Farang/baksida

[Totster]

Well recommended by whom? The self congratulatory tone is wholly inappropriate.You may have got a laugh out of this set of taxi drivers with your bargirl slang but you clearly have no idea of how to behave in Thailand.

To my understaning Bak Ham Noi is generally used as an endeering term to boy toddlers and is normally positive not derrogative.

Thats correct....

It seems that Mr " I know how to behave in Thailand " has never stepped outside of Pattaya/Bangkok and enjoyed the beautiful region of Isaan

totster

[Heng]

For a lot of locals, the standard common use term to refer to those of African descent is 'negro.' To a lot of black folks nowadays, it's not a positive sounding word when used by anyone who isn't black. Nevertheless, just because it's insulting to you, it doesn't mean the locals are trying to insult you.

[Arsenal]

Well recommended by whom? The self congratulatory tone is wholly inappropriate.You may have got a laugh out of this set of taxi drivers with your bargirl slang but you clearly have no idea of how to behave in Thailand.

The self superiority tone is wholly inappropriate. You seem to be familiar with the lingo....... (making the connection with bar girls. )

For all u guys living in Isaan and Married there ( not me ) , speaking Isaan according to this nut (Asshoel..oopps typo - Arsenal ) means your mrs. is automatically a bargirl. To my understaning Bak Ham Noi is generally used as an endeering term to boy toddlers and is normally positive not derrogative.

It's difficult to disentangle the meaning from such a semi literate and muddled post.My point was that from a variety of viewpoints it does not make sense to attempt a rejoinder to "baksida" or similar unless you are absolutely fluent in Thai and understand all its nuances.In this instance the poster appears to be struggling with English, so we can safely conclude he has a long road to travel!

More importantly when Thais shout out to a farang, it is almost always entirely good natured.Smile, say nothing and walk on.If you come from a background (British "working" class etc) where masculinity is defined by a willingness to be aggressive, try and curb those instincts at least while you are in Thailand.

[bannork]

Arsenal wouldn't be related to Cassandra in any form would he/she? They both seem to have a similarly condescending trait running through their posts.

[Maigo6]

.If you come from a background (British "working" class etc) where masculinity is defined by a willingness to be aggressive, try and curb those instincts at least while you are in Thailand.

Haha.....Yes Arsenal, you're right, Brits are aggressive, well..................they act that way till they get challenged, then it's usually.....

"I'm Sorry mate, I was only joking, let me buy you a beer "

From the posters that have obviously been around Thailand for a while, I can't understand advocating antagonising a group of Thai guys, I wouldn't.

In Thailand, most Thais that ever shout something out are just being friendly, unlike the UK where everything is a signal for immediate confrontation.

[chonabot]

Please tell me I am wrong to react the way I did ?

Also I am worried the way that my eldest stayed clear of the action in a way that brought memories of Kenny Everett to me...

It is not nice to call people names. regardless of country or origin , I will never accept this, I will never walk away.

But how would you feel if some of these bozos had pulled a knife and your wife got stabbed to death in the melee? That's what I'd be worried about. You can never tell where violence will end.

True , thankfully I was carrying a .357 just in case.

[Insight]

Arsenal? Boris?

Similar writing style and attitude.

/edit - Typo.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Insight

[Lacoste]

thankfully I was carrying a .357 just in case.

I actualy believed you until you came out with this.

[chonabot]

thankfully I was carrying a .357 just in case.

I actualy believed you until you came out with this.

That's what the kid said .....

Seriously though these incidents are common enough in the UK without having to make them up.

[jing jing]

As someone wiser than I once said, "discretion is the better part of valor." I've no need to prove my masculinity or sharp wit to strange Thai men and their groups of friends. Those who choose to do so are, in my opinion, instead demonstrating their own insecurity and a lack of common sense. I come from a place where confrontations and chest thumping often end in gunplay and quite possibly a trip to the morgue. Personally I don't know enough about the subtleties of colloquial Thai/Issan/Lao/Khmer language to conjure up the "appropriate" response, so I prefer to ignore it. So far this hasn't yet resulted in being assaulted by Thai dudes with crowbars, broken bottles, or anything like that but if it had, I'd probably reevaluate my attitude and consider changing it to something a bit more conducive to my own well being... if only for my family's sake.

