Dual-pricing is scaring tourists away: Thai editorial

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just imagine the uproar if a country like the US or UK increased prices for attractions, based on nationality of the buyer.. it would be a non-stater.

Based on skin color of customer is more accurate.

And please, let's not have all the numbnuts suggesting local pricing happens all over the world.

Thailand operates RACIAL pricing.

I have no problem with discounts for locals, I do have a problem with dual pricing based on racism.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[harrry]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

[smotherb]

Another beautiful reason for staying away from the tourist traps. When I visit friends in Phuket, Ao Nang and Samui, I am continually made aware of price differences--not just dual pricing, but huge increases in retail prices; and those price increases are not in correlation to overhead costs, and not only in farang-related businesses.

[Clutch]

Not sure if duel pricing is scaring off tourists but I am sure it's making them pi**ed off (if they even know). Personally I won't patronize these cons of places.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

What sort of Thai government educational services do visitors use?

I can't think of any.

95% of Thais don't pay customs duty, they don't have the money for foreign travel.

80% of Thais don't pay income tax.

Everyone pays VAT, Thai, foreigner or visitor.

Why not think a bit more before posting?

Edited September 4, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[masuk]

There are many, many Thais residing in America, single again after their multiple divorces from US dreamers so we should charge all of them double/triple, rescind land ownership papers and have then report to US immigration every 90 days. Ditto for Thai holidayers !

No way!

Leave the country each 90 days just as we do.

[Clutch]

I think "The Land of Smiles" logo is way past it's sell by date.

'Turn that frown upside down' could be the next TOT theme.

[harrry]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

What sort of Thai government educational services do visitors use?

I can't think of any.

In Australia for example there are free Government given English for Non English speaker courses given.

I now live on a one year renewable visa and if I wished to attend a German Course at the local community Centre it would be nice if I could on the same basis as a local student. I would be in a similar situation in Australia.

[bapoboy]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

What sort of Thai government educational services do visitors use?

I can't think of any.

95% of Thais don't pay customs duty, they don't have the money for foreign travel.

80% of Thais don't pay income tax.

Everyone pays VAT, Thai, foreigner or visitor.

Why not think a bit more before posting?

i dont think only 20% pepole pay tax, i read everyboy earning more then 15.000bath a month have to pay tax.

[gemini81]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

What sort of Thai government educational services do visitors use?

I can't think of any.

In Australia for example there are free Government given English for Non English speaker courses given.

I now live on a one year renewable visa and if I wished to attend a German Course at the local community Centre it would be nice if I could on the same basis as a local student. I would be in a similar situation in Australia.

Visitors who want to un-educate themselves would consult Thai Government offices...like their cultural course, or tourist police (farce).

No free programs if thats what you mean! Not like in Germany Australia nor the US educating immigrants.

[harrry]

I accept that if there is a large direct contribution to the cost of a service by the Government there are a case that different charges are reasonable for non residence but based on residence not race. These could be in areas such as Education where the cost is paid out of funds raised by Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duty etc all of which are paid by a resident but may not have been by a visitor. In the Casse of services such as reduced bus fares for categories of people such as students it is also reasonable to limit those to actual students in Australia. If there are discounts for buying several trips that discount should be available to everyone. In all other cases I have seen I would consider it total discrimination.

What sort of Thai government educational services do visitors use?

I can't think of any.

In Australia for example there are free Government given English for Non English speaker courses given.

I now live on a one year renewable visa and if I wished to attend a German Course at the local community Centre it would be nice if I could on the same basis as a local student. I would be in a similar situation in Australia.

Visitors who want to un-educate themselves would consult Thai Government offices...like their cultural course, or tourist police (farce).

No free programs if thats what you mean! Not like in Germany Australia nor the US educating immigrants.

My point is that anyone not a visitor would be able to receive education in Austalia at the same cost. The English course was given as an example of what a visitor might like to do. Anyone not a visitor gets education fee, in fact their children have to go. Charges at private education facilities are them same whether Australian citizen or a a non temporary visa holder. A non temporary visa would include all workers or people hwho are on married visas.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just imagine the uproar if a country like the US or UK increased prices for attractions, based on nationality of the buyer.. it would be a non-stater.

Based on skin color of customer is more accurate.

And please, let's not have all the numbnuts suggesting local pricing happens all over the world.

Thailand operates RACIAL pricing.

I have no problem with discounts for locals, I do have a problem with dual pricing based on racism.

