Three Myanmar witnesses are to testify in advance on Koh Tao murder case

[SteveFong]

we may never know how many potential scapegoats were beaten, after all, they had 100 RTP on location, they could have been beating anywhere from 40-50 an hour

[SICHONSTEVE]

So this was the group that got scalded with boiling water now drafted in after more torture to replace Maung Maung.

What torture??

Evidence!!!

[ToddinChonburi]

You missed a big one here, The accussed are on suicide watch ? sounds like they are going to mysteriesly die in prison. Case closed.

[rickirs]

Does the identification of three witnesses mean the police will have to redo their re-enactment of the crime so we can see where the witnesses were relative to the crime scene. Or maybe they were witnesses to statements made by the accussed after the murders?

[rickirs]

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I don't think the defendants defense team has been finalized yet so how can they call witnesses early? Who is going to cross examine these people? (If there is such a thing in Thailand?)

Still so many questions with so few credible answers!

My thoughts exactly as soon as I read this.

Does anyone know whether cross-examination is part of the court procedure in Thailand?

If so, I would assume the defence lawyers would have the right to call the witnesses at any time during the trial regardless of their original testimony.

But that's just assumption.

Of course there's no jury, just a judge, and that is unfortunate as one person can be "manipulated" easier than twelve.

It could be there's something lost in translation and it is the Thai equivalent of a deposition but yet another press release asks more questions, just like the suicide risk press release today.

PS With all the Burmese in Court, there could be a lucrative payday for the official pancake selling translator!

If the defendents plead guilty before the court, wouldn't there be no need of a cross-examination or witness testimony? The "defence" attorneys would only work to avoid the death penalty, not to plead their innocence. Thailand prosecutors like to load up on the defendent with "hard" evidence so that they will confess and plead guilty, usually in exchange for mitigated sentences.

[JOC]

What concerns me more now is that the RTP have lost so much face in this case, that dna could be planted into any dna samples. RTP cannot be wrong anymore.

With all the bruises these guys have on their bodies, it is easy to swab here and there and add it to the evidence. Just sayin'.

Have you seen these bruises??

If there are bruises then I think it likely that they were self afflicted!!

So according to you, apart from being coldblooded murderers, they are masochists as well??

Spending their last days alive hurting themselves??

Please Mr SS take your dog for a very long walk, and stay away from the keyboard for a week or two!

[SICHONSTEVE]

What concerns me more now is that the RTP have lost so much face in this case, that dna could be planted into any dna samples. RTP cannot be wrong anymore.

With all the bruises these guys have on their bodies, it is easy to swab here and there and add it to the evidence. Just sayin'.

Have you seen these bruises??

If there are bruises then I think it likely that they were self afflicted!!

So according to you, apart from being coldblooded murderers, they are masochists as well??

Spending their last days alive hurting themselves??

Please Mr SS take your dog for a very long walk, and stay away from the keyboard for a week or two!

I don't believe they have any bruises plus the last bit was slightly tongue in cheek but it seemed to fly over your head.

On a more serious note - who has seen these bruises and burns? Normally, if someone is tortured they can't wait to take photos and show the world, which is exactly what happens (without exception)!!

I don't believe in ghosts as I have never seen one and I don't believe in anything that is easily proven but never sees the light of day when challenged.

Edited October 10, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[brucec64]

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I don't think the defendants defense team has been finalized yet so how can they call witnesses early? Who is going to cross examine these people? (If there is such a thing in Thailand?)

Still so many questions with so few credible answers!

My thoughts exactly as soon as I read this.

Does anyone know whether cross-examination is part of the court procedure in Thailand?

If so, I would assume the defence lawyers would have the right to call the witnesses at any time during the trial regardless of their original testimony.

But that's just assumption.

Of course there's no jury, just a judge, and that is unfortunate as one person can be "manipulated" easier than twelve.

It could be there's something lost in translation and it is the Thai equivalent of a deposition but yet another press release asks more questions, just like the suicide risk press release today.

PS With all the Burmese in Court, there could be a lucrative payday for the official pancake selling translator!

If the defendents plead guilty before the court, wouldn't there be no need of a cross-examination or witness testimony? The "defence" attorneys would only work to avoid the death penalty, not to plead their innocence. Thailand prosecutors like to load up on the defendent with "hard" evidence so that they will confess and plead guilty, usually in exchange for mitigated sentences.

For a case with a penalty greater than 10 years, the prosecutor will still have to present evidence. Usually, a guilty plea causes the death penalty to be converted to a life sentence.

http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/countries/Thailand_Legal_system.pdf

If you plead guilty, and the offence carries a sentence of less than five years imprisonment, the court does not have to hear any further evidence and can give its judgment. If the crime carries a sentence of more than five years imprisonment, then the court should listen to the prosecution's evidence until it is satisfied that you are guilty or not guilty. A guilty plea can reduce the length of the sentence.