[skippybangkok]

FYI - The baksida comment was made in jest, the "bak ham noi" was also a return in jest. It seems the fun of it went over the head of Asenine

[BambinA]

""bak ham noi" " - as i know ,it just likes older people call younger boys ,for adorable .It seems like "kid /boy/son" (not sure im not from issanland)

[jing jing]

""bak ham noi" " - as i know ,it just likes older people call younger boys ,for adorable .It seems like "kid /boy/son" (not sure im not from issanland)

So he called a grown man an adorable young boy? Excellent idea... back in my native land, in the wrong neighborhood, call a black man a boy in front of his friends and your next of kin may not even recognize your remains. It's a good thing Thai people are generally so tolerant, because an offhanded remark that gets misunderstood could have some very severe repercussions in many parts of the world, regardless of what a big macho man you think you are.

[bannork]

""bak ham noi" " - as i know ,it just likes older people call younger boys ,for adorable .It seems like "kid /boy/son" (not sure im not from issanland)

So he called a grown man an adorable young boy? Excellent idea... back in my native land, in the wrong neighborhood, call a black man a boy in front of his friends and your next of kin may not even recognize your remains. It's a good thing Thai people are generally so tolerant, because an offhanded remark that gets misunderstood could have some very severe repercussions in many parts of the world, regardless of what a big macho man you think you are.

Right on Jing jing, I don't think it's a good idea to openly belittle a heckler even if you're seething inside, better to reply in Lao to show him you understood what he said, that in itself will cause him to either shut up or even start to like you. Something like sabaii dee bor hed eeyang- how are you, what are you up to\doing?

[raybkk]

Here's something I wrote about the word "farang" in my now-defunct blog:

"...the word farang (usually pronounced falang), which so many Westerners think is some kind of insult or racist slur. Well, it isn't. But Thais do have a vague way of speaking and they do tend to pigeonhole people into groups, such as farang, khaek (people from the Middle East or India), jeen or negro.

As a noun, farang just means a Caucasian foreigner. As an adjective it means anything Western. Thais talk about farang music, farang language and farang "style" all the time.

In English it isn't at all polite to refer to someone by their ethnic group. You couldn't say, "This negro's a good guy." But in Thai it's a bit different. For example, I once came across some colleagues who were counting the sticky labels in a box of paper to be used on a dot-matrix printer. I couldn't imagine why they would be doing this, and when they caught the look of amazement on my face they said, "Farang ngong!" - the foreigner's confused. What they meant was that because I was a foreigner, I couldn't guess why they would be doing it.

Another time I was at dinner with some colleagues and some kind of leaf cooked tempura-style was served. I'd never had it before, but it was delicious so someone ordered some more saying, "Farang chawp!" - the foreigner likes it. What he meant was that he was surprised that a foreigner would like this weird Thai food. So the use of the word farang in front of a farang isn't rude or disrespectful at all and there's no point in getting paranoid or uptight about it. That's just the way it is."

On the very rare occasions I hear the old "You! You!" or "Farang!" in the street, I just ignore it. I don't see the point in getting confrontational and obliging someone who's just trying to get a reaction out of me.

Excuse me..if you would do some research you will know that the 21st century Thai name for western foreigners is Farang, an abbreviation of the original Farangse - the Thai word for the French (François in French). The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

[skippybangkok]

Bambina - Thats my understanding of it, and it seems that there are some very boaring people around who just dont get the concept. Must be really fun to live at their places..... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Would recommend a round of Prozac for sum

[camerata]

The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

What's your source for this?

