Koh Tao's other little secret: police extortion

[sabaitoo]

Serialkiller/s has been on mind,

I had the crimescene photos evaluated by some experts and all agreed that the staging of Hannah as seen on one of the pictures in their part of the woods would indicate a possible serial killer. The amount of violence used in this murder is way beyond a first time offender for sure it is not just an occational rape & kill case, there is more to..whoever did this is prone to kill again

[Number 3]

my friend was murdered on this island this new year. after i did some research i feel there is a serial murder here. do any of you think this is the first death this year? do you know if someone dies on this island, it is COMMON practice to throw the body into the sea so the owner doesnt have to shut down the restaurant.? A serial killer lives on this island. ... my opinion.

So sorry for your loss.

I would contact Andrew Drummond about this matter as it's very relevant to his investigations of that whole area.

He may help you.

[Number 3]

Yes, you're dead right - "where there's a will there's a way" but in Koh Tao, apparently Koh Samui, and possibly the rest of Thailand, the will seems to be lacking! As I see it the WHOLE system is corrupt, and to change that as hgma says "Can't be done in a year", but how about starting off with the KNOWN sources of corruption e.g. the extortion monies already mentioned, also the sporadic spot checks and on the spot 300 baht fines for no helmet while driving a motor bike, but 500 baht if you want a receipt! Blatant! 2 queues, and guess which is the shortest?

The type of corruption you are describing is a 'convenience' that serves the community well.

It is when the greedy get involved in high stakes crime that things start to get a little - out of hand, and innocents get banged up. (Drugs, Gambling, Sex trade, Contract killing, etc.)

But of course the most damage is done at the very top, where cronyism and nepotism define big business and politcians alike (several are one and the same). There are also many, very rich generals here as we have recently discovered, so all sectors of the 'elite' seem to be happy. (0.1% of Thais own +50% of the nation's wealth).

The gap between rich and poor is greater here than most western countries, so perhaps it would be better to get money out of politics, than stopping a cop pocketing 200 baht and saving you the bother of getting ticketed 500 baht

How exactly does this type of corruption serve the community well?

It's self serving and ensures that the community is in debt to you. easier to control behaviour of the inhabitants as well. Look at Koh Tao. They all know who has done what but people are afraid to speak up for fear and because the risk potentially spoiling their own "Eco-system" that has had no surveillance from the outside world. Many families livelihoods are at stake and surely they re made aware of this fact each and every day at the moment. Poor buggars.

So people "are fraid to speak up for fear and because the risk potentially spoiling their own "Eco-system" that has had no surveillance from the outside world." Sounds exactly like it's a Mafia run island, and the Mafia style corruption has "served the community well"? Exactly the kind of situation that will bring the tourists back in droves! (NOT!)

a

It s a seriously flawed and broken system and yet the families are all still in place the pm publicly congratulates the police

And the tourists, by the look of the facebook pages are still lining up.

and spending money there which supports this whole system. It's appalling I agree.

To break this down with take a sledge hammer approach. Think prayuths the man to do it ?

[JacChang]

These migrant workers really have a hard life. I've looked at their income and cost of life, they barely have any thousands left after all the "fees". While they were home, they were promised of the higher salary and better life, but it's these fees that screws them up. Plus the upfront entrance cost, is usually loan with very high interest rate. Once they have decided to work in Thailand, they have already become slaves. They really do not earn. Earn --> Pay Repeat.

[pbeieio]

There is doubt.

There is always doubt here!

A Murderer is still free and talking about murdering two British tourists!

He is a retired policeman.

Not on that island.

Close to BKK

Same, same, different.

Short memories!

Shame on this country, shame on us for tolerating these <deleted>.

Shame on the Thai's.

I am happy to contribute to find the guilty.

I WILL PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS.

This would not be the first time for me (but that's another story)

Does anybody else care?

[MJP]

There is doubt.

There is always doubt here!

A Murderer is still free and talking about murdering two British tourists!

He is a retired policeman.

Not on that island.

