Having recently returned to Australia, after a holiday in Thailand, was feeling somewhat ill after a few days. Fever, body shakes and just feeling really sick. Nothing like what I've experienced before. I could see a hospital on the horizon. I visited my doctor, with a packed suit case in my car, and he promptly said, you need to go to the hospital, which I did in Melbourne.

Within 2 hours I was in Intensive Care in an isolation room, on oxygen, my heart beating erratically, and an IV drip of antibiotics. After 4 days in ICU, my condition improved, and I was moved to another isolated room. I received a phone call from the Health Dept advising me that I had Legionnaires Disease and Pneumonia on one lung. Their timeline was June 20 to 22,which I pinpointed to a hotel I stayed at in Pattaya. They would advise Thailand Health Dept for them to investigate.

After 4 weeks off work, have finally returned, still coughing, which will go in several months once the Pneumonia clears. What made my condition worse was having a low immune system because of my Rheumatoid Arthritis that I've had several years. Doctors have told me that I was very lucky to survive the episode.

The Nation, last month had an article about Legionnaires Disease outbreaks in Bangkok, and that inspections were randomly taking place. Those hotels and shopping centres that were clean, were being given a Green Air Health certificate.

What causes Legionnaires Disease? Contaminated water cooling in airconditioning units usually in hotels, cinemas and shopping centres. Can happen in Australia as well, but is rife in Thailand because of laxed regulation in ensuring that they are regularly cleaned and serviced. It can affect anyone, but particularly young and old and anyone with a compromised immune system. But can be a killer, so be aware of its existence. It is around.

I'm looking at retirement in Chiang Mai next year, have the funds, and even with this experience won't change my mind. I've visited Thailand about 15 times since 1987, and have decided to take the plunge. LOS.

Sorry to hear you had that experience and I agree with your observations.  Although it's a minor risk, it wouldn't feel that way if you actually contract it.   May I ask what age you are at the moment?  Are you 49 going on 50? or older - 

 

Also, good luck with your recovery - I know from bitter experience that these types of things can take a long time to get out of your system.  

I'm 55 years old, but lean and reasonably fit, except for my Rheumatoid Arthritis, but my meds keep that in check. Just bad luck on my behalf, but I thought I'd make some awareness that it is around and serious. It's not a doctor's cure with some pills, but hospitalisation. My irregular heart beat is still receiving treatment.

Yeah you can get nasty things from these Ladymen in Pattaya

 

No Legionnaires come often from hot water which is not hot enough and dirty aircons.

This is not only restricted to LOS.....many years ago I had the same happen to me in the US....went to one Dr that told me pneumonia and gave some meds.......a few days later I was basically carried into another Dr. who got it right...many weeks later I was back in to see him and he excitedly showed me my blood test - ??????? I asked him what he was showing me and why....his reply "you were less than 8 hours from the grave, you were so sick your body could not make any white blood cells - we stole you from the grave"

 

Hale and healthy in my 40's at the time....came from the AC in a meeting room in the San Jose area.....I'd had pneumonia once before which made me more succeptible to it.....now if I am anywhere and someone has a loose cough or watery sneeze I am long gone from them - as I understand it a sneeze travels at over 200 mph and atomizes a room very quickly.....

 

Glad you made it through - I've been there and it's not fun....even if I didn't know at the time how perilously close I'd come to my demise......

Yeh, thanks for your feedback. Can be mighty serious. The hospital also told me how close I was to heaven also. Until you've experienced it you will never know.

A nonsense trolling post has been removed, this is not the place for this type of nonsense.

owenm, glad to read your post and that you pulled through.

 

My understanding is that the disease is caused by inhalation of small water droplets containing the bacteria. I was warned by some environmental officers/engineers from some cruise line companies to be wary also of indoor fountains. Unfortunately control and regulation is very lax. It will likely take a large scale outbreak before there is any crackdown and enforcement.

 

Sorry again to hear your tale of woe.

Excellent info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionella

I was directly involved in two of the famous outbreaks in the U.K. The Stafford Hospital and the BBC. Since I was involved in the manufacture and installation of over 1,000 car washes and water recycling plants through out Europe and the rest of the world I had a lot of finger pointing at recycled water as a source of legionella outbreaks. In fact this is not the case as I discovered after contacting the Germ Warfare Establishment at Porton Down. The main facts are that the water must be atomised below a 5 micron droplet size (you cannot see below 25 micron). Car washes, fountains and the like produce large droplets that cannot enter the base of the lungs where infection can occur.

