsewhere?

You have been abusing the system - time to get an Elite card or investment visa. TAT will be happy to help you -- they don't want system abusers either, no matter you're a millionaire

Please tell me how I have been abusing the system. I am a tourist. I do not work in Thailand, just spend money on things like hotels, food, beer. I just happen to have the ability to come more often than most people because of hard work and a significant measure of good luck. The Elite card is an overpriced scam invented by a disgraced former PM that the current government is trying to make sure never soils the country again by his influence. I am surprised it hasn't been cancelled yet. I am not investing in a business in Thailand because I am retired. I am just spending my money here four months a year. Where is the abuse on my part?

I don't want to get ahead of myself here. The Thai immigration authorities may very well not have a problem allowing me to enter the country on this basis, but the somewhat arbitrary nature of this crackdown makes me wonder. My point is that a lot of people who are not "system abusers" might get caught up in this net, and Thailand's reputation as a welcoming destination might be tarnished. Time for the TAT to start paying attention and asking immigration to calm the hell down.

Perhaps Jpinx falls into the categories of guys who are abusing the system with investiment visa without investing anything or with a work permit but they are not working or with a ED visa without studying.

These are the real system abusers.

Not tourists who likes to stay longer and come back because they prefer Thailand to other destinations.

Thailand is the only country in the world who wants tourist to never come back for life. They should put a sign in the airport where people are boarding "Thank you for your visit. Please don't come back., We don't want to see you again".

Personalising the topic does nothing to add to the reality. My personal status is not the issue, suffice to say that I will be happy to have any immigration officer inspect it. The real issue is the fact that rich people must abide by the same laws as the rest. If someone is so wealty that he feels threatened by a outlay of 500,000 Bhat for a 5 year card, then the question arises -- what constitutes "wealthy" ?

[Yann55]

You're working on the assumption that the IOs even have that option. They have clearly been given instructions to make it clear that Immigration isnt messing around this time - your imaginary stamp would do the exact opposite. From the OP, none of the people who were bounced were newbies getting their first Tourist Visa then trying to return to Thailand via a land border - lets not try to paint them as girl scouts in tears after being turned away by the Immigration ogre whilst trying to get to that big Jamboree in Yala.

WW, your last line is extremely funny ... thanks for the morning laugh !!

[Pattaya46]

[there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of.

It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

This rule may not be an official one,

but is applied by the Thai embassy/consulates in several countries

and I bet will be in more countries shortly...

[Bpuumike]

 

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

Well, no.

It is immigration job to stop possible violators from even entering.

Saying that, current crack down even on tourist visa holders is draconian.

May be Thailand should introduce 1 year tourist visa or alternatively develop a new program for people under the retirement age who may want to live in Thailand.

Again saying that , they did, the elite program which is fairly expansive. May be this is what Thailand wants , only people with money.

Nothing wrong with that, only people with money do not move to Thailand

 

Tourists don't stay for 1 year. I don't know of any country which issues 1-year tourist visas.

[AYJAYDEE]

Well, I have a question. The conventional wisdom has been that if an airline allows a passenger to board a flight to Thailand without a visa in his passport OR any onward ticketing within the 30d visa-exempt window (if applicable to that person), then the airline is responsible for returning that passenger to the place of origin should he be denied permission to enter. My question is, if the airline HAS done the required checking and the passenger DOES have the required onward ticketing OR has the visa in hand, then can Thailand still require them to return the passenger if he's denied entry? I understand that a Thai IO can deny entry for whatever reason, but does that automatically mean the airline is on the hook if they've exercised their due diligence? What exactly is the nature of this covenant between Thai Immigration and the airlines? Is it just an unwritten "if you don't do as we say you can't land here anymore" thing?

This is what will lead to the lawsuits.

It's actually a lot more than just returning the passenger to their home country, that's the tip of the iceberg.

A lot of countries levy a fine (several 1000's of USD or equivalent) against the airline if a passenger is refused entrance based on visa requirements - this is why the ruleset needs to be very specific.

