European firms decry Thai trial of British activist Andy Hall

[oldsailor35]

What Thailand is saying is quite simple, come to Thailand and enjoy yourself sure, but don't meddle in internal affairs. Foreigners are only tolerated up to a point, when they over step their mark, then the authorities will make a very clear statement, as they have in the past with others.

Thailand is still very much a developing country, and most are aware of their teething problems, which will be addressed, but by Thais of course !

NO! what it really says is that Thai businessmen have had full control to use and exploit the working class for so long, that they just cannot accept the idea of "A fair go for all" so if anyone threatens their power, they will use 'their' idea of what is right to maintain that control. The only answer is not to fight them in the courts, where a like minded judiciary reign. But to just bycott their products.

[smutcakes]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

[useronthenet]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

Edited August 28, 2014 by useronthenet

[Ace of Pop]

Recon it just Sour Grapes, not a Human Rights issue on Woolworths part.All the Big Corps ignore the abuse utill it gets publicised then they play Little White Hen and turn on that Nation.

[oldsailor35]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

Tell us, who are the owners ?

[SureNDT]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

"I'm a better expat than thou"

"I've lived here xx years"

"I understand Thai culture you don't"

As I said, your post is utter apologist nonsense. I'm glad a few others here agree.

[Ace of Pop]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

"I'm a better expat than thou"

"I've lived here xx years"

"I understand Thai culture you don't"

As I said, your post is utter apologist nonsense. I'm glad a few others here agree.

And Quite a few dont,but Newcomers are allways right

[oldsailor35]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

Quite so ! But their products are being sent to other countries, who surely have the right to know wether those products are the result of exploited labour or not , and then can make their own choices. Let them get away with it and these greedy people will continue buy their kids Lambourgini's etc., live in palaces with cheap servants. Meanwhile the workers can afford only to live in a shack and drive around on a Honda Click. Most rich Thai's are not even nice people concerning the working class, but just plain greedy with a superiority complex.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

Tell us, who are the owners ?

You find it here: http://andyjhall.wordpress.com/case/natural-fruit/

[fab4]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

Tell us, who are the owners ?

Natural Fruit - owned and operated by the brother of Democrat Party Secretary General Chalermchai Sri-On ( http://asiancorrespondent.com/110679/criminal-defamation-corporations-and-free-speech-the-andy-hall-case/ ).

Of course this information may be regarded as false by certain posters who regard the Asian Correspondent site as a hotbed of Red Shirt propaganda and therefore cannot be trusted. However a cursory internet search elsewhere will verify this information.

[Baerboxer]

Sort of like migrant workers in the US, Eurozone countries, the Middle East ... and Thai workers picking berries in Scandanavia or whatever

Often illegal or with dubious documentation provided by "agencies" who profit from bending laws, exploiting workers and leaving those they traffic in with debt and with little or no income.

United Nordic CEO Steinar Halvorsen told AFP that the group "will not accept such legal actions against journalists or other individuals that investigate and publish reports about human rights in Thai factories or any other factory worldwide"

I hope he and Andy Hall read these. No need to travel that far to find violations of human rights, but as usual, farang prefer pointng fingers at others to create a smokescreen of respectability.

Exploitation of migrant workers in Finland,

Sweden, Estonia and Lithuania: Uncovering

the links between recruitment, irregular

employment practices and labour trafficking

http://www.cbss.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HEUNI-report-75-15102013.pdf

A decade ago 23 Chinese cockle pickers drowned when they were trapped by sweeping tides while working in Morecambe Bay, Lancashire. Yet, 10 years on, campaigners say workers are still being dangerously exploited in the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-259145

You are correct that workers are exploited in many countries - usually migrants trying to escape the poverty traps back home.

The difference is that when caught companies and individuals responsible are punished in most countries. Here they sue the people who catch them and the law presses criminal charges for doing it.

See the difference?

Try thinking about the actual topic rather than rushing to bash foreigners and defend all things Thai.

[fab4]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

Tell us, who are the owners ?

Natural Fruit - owned and operated by the brother of Democrat Party Secretary General Chalermchai Sri-On ( http://asiancorrespondent.com/110679/criminal-defamation-corporations-and-free-speech-the-andy-hall-case/ ).