Close to BKK

Same, same, different.

Short memories!

Shame on this country, shame on us for tolerating these <deleted>.

Shame on the Thai's.

I am happy to contribute to find the guilty.

I WILL PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS.

This would not be the first time for me (but that's another story)

Does anybody else care?

A lot of people care.

[fredlaw]

I'm sure glad everyone here on TV is so knowledgeable and sure about all the corruption here in Thailand. The TV members seem to know exactly how much is paid per month and to whom it's paid. I guess all these people who know this should go immediately to the new PM with all their proof and then be real heros to the entire world for cleaning up the country. Now if they are just talking, I would suggest they close their mouths and let the Thai gov clean up their (Thais) own country.

If it's so corrupt here, these really smart people should go home to their (own)place of birth. Jus sayen

[benalibina]

I'm sure glad everyone here on TV is so knowledgeable and sure about all the corruption here in Thailand. The TV members seem to know exactly how much is paid per month and to whom it's paid. I guess all these people who know this should go immediately to the new PM with all their proof and then be real heros to the entire world for cleaning up the country. Now if they are just talking, I would suggest they close their mouths and let the Thai gov clean up their (Thais) own country.

If it's so corrupt here, these really smart people should go home to their (own)place of birth. Jus sayen

Not if.....it is......corrupt. Beyond shame.....in fact ....shameless. And i never even have had a business, touristindustryrelated. Just a normal guy living in LOS with a family. So if i experienced it myself on a very very small level, how must it be where there is more money to be get.

Its a way of life which is accepted, by foreigners, who want to make money in the touristindustry, too.

[MJP]

I'm sure glad everyone here on TV is so knowledgeable and sure about all the corruption here in Thailand. The TV members seem to know exactly how much is paid per month and to whom it's paid. I guess all these people who know this should go immediately to the new PM with all their proof and then be real heros to the entire world for cleaning up the country. Now if they are just talking, I would suggest they close their mouths and let the Thai gov clean up their (Thais) own country.

If it's so corrupt here, these really smart people should go home to their (own)place of birth. Jus sayen

Not if.....it is......corrupt. Beyond shame.....in fact ....shameless. And i never even have had a business, touristindustryrelated. Just a normal guy living in LOS with a family. So if i experienced it myself on a very very small level, how must it be where there is more money to be get.

Its a way of life which is accepted, by foreigners, who want to make money in the touristindustry, too.

It's all so seedy. If the British authorities can carry out their own DNA tests from both the victims (I hope they have already) and the accused to confirm Thai police announcements, then there isn't an issue.

But will they?

[benalibina]

I'm sure glad everyone here on TV is so knowledgeable and sure about all the corruption here in Thailand. The TV members seem to know exactly how much is paid per month and to whom it's paid. I guess all these people who know this should go immediately to the new PM with all their proof and then be real heros to the entire world for cleaning up the country. Now if they are just talking, I would suggest they close their mouths and let the Thai gov clean up their (Thais) own country.

If it's so corrupt here, these really smart people should go home to their (own)place of birth. Jus sayen

Not if.....it is......corrupt. Beyond shame.....in fact ....shameless. And i never even have had a business, touristindustryrelated. Just a normal guy living in LOS with a family. So if i experienced it myself on a very very small level, how must it be where there is more money to be get.

Its a way of life which is accepted, by foreigners, who want to make money in the touristindustry, too.

It's all so seedy. If the British authorities can carry out their own DNA tests from both the victims (I hope they have already) and the accused to confirm Thai police announcements, then there isn't an issue.

But will they?

You know when the thais would be forced to act up ....more cases like this in a short while with British citizens...sad to say....this for, example, the British Embassy, Press and local MP's, to voice the reality and concern of how things really are/can be in Thailand. The pressure could then really be on Prayuth to start make a true reform. Cases like this must happen to Thai nationals as well who fall victim to local mobsters.

We, westerners, are fortunate to come from a different mindset where critical thinking and standing up for ourselves and our loved ones is ingrained in our system. Many of the locals and economical refugees, are not.