I don't know what the situation is in Thailand with regards to this but I'm sure someone who works for one of the airlines will be familiar with the rules when flying into Thailand.

i suspect it will put more workload on the consulates as i cant see them sending someone back that has a valid visa. how would the airline know if he was not going to be allowed in? even thailand wouldnt open a can of worms that smelly! would they? lol

Well I would expect the central immigration department to issue a full clarification of any new regulations in precise detail to the airlines in advance of the August 12th changes, especially if it could have an impact on people being refused entrance. It's a very different thing to refuse entry at an airport than a land border. Certain international treaties come into play as well.

At that point everyone will know exactly what's going to change.

But this is Thailand and sometimes things don't work in the same way here as they do elsewhere.

the airlines will not be able to analyze a passport and decide if there are too many in/outs etc,, that job will have to be done by consulates

[jpinx]

The rules are that you can have 90 day in Thailand in any 6 months. That's easily done with tourist visas and extensions, but that rule indicates an away period of about 3 months. If a rich young tourist wants to come more often - get the Elite card.. The Elite card allows you to stay indefinitely for a year, is valid for 5 years and assists with many things like work permits, investments, etc. The fact that it was started during a prior regime is immaterial and in spite of it having it's fair share of Thai-ish problems, I defy you to quote a real instance of a card holder having any serious problems or having his card cancelled through no fault of his own.

there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of. It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

I can not find the relevant rule in immigration website, so you may well be correct, but one sees it quoted so often. Surely there must be some guidelines for Immigration officers to follow?

[AYJAYDEE]

[offtopic]

The main problem with getting the initial one year extension is finding a window where she can be away from work for approx six weeks, corresponding to the last month of my nonO, so that we can make it thru the paperwork and an unlikely home visit by immigration staffers. Then the planned date of issue should be convenient with me staying in TH for the renewal in future years.

Problem with work for my wife, she doesn't get six weeks off and would need to take an unpaid leave, not what empoyers like. Technically the employer also dictates when an employee may take their holidays, business needs first.

For me the nonO multiple entry will work fine as for the time being my healthcare provider in farangland expects to see me still a few times a year. Not to ignore that I wish to share some quality time with wife.

[/offtopic]

so the problem is with the extension , not with getting the original visa

Correct, no problem with getting the visa itself, using the reason of "family visit" is interpreted quite liberal, consulate in farangland was well aware that wife was not travelling with me this time, and yes, there is further next of kin to visit.

My medium term problem is for when I wish to stay past 90 days, not wanting to make a visa run. Until getting a extension on marriage with no fear of complications, the alternative would be the extension based on retirement and binding extra cash in TH.

my consulate actually says visiting AS a spouse of a thai, not visting the thai. nitpickery i know! lol

For the purpose of visiting family in Thailand or visiting as a spouse of a Thai national:

[p_brownstone]

I wonder how that one works out in practice. Dear Friend may give them a job on paper and needs to pay salary, plus paperwork, and must run a large business to comply with number of Thai workers per expat. And the WP must somehow come from the Labour Departement (tea money?). And the taxman hovering somewhere?

Yes, they refund all these expenses of course. I don;t know all the details because I am not doing that, but I have a friend who has a company with 500 employees (mostly Thais, but some qualified foreigner too) who did the favour to a couple of friends to give them work permit for his companies, but those guys are not really working with him. They are lounging around Sukhumvit partying all year. They have money,they are young and they don't want to leave. I didn't ask every detail. But trust me, they have been around for about 10 years....

I don't spy because they are friends, but I wouldn't do that, because I spend only few months in Thailand (mostly Nov-Mar)

Sorry but you are definitely confused!

A Work Permit does not convey any rights to stay in Thailand (nor is it illegal to have a Work Permit and not work of course!).

In order to obtain a Work Permit the applicant must first have the appropriate Visa - no Visa, no Work Permit - and a Work Permit will not be issued on a Tourist Visa.

The scenario you describe is impossible, legally, and useless in practice.