Of course this information may be regarded as false by certain posters who regard the Asian Correspondent site as a hotbed of Red Shirt propaganda and therefore cannot be trusted. However a cursory internet search elsewhere will verify this information.

[useronthenet]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

Quite so ! But their products are being sent to other countries, who surely have the right to know wether those products are the result of exploited labour or not , and then can make their own choices. Let them get away with it and these greedy people will continue buy their kids Lambourgini's etc., live in palaces with cheap servants. Meanwhile the workers can afford only to live in a shack and drive around on a Honda Click. Most rich Thai's are not even nice people concerning the working class, but just plain greedy with a superiority complex.

Sure, but there are many products that adorn our shelves in stores rights across Europe or indeed the world that are a result of slave-labour, and violations of human rights, and this is well-documented. Does that stop the public from buying them, In most cases not ! The west are perhaps more informed than most Thais, since there is a constant stream of uncensured programs filling our TV screens. Furthermore, we have more rights groups than any other nation. So who gives us the right to start pointing the blame at Thailand in particular, when it is quite clear our own house is not in order. That is like the kettle calling the pot black !

Furthermore, I do not see any Thais swanning into the west, marching to the drum, flying the banner of human rights, dictating to us about what and how we should run our countries, and yet we seemingly think we have the right to dictate to others ?

Edited August 28, 2014 by useronthenet

[Baerboxer]

Not surprised this case will be not get far given who the owners are.

Tell us, who are the owners ?

Natural Fruit - owned and operated by the brother of Democrat Party Secretary General Chalermchai Sri-On ( http://asiancorrespondent.com/110679/criminal-defamation-corporations-and-free-speech-the-andy-hall-case/ ).

Of course this information may be regarded as false by certain posters who regard the Asian Correspondent site as a hotbed of Red Shirt propaganda and therefore cannot be trusted. However a cursory internet search elsewhere will verify this information.

Unfortunately the scant regard for human rights, health and safety and exploitation is something common to many rich elites, regardless of nationality or which ever political view they claim to support. That's why most countries have to implement many laws, rules and regulations - and enforce them.

Greed and the desire for wealth at all cost is the mantra.

[useronthenet]

What Thailand is saying is quite simple, come to Thailand and enjoy yourself sure, but don't meddle in internal affairs. Foreigners are only tolerated up to a point, when they over step their mark, then the authorities will make a very clear statement, as they have in the past with others.

Thailand is still very much a developing country, and most are aware of their teething problems, which will be addressed, but by Thais of course !

Apologist nonsense.

Other countries that purchase Thai products have every right to transparency on how these products are produced.

Well done to Andy Hall in exposing their criminal and unethical business practices.

If want transparency here it is ...

The British Empire was a result of enslaving others, by pillaging, rape, murder, with such impunity that countries, like Africa, and indeed Asia, and many more, are still mopping up the mess the British made today. Other European countries, also played their part in violating human rights, which were so despicable it is hard to image how any one human being could inflict so pain and much suffering on another, like Belgium and the Congo, like the Dutch and their empire, and the the French and the legacy of their colonial past, the Americans and how they tamed the Indians, the Australians and how they almost wiped out the Aborigines.

The injustices of Thailand today pales into complete insignificance when you compare the rest of the world, and what they are doing to promote human rights. The mess in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Africa, South America, and the list goes on and on. I could do this all day until the cows come home !

So when you take your finger out of your righteous, holier than thou bottom, do your historical homework first, you muppet !

Edited August 28, 2014 by useronthenet

[khunken]

What Thailand is saying is quite simple, come to Thailand and enjoy yourself sure, but don't meddle in internal affairs. Foreigners are only tolerated up to a point, when they over step their mark, then the authorities will make a very clear statement, as they have in the past with others.

Thailand is still very much a developing country, and most are aware of their teething problems, which will be addressed, but by Thais of course !

Apologist nonsense.

Other countries that purchase Thai products have every right to transparency on how these products are produced.

Well done to Andy Hall in exposing their criminal and unethical business practices.

If want transparency here it is ...

The British Empire was a result of enslaving others, by pillaging, rape, murder, with such impunity that countries, like Africa, and indeed Asia, and many more, are still mopping up the mess the British made today. Other European countries, also played their part in violating human rights, which were so despicable it is hard to image how any one human being could inflict so pain and much suffering on another, like Belgium and the Congo, like the Dutch and their empire, and the the French and the legacy of their colonial past, the Americans and how they tamed the Indians, the Australians and how they almost wiped out the Aborigines.