Fear fear....its holding us quiet in public as well....for each of us for different reasons.

Such a beautiful country .......pity....

[MJP]

I'm sure glad everyone here on TV is so knowledgeable and sure about all the corruption here in Thailand. The TV members seem to know exactly how much is paid per month and to whom it's paid. I guess all these people who know this should go immediately to the new PM with all their proof and then be real heros to the entire world for cleaning up the country. Now if they are just talking, I would suggest they close their mouths and let the Thai gov clean up their (Thais) own country.

If it's so corrupt here, these really smart people should go home to their (own)place of birth. Jus sayen

Not if.....it is......corrupt. Beyond shame.....in fact ....shameless. And i never even have had a business, touristindustryrelated. Just a normal guy living in LOS with a family. So if i experienced it myself on a very very small level, how must it be where there is more money to be get.

Its a way of life which is accepted, by foreigners, who want to make money in the touristindustry, too.

It's all so seedy. If the British authorities can carry out their own DNA tests from both the victims (I hope they have already) and the accused to confirm Thai police announcements, then there isn't an issue.

But will they?

You know when the thais would be forced to act up ....more cases like this in a short while with British citizens...sad to say....this for, example, the British Embassy, Press and local MP's, to voice the reality and concern of how things really are/can be in Thailand. The pressure could then really be on Prayuth to start make a true reform. Cases like this must happen to Thai nationals as well who fall victim to local mobsters.

We, westerners, are fortunate to come from a different mindset where critical thinking and standing up for ourselves and our loved ones is ingrained in our system. Many of the locals and economical refugees, are not.

Fear fear....its holding us quiet in public as well....for each of us for different reasons.

Such a beautiful country .......pity....

Poetically said.

[joecoolfrog]

Fredlaw

So are you saying that TV members should only post comments that paint Thailand in a favourable light ? Perhaps you should stick to reading TAT press releases, just saying !

[Cake Monster]

Unfortunately, this kind of BIB extortion ( and others ), are not confined to Koh Tao, and is rife throughout the country.

The whole terrible incident on Koh Tao really has opened a can of worms for the RTP, and they, and there peers, are well and truly in the International spotlight.

[fgmr]

When one visits or resides in a foreign country does one learn and try to understand the local culture before expounding opinions? Anyone who has read anything worthwhile about Thai history knows that the hierarchical and patronage system is embedded in Thai culture. Move around the rural areas and note the attitudes of people from different classes in the social scale. Do not expect it to change overnight because there is a spotlight on the issue of corruption.

To get things done it is usually "pay up or get lost". Why should we be surprised regarding payments made by foreign workers? What influence or patronage do they have ?

[ford8]

I naively considered a possible solution to endemic corruption.

Let the departments have 10% of their budget to divvy up among themselves

However after living in this part of the world, I realised that even if 90% was allotted there would be schemes to get it all.

Recently AlJazeera showed a documentary exposing the rip offs of contract workers from India and Bangladesh working

in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Unfortunately I believe that those being ripped off, would not hesitate to be on the other side.

"Little fleas have bigger fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, ad infinitum."

[mercman24]

can someone clarify a couple of points for me (too many pages on this subject) in reply to one poster (serial killer on the loose) did i not read some time ago there were 2 dna samples ? and to the poster " a policeman probably did it" w.t.f. on what assumption do you base this remark, ? ,and has to be more than one person for starters,

[ford8]

Unfortunately, this kind of BIB extortion ( and others ), are not confined to Koh Tao, and is rife throughout the country.

The whole terrible incident on Koh Tao really has opened a can of worms for the RTP, and they, and there peers, are well and truly in the International spotlight.

A storm in a tea cup, will soon be forgotten as with the never ending scandals.