 

The second fact is that if you are, or were, a smoker you will have damaged the bodies natural defence against infection, that is the scilia(small hairs in you lungs that sweep contaminents out of your lungs. In the case of the Staffordshire Hospital the Staffs Health Authority were blaming our bus wash opposite, however with my advice from Porton Down they traced it tothe Airconditioning system. The cause being a dirty blow down pipe trap which allowed contaminated water to be introduced into the humdifiers. The air humidifiers of course atomise the water below 5 micron which you cannot see, and the legionella bacteria if present will enter the up lungs of personnel. However, if you are over 50 and a smoker you run a risk of contracting the disease as you will have damaged you natural defences.

 

Again, with the BBC outbreak, they were blaming their vehicle wash and water recycling system, as one of their drivers contracted the disease. However after talking to them they found that the problem was with their cooling towers on the roof of BBC house.

Good that you made it.

 

I regularly visit Bkk and every time that I am there I get some type of infection.  I am convinced it is because the ACs are not maintained in the hotels and shopping centers.  It is a sure sign when you walk into a room and it smells a bit moldy.

Aircon really needs to be sanitized regularly.  and there's a good reason so many Thai's wear face masks when out and about - especially in aircon'd public transport like skytrain.

 

Good luck with your full recovery and also with your retirement to CM.  Maybe it'll be cool enough for you to not need aircon -- but I do  wonder about the air quality there.....  ;)

Flaming post deleted..

Stay on topic or stay out..

I'm 55 years old, but lean and reasonably fit, except for my Rheumatoid Arthritis, but my meds keep that in check. Just bad luck on my behalf, but I thought I'd make some awareness that it is around and serious. It's not a doctor's cure with some pills, but hospitalisation. My irregular heart beat is still receiving treatment.

 

 

irregular heart beat

 

look into the benefits of magnesium,potassium and fish oil

Good that you made it.

 

I regularly visit Bkk and every time that I am there I get some type of infection.  I am convinced it is because the ACs are not maintained in the hotels and shopping centers.  It is a sure sign when you walk into a room and it smells a bit moldy.

 

Happened to me almost every Bkk visit, too. One reason could be the bus aircons, which most likely are never cleaned or adequately cleaned. Many passengers are coughing or have sore throats after a long bus ride.

 

The real culprits are the hotel aircons. I always take a small container of chlorine (heiter) plus one of washing detergent to use to soak the air filter in the sink for 20 minutes when I first arrive, while then taking a shower. To see why, open the front of most any aircon to view a technicolor array of matted gunge. Bring plastic gloves...it's not a pretty sight. 

 

 

 

I'm 55 years old, but lean and reasonably fit, except for my Rheumatoid Arthritis, but my meds keep that in check. Just bad luck on my behalf, but I thought I'd make some awareness that it is around and serious. It's not a doctor's cure with some pills, but hospitalisation. My irregular heart beat is still receiving treatment.

 

 

irregular heart beat

 

look into the benefits of magnesium,potassium and fish oil

 

 

^ agree.

BTW, what meds do you use to keep your Rheumatoid Arthritis in check? Might be helpful for the rest of us to know. Cheers...
 

Aircon really needs to be sanitized regularly.  and there's a good reason so many Thai's wear face masks when out and about - especially in aircon'd public transport like skytrain.

 

Good luck with your full recovery and also with your retirement to CM.  Maybe it'll be cool enough for you to not need aircon -- but I do  wonder about the air quality there..... 

 

Are those face masks effective?

 

I live upcountry without aircon and frequently after trips to Bangkok I get a sore throat and cough. Do the masks actually work. FX. with 5 micron water droplets containing legionella?

Name of the hotel you stayed at?

Also very risky are the fans that blow out a mist of tiny water drops commonly used in Thailand on terraces and in hotels as well.

 

Sprinkler systems in glass houses, Whirlpool spas or watering systems like in Nong Nooch Garden in Pattaya could have caused this as well. The bacteria which is the culprit is called Legionella pneumophila.

 

We had a legionnaires outbreak in the Netherlands once, during the 90's at a Flower Expo where they had that same type of system installed but had not cleaned the pipes properly, many had died (approx. 20 people) and the Flower Expo was closed immediately.

 

See also:

 

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/8/1/01-0176_article

 

You may call yourself very very lucky!!

Many hotels and offices/public places have never seen bleach... (it's a start)

 

 

a couple of years ago, a hotel room that I stayed in Thailand gave me a bad cough that I couldn't get rid of for at least 3 or 4 days.  I believe it was due to the air con unit in the room which probably had a really bad and dirty filter.