Patrick

[MrWorldwide]

Option 3) Live with the GF in Cambodia, PI, Laos, Vietnam or one of the other 200 some countries in the world that will welcome you & is not called Thaitanic, er, Thailand.

If you honestly believe that yourself and your GF will be welcome in Laos or Vietnam longterm, I wish you every success with that. That leaves Cambodia and the PI - I'll leave it to those who've actually lived in those countries to comment further on the transition. The idea that you can just pack a suitcase and be transported to the Thailand of 30 years ago is undeniably attractive - I just wonder how many of us are ready for the downside of that fantasy.

[AYJAYDEE]

The rules are that you can have 90 day in Thailand in any 6 months. That's easily done with tourist visas and extensions, but that rule indicates an away period of about 3 months. If a rich young tourist wants to come more often - get the Elite card.. The Elite card allows you to stay indefinitely for a year, is valid for 5 years and assists with many things like work permits, investments, etc. The fact that it was started during a prior regime is immaterial and in spite of it having it's fair share of Thai-ish problems, I defy you to quote a real instance of a card holder having any serious problems or having his card cancelled through no fault of his own.

there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of. It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

I can not find the relevant rule in immigration website, so you may well be correct, but one sees it quoted so often. Surely there must be some guidelines for Immigration officers to follow?

there are but this isnt one of them

[harleyclarkey]

Time for tourists to move on and bypass this stupid erratic abusive country?

I have.....thank God.

And yet you still feel the need to post here?

Perhaps you would let us know here why I should not follow events through TV and post a reasonable post....unlike yours?

Your post is seriously inane.

[hawker9000]

 

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

Well, no.

It is immigration job to stop possible violators from even entering.

Saying that, current crack down even on tourist visa holders is draconian.

May be Thailand should introduce 1 year tourist visa or alternatively develop a new program for people under the retirement age who may want to live in Thailand.

Again saying that , they did, the elite program which is fairly expansive. May be this is what Thailand wants , only people with money.

Nothing wrong with that, only people with money do not move to Thailand

 

Tourists don't stay for 1 year. I don't know of any country which issues 1-year tourist visas.

The Thai Elite program does...

[jpinx]

Well I would expect the central immigration department to issue a full clarification of any new regulations in precise detail to the airlines in advance of the August 12th changes, especially if it could have an impact on people being refused entrance. It's a very different thing to refuse entry at an airport than a land border. Certain international treaties come into play as well.

At that point everyone will know exactly what's going to change.

But this is Thailand and sometimes things don't work in the same way here as they do elsewhere.

------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed -- and therein lies a huge conflict of interests since the consulates rely on the income. Central government would need to lay down clearer rules for the consulates to follow. Remember the changes to Hull's approach after pressure from above a few years ago? It is perfectly possible for visas to be issued only in situations where they are pretty much certain to be accepted at the border, but the border immigration officer will *always* have the last say. Meantime the airlines are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, so they try to fail safe and make sure a traveller has at least got either a visa or an onward ticket.

[MrWorldwide]

The rules are that you can have 90 day in Thailand in any 6 months. That's easily done with tourist visas and extensions, but that rule indicates an away period of about 3 months. If a rich young tourist wants to come more often - get the Elite card.. The Elite card allows you to stay indefinitely for a year, is valid for 5 years and assists with many things like work permits, investments, etc. The fact that it was started during a prior regime is immaterial and in spite of it having it's fair share of Thai-ish problems, I defy you to quote a real instance of a card holder having any serious problems or having his card cancelled through no fault of his own.

there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of. It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

Sadly, it would appear that Consular staff in at least two Consulates - Singapore and Paris - are still using that rule as reported in a couple of threads here recently.

http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-/-consular/visa-requirements/tourist-visa

Some interesting requirements that I wasnt previously aware of - they are never required in Penang - even if the return flight/money does seem more common now.

4. Airline ticket or confirmation slip with flight number and date of entry and exit

5. Evidence of adequate finance ($1000 per person and $2000 per family)

6. Visa of a third country in a passport or travel document

Consular officers reserve the right to refuse the application for a tourist visa if the applicant continuously stays in Thailand for more than six months under tourist visas, and are unable to provide sufficient evidence that the purpose of visit is tourism.