[aussieinthailand]

This is happening On Koh Samui 100 fold. My company hires some Burmese worker and we do all the Legal work permits for them. But that being said I know of Many other companies that hire illegal Burmese worker and the Immigration on Samui take their fees for the illegal worker as well. I still do not understand why the authorities and Military are not coming to Koh Samui to clean it up as they have done on Phuket. And why they are turning a blind eye here, And it has nothing to do with Suthup... Koh Samui Needs Help... Help...

Kho Tao just a small Island but the the money made by the BIB is big, aprox 5,000 workers 2,000 of which have no papers so extorted 500 per month each,

at an average 1,000 have a motor cycle at an extorted rate of 500 per month, 1,500,000 just from migrant workers, so how about the slice they also get from all the bars, all the drug dealers, all the jet ski boys, and the mafia, really starts to add up huh,

Having lived and had several businesses in Samui, over several years and good friends both Thai and falang, business owners and Burmese workers are personal friends of ours also, often the Burmese workers have to pay the BIB regardless of legal papers or not,

And sorry to burst your bubble sscsamui, but yes Suthep has a hell of a lot to do with it, just think how much land he and his kids have on Samui Kho Punga and kho Tao. and it won't change in a hurry. as for Phuket, sorry agian mate but it still just as corrupt as ever.

[Greg Nixon]

In other words , the police are indirectly responsible for the murder of the two foreigners on Koh Tao. The extortion of the police is widespread.

I myself had to pay 50,000 THB to defend myself from another foreigner who paid the police 50,000 THB to put me in jail and deport me. Luckily my lawyer is neighbour and the wife blabbed about the bribe all over the neighbourhood. It took some doing for the lawyer to work around the police and the courts. My lawyer has many years of experience and she had to guarantee my behaviour for the next year. That is a lot easier than she believes since i never had an altercation as an adult before. I was simply defending myself from threats and an assault.

[jaywalker]

If they go to immigration it's 4000 baths for 4 months ,i heard ,which is even a worst rip off ,when you know their salary

Sorry, but the THB Thai BAHT is not a bath.

I WISH I could get 4,000 baths at Cupidy Massage Parlor........ 4,000 / 365 = .....almost 11 years of soapies....One every day for 10.95 years.

4,000 baths / 4 months = 33+ baths per day.

BATH = washing

BAHT = Thai Currency

[jaywalker]

In other words , the police are indirectly responsible for the murder of the two foreigners on Koh Tao. The extortion of the police is widespread.

I myself had to pay 50,000 THB to defend myself from another foreigner who paid the police 50,000 THB to put me in jail and deport me. Luckily my lawyer is neighbour and the wife blabbed about the bribe all over the neighbourhood. It took some doing for the lawyer to work around the police and the courts. My lawyer has many years of experience and she had to guarantee my behaviour for the next year. That is a lot easier than she believes since i never had an altercation as an adult before. I was simply defending myself from threats and an assault.

Yep, Been there done that myself Brother.

No deportation threatened against me, but had an idiot neighbor with farang husband, & they called the cops on me, AFTER the woman's katoey son was raising hell with me, as I was in MY front yard.

HE was in his hot shorts yelling at me because I had REPEATEDLY asked them nicely to shut up their yapping poodle at night.

The little "Block Captain" errr'...Momma called the cops, she called every neighbor around.....She was basically a kamnan. Her Dutch husband stayed out of it (nothing against Dutch folks).

She had "Big Influence" so I was told. I won't go into what I have fantasized about doing to her mutt.......& I love a good dog.

I also feel lower than whale shit if I bother my neighbors.

Fairly affluent neighborhood as well......TIT.

Here's my mutt. Her name is Lollipop....(the name she had when I got her...I'd have called her...something else). She's cool though & bothers NOBODY.

A bit off-topic with the dog, but the Kamnan scenario is the same.

I might add to this they didn't care that I had lived in Pattaya for 5 years longer than the goon-woman........She was Thai, I was farang. She had "Big Power".

As an ode to the the BIB that showed up though...He just mediated & did nothing except keep me from choking her & kept katoey-boy out of my yard.

2 weeks later my California neighbor poisoned the poodle.