The injustices of Thailand today pales into complete insignificance when you compare the rest of the world, and what they are doing to promote human rights. The mess in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Africa, South America, and the list goes on and on. I could do this all day until the cows come home !

So when you take your finger out of your righteous, holier than thou bottom, do your historical homework first, you muppet !

Nasty post of the thread.

All the human rights abuses throughout history are totally irrelevant to this case. If one was to use your false logic, no case would ever be investigated unless it compared to some historical precedent.

Mr Hall was working for Finnwatch to investigate human rights abuses against workers of the fruit company. This is standard practice for retailers in various countries to investigate abuses in the production of products sold in western supermarkets and retailers. Examples are almost slave-labour conditions in clothing, sports shoes etc in places like Bangladesh and even China.

The research is not done because the western retailers are all moral and ethical but because consumers won't buy their products unless they have standards to prevent the worst excesses.

Mr Hall did nothing wrong but, typically for a Thai company, they have used the law to suppress the truth. I have a feeling that even if they win their case against Mr Hall, they will be losers in export markets as this case has become very public overseas.

[Mudcrab]

What Thailand is saying is quite simple, come to Thailand and enjoy yourself sure, but don't meddle in internal affairs. Foreigners are only tolerated up to a point, when they over step their mark, then the authorities will make a very clear statement, as they have in the past with others.

Thailand is still very much a developing country, and most are aware of their teething problems, which will be addressed, but by Thais of course !

Apologist nonsense.

Other countries that purchase Thai products have every right to transparency on how these products are produced.

Well done to Andy Hall in exposing their criminal and unethical business practices.

If want transparency here it is ...

The British Empire was a result of enslaving others, by pillaging, rape, murder, with such impunity that countries, like Africa, and indeed Asia, and many more, are still mopping up the mess the British made today. Other European countries, also played their part in violating human rights, which were so despicable it is hard to image how any one human being could inflict so pain and much suffering on another, like Belgium and the Congo, like the Dutch and their empire, and the the French and the legacy of their colonial past, the Americans and how they tamed the Indians, the Australians and how they almost wiped out the Aborigines.

The injustices of Thailand today pales into complete insignificance when you compare the rest of the world, and what they are doing to promote human rights. The mess in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Africa, South America, and the list goes on and on. I could do this all day until the cows come home !

So when you take your finger out of your righteous, holier than thou bottom, do your historical homework first, you muppet !

Nasty post of the thread.

All the human rights abuses throughout history are totally irrelevant to this case. If one was to use your false logic, no case would ever be investigated unless it compared to some historical precedent.

Mr Hall was working for Finnwatch to investigate human rights abuses against workers of the fruit company. This is standard practice for retailers in various countries to investigate abuses in the production of products sold in western supermarkets and retailers. Examples are almost slave-labour conditions in clothing, sports shoes etc in places like Bangladesh and even China.

The research is not done because the western retailers are all moral and ethical but because consumers won't buy their products unless they have standards to prevent the worst excesses.

Mr Hall did nothing wrong but, typically for a Thai company, they have used the law to suppress the truth. I have a feeling that even if they win their case against Mr Hall, they will be losers in export markets as this case has become very public overseas.

I think Mr Hall did one thing wrong.

He thought he was a super hero.

He should have gathered the evidence and returned to Europe and had his say there.

But like all of the "activists" he believed his own hype and saw it as his duty to take on the "enemy" in their own territory.

Wait and see what happens - a lot of noise will be made but he will be on his own. And then forgotten about.

People happily knock the "Thais" for their love of money but seem to forget that the people at the very top of the corporations buying the product are hard-nosed business men and will act in whatever manner they can to maximise profit.

If Hall goes down and all of the white noise dies off, they will still buy whatever product is the cheapest and sell it at the maximum price they can obtain.

Anyone remember a few months ago when the Bangladeshi clothing factory collapsed? Wal Mart made all sorts of noises. Wonder what is happening now?