I see that last one as a direct contradiction to the claim that the Consulates arent doing sufficient checks, but there is no way I'd risk being knocked back at a Consulate like that if I thought I could still gain entry to Thailand via an airport prior to August 12. Thankfully, I'm no longer faced with that dilemma.

[hawker9000]

Well I would expect the central immigration department to issue a full clarification of any new regulations in precise detail to the airlines in advance of the August 12th changes, especially if it could have an impact on people being refused entrance. It's a very different thing to refuse entry at an airport than a land border. Certain international treaties come into play as well.

At that point everyone will know exactly what's going to change.

But this is Thailand and sometimes things don't work in the same way here as they do elsewhere.

------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed -- and therein lies a huge conflict of interests since the consulates rely on the income. Central government would need to lay down clearer rules for the consulates to follow. Remember the changes to Hull's approach after pressure from above a few years ago? It is perfectly possible for visas to be issued only in situations where they are pretty much certain to be accepted at the border, but the border immigration officer will *always* have the last say. Meantime the airlines are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, so they try to fail safe and make sure a traveller has at least got either a visa or an onward ticket.

I'm not sure the airlines are necessarily at great risk here, as long as they're making their checks and the passengers have what they're supposed to have. Thailand doesn't HAVE to drag them into this, and can instead just leave the burden on the traveler. And most travelers will have the means and be willing to do what they have to in order to avoid the IDC... There'll be a few who decide "it's the principle of the thing" and want to make a show of it I guess (and there'll probably be some media interest when that happens), but not too many. Most people are sheep these days and are easily led.

[AYJAYDEE]

The rules are that you can have 90 day in Thailand in any 6 months. That's easily done with tourist visas and extensions, but that rule indicates an away period of about 3 months. If a rich young tourist wants to come more often - get the Elite card.. The Elite card allows you to stay indefinitely for a year, is valid for 5 years and assists with many things like work permits, investments, etc. The fact that it was started during a prior regime is immaterial and in spite of it having it's fair share of Thai-ish problems, I defy you to quote a real instance of a card holder having any serious problems or having his card cancelled through no fault of his own.

there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of. It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

Sadly, it would appear that Consular staff in at least two Consulates - Singapore and Paris - are still using that rule as reported in a couple of threads here recently.

http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-/-consular/visa-requirements/tourist-visa

Some interesting requirements that I wasnt previously aware of - they are never required in Penang - even if the return flight/money does seem more common now.

4. Airline ticket or confirmation slip with flight number and date of entry and exit

5. Evidence of adequate finance ($1000 per person and $2000 per family)

6. Visa of a third country in a passport or travel document

Consular officers reserve the right to refuse the application for a tourist visa if the applicant continuously stays in Thailand for more than six months under tourist visas, and are unable to provide sufficient evidence that the purpose of visit is tourism.

I see that last one as a direct contradiction to the claim that the Consulates arent doing sufficient checks, but there is no way I'd risk being knocked back at a Consulate like that if I thought I could still gain entry to Thailand via an airport prior to August 12. Thankfully, I'm no longer faced with that dilemma.

yes, they are using a rule that no longer exists

[AYJAYDEE]

[there is no rule about 90 days in 6 months that I know of.

It has been stated here often that that rule was eliminated years ago

This rule may not be an official one,

but is applied by the Thai embassy/consulates in several countries

and I bet will be in more countries shortly...

how much is the bet? are you giving odds?

[bkkjames]

Maybe one should make a point of doing touristy things and take photos, keep the receipts to prove their innocence lol

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[garydubbs]

I wonder how that one works out in practice. Dear Friend may give them a job on paper and needs to pay salary, plus paperwork, and must run a large business to comply with number of Thai workers per expat. And the WP must somehow come from the Labour Departement (tea money?). And the taxman hovering somewhere?

