Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Can confirm, salary and number of employees is irrelevant for PRs renewing work permit.

Number of employees also? I can work for my own one-man show, as long as there is a 51%  Thai shareholder? That would be great news.

[onthemoon]

How long in  advance can I renew the Immigrant Visa / endorsement? Mine will expire in one month, but I might need my passport for other purposes, so I want to do it now. One month should be OK in my feeling, but I am asking here because I want to save a useless trip to CW in case that is incorrect. TIA

[thedemon]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

How long in  advance can I renew the Immigrant Visa / endorsement? Mine will expire in one month, but I might need my passport for other purposes, so I want to do it now. One month should be OK in my feeling, but I am asking here because I want to save a useless trip to CW in case that is incorrect. TIA

 

You can do it any time, even 11 months before expiry is fine. Immigration collect THB5700 for 10 minutes work so it's good business.

[Jujus]

12 hours ago, onthemoon said:

How far in advance before the re-entry permit (excuse me: Non-quote Immigrant Visa) expires can we renew it? One month?

 

Mine expires in a month, but I want to renew it now, because my passport will be needed to add a second work permit. It always takes  a bit longer for a new WP, so at least I want to have the stamp in the PP before I'll leave 5 days before the expiry of the re-entry, err, visa.

If I'm not mistaken, you can renew it anytime, even 6 months or more before it expires, as you should be able to stay out of the country for maximum a year, starting anytime of your liking.

[onthemoon]

On 9/1/2017 at 7:56 AM, sas_cars said:

As somebody was recently asking about the process to return if a PR holder loses his PR book and passport while overseas, I asked this very question yesterday when I visited the PR department for my re-entry. They informed that you can just come back (provided you still had valid rentry) and upon reaching a border check point, YOU NEED TO INSIST THAT YOU ARE A PR HOLDER which was lost overseas, they can check your status on their computers and will give you correct entry, then you need to visit the PR department to have your PR book reissued. If in case you are from a visa required country (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Africa etc) , the airlines won't let you board without a visa, so just for that purpose, you can get a tourist visa. But once you arrive, you don't have to use that tourist visa, just insist to the immigration officer of your PR status and they will do the needful and give you the correct entry.

Still, if there is someone whose due to go there for re entry, ask someone again as usually every thai officer has a different version of events. Better to double check.

I am at Immi in CW now, waiting for my passport with the new re-entry stamp, and I asked what to do if I lose either the passport or the white book while overseas.

 

She said you'll need to have a passport anyway to enter Thailand; just tell the immigration officer at passport control that you are PR holder, and he should give you a special form which you need to bring to CW. They'll them do the paperwork and issue the new book.

 

She repeated that I should insist on the paper from the immigration officer, and that it will take some time... ;-)

[sas_cars]

56 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I am at Immi in CW now, waiting for my passport with the new re-entry stamp, and I asked what to do if I lose either the passport or the white book while overseas.

 

She said you'll need to have a passport anyway to enter Thailand; just tell the immigration officer at passport control that you are PR holder, and he should give you a special form which you need to bring to CW. They'll them do the paperwork and issue the new book.

 

She repeated that I should insist on the paper from the immigration officer, and that it will take some time... ;-)

 

Thanks for the update on the matter. I still hope that nobody has to suffer this experience (losing PR while overseas) . Still, better to be armed with knowledge about what to do if this unfortunate thing actually happens to a PR holder.

[Bangel72]

This bit can be pretty hard when they assume you are in the wrong and do not know what you are asking for.  'She repeated that I should insist on the paper from the immigration officer, and that it will take some time... ;-)'

Even getting my red book from the local police station turned out to be a hardship, being told its impossible and try other police station a number of times, only thing that finally worked was having the contact number of the girl from Chaeng Wattana and had to get them to speak with her directly. I recommend having the number of a contact there to give to people.

Had a similar issue with local office refusing to believe it was possible for a Farang to get on the blue house book, absolutely adamant that it was not possible.

Going with view, just do not lose your PR book.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Bangel72

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, sas_cars said:

 

Thanks for the update on the matter. I still hope that nobody has to suffer this experience (losing PR while overseas) . Still, better to be armed with knowledge about what to do if this unfortunate thing actually happens to a PR holder.

