Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[samran]

I do not know. 2006/2007/2008 with all those applicants at minimum 95,000+ baht/person. Seems to be a nice chunk of change the government could pull in rather easily......

Or 200,000 baht in some cases. Good point. Despite all the speculation, there is no real logic to the idea that someone is waiting for money when the Interior Ministry has changed hands several times since 2006. The normal processing time used to be about 16 months, so it is currently the 2006 and 2007 applications that are overdue for approval.

It seems that the Thai citizenship applications are equally stuck, according to other posts on this forum.

Perhaps they are trying to tell us all something?

citizenship apps have always been of a black box...I guess that comes with the territory and you know when you apply.

PR applicants though rightly expected some sort of transparency and cetainty with the process.

[tombkk]

First letter of ID card number, free translation

1 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand after 31 May 2527

2 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand but reported late (after the 15 days period expired)

3 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) who have name in tabien baan born before 31 May 2527

4 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) but never had ID card before

5 is for Thai who was approved to miss census (didn't join census but puujai baan etc guarantee person is Thai...)

6 is for person who illegally or legally immigrated to Thailand but has residency not officially accepted by officer

7 is for children of 6

8 is for foregners who legally come to Thailand and are allowed to stay permanently and foreigners who get Thai Nationality

Thanks for this one. Do you have a link to the Thai original?

[tombkk]

I would like to know if legally a PR has to carry his passport and Alien's Book with him at all times. Since the passport doesn't carry a valid visa stamp, I would think he does.

When I got my alien book the police told me it had the force of an ID card and was supposed to be carried around at all times and that there was no longer any need to carry a passport. This seems logical as the origin of alien books was to control Chinese gangsters who would have had Chinese documents unreadable by Thai policemen, if they had any Chinese documents at all. Also it is issued by the police station where the alien lives and should therefore be reliable. The reality today is, however, that most Thais that need copies of your personal documents are not interested in your alien book. They usually want your passport and work permit. I had a polite row with a bank officer some years ago because she wanted to close down my bank account when I applied for a new savings book, because I didn't have a work permit at the time. She argued that an alien book, tabian baan and certificate of residence didn't count for anything without the magic little blue book. I refused to leave the bank until she had got some one from head office on the phone to explain to me the bank's curious policy not to allow permanent residents to bank with them without a work permit which meant that all PRs would have to do everything in cash, including share transactions etc after retirement. Eventually she got on the phone and was obviously roundly criticised by the person at head office and had to apologize to me for her stupidity. Basically you have to stand your ground in the face of this type of nonsense. If it comes from a government official you have the right to sue them in the Administrative Court. if all else fails.

The bank staff was not "stupid". It's the head office's fault: They don't train their staff properly.

So, blame the manager at head office who is in charge of staff development, or blame the board of directors for not having a staff development manager. But the poor girl only tried to do the best according to her training.

[MikeyIdea]

First letter of ID card number, free translation

1 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand after 31 May 2527

2 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand but reported late (after the 15 days period expired)

3 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) who have name in tabien baan born before 31 May 2527

4 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) but never had ID card before

5 is for Thai who was approved to miss census (didn't join census but puujai baan etc guarantee person is Thai...)

6 is for person who illegally or legally immigrated to Thailand but has residency not officially accepted by officer

7 is for children of 6

8 is for foregners who legally come to Thailand and are allowed to stay permanently and foreigners who get Thai Nationality

Thanks for this one. Do you have a link to the Thai original?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8966968/-13 but it's in Thai and you need to be a member to access

[Arkady]

I would like to know if legally a PR has to carry his passport and Alien's Book with him at all times. Since the passport doesn't carry a valid visa stamp, I would think he does.

When I got my alien book the police told me it had the force of an ID card and was supposed to be carried around at all times and that there was no longer any need to carry a passport. This seems logical as the origin of alien books was to control Chinese gangsters who would have had Chinese documents unreadable by Thai policemen, if they had any Chinese documents at all. Also it is issued by the police station where the alien lives and should therefore be reliable. The reality today is, however, that most Thais that need copies of your personal documents are not interested in your alien book. They usually want your passport and work permit. I had a polite row with a bank officer some years ago because she wanted to close down my bank account when I applied for a new savings book, because I didn't have a work permit at the time. She argued that an alien book, tabian baan and certificate of residence didn't count for anything without the magic little blue book. I refused to leave the bank until she had got some one from head office on the phone to explain to me the bank's curious policy not to allow permanent residents to bank with them without a work permit which meant that all PRs would have to do everything in cash, including share transactions etc after retirement. Eventually she got on the phone and was obviously roundly criticised by the person at head office and had to apologize to me for her stupidity. Basically you have to stand your ground in the face of this type of nonsense. If it comes from a government official you have the right to sue them in the Administrative Court. if all else fails.