[belg]

so the suicide is already arranged, now suddenly they have 3 new witnesses ?

[toonsai]

http://1clicknews.com/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-son-murdered-and-his-killing-covered-up-to-protect-tourism/

BOYCOT KOH TAO!

Not only Koh Tao (renamed Koh Rupt) but THAILAND. It is exactly the same everywhere. Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and so on and so on... Just name it. The whole country is so deeply corrupted that there is not anymore a single inch of Moral. I have seen the country going down the hill for the last 10 years. No where you can see some improvements. Just and only going south. More craps, more traps, more rip off, more deaths, more drama.

Most of Thai people know about this and are also tired of the RTP-Mafia. This is going way too far.

Unfortunately it is pretty clear now that the good PM General will not clean or change anything. Just good words, blah blah and cosmetics.

Thailand becomes really a tourist trap. I love Thailand but again, it is going way too far in so many areas. I wish they learn some lessons. To do this, tourists must start to understand that behind the nice smiles and beaches, there are piles of lies, BS and garbages.

[SteveFong]

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I don't think the defendants defense team has been finalized yet so how can they call witnesses early? Who is going to cross examine these people? (If there is such a thing in Thailand?)

Still so many questions with so few credible answers!

My thoughts exactly as soon as I read this.

Does anyone know whether cross-examination is part of the court procedure in Thailand?

If so, I would assume the defence lawyers would have the right to call the witnesses at any time during the trial regardless of their original testimony.

But that's just assumption.

Of course there's no jury, just a judge, and that is unfortunate as one person can be "manipulated" easier than twelve.

It could be there's something lost in translation and it is the Thai equivalent of a deposition but yet another press release asks more questions, just like the suicide risk press release today.

PS With all the Burmese in Court, there could be a lucrative payday for the official pancake selling translator!

If the defendents plead guilty before the court, wouldn't there be no need of a cross-examination or witness testimony? The "defence" attorneys would only work to avoid the death penalty, not to plead their innocence. Thailand prosecutors like to load up on the defendent with "hard" evidence so that they will confess and plead guilty, usually in exchange for mitigated sentences.

That was clearly the plan of the RTP and the headman

They didn't count on the Internet, Facebook, Thai Visa and real reporting

Sean McAnna bringing in the reporters was a major turning point,

we shouldnt discount that

[NeverSure]

I've seen a mix of comments here. I don't know Thai law.

England, OZ and the US have similar legal systems, all based on English law.

There would be a grand jury hearing where no witnesses are called. The accuser, perhaps the prosecuting attorney but here the police, would meet before a grand jury and present the evidence. The grand jury (of ordinary citizens) would declare whether there was enough evidence to go to trial.

Here it seems the prosecutor is acting as the grand jury and has sent the case back to the police for more or better evidence.

At a grand jury hearing there are no witnesses. This is the accuser telling what he has, including available witnesses, under oath.

There is also a period of "discovery." Both parties may request (demand) discovery and in this case DNA would be #1. At a discovery hearing, both attorneys and the accused or witness would be present. The questions would be verbal under oath. Or, the request could be in writing, filed with the court and the opposing attorney could object requiring a ruling from the judge, or simply comply.

Once all discovery and the grand jury hearing was complete, if the grand jury voted for a trial, there would be one. If the grand jury voted that there wasn't enough evidence for a trial, the suspect would be released.

There is no such thing as double jeopardy, so if either the grand jury or the jury at trial released the suspect, he'd be in the clear.

Here, with the prosecutor acting as the grand jury, there is double jeopardy. He tossed the 800 page case but the suspects aren't free. The police have the opportunity to gather more "evidence."

Edited October 10, 2014 by NeverSure

[SteveFong]

more evidence?

torture more young Burmese, so they have a flow of new "witnesses?"

[MJP]

NeverSure, my thoughts are the judge sent it back not wanting the poison chalice.

[SteveFong]

The case has gone International

once CNN runs the story,

it will grow like a mushroom cloud

[toonsai]

Is there any moral authority in Thailand that can stop the daily flow of lies, garbage, insults and insanities by the RTP??? They reach new lows every single day. Even the good General is completely intoxicated. This is really scary. For the victims, their families, the tourists and the whole country.

The Authority has still a huge influence on Thais daily life, but for a few years already he stopped interfering and moderating. Incompetent people are driving the country down. This tragedy is yet another example. And unfortunately, based on what we see today, we can easily question the country outlook.

[salween]

The case has gone International

once CNN runs the story,

it will grow like a mushroom cloud

Is this the CNN story you're referring to? Been out for awhile now today.

