Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, beeper said:

Is this standard procedure for all life insurances in Thailand?

No it isn't.

My former Thai wife was required to buy a Life Insurance with her home loan, no medical or tests required.

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, beeper said:

I have PR for over 2 years now and have secured a mortgage with UOB (same as available for Thais) to buy a condo. The mortgage has to be accompanied by a life insurance.
Insurance company Prudential is asking me to submit to an HIV test before finalizing the insurance.
Is this standard procedure for all life insurances in Thailand?


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I have a life insurance policy with Prudential which I took out just to take advantage of the tax benefit.  I was not asked to undergo any medical tests and wouldn't have bothered with the policy, if they had asked for that, because it was not essential to have it.  The sales rep came to my house and I remember asking her about medical tests and she said they sometimes asked for but it wouldn't be necessary in this case without further explanation.

 

A friend had a very similar case to yours. His Thai wife applied for a mortgage for a house and the bank insisted on life insurance with a firm that asked her for medical checks.  He got so irritated with the bank for being slow and giving conflicting information and the insurance company that he told both he would blow them off, if the latter still insisted on the medical checks. Miraculously the insurance rep came back to him and told him that he no longer needed the medical checks.  My understanding is that these medical checks are not compulsory in every case at most insurance companies but they try to get them, if they can, to reduce their risk. However, insurance reps make a fair bit of upfront commission on life policies and, if they see that about to vaporise in front of their eyes, they may put pressure on the boss to waive the medical checks.  Perhaps they have to agree to a charge back of commission, if the insured then kicks the bucket from AIDS in short order.   

[Arkady]

18 hours ago, samran said:

Yeah I was confused why such an old ministerial order was placed on the same page as the 2019 announcement but figured they knew what they were doing...

 

So am i right to understand that if you apply on the basis of having three years consecutive work and visa history - that if you just also happen to be married to a Thai citizen they will automatically lower the income threshold? 

 

Or are you technically applying under another category?

If there is no longer a salary requirement in the current guidelines, I think we can assume that the basic requirement of B80,000 a month applies to applicants providing "patronage".  I doubt than anyone was ever successful applying on the basis of B30,000 income of the patronage provider when that was in the guidelines or ministerial order. Those who have tried applying under this category have reported earlier in this thread that they had to meet all the same qualifications as those applying under the regular business category.  Those who applied under the investor category reported the same thing and advised applying under the business category as regular employees instead to avoid overly burdensome scrutiny of the business they have invested in. Basically there is one category for application for PR, as far as Immigration is concerned, and the others are just there for show and to give them the opportunity to demand more documents from applicants with no benefit to the latter.  I have also heard that lawyers regularly advise their clients that they need to show more than the B80,000 minimum salary to have a chance but can't say, if people get through with the minimum.  Perhaps that would be a case where providing patronage to a Thai wife and kids would help actually help.

 

What I am not sure about, although I am sure there is discussion about it earlier in this thread, is whether you have to apply under the patronage category in order to get the discount for having a Thai spouse. I think not but maybe someone with more experience can chip in on this point. 

[Neeranam]

I got a housr mortgage without PR or medical checks. However, the buildrr of the house was the vice president of the bank next to my bank.

[beeper]

I have a life insurance policy with Prudential which I took out just to take advantage of the tax benefit.  I was not asked to undergo any medical tests and wouldn't have bothered with the policy, if they had asked for that, because it was not essential to have it.  The sales rep came to my house and I remember asking her about medical tests and she said they sometimes asked for but it wouldn't be necessary in this case without further explanation.
 
A friend had a very similar case to yours. His Thai wife applied for a mortgage for a house and the bank insisted on life insurance with a firm that asked her for medical checks.  He got so irritated with the bank for being slow and giving conflicting information and the insurance company that he told both he would blow them off, if the latter still insisted on the medical checks. Miraculously the insurance rep came back to him and told him that he no longer needed the medical checks.  My understanding is that these medical checks are not compulsory in every case at most insurance companies but they try to get them, if they can, to reduce their risk. However, insurance reps make a fair bit of upfront commission on life policies and, if they see that about to vaporise in front of their eyes, they may put pressure on the boss to waive the medical checks.  Perhaps they have to agree to a charge back of commission, if the insured then kicks the bucket from AIDS in short order.   