The bank staff was not "stupid". It's the head office's fault: They don't train their staff properly.

So, blame the manager at head office who is in charge of staff development, or blame the board of directors for not having a staff development manager. But the poor girl only tried to do the best according to her training.

I beg to differ. The lady in question was not a "poor girl" but an experienced middle aged bank officer. The WP requirement was introduced as an anti-money laundering measure because it was thought too easy for foreigners on tourist visas up to no good to open bank accounts. The Bank of Thailand regulations introduced at the time made it clear that additional safeguards were required to open bank accounts for foreigners because they were not traceable through tabian baans etc but didn't specify what these should be. So asking for a WP was a band aid thought up by some banks to make foreigners traceable through their work and deny access to banking facilities to foreigners on transit and tourist visas who can just vaporize. On these criteria PRs with tabian baans are clearly on a higher level than foreigners on 1 year non B visas and a WP with what might be a flaky company that can powder or fire them and suddenly eliminate their right to stay. She also failed to use her brain and think through the issue of how PRs are expected to function in Thailand after retirement, if they are not allowed bank accounts, despite being granted life long visas by the Interior Minister in the expectation that they plan to spend the rest of their lives in Thailand. That thought (and I helped her through the thought process since she was having difficulties with it) should have been enough in itself to make a person of normal intelligence ask some one else before arbitrarily closing a bank account of a regular customer of many years standing who has a life long visa and a complete set of valid documents on hand, even if no WP.

[brianinbangkok]

Has anybody with a PR ever had to move his name from one tabien baan to an other tabien baan ?

As far as I understand it I have to go to the old amphur office where I was first registered (old house) together with the owner of the "new house" and there they will remove me from old Tabien Baan and give me a letter for the new house amphur office to register me on the "new tabien baan".

Then we have to go to the "new" amphur office and show letter and put my name in the "new" tabien baan.

Is this correct ?

[Arkady]

Has anybody with a PR ever had to move his name from one tabien baan to an other tabien baan ?

As far as I understand it I have to go to the old amphur office where I was first registered (old house) together with the owner of the "new house" and there they will remove me from old Tabien Baan and give me a letter for the new house amphur office to register me on the "new tabien baan".

Then we have to go to the "new" amphur office and show letter and put my name in the "new" tabien baan.

Is this correct ?

I have done it once. Although it seems logical to go with the house owner or householder or have him or her sign something, in my case the khet didn't want anything from the householder and I just signed a form to say I was moving to an address outside the khet. As far as I remember I took that paperwork together with a letter from the new house owner onfirming that I had permission to live there to the new khet and got a new tabien baan printed up on the spot with me as householder because there was no existing tabien baan for the house and they need some one to be the householder and take responsibility. I recommend calling both the offices in advance as things change and anyway different khets and amphurs seem to be laws unto themselves and make up the rules as they go along.

Don't forget to change the address in your alien book too. I did the tabien baan first because it is easier and the new tabien baan was accepted by the police as evidence of my new address without the need for any other documentation. You have to sign out of your old police district first and they will send your alien book with the paperwork to your new police precint. This seems to take about three weeks for some reason, although when you go to the new precint they will not have done anything at all with your alien book and you will probably come back again another day to pick up the book with the address changed and signed by one of the top dogs in the station. I think I got fined 100 baht for not notifying them within the prescribed time limit but I can't remember how long that is. Also don't forget the endorsements you need to get in your alien book every 1, 5 or 8 years, depending on I have no idea what. I was once fined 400 baht for forgetting to do this for four months.