Nationalistic but not racist.

[smotherb]

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting $25.00

Senior Resident Hunting $7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting $315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

How about "blacks pay double fee", which is essentially how Thai double pricing is done (but reversed).

Wow, a double whammy!

Impulse:

Do you think hunting fees may be local government regulated and perhaps, just perhaps; tax paying local citizens receive a discount because they do pay taxes locally?

Do you not agree, there is justification for dual pricing in situations where the lesser-price-based person accrues discount because they have provided services or assets to the owner of the entity being priced?

AnotherOneAmerican:

In all the Americanism you can muster, please provide an example of a "blacks pay double fee"

[gemini81]

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting $25.00

Senior Resident Hunting $7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting $315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

How about "blacks pay double fee", which is essentially how Thai double pricing is done (but reversed).

Wow, a double whammy!

Impulse:

Do you think hunting fees may be local government regulated and perhaps, just perhaps; tax paying local citizens receive a discount because they do pay taxes locally?

Do you not agree, there is justification for dual pricing in situations where the lesser-price-based person accrues discount because they have provided services or assets to the owner of the entity being priced?

AnotherOneAmerican:

In all the Americanism you can muster, please provide an example of a "blacks pay double fee"

He's saying if the shoes was on the other foot

Edited September 4, 2014 by gemini81

[AnotherOneAmerican]

AnotherOneAmerican:

In all the Americanism you can muster, please provide an example of a "blacks pay double fee"

Thai dual pricing is based on the skin color of the customer.

Not their nationality

Not their place of residence

In Thailand "whites pay 2x, 3x, 4x price" (or more).

If you look Asian, nobody questions you, if you keep your mouth shut, you pay Thai price.

(If you're Chinese with a Thai tour guide, you get stung cos the tour guide rats the group out for a cut of the take)

So if someone wants to compare hunting license fees in Alabama to CM zoo entrance fees, the correct comparison would be "blacks pay double".

The Thai dual pricing is a filthy racist practice.

Now if they were to base dual pricing on, DL address where every person entering could get a discount when they showed their local driving licence, no complaints from me at all, but that isn't what happens, white face pay more.

PS

I don't have a white face, can't pick me out from the locals, I am never asked for the higher price.

I keep my mouth shut, hand over the lower fee, and nobody hears my strange Thai accent.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[ianf]

One of the problems is that you don't know about the pricing differential until you get there, and it can be huge for families of 4 or 6 adults. I am not anti local discount pricing but the levels of difference can be alarming. I guess I am really saying the foreign prices are too high often not that they should not be applied.

And the best way of cheating the farang? Put the Thai prices in Thai numerals and the Farang prices in farang numerals. That way we won't know. So the other day whilst waiting for 30 minutes at Chiang Mai Zoo to get someone to give me permission to enter at the Thai price: I pointed out the different pricing to various foreign visitors. They were astounded by this trickery and one family walked away. This trick is used in numerous places. I personally don't care what happens elsewhere but I will not pay farang price. Especially in temples. As a Buddhist why should I pay more than Thai Buddhists? When I go shopping with my wife we find what we want and I then disappear. She buys at a lower price and then I reappear. On one occasion, I went back to the stall and the stall owner went wild when she found my wife had a foreign husband and demanded and extra 200 baht for a T shirt. In the end my wife got her money back because the stallholder would not give in and even called security. Too many dishonest people in Thailand ... too many thieves.

Edited September 4, 2014 by ianf

[Rorri]

whybother, on 04 Sept 2014 - 09:30, said:

thailand49, on 04 Sept 2014 - 09:25, said:

They only want to do something because although they are lying about tourist coming back they are not! This is a government and people who believe lying a little is o.k. just like excepting corruption.

As noted it is a mindset, even in the police station and hospital that charges you more is o.k., as recently as last month Bangkok/Hospital gave me a quote in writing for 15,000 for a procedure when i came back a week later to confirm the procedure the original doctor had overbook his day so I was told another doctor could do the procedure. After doing some paperwork I was told the charge will be 25,000, I pull out and gave her the slip of earlier quote and she/he came right out and say that is " Thai price " " you Falang " was was stunned knew and heard about it before never could confirm.

Here what is new... all smoke and mirror!

In Australia, it would cost me (as an Aus citizen) less for hospital visits than it would for foreigners.

