Gaza school strike 'criminal' - UN

[dexterm]

Talk about mission creep...

...on 12 June we had Operation Brothers Keeper smashing up Palestinian homes and arresting Hamas affiliates ostensibly looking for the kidnapped 3 Israeli teens even though they knew they were already dead at the hands of 2 psychopaths belonging to a rogue Hebron clan

...then 8 July having provoked the desired retaliation from Hamas, we get Operation Protective Edge with the Mantra Stop the Rockets

..then when IDF suffered unexpectedly high casualties from Hamas's guerrilla tactics, the mission objective changed to Destroy the Tunnels

...and now..it would be a joke if it were not so tragic... after 1400 civilians killed including 450 innocent children and 67 young Israelis sacrificed by Netanyahu...we have this new objective ..

'Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in broadcast remarks at the weekly meeting of his cabinet in Tel Aviv: "The operation will continue until its objective - the restoration of quiet over a protracted period - is achieved.'

..which is exactly what we had before 12 June when a mere 5 rockets fell harmlessly in the previous 6 weeks!!

All to win himself more votes at the next election, because that is all he has achieved for the now global pariah state of Israel.

Edited August 10, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

..which is exactly what we had before 12 June when a mere 5 rockets fell harmlessly in the previous 6 weeks!!

A "mere" 5 rockets that were meant to kill as many civilians as possible and all the ones before and after that. That nonsense is fooling no one - no matter how may times that you keep posting it.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Kalebiran]

Israel arrests protestors against the attacks on gaza.So much for being a democracy.http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2014839155862548

Edited August 10, 2014 by Kalebiran

[uptheos]

Israel arrests protestors against the attacks on gaza.So much for being a democracy.http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2014839155862548

An Iranian avatar quoting al jazeera..........you couldn't make it up.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel arrests protestors against the attacks on gaza.So much for being a democracy.http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2839155862548

An Iranian avatar quoting al jazeera..........you couldn't make it up.

Sometimes I have to wonder if some of the posts criticizing Israel are written by Israeli's with a good sense of humor - to make the Hamas supporters look bad. However, I am pretty sure that the posters actually believe whatever it is that they are ranting about.

[Ulysses G.]

Only time Israelis have humour is when they are murdering civilians everyday. epitomy of sick jew jokes

I wish that I knew how to do a screenshot of this - for all the anti-Semitic post deniers.

[Jingthing]

An interesting Palestinian perspective on who is actually responsible for the deaths of civilians in Gaza. Hint: it starts with an H and it is NOT Hebrew!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1qpaWTu0eU

[Ulysses G.]

Brilliant video. Some honesty for a change!

[Steely Dan]

An interesting Palestinian perspective on who is actually responsible for the deaths of civilians in Gaza. Hint: it starts with an H and it is NOT Hebrew!

There is indeed some signs of progress from the Arab world, today Egypt disbanded the Muslim Brotherhood, which in effect means Hamas have now been orphaned.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Jingthing]

Clear thinking from the quite possible next president of the United States, Hillary Clinton:

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Hillary-Clinton-Hamas-responsible-for-civilian-deaths-in-Gaza-370637

"I don’t know a nation, no matter what its values are—and I think that democratic nations have demonstrably better values in a conflict position—that hasn’t made errors, but ultimately the responsibility rests with Hamas.

She added: “It’s impossible to know what happens in the fog of war. Some reports say, maybe it wasn't the exact UN school that was bombed, but it was the annex to the school next door where they were firing the rockets. And I do think oftentimes that the anguish you are privy to because of the coverage, and the women and the children and all the rest of that, makes it very difficult to sort through to get to the truth.”

Clinton pointed out the inordinate amount of criticism against Israel as compared to other international actors currently embroiled in conflicts, saying that "you can’t ever discount anti-Semitism" as a factor in such scrutiny.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[rsokolowski]

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

This is the first time in human history that a population allegedly subject to genocide has a population that is increasing rather dramatically.

The Palestinian population has quintupled since Israel came into existence and has doubled since 1990, but Israel is being accused of genocide.

[rsokolowski]

As said to you earlier; why don't the Israeli government take the moral high ground and say that while the rocket attacks my continue, they will hold to a ceasefire and stop the bombing?

What country on earth would call a ceasefire and allow the enemy to keep shooting thousands of rockets at them? That is just plain stupid.