For both of these operations bring all your documents with copies: passort, cert of residence, work permit, alien book, tabien baan. Also bring some photos just in case. It is sod's law that they will ask for whatever it was you were absolutely sure would not be needed. Oh and if you are married and/or have children bring all their documents with signed copies too plus a copy of your marriage certificate.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Just ran into another guy who waited two years for news after his PR application and finally got a call from Immigration to say they had discovered he had some directorships with Thai companies that didn't appear in his WP. He didn't think it was necessary to have WPs for these because he is a non-exec director but of course the law says otherwise. In his case, these directorships were not disclosed anywhere in his application and Immigration discovered them for themselves. I don't know if they found out because directors' fees appeared in his tax receipts or whether they scoured lists of directors. Standard procedure at the moment seems to be to give the miscreant the chance to withdraw the application and apply again after fixing the problem. The alternative is to let the application stand and take your chances with the Labour Ministry which is likely to prosecute for violation of the Working of Aliens Act, resulting in a fine and/or imprisonment followed by possible deportation and blacklisting.

Be warned. They are looking for reasons to reject and they have obviously wised up to the fact that applicants are prone to score own goals by acting as non-exec directors or doing voluntary work without WPs because they don't understand this falls within the law's very broad definition of work. Personally I find the attitude of the Labour Ministry and Immigration on this issue reprehensible. Without a detailed knowledge of Thai labour law, it is not intuitive that a WP is needed for these cases. The Labour Ministry could prevent expats from unintentionally violating the law by ensuring that notices are printed on WP application forms warning that these types of "work" also need to be recorded on WPs. Sadly I think they enjoy this situation and the result is criminalization of many expats, especially senior expats with decision making power about investments in Thailand who are more likely to be in this position. Immigration could also post similar warnings, including on the guidelines for applications for PR, but they choose not to. I wonder how many others have been caught like this.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Arkady

[jayboy]

They are looking for reasons to reject and they have obviously wised up to the fact that applicants are prone to score own goals by acting as non-exec directors or doing voluntary work without WPs because they don't understand this falls within the law's very broad definition of work. Personally I find the attitude of the Labour Ministry and Immigration on this issue reprehensible. Without a detailed knowledge of Thai labour law, it is not intuitive that a WP is needed for these cases. The Labour Ministry could prevent expats from unintentionally violating the law by ensuring that notices are printed on WP application forms warning that these types of "work" also need to be recorded on WPs. Sadly I think they enjoy this situation and the result is criminalization of many expats, especially senior expats with decision making power about investments in Thailand who are more likely to be in this position. Immigration could also post similar warnings, including on the guidelines for applications for PR, but they choose not to. I wonder how many others have been caught like this.

I disagree and furthermore there is no basis on which you can argue they are looking for reasons to reject.What I find reprehensible is not the Labour Ministry and Immigration (who are actually simply doing their job by enforcing the very clear rules ) but the apparent sense of entitlement that some foreigners think they have in Thailand.Application for permanent residence is a serious undertaking and is not to be undertaken on an intuitive basis.Most savvy residents know perfectly well that non-exec directorships have to be approved by the Labour Department.If someone, rather implausibly to my mind, has reached the stage of being able to apply for PR without knowledge of this fact, then he or she should probably hire an experienced immigration lawyer to handle the paper work.If there was a deliberate attempt to deceive for whatever reason, he deserves all the frustration and disappointment coming his way.

[brianinbangkok]

Don't forget to change the address in your alien book too. I did the tabien baan first because it is easier and the new tabien baan was accepted by the police as evidence of my new address without the need for any other documentation. You have to sign out of your old police district first and they will send your alien book with the paperwork to your new police precint. This seems to take about three weeks for some reason, although when you go to the new precint they will not have done anything at all with your alien book and you will probably come back again another day to pick up the book with the address changed and signed by one of the top dogs in the station. I think I got fined 100 baht for not notifying them within the prescribed time limit but I can't remember how long that is.

Thanks for the information, still 3 weeks is going to be a problem for me so I will ask if somebody else can pick it up for me later.

Do I actually need to show the red book when I travel ouside of Thailand ?

Was just passport and Certificate of Residency (Blue book) I thought, right ?

[MikeyIdea]

Arkady, I do not agree that immigration looks for reasons to reject at all. In fact, the officer that I talked to volunteered the information you bring forward as evidence of their mischief. Not that she needed to, I already knew and so should anyone who apply and do the paperwork himself, else he should use a competent lawyer to help him.