Yes, they refund all these expenses of course. I don;t know all the details because I am not doing that, but I have a friend who has a company with 500 employees (mostly Thais, but some qualified foreigner too) who did the favour to a couple of friends to give them work permit for his companies, but those guys are not really working with him. They are lounging around Sukhumvit partying all year. They have money,they are young and they don't want to leave. I didn't ask every detail. But trust me, they have been around for about 10 years....

I don't spy because they are friends, but I wouldn't do that, because I spend only few months in Thailand (mostly Nov-Mar)

Sorry but you are definitely confused!

A Work Permit does not convey any rights to stay in Thailand (nor is it illegal to have a Work Permit and not work of course!).

In order to obtain a Work Permit the applicant must first have the appropriate Visa - no Visa, no Work Permit - and a Work Permit will not be issued on a Tourist Visa.

The scenario you describe is impossible, legally, and useless in practice.

Patrick

well once they have work permit (or letter of intent from company)ts easy to get B visa and then make work permit full. lawyer would collect tax and make everything legal.

seems very plausible to me, nothing on the work permit says how many hours must be worked only

Edited July 15, 2014 by garydubbs

[p_brownstone]

Yes, they refund all these expenses of course. I don;t know all the details because I am not doing that, but I have a friend who has a company with 500 employees (mostly Thais, but some qualified foreigner too) who did the favour to a couple of friends to give them work permit for his companies, but those guys are not really working with him. They are lounging around Sukhumvit partying all year. They have money,they are young and they don't want to leave. I didn't ask every detail. But trust me, they have been around for about 10 years....

I don't spy because they are friends, but I wouldn't do that, because I spend only few months in Thailand (mostly Nov-Mar)

Sorry but you are definitely confused!

A Work Permit does not convey any rights to stay in Thailand (nor is it illegal to have a Work Permit and not work of course!).

In order to obtain a Work Permit the applicant must first have the appropriate Visa - no Visa, no Work Permit - and a Work Permit will not be issued on a Tourist Visa.

The scenario you describe is impossible, legally, and useless in practice.

Patrick

well once they have work permit (or letter of intent from company)ts easy to get B visa and then make work permit full. lawyer would collect tax and make everything legal.

seems very plausible to me, nothing on the work permit says how many hours must be worked only

Good point - yes, quite possible I see now.

Patrick

[JDGRUEN]

Good news for my friends - so far. My neighbors and friends - a young German couple have been stranded in Malaysia for several days now since being denied re-entry into Thailand (probably due to too many extensions based on a Visa on Arrival or Exemption - or whatever it is called).

The couple got their new Tourist Visas in Penang as they were basically directed to do by the IO... They are now on the way back to the same border checkpoint on the Thai - Malaysian border to re-enter Thailand. They have been cautioned that coming by air would be better - but they decided to try land - then air if denied again (for whatever strange interpretation that some Border IO might have on the legitimacy of their new visa). In my opinion, the couple got their new Tourist Visa primarily because they had air tickets out of Thailand for July 29 - booked in June),

We hope to see them later this evening.

Please note this man and his girlfriend are not 'long stayers' dodging Immigration. They simply did not know that relying on an arrival exemption at the airport - then doing border runs a couple of times was anything but the norm.

Edited July 15, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[larsjohnsson]

:-). A friend of mine had a Thai gf for years and they have gone to Costa Rica for years, she had overstayed there all the time, but she never had any problems to get out and go back . She just paid a ridicolous low fine at the airport , 2-3 dollars a MONTH .

I mean, i respect every country laws, but come on.....if you are not breaking any law, behaving well, spending the money, why they should be so strict ? My suggestion is to make the retirement visa available for younger people and that's it.

They will need to show the money and another suggestion: check from time to time their bank accounts if there are money being DEPOSITED from inside Thailand, than you can ask them to prove where those money are come from if they are supposed to be in Thailand to SPEND....right ?

It's not hard, come on....just be organized and target the real law breaking....

Now they are doing a witch hunt, scaring people who are doing nothing bad...

