Retirement extension: Embassy Proof of Income not accepted

[ubonjoe]

Slightly off topic.....what boils me is that they wont accept the part and part method unless the monies are seasoned for 3 months...

Apparently there is a new rules, dated aug 13th, invisible to public eyes, that dictates that.

Paz do you have any link or more information about this?I mean they have now secret rules? So people going there and not knowing this will have big issues if this is true.

It is only at immigration in Bangkok. They told a person that there was a new rule for there only that started in August of last year.

[INV]

ok great Thanks ubonjoe

[smedly]

OP, you say the letter was "the same letter he had used every year previously".

It might be different in Jomtien, but up here they immigration ask for a new letter every year.

It is a new letter he got from the Aus Embassy just days before.

Aus does not require any documentation, same as the US embassy.

Perhaps rejected is too strong a word. Not accepted perhaps? A distinction without a difference IMO. Either way, he had never been asked for further bank information before, and getting it assembled in the course of a few days is quite a scramble. Money in the bank will certainly not be seasoned, this seems to be the detail he is most worried about,

So I guess the point of this is, again, what was accepted as proof before is, in this case at least, not being accepted as proof now.

so the embassy does not require evidence - that would explain a lot

If the embassy doesn't require evidence then maybe the immigration being aware of this want to see evidence of income claimed, I would guess in the form of a few bank statements from were this claimed income is paid into in Australia, hardly unreasonable when all is considered

I'm surprised they ever accepted it and that includes people from the US - if you can simply go to the embassy and tell them what your income is showing no evidence - sign a form and they produce a letter - what good is that, no wonder they are a bit sceptical

[Morphun]

Is there a problem in compliance where people need to show 800k in an account over a period of time?

I guess Immigration is aware of the dodgy operators who can provide 'proof' of 800k for the payment of

20k.

If you have the money, there should be no problem. If you don't have the money and are telling porkies,

you have to expect to eventually be caught.

[hiller]

Never take your Thai wife to immigration, nor your Thai girlfriend, nor your wife/girlfriends brother. Only time I ever had a problem, wife was screaming at a female immigration officer. I left with no renewal that day. Went back two days later, apologized and received my visa.

[gskimbrell]

I renewed my "retirement visa"/long stay extension for the purpose of retirement today at Jomtien Immigration using an income verification letter from the US Embassy in Bangkok...no problems encountered.

[Jingthing]

Is there a problem in compliance where people need to show 800k in an account over a period of time?

I guess Immigration is aware of the dodgy operators who can provide 'proof' of 800k for the payment of

20k.

....

This person came in with an income letter showing enough income for an income application and according to report they demand an 800K bank account application instead in this case. An 800K bank account application, when done legally, needs the money to be seasoned for two months, first extension, and three months, subsequent ones. You are referring to well known commercial visa fixers ... not sure how that relates to THIS particular case. It wasn't a bank account application rejected here, it was an INCOME METHOD application rejected.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Slightly off topic.....what boils me is that they wont accept the part and part method unless the monies are seasoned for 3 months...

Apparently there is a new rules, dated aug 13th, invisible to public eyes, that dictates that.

Paz do you have any link or more information about this?I mean they have now secret rules? So people going there and not knowing this will have big issues if this is true.

It is only at immigration in Bangkok. They told a person that there was a new rule for there only that started in August of last year.

I'm not sure that tells the entire story on this subject...

First, there have been multiple reports from multiple members here, myself included, of Bangkok Immigration saying they are now requiring seasoning of the bank deposit portion of combo method retirement extension applications.

Second, the BKK Immigration staff telling folks that, myself included, are claiming this is a national policy, not a Bangkok only one. Although, there haven't been reports from many other areas as yet of the same seasoning policy being changed elsewhere.

Third, I do believe, even prior to this recent development with Bangkok, there were several other outlying Immigration offices for a long time already had been requiring seasoning of combo method bank deposit funds. But in the past, they were the oddball exceptions, and there never was any claim this was going to be a national policy.

Fourth, despite the BKK Immigration staff claiming the seasoning requirement is the result of some kind of new or recent Police Order, no one here as yet has been able to get them to produce anything in writing documenting that requirement, including a member here who had been denied and later went back to Immigration last week with an Immigration attorney (and still got nowhere).