A country that actually wants peace.

Someone has to take the first step; if all they want is peace, why won't Israel?

And maybe if Israel would only let itself be taken over by Hamas and Hezbollah there would be peace? Sounds almost as reasonable as letting someone continue to shoot missiles at your country while you "negotiate" with them.

[metisdead]

Off topic nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[Johpa]

It is an artificial nation just like South Africa was once a Boer Afrikaner apartheid country.

Outside of Western Europe I find it rather rare to find many nations that are not artificial. The Americas, relatively recently conquered territories, are comprised of rather artificial entities. Russia, east of the Urals, is one large expanse of artificiality as is most of Central Asia with, for pure artifice, a special lament to Sogdia. Southeast Asia nations seem to be less artificial until you read Achaan Thongchai's opus Siam Mapped and realize just how artificial the current nation-state is to traditional Southeast Asian concepts of national identity. So lamenting that either Israel or Palestine are artifices of modern politics, which of course they both are, gets us nowhere in resolving the current conundrum and conflicts.

[Donnie Brasco]

That "concentration camp" was the responsibility of Hamas and those that elected them. There were few restrictions in 2006, but Hamas spent many years and millions of dollars of "aid" money turning Gaza into a massive, terrorist military base, bursting with weapons, to make never ending war on Israel.

Apologists for Hamas attribute the bloodlust to the Israeli occupation and blockade. Occupation? Does no one remember anything? It was less than 10 years ago that worldwide television showed the Israeli army pulling diehard settlers off synagogue roofs in Gaza as Israel uprooted its settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians. There was not a soldier, not a settler, not a single Israeli left in Gaza.

And there was no blockade. On the contrary. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed.

http://www.tauntongazette.com/article/20140718/Opinion/140716345

Blaming the victims of this ethnic cleansing slaughter is par for the course with this Hasbara crowd.

The usual suspects show up to bloviate their pro kill-fest talking-points spew.

Enough.

Really mods, this site has been co- opted by a trio of Hasbara knee-jerkers.

Have a look at Michael Rivero's site (Google Michael Rivero's name)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CBR250]

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

This is the first time in human history that a population allegedly subject to genocide has a population that is increasing rather dramatically.

The Palestinian population has quintupled since Israel came into existence and has doubled since 1990, but Israel is being accused of genocide.

Yes, the population of Palestinians is increasing. And the tactic of demographic flooding (similar to what the Han Chinese have done in parts of China) will ensure that Israel faces increasing troubles far into the future. As Peter Grigorenko, a little known but influential political theorist once said: "It is the duty of every revolutionary to have 12 children". Demographics trumps history.

The deliberate failure by Israel to make peace when things were far easier back in the 1990s has created a more difficult situation to now resolve. Imagine if Rabin and Arafat had been encouraged to keep moving forward towards peace. Today Israel would be a far richer and happier state. Sure, they wouldn't own as much land, and a few extreme Zionists would be gnashing their teeth, but the vast majority of Israelis would raise their children without any sense of threat.

And it may be that the failure to build toward peace today by Israel will lead to even more difficulties in any future attempts. I suspect so, because of the generational hatred engendered by this latest assault on Gaza. Israel will "win" the war, but is by far the biggest loser if peace is an aim. (Well, it isn't an aim for Netanyahu, Lieberamn and many Israelis - stealing more land is the aim. But for others, peace is their dream).

[CBR250]

And maybe if Israel would only let itself be taken over by Hamas and Hezbollah there would be peace? Sounds almost as reasonable as letting someone continue to shoot missiles at your country while you "negotiate" with them.

Let's turn this around and see if it helps you to understand the situation. I suspect not, but one can only try.

"And maybe if Israel Gaza would only let itself be taken over by Hamas Netanyahu and Hezbollah Avigdor Lieberman there would be peace? Sounds almost as reasonable as letting someone continue to shoot missiles heavy artillery, drone missiles, F16 rockets at your country while you "negotiate" with them".

Edited August 11, 2014 by CBR250

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas have been targeting the Kerem Shalom crossing with rockets - the entry point for food aid and humanitarian supplies for Gazans. It is also the exit point for Palestinians with foreign passports and for humanitarian cases. How low will these terrorists sink?

http://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/israeli-humanitarian-aid-continues-10-jul-2014.aspx

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Credo]

From what I have read, if they are targeting the crossing, it should be reasonably safe, since they don't seem to hit anything of importance. How do you know they are targeting the crossing?