Seems to have gone a bit quiet lately.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Mudcrab

[hotsoup]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

What is 'interfering' about it. If there was any proper 'investigative' journalism in Thailand, then of course Thais can do it themselves. I don't accept that somehow Thais, particularly rich ones, are exempt from acceptable norms of human behavior. If journalists here were not so limp wristed it would be them not foreign journalists that have investigated the holdings of Thais in The British Virgin Islands, Cook Islands etc.

[khunken]

Apologist nonsense.

Other countries that purchase Thai products have every right to transparency on how these products are produced.

Well done to Andy Hall in exposing their criminal and unethical business practices.

If want transparency here it is ...

The British Empire was a result of enslaving others, by pillaging, rape, murder, with such impunity that countries, like Africa, and indeed Asia, and many more, are still mopping up the mess the British made today. Other European countries, also played their part in violating human rights, which were so despicable it is hard to image how any one human being could inflict so pain and much suffering on another, like Belgium and the Congo, like the Dutch and their empire, and the the French and the legacy of their colonial past, the Americans and how they tamed the Indians, the Australians and how they almost wiped out the Aborigines.

The injustices of Thailand today pales into complete insignificance when you compare the rest of the world, and what they are doing to promote human rights. The mess in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Africa, South America, and the list goes on and on. I could do this all day until the cows come home !

So when you take your finger out of your righteous, holier than thou bottom, do your historical homework first, you muppet !

Nasty post of the thread.

All the human rights abuses throughout history are totally irrelevant to this case. If one was to use your false logic, no case would ever be investigated unless it compared to some historical precedent.

Mr Hall was working for Finnwatch to investigate human rights abuses against workers of the fruit company. This is standard practice for retailers in various countries to investigate abuses in the production of products sold in western supermarkets and retailers. Examples are almost slave-labour conditions in clothing, sports shoes etc in places like Bangladesh and even China.

The research is not done because the western retailers are all moral and ethical but because consumers won't buy their products unless they have standards to prevent the worst excesses.

Mr Hall did nothing wrong but, typically for a Thai company, they have used the law to suppress the truth. I have a feeling that even if they win their case against Mr Hall, they will be losers in export markets as this case has become very public overseas.

I think Mr Hall did one thing wrong.

He thought he was a super hero.

He should have gathered the evidence and returned to Europe and had his say there.

But like all of the "activists" he believed his own hype and saw it as his duty to take on the "enemy" in their own territory.

Wait and see what happens - a lot of noise will be made but he will be on his own. And then forgotten about.

Yes he did leave himself open to attack by returning to Thailand from Myanmar.

But to accuse him of being a super hero is OTT and there was no 'hype' in what he reported.

Seems you have something against activists. If he were Thai he'd probably be dead by now.

EDit to add comment to your additions.

The Bangladesh factory tragedy did result in British-based companies tightening their monitoring of sources. Walmart? Don't know as they are a law unto themselves.

The point is that if no one does anything then the companies will continue to screw poor workers. Mr Hall did something and IMO should be praised for that. Consumers in Europe are far more aware and sensitive to corrupt businesses than those in the US. Maybe those in Oz are similar to those in Europe.

Edited August 28, 2014 by khunken

[wwest5829]

Migrant workers, particularly from Myanmar and Cambodia, help keep major Thai industries from seafood to construction afloat, but they often lack official work permits and are paid below the minimum wage.

Sort of like migrant workers in the US, Eurozone countries, the Middle East ... and Thai workers picking berries in Scandanavia or whatever

Often illegal or with dubious documentation provided by "agencies" who profit from bending laws, exploiting workers and leaving those they traffic in with debt and with little or no income.

United Nordic CEO Steinar Halvorsen told AFP that the group "will not accept such legal actions against journalists or other individuals that investigate and publish reports about human rights in Thai factories or any other factory worldwide"

I hope he and Andy Hall read these. No need to travel that far to find violations of human rights, but as usual, farang prefer pointng fingers at others to create a smokescreen of respectability.

Exploitation of migrant workers in Finland,

Sweden, Estonia and Lithuania: Uncovering

the links between recruitment, irregular

employment practices and labour trafficking

http://www.cbss.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HEUNI-report-75-15102013.pdf

A decade ago 23 Chinese cockle pickers drowned when they were trapped by sweeping tides while working in Morecambe Bay, Lancashire. Yet, 10 years on, campaigners say workers are still being dangerously exploited in the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-25914594

So, you agree that Thailand, like the wrongdoing in other countries you list, needs to have public international exposure of wrongdoing and that Thailand, like these other countries will not prosecute for slander or libel if there is proof presented for public scrutiny?