I found the immigration officers very helpful in every way, just be there at 8:30 and catch them at a time when they have plenty of time to spare, Monday is good, late week not so good as they have more to do, and you will get all the help you can ask for.

IMO, a person should either bring a Thai translator or must speak at least good Thai and must learn the vocabulary specific to what is expected to be communicated before going there. Obviously as we are in Thailand. I must say I agree with jayboy in this case

[camerata]

My experience in 2004/2005 was that no one was looking for reasons to reject me. Quite the opposite, in fact. But it may depend on the individual situation.

Three things I remember they could have given me a hard time about:

1. My medical certificate was not in the specific format required. So I did it again.

2. The photos of my work place and home did not have me in them because I took the photos! They didn't say anything.

3. Whoever signed my overseas criminal record check used a rubber stamp signature and black ink that made it look like the whole document was a copy. I said that was what I was sent. The Immigration Officer went to see her boss and he said it would be OK.

As regards directorships, I think Immigration are looking for full disclosure of what you are doing in Thailand, so it probably isn't a good idea to omit current stuff from your CV, even if it is an unpaid position.

[Arkady]

OK, maybe they are not looking for reasons to reject and, yes, the two examples I know of were rather naive not to question whether a work permit was required for a second job or a non-exec directorship. I took on a non-exec directorship myself years ago and I did make an enquiry beforehand as to whether I needed a WP or not. The informal answer from the Labour Ministry at that time was that strictly speaking it is required even for overseas based directors who attend board meetings in Thailand but you are unlikely to have any problems as a non-exec director who just attends occasional board meetings and is not an authorized signatory. In the event I accepted their informal advice not to bother but I am sure I would have had the directorship noted in my WP to be in line with the "strictly speaking" part of it, if my application had been still pending. I think a lot of expats think that it will very troublesome to get the second job in their WP but actually it is quite simple and you only have to ask. I suspect the Labour Ministry is no longer handing out the informal advice not to bother these days, as everything seems to have got stricter.

The permanent residence processing staff at Immigration must be very pissed off with the backlog situation as it makes their job seem pointless. I recently had to visit the ones who deal with existing PRs to get something sorted out with my alien book that took quite a lot of time and effort to get sorted and I have to say they were extremely helpful. Their new office space seems more business like with the cubicles where one officer focuses on one customer at a time. I never liked the old open plan office at Suan Plu because it was like you were being questioned by all of them at the same time and they were all distracted and not focusing on their own work.

[tombkk]

First letter of ID card number, free translation

1 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand after 31 May 2527

2 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand but reported late (after the 15 days period expired)

3 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) who have name in tabien baan born before 31 May 2527

4 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) but never had ID card before

5 is for Thai who was approved to miss census (didn't join census but puujai baan etc guarantee person is Thai...)

6 is for person who illegally or legally immigrated to Thailand but has residency not officially accepted by officer

7 is for children of 6

8 is for foregners who legally come to Thailand and are allowed to stay permanently and foreigners who get Thai Nationality

Thanks for this one. Do you have a link to the Thai original?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8966968/-13 but it's in Thai and you need to be a member to access

Thanks. Yes, it's in Thai but I read Thai, so there is no problem.

You don't need to be a member to access, but you need to be a member to download.

[tombkk]

I would like to know if legally a PR has to carry his passport and Alien's Book with him at all times. Since the passport doesn't carry a valid visa stamp, I would think he does.

When I got my alien book the police told me it had the force of an ID card and was supposed to be carried around at all times and that there was no longer any need to carry a passport. This seems logical as the origin of alien books was to control Chinese gangsters who would have had Chinese documents unreadable by Thai policemen, if they had any Chinese documents at all. Also it is issued by the police station where the alien lives and should therefore be reliable. The reality today is, however, that most Thais that need copies of your personal documents are not interested in your alien book. They usually want your passport and work permit. I had a polite row with a bank officer some years ago because she wanted to close down my bank account when I applied for a new savings book, because I didn't have a work permit at the time. She argued that an alien book, tabian baan and certificate of residence didn't count for anything without the magic little blue book. I refused to leave the bank until she had got some one from head office on the phone to explain to me the bank's curious policy not to allow permanent residents to bank with them without a work permit which meant that all PRs would have to do everything in cash, including share transactions etc after retirement. Eventually she got on the phone and was obviously roundly criticised by the person at head office and had to apologize to me for her stupidity. Basically you have to stand your ground in the face of this type of nonsense. If it comes from a government official you have the right to sue them in the Administrative Court. if all else fails.