I'd say it's too early at this point to know just how this issue is going to play out on the broader scale.

I don't want to further divert this thread from its original subject and question.

So, any further comments on the combo method seasoning issue would be best posted in the running thread on that topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/752971-retirement-visa-combination-of-pension-money-in-bank-account/

[Shotime]

I have to do it soon. If there's a problem, it's about money. Ask how much it costs to make everything ok. Some, not all, don't like us.

[Furryman]

While I have not had time to get all the gritty details from my friend, he did return to immigration and get his extension. He came back with a pile of printouts of bank statements etc. that the officials barely glanced at before handing over his passport with the stamp for the new year already inside. It seems that for whatever reason, they decided they wanted to make him jump though some extra hoops. /shrug.

I guess the moral of the story is that just because something worked one way once, it may not every time, and back up documentation is a good idea.

[Jingthing]

Thanks. Frankly that indicates a massive miscommunication. It seems they actually never really demanded an 800k application but were just asking for some evidence of the income in the letter. Not at all surprising. Mystery if it raises to that level solved.

Next ...

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[Furryman]

Thanks. Frankly that indicates a massive miscommunication. It seems they actually never really demanded an 800k application but were just asking for some evidence of the income in the letter. Not at all surprising. Mystery if it raises to that level solved.

Next ...

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They were unclear about what they wanted to see exactly, it seems they just wanted to see the records of his Thai bank account, perhaps just to see that he was keeping money here in Thailand. He has also told me since that he was not the only only one with a Aus. income letter that was getting extra scrutiny. There were a few others there going through similar issues, all from Aus.

The Americans were sailing through with no problems.

[Jingthing]

I think what was meant was if you can't back up your income letter and that day he couldn't then your only option is an 800k based application.

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[Jingthing]

BTW, I find it very hard to believe that there is any policy of special treatment for Americans compared to Aussies. Gossip and anecdotes notwithstanding.

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[boike]

When I brought my US friend the first time to th US embassy for the affidavit he told me they made him swear that his income was enough. Last year the same. Sadly he passed away way to young. Anyway plenty of people on extensions only use their atm cards from back home and don't have a bank account here. You can call it stupid but as far as I know it says nowhere that you have to transfer money to a Thai bank account.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[Jingthing]

Correct. Transfers not required under law. However sometimes officers still may ask for evidence that the income claimed in letters is real.

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[boike]

The problem is that the writing on these atm slips fade. So useless after a while. Personally I use both bank transfer and atm. When I have a bunch of the atm slips I just scan them

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[NancyL]

That's right -- Hubby always brings in the most recent U.S. federal tax return filings, with his 1099 forms. That should "prove" his income, if they care to puzzle thru them. Never been asked. Never even had to pull them out of his file folder.

[moe666]

Are we sure he had enough income to qualify, that hasn't been mentioned. The problem with I have a friend post

[Jingthing]

Are we sure he had enough income to qualify, that hasn't been mentioned. The problem with I have a friend post

Clearly he did. He got his extension based on an income letter!

The officers have the power.

If they choose they can always ask for more evidence of anything they like.

For good reason.

Or because they had a bad breakfast or think you smell, or whatever!

If using an income letter it's probably not a bad idea to bring along supporting documentation JUST IN CASE.

[Codesh]

I used an Embassy letter last January for the first time. The Immigration Officer was unhappy for some reason. She asked me a few times if my monthly income was as high as I had stated in the letter - a lot higher than was needed. Each time she asked I offered her a folder of documents showing income from various investments that matched what I had stated. I also had documents showing 1.5 million baht invested in SET here in Thailand for over 6 months (not, of course, in a bank account). I was not trying to deceive anyone, just being as upfront as I could to keep it simple, so I thought. She would not look at the documents I had, but was very grudging and unfriendly in renewing the visa. The guy before me showed her a seasoned bank account and she was all smiles and he was out of there in no time. Maybe they don't really like variations, just the seasoned money in the bank method? I imagine it is next to impossible for them to make sense of stockbroker statements, tax documents in other countries etc, so they just don't like them.

PS I was very polite and well dressed, so I don't think she was unhappy from my attitude. Just the fact that it wasn't a straightforward bank book.