Or are you proposing that Thailand should be immune to citation of wrongdoing until all ills are cured in these other countries?

Edited August 28, 2014 by wwest5829

[useronthenet]

I could name hundreds of products which are bought in shops with are neither moral or ethical, but they are still for sale in every store in the world. Like chocolate and coffee which many organizations have exposed the real truth on how it's being produced, and yes many are aware that it is perhaps immoral or unethical, but most consumers choose to ignore this, and still buy it anyway.

Of course a lot of the stuff we consume is not necessary, I myself can do without bananas, coffee, tea, chocolate, rice and even pineapple. The world unfortunately has created an artificial need at the expense of others, and this is not about to disappear.

If we are talking about morals, then that will really depend on each and every country. What the west may think is immoral, maybe quite acceptable in another, and visa versa.

Anyway, below is a list of what is produced around the world, warning it makes grim reading.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/292199-2011tvpra-childlabor2011usdol.html

Now tell me you don't eat or use any of these products in your daily life.

[useronthenet]

I could name hundreds of products which are bought in shops with are neither moral or ethical, but they are still for sale in every store in the world. Like chocolate and coffee which many organizations have exposed the real truth on how it's being produced, and yes many are aware that it is perhaps immoral or unethical, but most consumers choose to ignore this, and still buy it anyway.

Of course a lot of the stuff we consume is not necessary, I myself can do without bananas, coffee, tea, chocolate, rice and even pineapple. The world unfortunately has created an artificial need at the expense of others, and this is not about to disappear.

If we are talking about morals, then that will really depend on each and every country. What the west may think is immoral, maybe quite acceptable in another, and visa versa.

Anyway, below is a list of what is produced around the world, warning it makes grim reading.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/292199-2011tvpra-childlabor2011usdol.html

Now tell me you don't eat or use any of these products in your daily life.

[wwest5829]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

While I agree with much of your general premise I would observe that, if Thailand enters into international trade, then Thailand, like other global traders will have to deal with marketplace pressures. In this case, and others that we have seen globally, there will be a general reaction against public exposed wrongdoing.

[ukrules]

I think sanctions against the companies, company directors and perhaps even their banks by the EU, US and other countries involved might influence the right thing to happen in cases like this where the law is used to silence someone reporting illegal activity.

[tbthailand]

did the EU investors bring this up in the meeting with the General?

[kimamey]

Ahh,Thailand never changes. Legal action against someone who exposes wrong doing and they call it defamation. Fake laws for a Fake country.

Maybe these crazy defamation laws are being rewritten right now as part of the new governments law rewrite.

Let's hope so. I wonder if it will include any investigations into the military?

[englishoak]

Thais hate criticism. I don't think there is a people on the planet less able to handle even constructive criticism as the Thais. They are so self obsessed and lacking in the ability to reason that they lash out, much like a scolded child.

These archaic laws are there to prevent criticism of those with power, status and money and are a very useful tool in keeping the status quo for those that continually abuse those privileges.

Just another cultural flaw in the money-worship cult.

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

Quite so ! But their products are being sent to other countries, who surely have the right to know wether those products are the result of exploited labour or not , and then can make their own choices. Let them get away with it and these greedy people will continue buy their kids Lambourgini's etc., live in palaces with cheap servants. Meanwhile the workers can afford only to live in a shack and drive around on a Honda Click. Most rich Thai's are not even nice people concerning the working class, but just plain greedy with a superiority complex.

Sure, but there are many products that adorn our shelves in stores rights across Europe or indeed the world that are a result of slave-labour, and violations of human rights, and this is well-documented. Does that stop the public from buying them, In most cases not ! The west are perhaps more informed than most Thais, since there is a constant stream of uncensured programs filling our TV screens. Furthermore, we have more rights groups than any other nation. So who gives us the right to start pointing the blame at Thailand in particular, when it is quite clear our own house is not in order. That is like the kettle calling the pot black !

Furthermore, I do not see any Thais swanning into the west, marching to the drum, flying the banner of human rights, dictating to us about what and how we should run our countries, and yet we seemingly think we have the right to dictate to others ?