The bank staff was not "stupid". It's the head office's fault: They don't train their staff properly.

So, blame the manager at head office who is in charge of staff development, or blame the board of directors for not having a staff development manager. But the poor girl only tried to do the best according to her training.

I beg to differ. The lady in question was not a "poor girl" but an experienced middle aged bank officer. The WP requirement was introduced as an anti-money laundering measure because it was thought too easy for foreigners on tourist visas up to no good to open bank accounts. The Bank of Thailand regulations introduced at the time made it clear that additional safeguards were required to open bank accounts for foreigners because they were not traceable through tabian baans etc but didn't specify what these should be. So asking for a WP was a band aid thought up by some banks to make foreigners traceable through their work and deny access to banking facilities to foreigners on transit and tourist visas who can just vaporize. On these criteria PRs with tabian baans are clearly on a higher level than foreigners on 1 year non B visas and a WP with what might be a flaky company that can powder or fire them and suddenly eliminate their right to stay. She also failed to use her brain and think through the issue of how PRs are expected to function in Thailand after retirement, if they are not allowed bank accounts, despite being granted life long visas by the Interior Minister in the expectation that they plan to spend the rest of their lives in Thailand. That thought (and I helped her through the thought process since she was having difficulties with it) should have been enough in itself to make a person of normal intelligence ask some one else before arbitrarily closing a bank account of a regular customer of many years standing who has a life long visa and a complete set of valid documents on hand, even if no WP.

I see, we disagree. I see she just tried to follow orders. "Use her brain and think through the issue" is not a valid argument if she is not properly trained to accept a PR instead of a WP.

Your sentiments do not matter. If she was instructed that a foreigner needs a WP to open an account, she should be commended for not deviating from the regulations. You still have to blame the head office for not training her correctly.

In my company, I would fire anybody who violates regulations just because a foreigner is insistant. If the regulations don't follow the law, blame me (i.e. head office) but don't blame the staff.

I understand you are not a business person dealing with staff over here.

[tombkk]

Just ran into another guy who waited two years for news after his PR application and finally got a call from Immigration to say they had discovered he had some directorships with Thai companies that didn't appear in his WP. He didn't think it was necessary to have WPs for these because he is a non-exec director but of course the law says otherwise. In his case, these directorships were not disclosed anywhere in his application and Immigration discovered them for themselves. I don't know if they found out because directors' fees appeared in his tax receipts or whether they scoured lists of directors. Standard procedure at the moment seems to be to give the miscreant the chance to withdraw the application and apply again after fixing the problem. The alternative is to let the application stand and take your chances with the Labour Ministry which is likely to prosecute for violation of the Working of Aliens Act, resulting in a fine and/or imprisonment followed by possible deportation and blacklisting.

Be warned. They are looking for reasons to reject and they have obviously wised up to the fact that applicants are prone to score own goals by acting as non-exec directors or doing voluntary work without WPs because they don't understand this falls within the law's very broad definition of work. Personally I find the attitude of the Labour Ministry and Immigration on this issue reprehensible. Without a detailed knowledge of Thai labour law, it is not intuitive that a WP is needed for these cases. The Labour Ministry could prevent expats from unintentionally violating the law by ensuring that notices are printed on WP application forms warning that these types of "work" also need to be recorded on WPs. Sadly I think they enjoy this situation and the result is criminalization of many expats, especially senior expats with decision making power about investments in Thailand who are more likely to be in this position. Immigration could also post similar warnings, including on the guidelines for applications for PR, but they choose not to. I wonder how many others have been caught like this.

The gist of your posting doesn't seem correct. I have investments in two companies and am a non-exec director in those. I work for a third company as a full-time employee. I have declared everything in detail in the application, and the application has passed (I saw the score).

Your friend may have "forgotten" to declare his investment, and that's what got him into trouble. Of course they check the application, and why did he not declare his investment? They most probably resent his dishonesty. Yes, be warned: They do check the details in the application. I would expect that in any country. Don't try to hide anything.

