"Knee Defender" on flights, what do you think ?

[slipperx]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

If people only bought tickets on airlines with more legroom, they would do so. Clearly people go for the cheaper fares over leg room.

There are websites out there that compare leg room between airlines. You can choose the airline with more leg room if you like.

Not at all as simple as that. I travel frequently to Phuket from Bangkok. I need to be in Phuket early morning and leave after 6pm - normal workday. I prefer Nok Air as I live much nearer to Don Muang than Suwanhabumi soi either fly Air Asia which has appallingly bad leg room and pay an extra 1,000 baht for an exit row hot seat or travel with Nok the day before and pay for a hotel and travel back the following day - thus losing two half days. I could travel to Suwanhabumi but that is an extra 2 hours each way and the ticket prices are high, more than 10,000 baht for a return flight with Thai Smile.

It is not always as simple as using an airline with longer seat pitch. Airlines should be regulated with a minimum leg room requirement.

[jacko45k]

It seems a combination of restricting recline and having a particular legroom would resolve the problems.

Been there and done that, the guy in front may not be aware that I still have a drink or food still on my tray and reclining may upset them.

Fitting a 'knee defender' seems as selfish as indiscriminate reclining!

Some people need to grasp the concept of 'others' and good manners.

[bra]

The so called knee defender is not permitted on most airlines. If found a flight attendant will ask you to remove. If you don't you should be aware of your legal situation, and you can be charged with an offence for not complying with the direction of an air crew member on an aircraft. Or off loaded like happened in Chicago, or a less desirable place.

The same thing applies if you start an altercation with another passenger or one of the air crew. Common sense should apply and its not a good idea to start a fight in a confined space in the first place.

The seat can't be reclined before take off - it has to remain upright so that the passengers behind can make a rapid exit in the event of an evacuation. Once again a passenger who does this and does not comply with the direction of an air crew member to place the seat upright can be in a difficult legal situation.

Airlines sell space - and the cheaper the fares the less space you will get - airline economics 101. If you want more space then pay more on a different airline or premium economy, business or first. If I fly economy I never plan to use my laptop on the flight as it becomes impossible if the seat in front is reclined. If you have to use a laptop on the flight for business then fly business class - and charge the client accordingly.

[ravip]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

If people only bought tickets on airlines with more legroom, they would do so. Clearly people go for the cheaper fares over leg room.

There are websites out there that compare leg room between airlines. You can choose the airline with more leg room if you like.

Yes, I agree with you.

As a passenger, we all have the freedom to choose how we fly.

But on the other hand, shouldn't a passenger aircraft which is supposed to carry humans of all nationalities have a seat designed which could accommodate any person with the minimum adequate 'body' space?

Today, when you sit on some air-crafts economy seats, you almost poke your elbow on your neighbor's chest or face if you are not careful - and at meal times it can be super fun, if you have the correct neighbor!

Of course, we all have the option to fly First/Business class and avoid most of the flying discomforts.

[Emster23]

I think knee defender is a misnomer. Perhaps "space hog" would be more appropriate: User wants as much space for self, hang it if person ahead has to be uncomfortable. Blatant attempt to get more than what paid for, at your expense. Perhaps preflight instructions should include section on how to recline seats: start with taking most weight pressure off back of seat, informing person behind etc. I have yet to fly on airline where all seats are not checked for being upright before takeoff... or during meals.

[jmccarty]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

Not at all! But I would use the gadget if I could. I have enough issues with comfort at only 5'10" in most economy seats with the seats not reclined. Elbow room is non existent if you end up in a middle seat with people on both sides also. When someone then reclines their seat in front of you, you are trapped!

[Kerryd]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

If people only bought tickets on airlines with more legroom, they would do so. Clearly people go for the cheaper fares over leg room.

There are websites out there that compare leg room between airlines. You can choose the airline with more leg room if you like.

And quite often people also have the option of selecting their seat and a little advance planning can make for a much better trip. I used to always select the "emergency exit" row seats at the back of whichever plane I was going to be on. Used to be just 2 seats in the row, more legroom, close to the toilets and galley (but bad for deplaning as you had to wait for everyone else to spend 30 minutes trying to repack their carry-on bag while you are trying to get off the plane).

The front rows (in economy) often have more leg room as well as they leave extra space in case someone needs one of those "baby bassinets". Plus those rows are usually the first (economy) passengers to disembark and there is usually a set of toilets in that section between economy and business class. Downside is (on some airlines) they may not have individual entertainment systems.