[Ulysses G.]

The deliberate failure by Israel to make peace when things were far easier back in the 1990s has created a more difficult situation to now resolve.

You mean when Barak offered Arafat a Palestinian state in 73 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip as well as custodianship over the Temple Mount, sovereignty on all Islamic and Christian holy sites, and 75% of Jerusalem's Old Quarters - an unprecedented offer? Arafat rejected Barak's offer and refused to make a counter-offer of any type.

It was not Israel who deliberately refused to make peace.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

From what I have read, if they are targeting the crossing, it should be reasonably safe, since they don't seem to hit anything of importance. How do you know they are targeting the crossing?

You are talking about long range shots into Israel which is protected by Iron Dome. There have been a number of hits in the Kerem Shalom crossing area. It is obvious what Hamas are aiming at.

Hamas rockets slammed into the Kerem Shalom Crossing early Sunday morning, forcing Israel to shut down its massive shipments of humanitarian aid supplies to Gaza residents. Though Hamas functions as the Palestinian government in Gaza, its own military strategy appears to involve denying vital aid to ordinary Palestinians living there.

Sunday’s shelling marked at least the third time during the conflict, which Israel refers to as “Operation Protective Edge,” that Hamas rocket attacks forced Israeli humanitarian aid workers to take cover and cancel shipments of much-needed supplies, including food, medicine, water, and fuel.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1404175/hamas-rockets-strike-humanitarian-border-crossing-forcing-cutoff-of-aid-to-gaza/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7TY0dmHMLU

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[beechguy]

The deliberate failure by Israel to make peace when things were far easier back in the 1990s has created a more difficult situation to now resolve.

You mean when Barak offered Arafat a Palestinian state in 73 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip as well as custodianship over the Temple Mount, sovereignty on all Islamic and Christian holy sites, and 75% of Jerusalem's Old Quarters - an unprecedented offer? Arafat rejected Barak's offer and refused to make a counter-offer of any type.

It was not Israel who deliberately refused to make peace.

UG, I still feel sorry for the individual Palestinian, but they have been blessed with idiots for leadership for a long time. People don't seem to understand why some of us are pro Israel in these events, but I haven't seen anything to change my mind since the 60's or 70's. There may have been some, but I don't recall Israeli suicide bombers blowing up bus's and restaurants, murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, etc. and the only reason that stopped, is the Israeli's stopped it.

As to the land, if I remember correctly in 1973, the Israeli's were on the outskirts of Damascus, and not terribly far from Cairo, I think the only reason they stopped is the Soviet's threatened to get more directly involved. Who knows, if they hadn't, may be would be referring to Cairo and Damascus as Jewish settlements! haha

[dexterm]

The deliberate failure by Israel to make peace when things were far easier back in the 1990s has created a more difficult situation to now resolve.

You mean when Barak offered Arafat a Palestinian state in 73 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip as well as custodianship over the Temple Mount, sovereignty on all Islamic and Christian holy sites, and 75% of Jerusalem's Old Quarters - an unprecedented offer? Arafat rejected Barak's offer and refused to make a counter-offer of any type.

It was not Israel who deliberately refused to make peace.

I find it tragic that Bill Clinton did not stay longer at Camp David to cajole and bang heads together for a few days more.

Both Barak and Arafat were afraid they had made too many concessions, and both did a runner at one point.

I viewed a fascinating PBS? Panorama? documentary (can't find it) on events at the summit. May be a link here somewhere http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oslo/negotiations/

They had come within 97% land deal of a return to 67 borders, just needed 3% more land swaps. They had actually sorted out a deal over East Jerusalem and Temple Mount. I do applaud Barak's formula there... something like Jews got the Wall and x yards underground Palestinians got the top?

Then in Sept 2000 Ariel Sharon took his infamous stroll on Temple Mount with 1,000 bodyguards (not that he was expecting any trouble...ho ho ho) that provoked the 2nd Intifada http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3677206.stm

won the next election on a platform of Israel needs security before a peace agreement...a bit like Netanyahu now. The rest is a history of increasingly right wing short sighted Israeli governments.