Thanks good to hear there seems to be some flexibility. Insurance contract, mortgage contract and condo contract are signed and their request to test came after that. Will sit it out and see what happens


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[mortenaa]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:02 AM, Neeranam said:

I got a housr mortgage without PR or medical checks. However, the buildrr of the house was the vice president of the bank next to my bank.

Would be interesting to hear how you got a house mortgage for a house you are not allowed to legally own in Thailand. Well, I know there are ways around it, with leasing contracts etc, but there aren't a way to mortgage a leased property either...  

[thedemon]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:32 AM, beeper said:

I have PR for over 2 years now and have secured a mortgage with UOB (same as available for Thais) to buy a condo. The mortgage has to be accompanied by a life insurance.
Insurance company Prudential is asking me to submit to an HIV test before finalizing the insurance.
Is this standard procedure for all life insurances in Thailand?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I bought 2 condos 3-4 years ago with a mortgage from Kasikorn. The life insurance covering the loan is from Kasikorn's own insurance company. I don't recall the exact amount of the premium but it is less than 10k p/a.

 

I don't recall being asked anything at all from the insurer, certainly no medical checks.

[onthemoon]

17 hours ago, thedemon said:

I bought 2 condos 3-4 years ago with a mortgage from Kasikorn. The life insurance covering the loan is from Kasikorn's own insurance company. I don't recall the exact amount of the premium but it is less than 10k p/a.

 

I don't recall being asked anything at all from the insurer, certainly no medical checks.

Same here with Bangkok Bank, about 6 years ago. When I paid off the loan faster than expected, they returned the remaining part of the insurance fee.

[beeper]

Same here with Bangkok Bank, about 6 years ago. When I paid off the loan faster than expected, they returned the remaining part of the insurance fee.

Thanks. Out of curiosity, for your respective mortgages did you require a Thai co-signatory?
I checked 10 banks for mortgage for PR holder but only UOB did not require Thai co-signatory

[onthemoon]

13 hours ago, beeper said:

Thanks. Out of curiosity, for your respective mortgages did you require a Thai co-signatory?
I checked 10 banks for mortgage for PR holder but only UOB did not require Thai co-signatory

 

I am not 100% sure, but yes, I think so. If so, I think this was not because I am foreigner but because Thai banks always need another person guarantee for a loan.

[mortenaa]

14 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I am not 100% sure, but yes, I think so. If so, I think this was not because I am foreigner but because Thai banks always need another person guarantee for a loan.

I didn't need any guarantee when i bought a condo years ago.

[Smokegreynblues]

For those who already got PR, how do you maintain your PR? Suppose if you got an overseas assignment of 2 years for working in another country. How many days you need to live in Thailand each year to get your endorsement for Non Quota immigrant visa? 

If i do manage to get PR in future, and then move on for better overseas opportunities a year or two at a time, but still want to maintain my PR, is it possible?

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

For those who already got PR, how do you maintain your PR? Suppose if you got an overseas assignment of 2 years for working in another country. How many days you need to live in Thailand each year to get your endorsement for Non Quota immigrant visa? 

If i do manage to get PR in future, and then move on for better overseas opportunities a year or two at a time, but still want to maintain my PR, is it possible?

You only have to be here once a year long enough to get a new non quota visa and re-entry permit.

You cannot be out of the country for longer than a year is the only requirement.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You only have to be here once a year long enough to get a new non quota visa and re-entry permit.

You cannot be out of the country for longer than a year is the only requirement.

explained to me at the PR interview (20+ yrs ago):

 

- You can be outside of Thailand in one block period of 364 days and you don't lose your PR.

- If you are outside of Thailand for 365 days or more it's gone and there is no review process.

 

Not difficult to achieve.

 

The exit/re-entry stamps don't have to align to any of the above, but overall must be kept valid. 

[thedemon]

To add to the above, you can get (buy) a new multi re-entry any time. You don't need to wait for it to expire.

 

Therefore if you were to visit Thailand e.g. 6-7 months after issuing your 12 month re-entry, you could get a new one to give you another 12 months from that date.

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, thedemon said:

To add to the above, you can get (buy) a new multi re-entry any time. You don't need to wait for it to expire.

 

Therefore if you were to visit Thailand e.g. 6-7 months after issuing your 12 month re-entry, you could get a new one to give you another 12 months from that date.