Window or aisle seat. I used to pick window. You could stuff the pillow between the seat and side of the plane and stretch your legs out (a bit) in the gap between the wall and the seat ahead of you. Downside - having to crawl over 1-2 strangers every time you need to go to the bathroom and being stuck waiting for them to repack all their worldly belongings upon landing.

Aisle seat - easier to get in/out, but you can't really stretch out unless you dangle your feet in the aisle (never a good idea). If the person trapped next to you needs to make repeated trips to the "loo", it's much easier to get in/out of the seat than to have them try to clamber over top of you.

Nowadays if I have to fly economy, I will try to pick an aisle seat in the second row nearest the front (left side because they always get on/off on the left side of the plane). I normally fly business class though. More expensive (obviously) but for the longer haul flights (to/from Europe/North America or just Dubai-Bangkok even) it is so much nicer.

Then again, I shop around and compare prices and do the little things like checking out the seating arrangements of whatever plane I'm scheduled to fly on. I used to fly (economy) on Thai and/or Emirates from Dubai to Bangkok. Then I found that I could fly business class on Gulf Air for just a couple hundred dollars more than economy on the other 2. It meant leaving Dubai earlier to take a short (business class) hop to Bahrain, then departing after a short layover and arriving in Bangkok at almost the same time as Thai/Emirates arrive. (So I could spend extra hours sitting in the Dubai terminal waiting for an 11 pm flight, or fly to Bahrain, stay in the business class lounge, then enjoy the business class flight.)

(Not to mention the whole process with flying business tends to be better, from check-in to immigration to the lounge. You usually board first, better meals, disembark first, special lanes at immigration, better frequent flyer rewards, etc.)

And how much do you want to bet that the people that use those "knee protectors" would have no concerns at all about reclining their own seats while preventing the people ahead of them from doing the same ? People who think screwing the passenger ahead of them is fine are no better than the passengers that don't care about the ones behind them. Too often people like to take the "easy" way out and then blame everyone else for their problems and discomfort.

[Gerard052]

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

Guys like you should travel in the cargo bay with the luggage, it is not because you paid for your seat that you have to think you own the plane. I had a guy in front of me one time who reclined his seat way back, I had absolutly no room left, I told the flight attendant but she didn't have the guts to do anything. If he wouldn't have been so big, he would have ended up with a sore back and a bloody nose. I too, paid for my seat and I respect the person behind me.

[Frank James]

Sounds a great idea.

I have no time for the ignorant people who within minutes of sitting down recline their seat and crush my knees.

I usually then do not bother with the meal as I cannot open the tray.

I do make sure that I push my knees into their back for the entire journey.

I have no time for inconsiderate people.

If I see someone sitting behind me I never recline my seat.

I do make sure that I push my knees into their back for the entire journey.

I guess that was you then sitting behind me on my last flight

On a more serious note, whenever I fly and I use always China airlines, the cabin staff do a good job avoiding people reclining their seat before the flight is well going, and also making sure they put upright there seat during meal servings.

By the way, how often do you take a flight where nobody is sitting behind you, and on an 11 hour flight you just sit upright for the entire flight ?

It has been a very long time since I flew on any flight of either short or long duration when it was not jam packed. And I am always cursed to sit behind someone who wants to drop their seat back before takeoff, and needs to be told personally by staff to raise their seat for meal service, or prior to landing. I remember flying back in the 80's on half empty flights in the US, where one could find an empty section of three or four seats wide, and sack out. I realize airlines cannot operate that way now, it's just a golden memory of bygone days.

Now let's all start in about sitting next to the morbidly obese, sitting next to a hairy man in shorts who wants to rub legs with you, rotten kids and parents who won't control them, people who bring vastly excessive and overweight items aboard to cram into the overhead bins (that one is the fault of the airlines, who won't enforce their own baggage rules),...have i missed anyone?

[JLCrab]

Yes -- I encountered an older couple each with two on board luggage pieces on a Tokyo to USA flight. They woman asked the gate agent if they could board early as she had a foot injury and I overheard. On board they plunked themselves down in an exit row and I also over heard them tell the purser that they were both in excellent physical condition. I notified the purser who removed the woman from the exit row.

[Bigfarang1948]

I try to choose seats where I have plenty of room, but if my knees go into the back of the person in front, I just suffer it and make sure they can feel my knees in their back.