Edited October 6, 2014 by jaywalker

[ford8]

It's no secret you've to pay millions to become an important police officer and it's also no secret this is very good investment - and that's not because of the 20K income you might get.

The police in Thailand is a totally corrupt mafia style organisation. It does more bad than good.

It's not just a Ko Tao thing. It's all over the country. The Thai police is a disgrace for Thailand.

It has always been like that, and the new dictator seems to be perfectly happy with the situation (I wonder why ...... ), because he didn't announce any serious police reform.

Years ago, my wife's younger brother was going through his teen years, about 17 at the time, doing a few stupid things, when I naively suggested to her that he might consider going to the "Police Academy" (STUPID ME thought they had such a thing).

She was aghast. "What? Are you stupid? It costs a LOT of money to be police!!!!!"

I'd have helped the kid out, and at the time I was making about 4 million baht a year, but she said there was no way we could afford it. I was thinking maybe 40-50 thousand baht & she said at least 2 million baht!

She said 2 million..who would you give the money to....her????

[jaywalker]

It's no secret you've to pay millions to become an important police officer and it's also no secret this is very good investment - and that's not because of the 20K income you might get.

The police in Thailand is a totally corrupt mafia style organisation. It does more bad than good.

It's not just a Ko Tao thing. It's all over the country. The Thai police is a disgrace for Thailand.

It has always been like that, and the new dictator seems to be perfectly happy with the situation (I wonder why ...... ), because he didn't announce any serious police reform.

Years ago, my wife's younger brother was going through his teen years, about 17 at the time, doing a few stupid things, when I naively suggested to her that he might consider going to the "Police Academy" (STUPID ME thought they had such a thing).

She was aghast. "What? Are you stupid? It costs a LOT of money to be police!!!!!"

I'd have helped the kid out, and at the time I was making about 4 million baht a year, but she said there was no way we could afford it. I was thinking maybe 40-50 thousand baht & she said at least 2 million baht!

She said 2 million..who would you give the money to....her????

I have given my wife millions upon millions of THB.

Been married to her for 13+ years buddy. 27 when I met her & 40 now. I was 34 & am 47 now. I got LUCKY AS HELL!!!! She's a good gal from Surin. I would not trade her for anything.

She's still HOT (to me).

We have a SUPER CUTE ha-sip ha-sip daughter that is 9.

She says jump & I say "How High?"

If there's an idiot in my marriage it's me.

I ain't never been with a woman long enough for my boots to get old....Till I saw her smile.

Edited October 6, 2014 by jaywalker

[sambum]

Yes, you're dead right - "where there's a will there's a way" but in Koh Tao, apparently Koh Samui, and possibly the rest of Thailand, the will seems to be lacking! As I see it the WHOLE system is corrupt, and to change that as hgma says "Can't be done in a year", but how about starting off with the KNOWN sources of corruption e.g. the extortion monies already mentioned, also the sporadic spot checks and on the spot 300 baht fines for no helmet while driving a motor bike, but 500 baht if you want a receipt! Blatant! 2 queues, and guess which is the shortest?

The type of corruption you are describing is a 'convenience' that serves the community well.

It is when the greedy get involved in high stakes crime that things start to get a little - out of hand, and innocents get banged up. (Drugs, Gambling, Sex trade, Contract killing, etc.)

But of course the most damage is done at the very top, where cronyism and nepotism define big business and politcians alike (several are one and the same). There are also many, very rich generals here as we have recently discovered, so all sectors of the 'elite' seem to be happy. (0.1% of Thais own +50% of the nation's wealth).

The gap between rich and poor is greater here than most western countries, so perhaps it would be better to get money out of politics, than stopping a cop pocketing 200 baht and saving you the bother of getting ticketed 500 baht

How exactly does this type of corruption serve the community well?

It's self serving and ensures that the community is in debt to you. easier to control behaviour of the inhabitants as well. Look at Koh Tao. They all know who has done what but people are afraid to speak up for fear and because the risk potentially spoiling their own "Eco-system" that has had no surveillance from the outside world. Many families livelihoods are at stake and surely they re made aware of this fact each and every day at the moment. Poor buggars.