As they say: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

This bit can be pretty hard when they assume you are in the wrong and do not know what you are asking for.  'She repeated that I should insist on the paper from the immigration officer, and that it will take some time... ;-)'

Even getting my red book from the local police station turned out to be a hardship, being told its impossible and try other police station a number of times, only thing that finally worked was having the contact number of the girl from Chaeng Wattana and had to get them to speak with her directly. I recommend having the number of a contact there to give to people.

Had a similar issue with local office refusing to believe it was possible for a Farang to get on the blue house book, absolutely adamant that it was not possible.

Going with view, just do not lose your PR book.

The problem is that the government officials are often not properly trained. Hence, it is not their fault, they are just trying to do the best according to their knowledge.

[onthemoon]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:15 AM, thedemon said:

 

You can do it any time, even 11 months before expiry is fine. Immigration collect THB5700 for 10 minutes work so it's good business.

 

On 9/26/2017 at 9:50 AM, Jujus said:

If I'm not mistaken, you can renew it anytime, even 6 months or more before it expires, as you should be able to stay out of the country for maximum a year, starting anytime of your liking.

I renewed the re-entry/endorsement today, and they are valid for a year from now. I would have hoped them to be valid for a year from the original expiry date.

[THAIJAMES]

On 9/29/2017 at 4:16 PM, onthemoon said:

 

I renewed the re-entry/endorsement today, and they are valid for a year from now. I would have hoped them to be valid for a year from the original expiry date.

That would not be very good for persons who travel only once every 2 years :)

 

Even Though I leave the country 4-5 times a year, there is usually a couple months after the re-entry has expired and when I need a new one.  So not having to go to immigration more frequently than I have to is a better option for me.

 

Ideally it would expire 1 year after you actually leave the country.  But that is only a few days loss for most people.

[onthemoon]

Thaijames, I meant if the previous re-entry is still valid. Not if it has expired already.

 

Anyway, I think it would be good if we could do the renewal by internet, paying by credit card. It's in the computer system anyway, no need for the stamp which takes away a whole page in the passport.

[Michael Hare]

7 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Thaijames, I meant if the previous re-entry is still valid. Not if it has expired already.

 

Anyway, I think it would be good if we could do the renewal by internet, paying by credit card. It's in the computer system anyway, no need for the stamp which takes away a whole page in the passport.

Up country in Ubon Ratchathani it takes me about 2-3 hours at the local immigration to get my multi-re-entry permit for one year. The reason for taking so long is that they never see a single PR person every year. Thus, they do not have the experience in getting all the documents done correctly. In the end, though taking time,  it is done correctly and there are no problems. But they still triple check everything to make sure that the documents are signed and stamped correctly. 

 

I therefore only go to get a re-entry just before leaving Thailand and not every year. There was a time some years ago when I was nursing my late wife with cancer that I did not leave Thailand for 7 years.  I find re-entry permits documentation very easy but slow

 

It is the yearly work permits for owning a company that are a pain. Photos of work place, photos of doing work, health check, personal tax paid in full, company tax paid in full, photos of this and that. Altogether at least 100 pages of documents. As an employee it is a breeze. As a owner very difficult.

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Up country in Ubon Ratchathani it takes me about 2-3 hours at the local immigration to get my multi-re-entry permit for one year. The reason for taking so long is that they never see a single PR person every year. Thus, they do not have the experience in getting all the documents done correctly. In the end, though taking time,  it is done correctly and there are no problems. But they still triple check everything to make sure that the documents are signed and stamped correctly. 

 

I therefore only go to get a re-entry just before leaving Thailand and not every year. There was a time some years ago when I was nursing my late wife with cancer that I did not leave Thailand for 7 years.  I find re-entry permits documentation very easy but slow

 

It is the yearly work permits for owning a company that are a pain. Photos of work place, photos of doing work, health check, personal tax paid in full, company tax paid in full, photos of this and that. Altogether at least 100 pages of documents. As an employee it is a breeze. As a owner very difficult.

 

I don't do the work permit by myself, we use a company for that. They get all the necessary docs from our accounting department. Money worth spent. But PR holders shouldn't need work permits; in many countries they don't. There was a discussion a few years ago about this - I don't know whether it is still going on.