Unless you're in an exit row seat in Economy class, or are a petite 100 pounds instead of the fat 300 I am, there is always a problem when the person in front reclines their seat. but they paid for a seat thet reclines, so I put up with the discomfort or fly Business Class when I can afford it

Until I can, I will try to be a happy fat sardine in a little can

[Ricardo]

It's less of a problem, when everyone reclines their seat, to try to get some sleep.

It's no problem, when nobody reclines their seat, for take-off/landing or to 'enjoy' an airline 'meal'.

The problem arises when the person in-front reclines but you can't/don't wish to yet.

My own stratagem is to breath heavily on the top of their head, especially if I've been travelling for 24-hours plus, or have recently eaten curry !

It might be petty, but I enjoy being petty, to someone who I feel is being inconsiderate !

[Aldebaran1981]

i will only recline far back if the d!ck in front of me does a full recline.

I have long legs and it'll be uncomfortable for me if the front passenger does a full recline.

normally i will tap the person's shoulder and they will move forwards abit.

[arkom]

I recline my seat on long haul when i feel like sleeping. Out of courtesy to the person behind, i will return to upright position during meal times.

If you are behind and can't tolerate that, i suggest you fly business class.

I also do the same, however before reclining I check to see who is sitting behind me. If the person is taller or about my height I still recline slightly so I feel comfortable, but hopefully not to much where my chair is hitting his knees the whole flight.

[Gandtee]

I find if someone in front of me is taking the mick I usually make it a point to grab hold of the seat from both sides every time I get up and also play knee tappy when I need to stretch my legs.

Little kids with little behinds, do silly things to please their minds.

[sanuk711]

A US flight had to be diverted last year after a fight broke out between two people over leg room, I was on an Easyjet flight that this

happened, thankfully the bloke calmed down and let the pilot have his seat back...........

[Gandtee]

I recline my seat on long haul when i feel like sleeping. Out of courtesy to the person behind, i will return to upright position during meal times.

If you are behind and can't tolerate that, i suggest you fly business class.

I also do the same, however before reclining I check to see who is sitting behind me. If the person is taller or about my height I still recline slightly so I feel comfortable, but hopefully not to much where my chair is hitting his knees the whole flight.

This is what is called consideration and politeness to your fellow man. Something which seems to be lacking nowadays, sadly.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Gandtee

[MILT]

The amount of hostility on such a ridiculous subject.

Humans in general (with some exceptions of course) but in general rarely give a squat about each other when it comes down to it really.

As some TV members comments clearly demonstrate.

People behave in all kinds of strange ways when socializing in public.

When it comes down to it, it's every man/women for themselves even when sitting on a airplane.

...............and that's says it all!

[MediaWatcher]

JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

What gives you the right to restrict their comfort...seems you have a problem. Airline should restrict the distance a seat can recline.

[MediaWatcher]

surangw, on 27 Aug 2014 - 22:38, said:

i have more of a problem when in economy seats with those fools behind me that can't rise out of their seats with out clutching the back of my seat.

Then either don't fly or pay for business class... by the way, it's not your seat, it's the airlines.

[MediaWatcher]

Lite Beer, on 27 Aug 2014 - 22:47, said:

roamer, on 27 Aug 2014 - 22:39, said:

Lite Beer, on 27 Aug 2014 - 22:29, said:

Sounds a great idea.

I have no time for the ignorant people who within minutes of sitting down recline their seat and crush my knees.

I usually then do not bother with the meal as I cannot open the tray.

I do make sure that I push my knees into their back for the entire journey.

I have no time for inconsiderate people.

If I see someone sitting behind me I never recline my seat.

And if the person in front has reclined their seat leaving you less room ? I often think there is a collapsing domino effect coming into play.

Makes no difference, my knees are still crushed and cannot open seat tray.

I find it astonishing that someone on a flight of less than an hour has to recline the seat even before taking off.

Selfish ignorant people.

Not sure who you fly with, but all airlines I have flown with insist seat are in an upright position for take off and landing.

[JesseFrank]

JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

What gives you the right to restrict their comfort...seems you have a problem. Airline should restrict the distance a seat can recline.

Not my problem isn't it ?

I'm not the airline, and I just use the comforts that are provided to me. e.g. reclining my seat to the extend that is provided.

I suggest you reread my post, because it is not me restricting anyones comfort.