I think it probably unfair to single out a single hotel I stayed at as the cause, because I visited a brand new shopping centre on Beach Rd several times as well as the older shopping centres, any of which could be the culprit. With my RA I'm on some heavy drugs. Methotrexate, Plaquenil, Arava, and self injection of Humira every fortnight. As well as red krill oil, glucosamine and magnesium. A lot of stuff, which gives me a normal life style, believe it or not. I can walk around for 5-10km a day, no issues with the hot Thai climate, but put me back in Melbourne during winter and certainly not the same. So my immune system is basically stuffed, and I'm sure I could remove half my drugs living in Thailand. Has anyone who has had chronic rheumatoid arthritis, and moved to Thailand to retire as an Expat, got any personal experience as to whether their RA has improved with the warmer climate of Thailand? I'd appreciate any feedback on RA in LOS. Thanks. BTW someone in an earlier feed wanted to know what meds I was on.

Unfortunately anyone can contract Leg.Disease anywhere in the world. I was in Rapid City, South Dakota nearly twenty years ago, when they had had an outbreak there numbering in the hundreds. Quite a number of people succumbed and died. However, they had one HELL of time finding the source. After a considerable amount of time, it was eventually found that the source was a contaminated fountain of recirculating water, in a courtyard/foyer just inside the entrance to a popular restaurant, ( don't recall the name of it right now ). Anyway, the health dept. there had them shut the fountain down completely and bleach and disinfect the whole thing, and had them leave it dry and shut down. No more cases of Legionaires after that!  However, even tho the restaurant was made completely safe after they figured out the problem, business fell off so much they had to close down, and the property was eventually bulldozed. I'm not sure just what's on that spot now?

Yes, this is obviously pretty serious.  I hate to keep bringing up pollution and CM, but I wonder if this can harm your immune system.  I know it can cause serious allergies, and I wonder if that can allow Legionnaires to be acquired more easily.  I am glad you brought his disease to our attention.  

I'm aware that Legionnaires can develop anywhere and that's why I felt it unfair to single out a hotel I stayed at, when it may not have been the cause. The health department in Australia was made aware where I stayed, and would notify Thai officials to check it out. CM air quality I thought would be reasonably ok if I considered retirement here. It's certainly not BKK, and I'm sure Melbourne, London, KL, LA wouldn't have air as clean as CM. Allergies aren't an issue for me, but picking up infections are, with my low immune response.

 

Aircon really needs to be sanitized regularly.  and there's a good reason so many Thai's wear face masks when out and about - especially in aircon'd public transport like skytrain.

 

Good luck with your full recovery and also with your retirement to CM.  Maybe it'll be cool enough for you to not need aircon -- but I do  wonder about the air quality there..... 

 

Are those face masks effective?

 

I live upcountry without aircon and frequently after trips to Bangkok I get a sore throat and cough. Do the masks actually work. FX. with 5 micron water droplets containing legionella?

 

 

As effective as anything when used right, I suppose.......

I was in Japan back in March for the first time. Many locals wore the disposable paper masks. I initially presumed they were trying to ward off getting an infection or cold. But then a local told me, no if they have a cold or infection themselves that they don't want to spread, they'll wear the mask.. Not for prevention of infection. But thinking about it, it should work both ways.

The only oils you should be consuming are organic cold pressed oils that are kept in the refrigerator aka flaxseed oil.

 

Best to steer clear of all stir fries especially in Thailand.

 

If you really have to have a stir fry organic virgin coconut oil is probably the gold standard and only used once and then tossed away.

I'm aware that Legionnaires can develop anywhere and that's why I felt it unfair to single out a hotel I stayed at, when it may not have been the cause. The health department in Australia was made aware where I stayed, and would notify Thai officials to check it out. CM air quality I thought would be reasonably ok if I considered retirement here. It's certainly not BKK, and I'm sure Melbourne, London, KL, LA wouldn't have air as clean as CM. Allergies aren't an issue for me, but picking up infections are, with my low immune response.

 

CM faces serious problems of air pollution during the hot season. According to the year just a couple of weeks or several months. Plenty of treads about it in the CM section.

If it is of particular concern to you, you may look for portable air filters to get you trough that period. I purchased  a couple of them (Japanese brands) and they are convenient (automatic adjustment to air quality, air quality indicator, silent) and efficient.
 

was from mid-june until beginning of july 2014 the hole time in pattaya and when i returned after a few days here, i must go to the emercency room in my cityhospital and stay there for nearly 2 weeks in a isolated room.

i caught during my stay in pattaya e.coli ESBL, enterokokken-faecalis - and proteus-mirabilis.
and this little "bugs" was multiresistend against antibiotica of 1., 2. and 3. generation, there was only ertapenem who worked!

chock dee, buaahhhh.......