That is because Thailand dosnt give a rats about human rights, just the bottom line, it trades with the west, it takes the money and complains when its found wanting in acceptable business practise ? give me a break, thats not to say that western companies wouldnt do it or dont if they think they can get away with it, thankfully people like Andy Hall expose them for what they are when found and as a rule it is less likely to prevail and business falls in line and understands its less damaging and more profitable to follow popular sentiment rather than blatantly flaunt and fight it.

For evil and injustice to flourish good men just have to do nothing, if something is wrong it needs exposing, Andy Hall is a good man and chose to do something rather than nothing and for that he should be fully supported by anyone who knows right from wrong.

Edited August 28, 2014 by englishoak

[khunken]

As with most countries, but they are allowed to manage their problems on their own terms, and not by foreigners who think they can swan in and start pointing the finger.

Thai culture, since you seemingly do not understand it, is far different than western ideology. I can give you many examples of western countries who flout human rights almost on a daily basis, with the same impunity like Asia, but Thailand does not involve itself with such matters, as it has much bigger fish to fry ATM, like sorting out the mess, which is being handled quite well by the task force empowered to address such issues.

Andy Hall, like most, knew the consequences of such actions could lead to him facing imprisonment. Whilst I understand what he's trying to achieve, it is never-the-less not his place to interfere with internal issues. Many times over foreigners have the impression that they have some bearing on Thailand, unfortunately they do not, and that is clearly echoed in the legislation that exists preventing foreigners from getting foothold in Thailand.

I for one have lived here for over two decades, and have accepted that there are some things that need to be handled by Thais themselves. Let them learn from their own mistakes, and let them solve their problems. It is after all their country, not ours.

Quite so ! But their products are being sent to other countries, who surely have the right to know wether those products are the result of exploited labour or not , and then can make their own choices. Let them get away with it and these greedy people will continue buy their kids Lambourgini's etc., live in palaces with cheap servants. Meanwhile the workers can afford only to live in a shack and drive around on a Honda Click. Most rich Thai's are not even nice people concerning the working class, but just plain greedy with a superiority complex.

Sure, but there are many products that adorn our shelves in stores rights across Europe or indeed the world that are a result of slave-labour, and violations of human rights, and this is well-documented. Does that stop the public from buying them, In most cases not ! The west are perhaps more informed than most Thais, since there is a constant stream of uncensured programs filling our TV screens. Furthermore, we have more rights groups than any other nation. So who gives us the right to start pointing the blame at Thailand in particular, when it is quite clear our own house is not in order. That is like the kettle calling the pot black !

Furthermore, I do not see any Thais swanning into the west, marching to the drum, flying the banner of human rights, dictating to us about what and how we should run our countries, and yet we seemingly think we have the right to dictate to others ?

That is because Thailand dosnt give a rats about human rights, just the bottom line, it trades with the west, it takes the money and complains when its found wanting in acceptable business practise ? give me a break, thats not to say that western companies wouldnt do it or dont if they think they can get away with it, thankfully people like Andy Hall expose them for what they are when found and as a rule it is less likely to prevail and business falls in line and understands its less damaging and more profitable to follow popular sentiment rather than blatantly flaunt and fight it.

For evil and injustice to flourish good men just have to do nothing, if something is wrong it needs exposing, Andy Hall is a good man and chose to do something rather than nothing and for that he should be fully supported by anyone who knows right from wrong.

I agree with your last paragraph but not the first few sentences.

To say that Thailand doesn't give a rats about human rights is completely wrong. Not all Thais are of that mind and some have died trying to fight for them. The Op is about one company who certainly needs to be exposed and Mr Hall is to be complimented for doing that.

Yes, the Thai authorities have suppressed or ignored human rights since it's pseudo-democracy was created and before. But western countries, excluding human rights activists, are very good at finger-pointing even when involved in all sorts of abuses in other countries.

Anyway to give human rights activists their due, who can forget the Nike 'sweatshop' success when a consumer tried to have that word written on his sneakers and Nike refused.

[Benmart]

Why all this blablablabla....?

STOP the import WORLDWIDE of "Natural Food" products and they will start to change their approach.

Try using the right name, "Natural Fruit". Without that, you'll get nowhere.

I figured out what was meant.

TVF is hardly a legal brief.

[connda]

Notice to Western journalists: This is Thailand.