If you don't work for a company you have invested in (i.e. don't sign any cheques or attend to emails or any business at hand or make decisions) and are only a passive investor, you do not need a work permit. If you work for that company (any email or signature on a cheque or other document is considered work), you do need a work permit. It doesn't matter whether you receive a salary, so (unfortunately) voluntary work is indeed work. That's the law, check it out.

They are not looking for reasons to reject, but they can expect an honest application.

With regards to your rant above, please name a country that accepts incomplete or dishonest applications for PR. You seem to have a lot of experience.

[Arkady]

I see, we disagree. I see she just tried to follow orders. "Use her brain and think through the issue" is not a valid argument if she is not properly trained to accept a PR instead of a WP.

Your sentiments do not matter. If she was instructed that a foreigner needs a WP to open an account, she should be commended for not deviating from the regulations. You still have to blame the head office for not training her correctly.

In my company, I would fire anybody who violates regulations just because a foreigner is insistant. If the regulations don't follow the law, blame me (i.e. head office) but don't blame the staff.

I understand you are not a business person dealing with staff over here.

You don't know how anything about my background. So please desist from making personal comments.

Also no one is in this thread, which is about permanent residence, is likely to be interested in your behaviour at work. I suggest you post your comments about your comany's hiring and firing policies in a forum about business management in Thailand.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Arkady

[tombkk]

And I suggest you direct your rants about bank employees who follow the company's instructions to dev>nul, for the same reason.

Enough said.

Edited February 15, 2010 by camerata
Unnecessary quote deleted.

[camerata]

And I suggest you both stop quibbling. Also, everyone, please don't quote entire posts, especially if it's the preceding one. This is a long topic and some new members read it all the way through. The nested quotes are a major distraction.

* * *

Since I applied for PR as a single guy, my original post lacks information about the documents required and procedures involved in applying with a Thai spouse. I'd like to get up-to-date information on that and add it to Post #1, if anyone has any to offer.

[WormFarmer]

Since I applied for PR as a single guy, my original post lacks information about the documents required and procedures involved in applying with a Thai spouse. I'd like to get up-to-date information on that and add it to Post #1, if anyone has any to offer.

I applied in December 2004 and got my PR in May 2006. I did NOT employ a lawyer I did all the forms and chasing up myself with very little problem. I am British, have a Thai wife and we have a daughter now 9 years old. I cannot remember if I specifically applied on the basis of having a Thai wife, but that's how it was treated and I only paid the lower fee (about Baht 97,000). Notwithstanding that I did have to produce all the documents relating to my company, including company tax returns etc. I still have on my computer the Contents page of the file I submitted with my application, this I have censored just to remove the company name and include a copy here. This shows all the documents I submitted which includes details of my wife and daughter as well as of my company. In addition I was subsequently asked to submit photographs of our home (apartment in Bangkok and house in Roi Et), me and my family at home, me at my office, photographs of the outside of the office showing company name etc. Unlike what is described in some posts I have read we were not visited at home and no-one came to check up on me at the office. All the other things like interviews and tests were the same as you described in your very good first post. We found the girls in Immigration (Suan Plu in those days) were great, extremely patient and helpful. Took my daughter along on one visit, she was four years old then, completely bi-lingual and was a wow - she got spoilt rotten by the girls there. Contents__censored_.doc

Edited February 17, 2010 by WormFarmer

[stbkk]

I applied in 2006, and as well as the above list also had to have a DNA test to prove that my son was actually my son.

[WormFarmer]

I applied in 2006, and as well as the above list also had to have a DNA test to prove that my son was actually my son.

Same application year so I wonder why I didn't have to do a DNA test. My daughter has both Thai and British birth certificates, both of which show me as the father and there was never any question raised as to her paternity.

[stbkk]

I applied in 2006, and as well as the above list also had to have a DNA test to prove that my son was actually my son.

Same application year so I wonder why I didn't have to do a DNA test. My daughter has both Thai and British birth certificates, both of which show me as the father and there was never any question raised as to her paternity.

I applied in 2006, still waiting for it to be granted.

My son also has both Thai and British birth certificates.

As I understand it the 2006 entry were the first for the DNA test. In fact, I was contacted many months after all of the rest of the paperwork was submitted and approved, and told to do the test within 7 days, or else!