That's only because it is subsidised by the government, your tax at work, but what you say does NOT stand true if you go to a private hospital, I think you are being a "little" unfair with your example. Entry prices, in Australia are the same for everyone, with exceptions for students, with concession cards, kids, I think under 12 and senior citizens. There is NOT difference between tourists and most Aussies, it is simply illegal.

[smotherb]

i just refuse to pay easy, the missus and kids thai so i wait for them to come out of wherever it is

You go in, and make the misses and kids wait outside.

After all, you are the one paying.

"Sorry, I don't have enough to pay for everyone at inflated pricing, just me."

Hmmm?

Let me ponder that logic—Pay a dual pricing fee AND deprive your Thai family of their right.

[smotherb]

AnotherOneAmerican:

In all the Americanism you can muster, please provide an example of a "blacks pay double fee"

Thai dual pricing is based on the skin color of the customer.

Not their nationality

Not their place of residence

In Thailand "whites pay 2x, 3x, 4x price" (or more).

If you look Asian, nobody questions you, if you keep your mouth shut, you pay Thai price.

(If you're Chinese with a Thai tour guide, you get stung cos the tour guide rats the group out for a cut of the take)

So if someone wants to compare hunting license fees in Alabama to CM zoo entrance fees, the correct comparison would be "blacks pay double".

The Thai dual pricing is a filthy racist practice.

Now if they were to base dual pricing on, DL address where every person entering could get a discount when they showed their local driving licence, no complaints from me at all, but that isn't what happens, white face pay more.

PS

I don't have a white face, can't pick me out from the locals, I am never asked for the higher price.

I keep my mouth shut, hand over the lower fee, and nobody hears my strange Thai accent.

A "whites pay double" example. Okay, so your are saying the reason is racist, but that is the way it is? Well, yes, that is what is being debated.

Edited September 4, 2014 by smotherb

[whybother]

That's only because it is subsidised by the government, your tax at work, but what you say does NOT stand true if you go to a private hospital, I think you are being a "little" unfair with your example. Entry prices, in Australia are the same for everyone, with exceptions for students, with concession cards, kids, I think under 12 and senior citizens. There is NOT difference between tourists and most Aussies, it is simply illegal.

Yes, I have been corrected on the "private hospital" aspect.

But in Australian government hospitals, tourists would pay more than locals because locals are subsidised.

[Dah fahrang]

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

Utter b*ll**ks!

[Ling Kae]

It's a con all this dual pricing. I refuse to go into any venue that charges me more "just because I am a farang". Before the family sets off on any journey I immediately remind everybody, if price not same I not go in, nothing in Thailand is worth this type of discrimination.

[smotherb]

Just imagine the uproar if a country like the US or UK increased prices for attractions, based on nationality of the buyer.. it would be a non-stater.

Based on skin color of customer is more accurate.

And please, let's not have all the numbnuts suggesting local pricing happens all over the world.

Thailand operates RACIAL pricing.

I have no problem with discounts for locals, I do have a problem with dual pricing based on racism.

Nationalistic but not racist.

It's not nationalistic if it based on skin color.

[mrtoad]

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

There really is no hope for this country when people with the same mindset as the prick above are in the majority

I don't think he is actually Thai, but I do agree he is a prick. At one point he was Indian, but that then changed.

[galoubet]

A Thai friend looks after her 10 year old granddaughter whose Thai mother and farang father have both abandoned her (although the father does send a little money from Europe on occasion).

The granddaughter is a Thai national. She has a Thai name (forename, family name and nickname). She speaks only Thai. She has a Thai ID card and a Thai passport. None of these cuts any ice with the officials at Thai monuments and parks where she is charged farang rates.

Why? Because she looks like a farang.

Work that one out!

I explained that in post #212

So your anecdote is more important than mine? Forgive me for posting.

[robblok]

They didn't mention the most glaring example of all: the aquarium at Centralworld. I guess they don't want to offend their advertisers.

I can still accept it for cultural places like temples and nature parks (i visit those). But the aquarium and a famous fishing-park (Bungsamran) where you pay 2000bt as a tourist and 400 as a Thai (if you have a Thai driving license you get in for 400) is real bad. I used to take my dad there often.. now we go a lot less. It used to be 1000 for foreigners now 2000.

For commercial ventures like that it should be prohibited.

Nice to see some common ground.

[thailand49]

They only want to do something because although they are lying about tourist coming back they are not! This is a government and people who believe lying a little is o.k. just like excepting corruption.