You make a lot of valid points however

immigration in LOS, doesnt have the manpower to go and check everyones bank account, they already don't have the manpower to do home visits at peoples homes who applied for a Marriage Extension of stay (i was on my 3rd and I havent seen them, I am still waiting)

And another thing, I know that a lot of people who work both legal and illegal are getting paid in cash. For example my wife's niece (she is Thai) has a responsible demanding job at a tour agency, and she paid in cash every week (oke she deposits it immediately in her Bank account (as she wants to qualify for finance) but it wouldnt surprise me that the "illegal" workers dont do that)

Respect

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

yes likely.Forgive me for a moment the off topic.

I am 40 , let's say Thailand decided to allow over 40+ to get a retirement visa.

They should have bank accounts anyway to prove they have the money. If somebody gets the RV and still works illegaly, come on, even if he is being paid in cash, he can't keep running cash in hands for years and years.

Maybe few ones would make their way, but Thailand could legalize a HUGE number of people who are under 50 and have the capability to live in Thailand without working, without doing any wrongdoing and spending their money.

For the sake of God, there are lots of over 50 who are near broke too and they struggle to keep those 700K THB, why a guy of 40 or 45 with 4 rents at his homecountry can t be a retired and a near broke one of 50 can ? Age doesn't guarantee financial independence.

Even 50 years is rather generous for a visa based on retirement. Yes of course there are a lot of people that are 30 or 40 that has more money than those that are older. But being 50 is one of the rules for this visa. Why don't apply for one of the other visas that are good for people that are 40, and retired with a lot of money?

I' sure there are a lot of people that also like to have the non O based on thai wife, but they are not married with their GF

Edited July 15, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[JDGRUEN]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You live in a cave? There are so many people LIVING here on tourists visa's receiving income from Thailand. You never been to a restaurant/bar opened by a farang for his GF or wife? Nothing illegal about that, but they are on TOURIST visa and not really tourists are they? You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side? You never know an English Teacher? You want a link? PLEASE.

No Bill, I don't live in a cave at all.

I know many, many farang that have restaurants/bars ran by their wives/GF's, but don't know one of them on a tourist visa. All are on at a minimum of non-O visa. There is stupid, but to try to do this long term on a tourist visa? FYI, my wife ran a restaurant for almost 13 years while I have been here, so my nose was pretty close to the ground at that time.

"You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side?" Correct, I have never met a farang doing this, even during my years living in Pattaya.

English teachers? I know many but all with work permits. In defence, I don't know how the conversation schools work and the ones I know doing private lessons are breaking labour laws not immigration (as they already have WP's).

"You want a link?" Yes, that is what I asked for in the original post.

Unfortunately (due to the abusive nature of BillR) I have to confirm that he is right. I have met many many people working (mainly teaching) whilst on tourist visas with agencies and language centers paying the bill for their border runs and tourist visas. I am still exposed to the same environment that I have met many of them through but have to admit that this number has reduced over the past 2 years. On the whole they have been the less enjoyable demographic from that environment and do tend to be the ones that always plead poverty whilst clutching a bottle of Chang.

I just wonder what all these agencies and language schools are going to do now. They really can't afford to employ qualified teachers so it'll certainly be interesting to see how these businesses are faring in a few months time.

There are a lot of us over age 60 guys that are available for the newly vacated teaching positions. And we are qualified. And we are here on long term visas... My friend and I are looking for a real situation with a WP... not something dodgy. In the recent past we over 60 guys have been avoided by those placing people in the better jobs - but I imagine we will begin to look younger and more attractive to them now or in the near future. Plus we can convert our Visas to the B category if a legitimate job was offered - one with a WP...

[JDGRUEN]

I repeat my question in case somebody has an answer:

DID these guys have an exit ticket from Thailand when they were refused entry at the Southern Border ?

My friends did ... German couple - air tickets out of Thailand for July 29th. - booked in June. They had proof in hand at the Malaysian checkpoint ... they were denied re-entry and had to sign an 'alien' document - what ever that is. And were basically directed to go to Penang to get a Tourist Visa (they had entered on an arrival Exemption and had done two previous border runs - as they thought it was a normal thing to do. But they were denied re-entry Saturday evening ... they have the new Tourist Visas now and are going to try the land crossing at the same checkpoint... we'll know by later today if they were allowed in.