[Jingthing]

This is a very old issue now. The fact that some embassies provide letters without proof. It has sometimes provoked a reaction in immigration, and mostly not. In any case, the income letter method is valid and I would suggest that people who actually have legit income claims continue to use it. It is also nothing at all new that officers can and sometimes do ask questions and demand more documents. Of course a hard cold bank balance number with hard cold dates is easier for immigration than making any judgments about the validity of those numbers (as is sometimes the case with income claims).

[ttthailand]

Bring in an income letter from your Embassy and also a letter from your bank showing that you have an account in Thailand. It don't matter the amount in your account as long as your income letter is showing enough. This is what I do and they have never questioned anything. They did however once not see my bank letter and asked for it.... I think I had 45k in my account at the time of letter.

This may not be a requirement but it is a simple thing to do and gives them one more thing to look at .... Keep them smiling

[Jingthing]

Never a bad idea to being more than you need, only present what you know is needed, and be ready to present more only if demanded.

[OMGImInPattaya]

There is absolutely no official requirement to transfer even one baht from abroad if using the income method!

Yes, they are not accepting the embassy letter.

Clearly they are looking for some kind of evidence that income stated is for real.

In the past, some offices have done a temporary ENFORCEMENT policy of needing to show some months of incoming transfers.

That never seemed to have stuck for long.

Again, nothing to do with official retirement extension rules.

Just the same old game of ever shifting enforcement policies, office to office, officer to officer, day by day.

If I were this applicant and the income IS for real, I would figure out a way to credibly document that income (such as documents from the paying entity).

If they are really looking for transfer proof to a Thai bank, yes, they should be more specific about exactly what they need.

I think there is a good chance they would accept another kind of credible evidence of the stated income.

Yep, an ever shifting enforcement "game" because feral farangs are always trying to game the system and obtain "retirement" visas for which they don't qualify. It's really too bad that farangs who do abide by the rules have to suffer for the sins of their fellows but I do tip my hat to the immigration officers doing their best to protect Thailand from undesirables.

[BngkkB]

Can you use a Thai bank verified and stamped print out of your bank deposits for the past six months or year without the embassy letter? Not for a seasoned 800K but to meet the income requirements. I transfer from the USA to my Thai bank monthly what is needed to live here. Yes the amounts of the monthly transfers meet immigrations requirments.

[ubonjoe]

Can you use a Thai bank verified and stamped print out of your bank deposits for the past six months or year without the embassy letter? Not for a seasoned 800K but to meet the income requirements. I transfer from the USA to my Thai bank monthly what is needed to live here. Yes the amounts of the monthly transfers meet immigrations requirments.

Immigration will not accept anything for income proof other than a letter from the embassy.

In your case if from the states you will need to do an income affidavit at the embassy. Cost is $50 or about 1600 baht.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Bring in an income letter from your Embassy and also a letter from your bank showing that you have an account in Thailand. It don't matter the amount in your account as long as your income letter is showing enough. This is what I do and they have never questioned anything. They did however once not see my bank letter and asked for it.... I think I had 45k in my account at the time of letter.

This may not be a requirement but it is a simple thing to do and gives them one more thing to look at .... Keep them smiling

I like this idea and will do so next year. When I renewed my extension a few weeks ago, there was an inkling of a desire to see more proof. I have the requisite income in my embassy letter (with proof) but I think having a bank passbook with me might just add that little bit more because, well, it's something on paper they can see. It makes them happy.

[OJAS]

Never a bad idea to being more than you need, only present what you know is needed, and be ready to present more only if demanded.

Absolutely, I have always taken along with me to Immigration at annual extension of stay time a thick bundle of possible supporting documentation (including the income evidence I provided to the British Embassy for their income confirmation letter) - and shall continue to do so even though for the past couple of years all I've had to provide was a completed TM7, Embassy letter, passport + copies and the 1,900 THB fee.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Never a bad idea to being more than you need, only present what you know is needed, and be ready to present more only if demanded.

Absolutely, I have always taken along with me to Immigration at annual extension of stay time a thick bundle of possible supporting documentation (including the income evidence I provided to the British Embassy for their income confirmation letter) - and shall continue to do so even though for the past couple of years all I've had to provide was a completed TM7, Embassy letter, passport + copies and the 1,900 THB fee.

Much easier to just dump a few million baht into a Thai bank...save all those 180 baht charges too.