So people "are fraid to speak up for fear and because the risk potentially spoiling their own "Eco-system" that has had no surveillance from the outside world." Sounds exactly like it's a Mafia run island, and the Mafia style corruption has "served the community well"? Exactly the kind of situation that will bring the tourists back in droves! (NOT!)

a

It s a seriously flawed and broken system and yet the families are all still in place the pm publicly congratulates the police

And the tourists, by the look of the facebook pages are still lining up.

and spending money there which supports this whole system. It's appalling I agree.

To break this down with take a sledge hammer approach. Think prayuths the man to do it ?

I think he's doing a far better job than his predecessor! He does seem to be sincere in his hopes for the country, and has made a good start in "cleaning up" certain areas. However, as a military man, he is not used to dealing with the public/media, and will understandably make comments/do things that can be misunderstood/taken out of context .( publicly congratulates the police, and criticising the wearing of bikinis!) I admire the fact that he is willing to apologise for these when he realises that maybe things could have been handled/said differently - he is on a learning curve, and as such should be given a little time to do just that.

[ParadiseLost]

I think he's doing a far better job than his predecessor! He does seem to be sincere in his hopes for the country, and has made a good start in "cleaning up" certain areas. However, as a military man, he is not used to dealing with the public/media, and will understandably make comments/do things that can be misunderstood/taken out of context .( publicly congratulates the police, and criticising the wearing of bikinis!) I admire the fact that he is willing to apologise for these when he realises that maybe things could have been handled/said differently - he is on a learning curve, and as such should be given a little time to do just that.

Good comments. You could add that he may have been fed the same lies and deceit everyone else was...

Edited October 6, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[sambum]

I think he's doing a far better job than his predecessor! He does seem to be sincere in his hopes for the country, and has made a good start in "cleaning up" certain areas. However, as a military man, he is not used to dealing with the public/media, and will understandably make comments/do things that can be misunderstood/taken out of context .( publicly congratulates the police, and criticising the wearing of bikinis!) I admire the fact that he is willing to apologise for these when he realises that maybe things could have been handled/said differently - he is on a learning curve, and as such should be given a little time to do just that.

Good comments. You could add that he may have been fed the same lies and deceit everyone else was...

Thank you! And God/Buddha help anyone who is found out to have fed him the lies and deceit! He is after all a military man, and I think 2 or 3 days in the guardhouse peeling spuds/cooking rice would be the least of their problems!

[diehard60]

It is too late. tha damage is done to that area.

[benalibina]

It is too late. tha damage is done to that area.

Thats the pity.....the majority of the good always suffer from the few bad.....if they get together to make a stance against the bad.......change can happen.....

[German Viking]

Hardly a secret, Koh Tao's reputation is now known worldwide for its mafia and corruption after the sham investigation by The BIB.

I doubt 99% of tourists have a clue how far police extortion goes in Thailand.

Anyone knows how many cops/immigration officials partage the monthly fees from the Myanmar workers?

500Bx2000 workers = 1 million B/month.....

Hey Good General, wake up!

+ probably 1 Mill for riding Motorbikes without Thai license

[eldragon]

Reform has nothing to do with Change, so much is clear.

Since the start with Change will need a complete lockdown on law enforcement, in order to change the existing force into a normal functioning democratic police force.

Can't be done in a year!

sure about that?

Quote wikipedia: "In 2005. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili fired "the entire traffic police force" of the Georgian National Police due to corruption,[2] numbering around 30,000 police officers.[3]

A new force was built around new recruits.[2]The United States State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law-Enforcement Affairs has provided assistance to the training efforts.[4] Patruli was first introduced in the summer of 2005 replacing the traffic police, which were accused of corruption.[5]"

currently there are 42,000 serving police officers

source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Georgia_(country)

where there is a will there is a way.

But there's no will here.