[onthemoon]

By the way, I forgot to mention: When you apply for the re-entry and the endorsement, you have to fill in your latest arrival date. If you use the auto-channel, there is no stamp in your passport, so make sure you remember the date.

They will check this, and the officer was looking in my (almost full again) passport for the stamp, until I told her that I used the auto-channel. She then went to look in the computer for my latest arrival and wrote it by hand into my white book including flight number.

[Michael Hare]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

 

I don't do the work permit by myself, we use a company for that. They get all the necessary docs from our accounting department. Money worth spent. But PR holders shouldn't need work permits; in many countries they don't. There was a discussion a few years ago about this - I don't know whether it is still going on.

I also get the accounting company to do my work permit. Still a pain. Have to have that health check that takes an hour or so. Then getting the photos of myself at various work places with the staff. 

[mortenaa]

16 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Up country in Ubon Ratchathani it takes me about 2-3 hours at the local immigration to get my multi-re-entry permit for one year. The reason for taking so long is that they never see a single PR person every year. Thus, they do not have the experience in getting all the documents done correctly. In the end, though taking time,  it is done correctly and there are no problems. But they still triple check everything to make sure that the documents are signed and stamped correctly. 

 

I therefore only go to get a re-entry just before leaving Thailand and not every year. There was a time some years ago when I was nursing my late wife with cancer that I did not leave Thailand for 7 years.  I find re-entry permits documentation very easy but slow

 

It is the yearly work permits for owning a company that are a pain. Photos of work place, photos of doing work, health check, personal tax paid in full, company tax paid in full, photos of this and that. Altogether at least 100 pages of documents. As an employee it is a breeze. As a owner very difficult.

 

I am owner and MD of a company. I renew WP every year, and never asked to show a single picture of anything. Renewing the WP is a speedy process.

[Michael Hare]

27 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

 

I am owner and MD of a company. I renew WP every year, and never asked to show a single picture of anything. Renewing the WP is a speedy process.

I am very surprised by that. Here in Ubon, I have to submit a medical certificate (to show that I am not insane or mentally sick, do not have leprosy, TB, no drug addiction, not an alcoholic, have no syphilis), complete copy of the company's accounts for the previous year, show Tax paid by the company, VAT payments, my own personnel tax payment for the previous year, photos of me at my work place with all my employees, complete set of company registration documents and list of shareholders

[mortenaa]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I am very surprised by that. Here in Ubon, I have to submit a medical certificate (to show that I am not insane or mentally sick, do not have leprosy, TB, no drug addiction, not an alcoholic, have no syphilis), complete copy of the company's accounts for the previous year, show Tax paid by the company, VAT payments, my own personnel tax payment for the previous year, photos of me at my work place with all my employees, complete set of company registration documents and list of shareholders

 

All the paperwork is standard procedure. I remember before being PR, Immigration needed to see pictures for yearly extension, but Labor department never. The med cert is just a formality. Any clinic will issue one within 5 minutes.

[Michael Hare]

4 hours ago, mortenaa said:

 

All the paperwork is standard procedure. I remember before being PR, Immigration needed to see pictures for yearly extension, but Labor department never. The med cert is just a formality. Any clinic will issue one within 5 minutes.

With PR there is no yearly extension at Immigration. In fact, one never has to go to immigration at all for the rest of one's life unless getting that visa/re-entry permit to leave the country. Before owing a company and working for another company as an employee, everything with the work permit was easy with PR. Now owning one's own country it is straight forward if all the documents which I discussed above are there-tax paid, company tax paid, photos at work, health certificate etc. 

[GeneralWoundwort]

Does anyone know what happens to successful PR applicants who do not have a Household Registration document?

I live and work in Bangkok and my wife's official address (as per her tabien baan) is in Chiang Rai. I'd rather not attempt the post-approval procedures there, assuming my application is successful, so a friend has offered a temporary solution in Bangkok. It made me wonder what happens to those who don't have any Household Registration options. Is there a central register that one would end up on?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, GeneralWoundwort said:

Does anyone know what happens to successful PR applicants who do not have a Household Registration document?

