New Garden In Issan

[phusingpete]

Hi all, we have just completed building our house and garage and now clearing the rubble, after which I am keen to start planting.I have seen a similar site here but it was centred on the Bangkok area. I would like to know of any good, reliable plant/tree suppliers in the Ubon,Sisaket or Surin areas. I was thinking of putting down turf but now wonder if grass seed would take. Trouble is the land has been filled with very poor soil, but I assume I can put down some type of fertliser, but what and where to buy?

We have only one tree on the land,which incidently they wanted to cut down before building the house, so I would like to have a few larger trees to create some shade. But as I am an old git, feel that I do not have a great deal of time to sit and watch saplings grow. I would like to do most of the work involved myself but I assume that if I buy a few large trees the supplier will plant them. I am really interested in creating a jungle like environment with some open grass areas, lots of palms some fruit tree's but also brightly coloured flowering plants. Any info. and advice would be really appreciated.

Many thanks in anticipation...

[TBWG]

Hi all, we have just completed building our house and garage and now clearing the rubble, after which I am keen to start planting.I have seen a similar site here but it was centred on the Bangkok area. I would like to know of any good, reliable plant/tree suppliers in the Ubon,Sisaket or Surin areas. I was thinking of putting down turf but now wonder if grass seed would take. Trouble is the land has been filled with very poor soil, but I assume I can put down some type of fertliser, but what and where to buy?

We have only one tree on the land,which incidently they wanted to cut down before building the house, so I would like to have a few larger trees to create some shade. But as I am an old git, feel that I do not have a great deal of time to sit and watch saplings grow. I would like to do most of the work involved myself but I assume that if I buy a few large trees the supplier will plant them. I am really interested in creating a jungle like environment with some open grass areas, lots of palms some fruit tree's but also brightly coloured flowering plants. Any info. and advice would be really appreciated.

Many thanks in anticipation...

Hi Phusingpete

If you want to establish a garden quickly then stick to the usual common plants, palms, bamboo, mango trees and banana's for colour you could add hibiscus, frangipani, bourgainvillea jasmine whilst these are getting established you can then try the more exotic jobs.

Seems to me providing you water regularly everything grows at a phenominal rate, downside is they also die quickly as well.

Good luck it is very satisfying seeing everthing grow so quickly and before long you will be self sufficient in mangoes and bananas.

TBWG

[chownah]

Phusingpete,

You probably have sandy soil. The problem with sandy soil is that is holds very little water so even if you water heavily it dries out quickly and then things suffer. Also with sandy soil since the water drains through it so easily you will have a tendency to wash all of the chemical fertilizer out of the soil quickly.

But you might have clay soil. The problem with clay soil is that water will tend to run off easily and not soak in and when it does finally soak in the clay holds so much water that it turns into soft mud and stays that way for a long time and then when it does finally dry out it will get hard like a rock if you let it get too dry.

Not to worry...addition of organic material to your soil will solve the problems of both sandy and clay soils!!!! Yes its hard to believe but it is absolutely true that no matter what kind of soil you have you will only make it better by adding more organic matter.

So, where do I get the seemingly magical substance called "organic matter"? Cow manure, water buffalo manure, chicken manure.....these are the big three of organic fertilizers in Thailand. Not only do they provide the nutrients that your plants want, crave and desire.....but they also add organic matter to your soil. Once you get the fertility of your soil up you can start to add organic matter in forms that do not contain such large quantities of nutrients but which will increase the organic matter in the soil and hasten the development of "humus" which is the holy grail of gardening. But are these humus forming non nutritive soil additives expensive?, you might ask and the answer is "maybe you can get them for free!!" If you live near a rice field you might be able to sweet talk a farmer out of some of his rice straw....for free!!!....and if you find where the local rice mill is you might be able to get some rice hulls (it looks like sawdust...it is the tough outer husk of the rice grain that is removed as the first step of the milling process) for free!!!...abso fricking lutely free!!! I get rice straw and rice hulls for free...I also get manure for free but that's because my uncle keeps cow and my aunt raises some chickens....usually around here you have to pay between 5 and 10 baht for an animal feed sized bag of cow manure unless someone in your family can help you out.