Edited August 28, 2014 by JesseFrank

[MediaWatcher]

Ricardo, on 28 Aug 2014 - 11:10, said:

It's less of a problem, when everyone reclines their seat, to try to get some sleep.

It's no problem, when nobody reclines their seat, for take-off/landing or to 'enjoy' an airline 'meal'.

The problem arises when the person in-front reclines but you can't/don't wish to yet.

My own stratagem is to breath heavily on the top of their head, especially if I've been travelling for 24-hours plus, or have recently eaten curry !

It might be petty, but I enjoy being petty, to someone who I feel is being inconsiderate !

I fake a sneeze and/or a cough

[charmonman]

Perhaps airlines should have an announcement that emphasizes to their increasingly rude and ignorant passengers to try to be considerate of the other passengers comfort, by not kicking the back of the seat in front, by not suddenly reclining their own seat, by controlling their children, by not talking loudly while others are trying to sleep, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

[MediaWatcher]

JesseFrank, on 28 Aug 2014 - 12:20, said:

MediaWatcher, on 28 Aug 2014 - 12:05, said:

JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

What gives you the right to restrict their comfort...seems you have a problem. Airline should restrict the distance a seat can recline.

Not my problem isn't it ?

I'm not the airline, and I just use the comforts that are provided to me. e.g. reclining my seat to the extend that is provided.

I suggest you reread my post, because it is not me restricting anyones comfort.

By your actions, not the airlines, or anyone else, you infringe upon the person behind you. This is an action YOU take, without consideration for others, this is surely the definition of selfish.

[JesseFrank]

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

Guys like you should travel in the cargo bay with the luggage, it is not because you paid for your seat that you have to think you own the plane. I had a guy in front of me one time who reclined his seat way back, I had absolutly no room left, I told the flight attendant but she didn't have the guts to do anything. If he wouldn't have been so big, he would have ended up with a sore back and a bloody nose. I too, paid for my seat and I respect the person behind me.

I rather think it is you who should travel in cargo bay, since you don't seem to comprehend that someone who is reclining his seat is only using the comforts that came with the purchase of his ticket, nothing to do with owning the plane.

If you are too big for the seat space provided to you by the airliner, you should complain with them or purchase a ticket in another class where you have more leg space. Cargo bay seems to be very suitable for that.

[The Usual Suspect]

If I am on an overseas economy flight of 14 to 18 hours, the mofo behind me better not even THINK about using one of those!

[JesseFrank]

JesseFrank, on 28 Aug 2014 - 12:20, said:

MediaWatcher, on 28 Aug 2014 - 12:05, said:

JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:JesseFrank, on 27 Aug 2014 - 21:57, said:

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

What gives you the right to restrict their comfort...seems you have a problem. Airline should restrict the distance a seat can recline.

Not my problem isn't it ?

I'm not the airline, and I just use the comforts that are provided to me. e.g. reclining my seat to the extend that is provided.

I suggest you reread my post, because it is not me restricting anyones comfort.

By your actions, not the airlines, or anyone else, you infringe upon the person behind you. This is an action YOU take, without consideration for others, this is surely the definition of selfish.

So because I use the comfort provided by the airliner I infringe upon the person behind me?

So in your book, if they come round with the meals and you take the last glass of wine because the airliner didn't load enough bottles, it is you not the airliner who infringe on my right to have a glass of wine with my meal as well ?

[Regyai]

Yup

Defended knees

But

Smashed in visage

seems these l'ill plastic geegaws just move the potential injury location

[SS1]

Some of the comments are pretty ridiculous. When people book a flight, they pay for a reclining seat and are fully allowed to use it, which is perfectly normal on long haul flights as many usually sleep. Of course it's polite to check first the the person isn't just about to start their meal behind you..

Those tall people complaining.. you already know that you won't have much leg space when you are booking your flight. You can either book one in first class, or choose a better seat in the economy class! e.g. in front of the emergency exit with plenty of leg room. There is a website called seat guru where you can check every signle detail of every seat on your flight. You can hover over the seats with your mouse and it'll tell you comments and a rating of the particular seat..

You can't choose wether you get a tall person sitting behind you or not. But if you are the tall person, you can usually choose your seat in your plane, either online or ask for more leg room at check in. I understand the frustration of people with not enough leg room since I have the same problem, but when I book my flight in economy class I know how it's gonna be, so there is no complaning.