For a PR application you do not need to have a registration in Bangkok. They accept the applications from people living all over the country since that is in reality the only place you can apply.

[Michael Hare]

5 hours ago, GeneralWoundwort said:

Does anyone know what happens to successful PR applicants who do not have a Household Registration document?

I live and work in Bangkok and my wife's official address (as per her tabien baan) is in Chiang Rai. I'd rather not attempt the post-approval procedures there, assuming my application is successful, so a friend has offered a temporary solution in Bangkok. It made me wonder what happens to those who don't have any Household Registration options. Is there a central register that one would end up on?

As far as know, when one applies for PR, one as already got household registration, though on a temporary basis. Then when PR is successful, this household registration is transferred across to the official Thai household registration. At least this is what happened to me 15 years ago.

 

I guess it comes down to how one is getting PR. If as as a person married to a Thai, then the registration as to be on your wife's registration. If getting PR on a business category or as a single person, then I don't know. Probably either at your workplace or where you live. 

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, GeneralWoundwort said:

Does anyone know what happens to successful PR applicants who do not have a Household Registration document?

I live and work in Bangkok and my wife's official address (as per her tabien baan) is in Chiang Rai. I'd rather not attempt the post-approval procedures there, assuming my application is successful, so a friend has offered a temporary solution in Bangkok. It made me wonder what happens to those who don't have any Household Registration options. Is there a central register that one would end up on?

You are obliged to register your address in a tabien baan (household registration book), like Thai people. If you don't do that, you are subject to the same penalties as Thai people, I will assume. Breaking the law is not a good start for your newly-gained PR, I'd say, regardless of whether the penalty is severe.

[blokker]

After 10 years in Thailand with non-immigrant B and working permit, I decided to bite the bullet and to apply for a PR. First two tasks on the to-do list:  "Copy of the applicant’s educational certificate, must be officially certified by the national embassy located in Thailand, translated into Thai and certified by the Official of Department of Consular Affairs", and a "Certificate of no criminal record" from the home country (with all the stamps, etc.).

 

I asked the Dutch embassy in Bangkok if they can make certified copies of my degrees and my "no criminal record" document from The Netherlands. Embassy said no: they only make certified copies of passports and drivers licences, and referred me to government branches back in the Netherlands.

 

Has anyone perhaps dealt with this problem before for the PR application? (embassy in Bangkok does not certify documents). Is legalisation of my degrees and criminal record by the Thai embassy in the Netherlands a way out? (living in Bangkok, so not easy)
Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by blokker

[GeneralWoundwort]

On 06/10/2017 at 7:42 PM, Michael Hare said:

As far as know, when one applies for PR, one as already got household registration, though on a temporary basis. Then when PR is successful, this household registration is transferred across to the official Thai household registration. At least this is what happened to me 15 years ago.

 

I guess it comes down to how one is getting PR. If as as a person married to a Thai, then the registration as to be on your wife's registration. If getting PR on a business category or as a single person, then I don't know. Probably either at your workplace or where you live. 

Many thanks, Michael. I have heard of others being registered on a friend's tabien baan, but if registration on the same document as my wife is required I will have to complete this process in Chiang Rai, which should be interesting.

[GeneralWoundwort]

On 06/10/2017 at 11:00 PM, onthemoon said:

You are obliged to register your address in a tabien baan (household registration book), like Thai people. If you don't do that, you are subject to the same penalties as Thai people, I will assume. Breaking the law is not a good start for your newly-gained PR, I'd say, regardless of whether the penalty is severe.

Thank you, onthemoon. I have no intention of not registering, but wondered what would happen to people who don't have any option, although I doubt there are many. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by GeneralWoundwort
Incorrect profile name

[SteveB2]

6 hours ago, blokker said:

After 10 years in Thailand with non-immigrant B and working permit, I decided to bite the bullet and to apply for a PR. First two tasks on the to-do list:  "Copy of the applicant’s educational certificate, must be officially certified by the national embassy located in Thailand, translated into Thai and certified by the Official of Department of Consular Affairs", and a "Certificate of no criminal record" from the home country (with all the stamps, etc.).