I have been using cow manure and rice hulls mostly in the bulk of my vegetable garden patch for three years now. I have to admit that I use more of these wonderful commodities than most people would.....but....the results in terms of soil and plant quality has impressed even the locals.....and the same spectacular results can be obtained regardless of the type of soil you start with.

Now I realize that not everyone wants to do organic gardening....its easier to just throw some granulated chemicals around and call it good....to each his own. But, even if you want to poison the living organism of the soil which is so willingly offered to everyone from the bosom of mother earth....if you really want to rip off your mother and treat Her with such disrespect.......you can still add organic matter to the soil and get a lot of improvement over just going with chemicals.....read about it...its everywhere.

[udon]

Good post, Chownah, thanks

[pnustedt]

I would like to know of any good, reliable plant/tree suppliers in the Ubon,Sisaket or Surin areas.

If approaching Sisaket from Phu Sing (on the Khu Khan road) continue across the Surin-Ubon bypass then turn left at the right bend to the dual carriageway road. There is a pretty good garden centre about 1-2 km on the left (opp school). They sell peat at 4 bags/100bt and have a good selection of plants. They should also be able to put you in touch with turf supplier but if not PM me (my neighbour has just turfed his garden and offered me the contact - I think he had some economy of scale deal in mind) and I will get the contact for you.

Also, a few hundred metres up the Khu Khan road on the right is another centre specialising in mature plants. Never been in there so don't really know the deal.

P.S. If you want the organic stuff just drive around the area with a bucket and spade in the back of a pick-up - it's free!

Edited July 16, 2006 by pnustedt

[soic]

So, where do I get the seemingly magical substance called "organic matter"? Cow manure, water buffalo manure, chicken manure.....these are the big three of organic fertilizers in Thailand.

When using Cow, buffalo or Chicken manure, be wary of the heat, the smell and timing of your planting. Those varieties can and will burn plants if the soil is mixed too close to planting, they are very high in nitrogen content. If you're going to have this garden as a sitting area... I would recommend horse manure. It will be harder to get in Thailand, but it is still possible. The smell isn't as strong and it won't burn plants. You cannot put too much in the garden, in fact, the more you put, the finer the texture of the soil; which will allow the roots to spread. The only downsides to horse manure are availability and undigested grass and alfalfa seed. You'll need to lay newspaper and/or some type of mulch over the fertilized soil to prevent them from springing up as well. I've always used horse manure in my gardens at home and in Thailand, my vegetables in America were extremely hardy and I managed to get at least 2-3 more pickings or greater yield than my neighbors. My tomato plants wound up as bushes, with the stalks as big around as my wrist. Peat humice is good too.

[sbk]

Some manures are hotter than others, chicken manure being one of them.

Another option, if your soil is heavy clay, is to dig holes (big ones!) where you want to plant and just compost in the holes. Throw in your manure, vegetable peelings and then some dry matter as well, like the rice hulls. Cover over with some dirt and then, in a few months, you can plant in the hole easily. And feed your tree

[chownah]

If cow or kwai manure is put in a low pile off in a corner and covered with rice hulls and just left to sit for a couple of months perhaps with a roof tile covering the center of it in the rainy season....then it will not smell initially because of the rice hulls and after two months it will have decomposed into rich odorless soil conditioner....the rice hulls can just be mixed in with the manure and then put in the garden. You could make a few piles and assure yourself of a constant supply of odorless aged manure.

[pnustedt]

Also, a few hundred metres up the Khu Khan road on the right is another centre specialising in mature plants. Never been in there so don't really know the deal.

Correction: The centre selling mature trees is just before the turning to the garden centre (past it yesterday).