We could have had a peace agreement 14 years ago, which would bring untold wealth and prosperity to Israel and Palestine. Instead we have the present carnage... a tragedy caused by the incompetence of politicians worldwide.

Edited August 11, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

We could have had a peace agreement 14 years ago, which would bring untold wealth and prosperity to Israel and Palestine.

Indeed. Only Arafat rejected Barak's offer at the Camp David Summit and refused to make a counter-offer at all. You can't make peace when one side refuses to negotiate.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[CBR250]

Probably the closest we ever got to an ending of the conflict was in Annapolis in 2008. Strangely, this occurred under the uninspiring President George Dubbya. While Wikipedia claims that the agreement was derailed by opposition from Jewish and Muslim fanatics, the BBC claims that:

"The talks came to an abrupt halt with Israel's military offensive in Gaza in December 2008. This coincided roughly with the end of Mr Olmert's time in office and his replacement by Benjamin Netanyahu...."

So, the use of Gaza is once again occurring today to keep the Zionist plan for Eretz Israel alive. (For those who don't know, Eretz Israel is the ancient biblical Jewish land - it of course includes all of Palestine).

[dexterm]

..which is exactly what we had before 12 June when a mere 5 rockets fell harmlessly in the previous 6 weeks!!

A "mere" 5 rockets that were meant to kill as many civilians as possible and all the ones before and after that. That nonsense is fooling no one - no matter how may times that you keep posting it.

You conveniently omit the provocative 5 targeted assassinations conducted by Israel during that same 6 week period. The Hamas response was in fact restrained.

Some basic math for you..

67 young Israeli lives/5 rockets that fell harmlessly which equals roughly 13 young Israeli lives sacrificed per rocket..unlucky for some!

And if Netanyahu had used that lull to negotiate an indefinite truce as Hamas have frequently offered..

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3537078,00.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24235665/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/hamas-offers-truce-return-borders/#.U-g1G_mSweM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

Those 67 young Israelis who have died in vain, would be alive today.

Shalom.

[dexterm]

We could have had a peace agreement 14 years ago, which would bring untold wealth and prosperity to Israel and Palestine.

Indeed. Only Arafat rejected Barak's offer at the Camp David Summit and refused to make a counter-offer at all. You can't make peace when one side refuses to negotiate.

Muddying the waters again, UG.

Clinton asked for Arafat's map, he pulled out the 1967 borders for negotiation, Barak offered 97% of that including some land swaps. If only Clinton had stayed longer and got that up a few acres more (even bits of the Negev) to 100% it would have been a face saving for both done deal, with Barak keeping the major settlements and Arafat got a compromise over 67 borders

A similar tragedy has unfolded with John Kerry's latest hard work.

Long but very even handed and well worth reading..reads like a thriller.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118751/how-israel-palestine-peace-deal-died

[CBR250]

..which is exactly what we had before 12 June when a mere 5 rockets fell harmlessly in the previous 6 weeks!!

A "mere" 5 rockets that were meant to kill as many civilians as possible and all the ones before and after that. That nonsense is fooling no one - no matter how may times that you keep posting it.

You conveniently omit the provocative 5 targeted assassinations conducted by Israel during that same 6 week period. The Hamas response was in fact restrained.

Some basic math for you..

67 young Israeli lives/5 rockets that fell harmlessly which equals roughly 13 young Israeli lives sacrificed per rocket..unlucky for some!

And if Netanyahu had used that lull to negotiate an indefinite truce as Hamas have frequently offered..

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3537078,00.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24235665/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/hamas-offers-truce-return-borders/#.U-g1G_mSweM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

Those 67 young Israelis who have died in vain, would be alive today.

Shalom.

Dexterm - I do appreciate your ability to stick to facts and argument, and to maintain your focus despite the petty jibes and other diversions. Perhaps more importantly, I appreciate the links you provide that are helping me further understand the dynamics of this 'criminal' conflict. I hope impartial readers of this thread also investigate some of the background research you have done.

[carmine]

Well said CBR, yet sadly the majority of the pro Israel response" lot on here either ignore the difficult questions or seem to believe they are not only entitled to their own opinions but also entitled to their own facts.

Its so easy for them to avoid a tough question with a belittling reply when the actual truth is they would stick backing Isral even if the civilian death toll hit 20000 or more. In short, sense, restraint has gone out the window.