All true. Plenty / most PR holders get an exit/re-entry stamp (single of multiple) when they have planned travel out of Thailand, and when it expired just wait until they have a planned trip and then get the next exit/re-entry stamp.  And/or you can get it re-issued before the current stamp expires.

 

I did this just a few days ago, got a new multiple exit/re-entry stamp 3 months before the expiry of the current multiple entry. The immigration lady politely pointed out that the current stamp was good for another 3 months, then I explained the reason I wanted to a new multiple early and she instantly said 'ohh no problem'. 

 

[scorecard]

On 11/19/2019 at 6:36 PM, scorecard said:

explained to me at the PR interview (20+ yrs ago):

 

- You can be outside of Thailand in one block period of 364 days and you don't lose your PR.

- If you are outside of Thailand for 365 days or more it's gone and there is no review process.

 

Not difficult to achieve.

 

The exit/re-entry stamps don't have to align to any of the above, but overall must be kept valid. 

My last paragraph can be misinterpreted, so I will re-write that paragraph, as follows:

 

- The exit/re-entry stamps don't have to align to any of the above.

 

- Getting exit/re-entry stamps annually is NOT necessary. 

 

- You do need to have a valid exit/re-entry stamp every time you exit Thailand.

 

- If you have If you have a multiple entry stamp both your exit and return actual dates must be

  within the single trip exit/re-entry dates, or within 1 year validity dates on the multiple

  entry stamp.

 

- Many PR holders have mentioned before that they wait until they book a journey then they go

   to an immigration office and get a single exit/re-entry stamp. In reality for many folks that

   means they have not had a valid stamp for several or many years; until it's needed because

   of a planned trip. Nothing at all wrong with this approach, all completely legal. 

 

- On the other hand for PR holders who exit / re-enter frequently it's more practical to get

   a new multiple entry stamp (one year validity), either:

         - Just after their current one year validity stamp has expired,

         - Or just wait until the next trip comes up and then get a new one year multiple stamp.     Both approaches are legal in every way.

 

It's possible to get the exit/re-entry stamp at many airports:

  - Check-in to get boarding pass, deposit check-in bags etc.

  - Go through outwards security check

  - Go to the exit/re-entry stamp desk just before the actual passport stamping desks and get       a new exit/re-entry stamp (need to check opening/closing time of this desk for the airport

     you are using)

  - Go to actual passport stamping queue. (Many PR holders have been informed by airport

     immigration staff (self included) that immigration prefers PR holders to use the Thai

     passport lines). 

[Dogmatix]

To summarize. Always ensure you have a valid re-entry stamp when you leave the country that will still be valid on your return, even if you are unexpectedly delayed. It’s always possible to renew even months before the old stamp expires to give you enough time for a lengthy absence abroad.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

To summarize. Always ensure you have a valid re-entry stamp when you leave the country that will still be valid on your return, even if you are unexpectedly delayed. It’s always possible to renew even months before the old stamp expires to give you enough time for a lengthy absence abroad.

True, I got a new multiple exit/re-entry 12 months validity stamp jut recently.  The polite immigration lady mentioned 'but you still have over 3 months remaining on your current 12 months stamp', I explained that I was departing Thailand in the very near future and it was lekley my return would be after the current stamp expired.

 

She instantly said 'ohh now I understand, no problem' and she issued a new stamp starting that same day. No hassle whatever. 

[Arkady]

i may have missed something but is there any word on the application window for 2019 yet?

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Arkady said:

i may have missed something but is there any word on the application window for 2019 yet?

 

Announced in late June. July 1st to December 31st (really December 27th due to holidays).

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

11 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

 

It's possible to get the exit/re-entry stamp at many airports:

 

I have been under the impression that the re-entry endorsement to one's resident book, which is necessary in addition to the re-entry permit in one's passport, can only be obtained at the relevant immigration office, not the airport. I would be very pleased to be advised that my understanding is incorrect.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I have been under the impression that the re-entry endorsement to one's resident book, which is necessary in addition to the re-entry permit in one's passport, can only be obtained at the relevant immigration office, not the airport. I would be very pleased to be advised that my understanding is incorrect.

That's not my understanding but I don't know about airports other than Bkk (DM) and Chiang Mai.

 

Further, I've never heard of the endorsement and the exit/re-entry process as separate activities, but as above I have no experience with other airports. 