All a little strange considering that you only have to be married to get the discount, not have children. Maybe I get extra points for being the father of a Thai citizen.

Fat lot of use its done me so far, 3 years and 2 months later (not that I'm counting).

[WormFarmer]

OOPS yes - my application year was 2004, the PR was granted in 2006. I hope you get yours soon.

Edited February 18, 2010 by WormFarmer

[camerata]

As I understand it the 2006 entry were the first for the DNA test. In fact, I was contacted many months after all of the rest of the paperwork was submitted and approved, and told to do the test within 7 days, or else!

All a little strange considering that you only have to be married to get the discount, not have children. Maybe I get extra points for being the father of a Thai citizen.

From what I recall, members starting mentioning the DNA test around 2006. Also, I recall reading somewhere that you got the half-price PR for having a relationship with a Thai citizen - normally a wife, not not necessarily. Perhaps you can get it if you are divorced but caring for your own biological Thai child. That might be a reason to require DNA tests. But it could just be a case of them wanting more paperwork for its own sake. I wonder what happens if it turns out the child isn't yours but you are still willing to support it? Or if the child is known to be your wife's from a former marriage. I don't see why this should affect your PR status or fee as long as you are married to a Thai.

Anyway, thanks for the info, guys.

[Mario2008]

Residence certificate (TM. 16)

* For shared investment or special investment: 191,400.- Baht

* For employment or expert: 191,400.- Baht

* For foreigner married to Thai national: 95,700.- Baht

* For foreign head of family taking care of children of Thai nationality: 95,700.- Baht

* For spouse of foreign resident in the Kingdom: 95,700.- Baht

* For children of foreign resident in the Kingdom or of Thai nationals:

o Underage: 95,700.- Baht

o Adult: 191,400.- Baht

* For non-quota immigrants (original resident): 95,700.- Baht

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=fee

[MikeyIdea]

* For foreign head of family taking care of children of Thai nationality: 95,700.- Baht

My case is that I am the legitimate father but will not legally register the marriage to the mother and I specifcally asked immigration what my fee would be. The officer there answered that if you're not legally married, then it's 191,400 regardless of if you have a legal child or not.

[Mario2008]

I doubt there are many people applying under that rule, so he might not have been familiar with the rules regarding this. But it is also a question of how to interpret "foreign head of family". You might need to have sole custody. Indeed they don't use the word parent. You could have a look at the Thai version if that says parent or head of family.

ใบสำคัญถิ่นที่อยู่ (ตม.16)

•กรณีเพื่อการลงทุนรวมทั้งการลงทุนเป็นกรณีพิเศษ ฉบับละ 191,400 บาท

•กรณีเพื่อการทำงานหรือเป็นผู้เชี่ยวชาญ ฉบับละ 191,400 บาท

•กรณีสมรสกับบุคคลซึ่งมีสัญชาติไทย ฉบับละ 95,700 บาท

•กรณีเป็นหัวหน้าครอบครัวเพื่อให้การอุปการะบุตรผู้มีสัญชาติไทย ฉบับละ 95,700 บาท

•กรณีเป็นคู่สมรสของผู้มีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรแล้ว ฉบับละ 95,700 บาท

•กรณีเป็นบุตรของผู้มีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรแล้วหรือเป็นบุตรของบุคคลผู้มีสัญชาติไทย

◦ยังไม่บรรลุนิติภาวะ ฉบับละ 95,700 บาท

◦บรรลุนิติภาวะแล้ว ฉบับละ 191,400 บาท

•กรณีขอมีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรตามเดิม(นอกโควต้า) ฉบับละ 95,700.- บาท

[MikeyIdea]

Thai version says head of family too not parent. The interpretation I think should be: Not legally married = not head of family and it's the higher price. The officer I asked was one of the older ones and I got the impression that she knew

[sunny747]

My boss wants me to work for her company permanently. But she is tired of renewing my visa and work permit every year. It's not really a large company but she is a millionaire. she is looking for a easy process and thought it would be better if i have a PR.......but i left under graduate without finishing and i don't have condo or house of my own in thailand.

i'm 31 and i have been living in thailand for last 12 years. Working for this company for last 3 years. i have WP and business visa.

can i apply for PR?

thanks for any inputs.

Edited February 25, 2010 by sunny747