[Taggart]

I've heard rumours that elephant manure (if available) was also good for amending soil. Don't know if that's true or not.

[jayenram]

Throw in your manure, vegetable peelings and then some dry matter as well, like the rice hulls.

When I first laid out my garden, my foreman advised rice hulls as 'organic matter'. I don't know whether he did it wrong or used the wrong stuff, but during the rainy season rice was growing through my lawn!

[lampard10]

You don't need cow manure, horse manure, buffalo manure. Next time you're at the FC just bring along a pick-up.

[phusingpete]

You don't need cow manure, horse manure, buffalo manure. Next time you're at the FC just bring along a pick-up.

Hi all, many,many thanks for the info. and advice, have not been able to access the web for some time , so have just seen your replies. Our soil is definately sandy and will need a great deal of organic material, so will now check the availability of buffalo manure and rice husk's. We do live in the middle of rice fields. We are going for a 2 month holiday to the UK in August, so I shall try to create a manure pile, as suggested by Chownah, before we leave. Also have a look at some of the garden centre's mentioned.

I know what you mean Lampy, sure is a lot of bullshite in the air at your place, but I love it. Notice I said in the air not on the table..........I'm only little!!!!!............. Cheers and thanks again for the advice................

[chownah]

Phusingpete,

You might see if you can buy some truckloads of good topsoil to put on top of the sand you've got....I think that is what I would do if at all possible....and then continue with addition of organic material. Even 5cm of good topsoil would make a big difference....of course 10cm would be even better. Good dirt here is called black dirt....in Thai "din dahm". You might have a hard time getting any now because it is rice season and most fields are flooded but after harvest when the fields have dried out some you may be able to get some good dirt....it is best to be sure that you are really getting good topsoil when you order it...some people think that really sandy soil is good top soil so you need to make sure they understand what you want....I always investigate where the soil is coming from and go take a look if possible or else get one truckload and examine it yourself (or hire an expert to inspect it for you) before committing to a large number of loads. Also, remember that if you go to a field where they say they are going to get the dirt and the dirt looks good you must still be a bit cautious since the field might have a think covering of good dirt and nothing but sand underneath...you'll get mostly sand....maybe dig a few testholes?

Chownah

Edited July 19, 2006 by chownah

[lampard10]

I know what you mean Lampy, sure is a lot of bullshite in the air at your place, but I love it.

Can't see really why your asking for advice. You brought so much with you, I thought you would be making a handsome profit selling it yourself

[phusingpete]

Phusingpete,

You might see if you can buy some truckloads of good topsoil to put on top of the sand you've got....I think that is what I would do if at all possible....and then continue with addition of organic material. Even 5cm of good topsoil would make a big difference....of course 10cm would be even better. Good dirt here is called black dirt....in Thai "din dahm". You might have a hard time getting any now because it is rice season and most fields are flooded but after harvest when the fields have dried out some you may be able to get some good dirt....it is best to be sure that you are really getting good topsoil when you order it...some people think that really sandy soil is good top soil so you need to make sure they understand what you want....I always investigate where the soil is coming from and go take a look if possible or else get one truckload and examine it yourself (or hire an expert to inspect it for you) before committing to a large number of loads. Also, remember that if you go to a field where they say they are going to get the dirt and the dirt looks good you must still be a bit cautious since the field might have a think covering of good dirt and nothing but sand underneath...you'll get mostly sand....maybe dig a few testholes?

Chownah

Chownah,

I will look into this but really I do not hold much hope of getting better soil,all seems the same red sand round here. However lots of palms ect growing around here so hopefully with the organic manure and rice husks you suggested all will be well. I intend to get a few piles going before I go on holiday so that I can use it on my return. I assume it would be best to spread it then plow it into the land and where I plant larger trees/palms dig large holes , shovel in some manure and plant the tree as suggested in another post. cheers, phusingpete