 

If you need an answer on this point perhaps call the imm. police at your local airport and ask, or have a Thai person ask., or go to the airport and ask. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

i may have missed something but is there any word on the application window for 2019 yet?

I just googled and found two websites saying it is open from July 1, 2019 until the last business day of December 2019.

Edited December 2, 2019 by GabbaGabbaHey

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

That's not my understanding but I don't know about airports other than Bkk (DM) and Chiang Mai.

 

Further, I've never heard of the endorsement and the exit/re-entry process as separate activities, but as above I have no experience with other airports. 

 

If you need an answer on this point perhaps call the imm. police at your local airport and ask, or have a Thai person ask., or go to the airport and ask. 

Have you been able to obtain the re-entry endorsement in your residence book at Don Muang airport and/or Chaing Mai airport?  

Edited December 2, 2019 by Etaoin Shrdlu

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Have you been able to obtain the re-entry endorsement in your residence book at Don Muang airport and/or Chaing Mai airport?  

No never, I have always (over 20+ years) obtained the exit/re-entry stamps (always multi entry) at an immigration office, most recently at Chiang Mai immigration, all done with no hassle, in 20 minutes.

 

I did years ago ask at DM airport if the fee was different compared to getting the stamps at an actual immigration office. The answer was that it's the same fee but the Immigration senior on duty that day said 'better if farang with PR get the stamps at an immigration office because it might be possible the imm. officer on duty at the airport (at the desk to get exit/re-entry stamps) might not know how to handle all the documents for folks who hold PR.

Edited December 2, 2019 by scorecard

[FarangRimPing]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

No never, I have always (over 20+ years) obtained the exit/re-entry stamps (always multi entry) at an immigration office, most recently at Chiang Mai immigration, all done with no hassle, in 20 minutes.

 

I did years ago ask at DM airport if the fee was different compared to getting the stamps at an actual immigration office. The answer was that it's the same fee but the Immigration senior on duty that day said 'better if farang with PR get the stamps at an immigration office because it might be possible the imm. officer on duty at the airport (at the desk to get exit/re-entry stamps) might not know how to handle all the documents for folks who hold PR.

To be clear, Chaing Mai Immigration was able to process the TM13 (Endorsement/Re-entry) as well as the TM22 (Immigrant Visa)? Up until now, I have been having these processed at Chang Wattana every year.

[mortenaa]

18 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I have been under the impression that the re-entry endorsement to one's resident book, which is necessary in addition to the re-entry permit in one's passport, can only be obtained at the relevant immigration office, not the airport. I would be very pleased to be advised that my understanding is incorrect.

That is also been my understanding, as it involves a stamp in both the PR book and the passport. 

[SteveB2]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:52 AM, mortenaa said:

That is also been my understanding, as it involves a stamp in both the PR book and the passport. 

Correct- Confirmed by my departure through Bangkok SVM Airport a few days ago.

Both your passport and your PR book must have the VISA stamp in it.

It is normal practice to have these put in your passsport and PR book BEFORE you arrange travel out of the kingdom by visiting your local immigration office.

 

On departure...

Both your passport and PR book are checked and both stamped by the immigration officer. 

You will also be given a TM6 to fill in for your departure. This is also stamped with your departure date.

The small tear portion off the TM6 is used for departure and is retained by the IMO.

The large portion of the TM6 is used for your return to Thailand.

The 'Alien Book' was not requested by the IMO.

Hope this info helps.

[mortenaa]

On 12/6/2019 at 1:27 AM, SteveB2 said:

Correct- Confirmed by my departure through Bangkok SVM Airport a few days ago.

Both your passport and your PR book must have the VISA stamp in it.

It is normal practice to have these put in your passsport and PR book BEFORE you arrange travel out of the kingdom by visiting your local immigration office.

 

On departure...

Both your passport and PR book are checked and both stamped by the immigration officer. 

You will also be given a TM6 to fill in for your departure. This is also stamped with your departure date.

The small tear portion off the TM6 is used for departure and is retained by the IMO.

The large portion of the TM6 is used for your return to Thailand.

The 'Alien Book' was not requested by the IMO.

Hope this info helps.

I only use the electronic gates. No stamps, no TM6, but of course I make sure that I have the re-entry permit in order.