As noted it is a mindset, even in the police station and hospital that charges you more is o.k., as recently as last month Bangkok/Hospital gave me a quote in writing for 15,000 for a procedure when i came back a week later to confirm the procedure the original doctor had overbook his day so I was told another doctor could do the procedure. After doing some paperwork I was told the charge will be 25,000, I pull out and gave her the slip of earlier quote and she/he came right out and say that is " Thai price " " you Falang " was was stunned knew and heard about it before never could confirm.

Here what is new... all smoke and mirror!

In Australia, it would cost me (as an Aus citizen) less for hospital visits than it would for foreigners.

Of course it would because most likely you have some type of Insurance? If I get it right although we are talking about insurance you would have no problem paying more for everything, hotel, gas, food, etc... because you are a foreigner? I doubt you can be as consistent when it comes to other stuff?

[impulse]

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting $25.00

Senior Resident Hunting $7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting $315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

How about "blacks pay double fee", which is essentially how Thai double pricing is done (but reversed).

Wow, a double whammy!

Impulse:

Do you think hunting fees may be local government regulated and perhaps, just perhaps; tax paying local citizens receive a discount because they do pay taxes locally?

Do you not agree, there is justification for dual pricing in situations where the lesser-price-based person accrues discount because they have provided services or assets to the owner of the entity being priced?

I'm simply saying double pricing is not unique to Thailand. It's easy to show that one type of dual pricing is different or justified. But it's still dual pricing- with some hurdle (other than skin color) that can put you on the other side of the duality. In Thailand, my WP gets me into most places at local prices and a Thai passport would get me into the rest- if I wanted to go through the trouble of getting Thai citizenship- as several of my coworkers have done.

Racism and skin color has nothing to do with it. I have never seen an instance where a light skin Thai got charged more or less than a dark skinned Thai.

But the arguments here usually come down to one type of dual pricing isn't affecting me (and it's okay and perfectly justified), and another one that does affect me is just plain wrong.

From a business perspective, dual pricing makes perfect sense. If everyone paid the Thai price, the place (pick your spot, any spot) would be jammed packed and still go broke. If everyone had to pay the foreigner price, the local masses couldn't afford it, place would be pretty sparse, and still go broke. It's all about overhead absorption and incremental business.

Best example I have is Dornan's Spur Ranch Cabins in Moose, Wyoming- at the base of the Grand Tetons. An experience not to be missed (if it's still in business- it's been 15 years). When I had Wyoming plates, I got a significant discount to stay there. The reason- Wyoming residents were repeat customers, a lot of us staying many weekends per year. We stayed there in the high seasons (summer and ski season). We stayed there in the low seasons (spring and fall). We absorbed a lot of their overhead. Tourists stayed a few days or a week, and generally only in the summer or ski season- when the place would be full anyway. They paid full price. (In the days before Hotels.com)

I'm sure someone else can tell me why Dornan's dual pricing policy is vastly different than dual pricing in Thailand. And why their dual pricing was okay, but the dual pricing in Thailand is just plain wrong. Bottom line- it was dual pricing and discriminatory. And it happens all over- not just Thailand.

My pet peeve? Show up at a hotel desk with an Exxon or Siemens business card and your corporate rate will generally be half of what I pay- even when I lived out of hotels for 200+ days a year. Dual pricing based on employment. Fair? I think not. But the world doesn't guarantee fairness.

[whybother]

Of course it would because most likely you have some type of Insurance? If I get it right although we are talking about insurance you would have no problem paying more for everything, hotel, gas, food, etc... because you are a foreigner? I doubt you can be as consistent when it comes to other stuff?

I'm talking about medicare. Similar to Thailand's 30 baht health scheme.

[thailand49]

That's only because it is subsidised by the government, your tax at work, but what you say does NOT stand true if you go to a private hospital, I think you are being a "little" unfair with your example. Entry prices, in Australia are the same for everyone, with exceptions for students, with concession cards, kids, I think under 12 and senior citizens. There is NOT difference between tourists and most Aussies, it is simply illegal.

Yes, I have been corrected on the "private hospital" aspect.

But in Australian government hospitals, tourists would pay more than locals because locals are subsidised.

I would have no problem with a concept like this because locals live and pay into the system through forms of taxes? But in private hospitals like here at BHP, this is not the case you just pay more because the perception is you can! And the Thais using this hospital are not poor nor are they being sub!