 

I asked the Dutch embassy in Bangkok if they can make certified copies of my degrees and my "no criminal record" document from The Netherlands. Embassy said no: they only make certified copies of passports and drivers licences, and referred me to government branches back in the Netherlands.

 

Has anyone perhaps dealt with this problem before for the PR application? (embassy in Bangkok does not certify documents). Is legalisation of my degrees and criminal record by the Thai embassy in the Netherlands a way out? (living in Bangkok, so not easy)
Thanks

 

Hi Blokker - I recently completed the PR process and was issued with PR during March this year.

 

The legalisation of documents and home country Criminal background record checks all had to be carried out back in Europe and was a complain pain in the  to do.

 

The legalisation of documents such as a degree certificate, divorce certificate, for PR now requires an 'Apostille' to be attached to them. I got my family back in Europe to carry out this process for me - if they hadn't of helped, I have no idea what I would have done.

 

Be careful with the criminal background record check - the CW-PR group will only accept it if it under 6 months old  - so if your application fails the first time (I applied for PR 4 times before being accepted on the 5th...) then you will need to go through the whole Crim Record check process all over again.

 

BTW, while my mom was at the London Thai Embassy, she met a PR applicant who was there to hand process his documents. He had tried to carry out the process twice before by courier post - and the Thai Embassy had lost his precious original documents on both occasions!

 

A decade ago, a good friend had a heart attack and died on the same day he was issued with with PR. I think the strain had been just too much for him.

 

To say one needs a lot of tenacity embedded in your character to succeed in your PR application is one hell of an understatement. 

 

So good luck to you - you'll need it 

 

 

 

[orientalist]

3 hours ago, GeneralWoundwort said:

Thank you, onthemoon. I have no intention of not registering, but wondered what would happen to people who don't have any option, although I doubt there are many. 

 

This is mostly a problem for single guys who don't own a condo. I have been on my landlady's tabien baan for many years, which makes it difficult to consider moving to cheaper accommodation. In case of her untimely demise, my Plan B is the tabien baan of a friend. Plan C would be to buy a condo.

[blokker]

17 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Hi Blokker - I recently completed the PR process and was issued with PR during March this year.

 

The legalisation of documents and home country Criminal background record checks all had to be carried out back in Europe and was a complain pain in the  to do.

 

The legalisation of documents such as a degree certificate, divorce certificate, for PR now requires an 'Apostille' to be attached to them. I got my family back in Europe to carry out this process for me - if they hadn't of helped, I have no idea what I would have done.

 

Be careful with the criminal background record check - the CW-PR group will only accept it if it under 6 months old  - so if your application fails the first time (I applied for PR 4 times before being accepted on the 5th...) then you will need to go through the whole Crim Record check process all over again.

 

BTW, while my mom was at the London Thai Embassy, she met a PR applicant who was there to hand process his documents. He had tried to carry out the process twice before by courier post - and the Thai Embassy had lost his precious original documents on both occasions!

 

A decade ago, a good friend had a heart attack and died on the same day he was issued with with PR. I think the strain had been just too much for him.

 

To say one needs a lot of tenacity embedded in your character to succeed in your PR application is one hell of an understatement. 

 

So good luck to you - you'll need it 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for the info!! And congratulations with your PR. Great example to see people stick through all the BS and secure their place here, without 90-day reporting, and exposure to ever changing visa requirements,  etc ... .

 

>> The legalisation of documents such as a degree certificate, divorce certificate, for PR now requires an 'Apostille' to be attached

 

Thanks once more. Good to know, as the rubber stamp track back in Europe is different for the Apostille. It's odd though that they require it at Immigration, as Thailand is not a member of the Apostille conventions itself??

https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/authorities1/?cid=41

 

>> Be careful with the criminal background record check - the CW-PR group will only accept it if it under 6 months old

 

Pain in the indeed. Thanks!

Is it Ok for Immigration if the legalized and translated educational degrees are more than 6 months old? That would save a lot of hassle.

 

>> A decade ago, a good friend had a heart attack and died on the same day he was issued with with PR. I think the strain had been just too much for him.

 

Yeah, a good reminder not to take it too serious. At the end of the day it's just a matter of checking all the boxes on that long list. One at a time.

Edited October 10, 2017 by blokker
Formatting