[stevenl]

I repeat my question in case somebody has an answer:

DID these guys have an exit ticket from Thailand when they were refused entry at the Southern Border ?

My friends did ... German couple - air tickets out of Thailand for July 29th. - booked in June. They had proof in hand at the Malaysian checkpoint ... they were denied re-entry and had to sign an 'alien' document - what ever that is. And were basically directed to go to Penang to get a Tourist Visa (they had entered on an arrival Exemption and had done two previous border runs - as they thought it was a normal thing to do. But they were denied re-entry Saturday evening ... they have the new Tourist Visas now and are going to try the land crossing at the same checkpoint... we'll know by later today if they were allowed in.

Earlier you (or they, can't remember) said they were told to spend 1 night and return to the same checkpoint the next day. They choose a different approach, and had to pay for that. How many visa exempt entries did they have when they tried to get another visa exempt entry?

[JDGRUEN]

It appears abundantly transparent that this is just the beginning of cleansing Thailand of undesirable foreigners.

• Next will be land bought with a shell company.
• WP holders that are not actually working.
• B Visa holders that have absolutely no business here in Thailand whatsoever.
• Retirement Visa's and those that never really had the money in the bank to qualify but paid under the table.
• Marriage visa holders that do not live with the wife anymore.

The list goes on and on.

There is a mass cleansing approaching this will effect not only the tourist visa runners but almost everyone regardless of what you read here not everyone is a squeaky clean as they make out....watch your back, your turn is coming.

I assume your a Thai immigration officer then..?..........

Speculation and stating Opinion are legitimate parts of any Forum discussion group. I detect nothing in Xeno's post that suggests he is posing as a IO... You just do not like to hear different opinions it would seem.

[stevenl]

Well I would expect the central immigration department to issue a full clarification of any new regulations in precise detail to the airlines in advance of the August 12th changes, especially if it could have an impact on people being refused entrance. It's a very different thing to refuse entry at an airport than a land border. Certain international treaties come into play as well.

At that point everyone will know exactly what's going to change.

But this is Thailand and sometimes things don't work in the same way here as they do elsewhere.

------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed -- and therein lies a huge conflict of interests since the consulates rely on the income. Central government would need to lay down clearer rules for the consulates to follow. Remember the changes to Hull's approach after pressure from above a few years ago? It is perfectly possible for visas to be issued only in situations where they are pretty much certain to be accepted at the border, but the border immigration officer will *always* have the last say. Meantime the airlines are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, so they try to fail safe and make sure a traveller has at least got either a visa or an onward ticket.

Rules for airlines are clear as they are: visa exempt entry requires onward/return ticket, visa entry no special requirements. If the traveler gets refused that is the traveler's problem, not the airline's.

I would expect the airlines to start enforcing the rules a bit better though (maybe after some initial problems).

[JDGRUEN]

It appears abundantly transparent that this is just the beginning of cleansing Thailand of undesirable foreigners.

• Next will be land bought with a shell company.
• WP holders that are not actually working.
• B Visa holders that have absolutely no business here in Thailand whatsoever.
• Retirement Visa's and those that never really had the money in the bank to qualify but paid under the table.
• Marriage visa holders that do not live with the wife anymore.

The list goes on and on.

There is a mass cleansing approaching this will effect not only the tourist visa runners but almost everyone regardless of what you read here not everyone is a squeaky clean as they make out....watch your back, your turn is coming.

Really?? Where do you get this info?? I have two friends in immigration and they have both told me they time has come. They have been trying to stop people from working illegally. They don't care how long you stay in Thailand just get the right visa. They are tired of people skirting the rules to live and work here.

So please tell me where you are getting your information?

Speculation and stating opinion are legitimate part of any Forum discussion ... if you do not share his opinion - share yours ... Posting on a Forum does not all have to be one with back up links. To me it was obvious that Xeno was speculating ... some people just can't handle that...