[SteveFong]

I may be behind, but I read earlier today, that CNN was trying to contact both the RTP and the Myammar Embassy and were ignored.

if this is old, my bad

[mjj]

So does that make it 6 Burmese involved in the murder and not one of them thought to raise an alarm and all went along with the horrific acts? No arguements, nothing. Then they all decide to stay on the island hoping they would get away with it knowing that Burmese are the first accused............er...........ok....?

[SteveFong]

those to alleged suspects couldnt look more docile to me

one of them, looks like a 5th grader

[JLCrab]

As I posted elsewhere.

Yesterday the prosecutor sent the police file back to them :

Posted Yesterday, 05:51

KOH TAO MURDER REPORT

Prosecutors seek changes

This will mean that the prosecutor has not as yet filed a case with the court.

So how can witnesses be heard in a case that is not as yet before the court ?

The (Thailand) Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No.20), B.E.2542

“Section 273 bis. Before a criminal case shall be indicted in a court, if there is a reasonable ground to believe that the witness, who must be brought to give testimony in the future, has to travel out of the Kingdom, has no definite residence, or lives far away from the trial court, or there may be any other conditions which may cause difficulties in bringing the witness to testify in the future, the public prosecutor, by himself or by receiving the application from the victim or inquiry official, may file an application, specifying all the acts allegedly committed by the offender, to the court in order that the court shall issue the order to examine such witness forthwith. When the court received such application, the court shall examine such witness immediately. In the process, the offender may cross-examine or appoint the counsel to cross-examine such witness. (continues)

[Cake Monster]

I cannot really understand why the Myanmar Government are not being pro-active to protect the rights of their citizens in this case.

Very strange

[JLCrab]

I cannot really understand why the Myanmar Government are not being pro-active to protect the rights of their citizens in this case.

Very strange

Their citizens are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand wherein they made an illegal entry.

BTW this from the website UK Embassy in Bangkok:

What the FCO and British consulate can’t do

The FCO and British consulate won’t be able to:

• get someone out of prison or detention
• help someone get special treatment
• offer legal advice, start legal proceedings or investigate a crime

Edited October 11, 2014 by JLCrab

[canuckamuck]

I cannot really understand why the Myanmar Government are not being pro-active to protect the rights of their citizens in this case.

Very strange

That was tongue in cheek right? That's why emoticons are sometimes necessary.

[givenall]

btw,

is this a new form of incrimination?

They need to get the story right. Enough embarrassing situation for all to to PM office.

[kingalfred]

Amazing the foreigners who come to thailand and believe that if they are unlawfully killed there will be a thorough,balanced,detailed investigation. The country doesnt carry out such for its own folk so why do you think your family will get anything different?

[canuckamuck]

Amazing the foreigners who come to thailand and believe that if they are unlawfully killed there will be a thorough,balanced,detailed investigation. The country doesnt carry out such for its own folk so why do you think your family will get anything different?

I think the main complaint is blaming it on the people who can't defend themselves and protecting the killers. That mostly doesn't happen where we come from.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I cannot really understand why the Myanmar Government are not being pro-active to protect the rights of their citizens in this case.

Very strange

In order to conserve diplomatic relations.

I appreciate that two of their citizens are being blamed for something that people are claiming they have been made scape goats for, but two countries are not going to have a diplomatic row over something that is (in the relative scheme of things) comparatively minor.

After all, if they are proved guilty beyond doubt (not sure that this can be realised now) then it will all die down and be forgotten as they face their deserved fate for committing such a heinous crime . Similarly, if they are found to be innocent then it will be forgotten in no time as Thai justice will have been seen to have been done.

Edited October 11, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[bertty]

I don't think the defendants defense team has been finalized yet so how can they call witnesses early? Who is going to cross examine these people? (If there is such a thing in Thailand?)

Still so many questions with so few credible answers!

My thoughts exactly as soon as I read this.

Does anyone know whether cross-examination is part of the court procedure in Thailand?

If so, I would assume the defence lawyers would have the right to call the witnesses at any time during the trial regardless of their original testimony.

But that's just assumption.

Of course there's no jury, just a judge, and that is unfortunate as one person can be "manipulated" easier than twelve.

It could be there's something lost in translation and it is the Thai equivalent of a deposition but yet another press release asks more questions, just like the suicide risk press release today.

PS With all the Burmese in Court, there could be a lucrative payday for the official pancake selling translator!

The pancake seller will never be seen or heard of again once this case is over ( unless he gets charged with translating lies, Theres a way out BIB)

He will keep the fishes fed for a long time.

[SteveFong]

I cannot really understand why the Myanmar Government are not being pro-active to protect the rights of their citizens in this case.

Very strange

they are, but quite frankly, there are far too many threads on TV now following this case that it is beginning to really eat up hours, and, my eye sight