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

Well, my point was that Thais don't mean it as an insult and today it just means Caucasian. If it had a derogatory meaning in the past - which I seriously doubt - it's irrelevant now. That farang is derived from farangset which is derived from the Thai pronunciation of Francais has been explained by Bangkok Post columnist "Ayu Mongkol," Marvin Brown (AUA) and others, but the usual explanation is that French people were among the first foreigners in Thailand so Thais initially called all foreigners "Francais." But no one knows the origin of the word for sure. French missionaries trying to overthrow the king sounds a bit wild to me.

Edited July 28, 2006 by camerata

[meadish_sweetball]

Here's something I wrote about the word "farang" in my now-defunct blog:

"...the word farang (usually pronounced falang), which so many Westerners think is some kind of insult or racist slur. Well, it isn't. But Thais do have a vague way of speaking and they do tend to pigeonhole people into groups, such as farang, khaek (people from the Middle East or India), jeen or negro.

As a noun, farang just means a Caucasian foreigner. As an adjective it means anything Western. Thais talk about farang music, farang language and farang "style" all the time.

In English it isn't at all polite to refer to someone by their ethnic group. You couldn't say, "This negro's a good guy." But in Thai it's a bit different. For example, I once came across some colleagues who were counting the sticky labels in a box of paper to be used on a dot-matrix printer. I couldn't imagine why they would be doing this, and when they caught the look of amazement on my face they said, "Farang ngong!" - the foreigner's confused. What they meant was that because I was a foreigner, I couldn't guess why they would be doing it.

Another time I was at dinner with some colleagues and some kind of leaf cooked tempura-style was served. I'd never had it before, but it was delicious so someone ordered some more saying, "Farang chawp!" - the foreigner likes it. What he meant was that he was surprised that a foreigner would like this weird Thai food. So the use of the word farang in front of a farang isn't rude or disrespectful at all and there's no point in getting paranoid or uptight about it. That's just the way it is."

On the very rare occasions I hear the old "You! You!" or "Farang!" in the street, I just ignore it. I don't see the point in getting confrontational and obliging someone who's just trying to get a reaction out of me.

Excuse me..if you would do some research you will know that the 21st century Thai name for western foreigners is Farang, an abbreviation of the original Farangse - the Thai word for the French (François in French). The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

François in French

It's 'Français'. François is a male name.

an abbreviation of the original Farangse - the Thai word for the French

I am not disputing that the word ฝรั่งเศส /faràngsèed/ means 'French' in Thai, but ฝรั่ง /faràng/ is most likely not an abbreviation of this word because it has been recorded in use long before the Thais came into contact with the French. If you want to know more about this, have a look here.

[tourleadersi]

I thought 'farang' was an abreviation for that lengthy Thai word so often heard when out and about 'yousohandsumfarangmanwhereyougo?'

[camerata]

I am not disputing that the word ฝรั่งเศส /faràngsèed/ means 'French' in Thai, but ฝรั่ง /faràng/ is most likely not an abbreviation of this word because it has been recorded in use long before the Thais came into contact with the French. If you want to know more about this, have a look here.

Amazing. That old FAQ from the early soc.culture.thai days is still on the net. Tragically, Gwynn Williams died of stomach cancer in Bangkok when he was fairly young.

[Rdrokit]

Ok, I am new around here and will not be moving to Thailand full time till January but what if you just similed, gave a little wai and walked away when someone calls you a bad name. Would that be a good response?

[Totster]

Ok, I am new around here and will not be moving to Thailand full time till January but what if you just similed, gave a little wai and walked away when someone calls you a bad name. Would that be a good response?

Wouldn't do the Wai..

totster

Edited July 28, 2006 by Totster

[sbk]

Rdrokit, I think the irony of it would go over their heads.

And, like any word, farang can be used in a negative way. And when shouted at you by an adult male, most likely does, as the shouting is already rude behavior. From a little kid, well, obviously not.

[Rdrokit]

Rdrokit, I think the irony of it would go over their heads.

And, like any word, farang can be used in a negative way. And when shouted at you by an adult male, most likely does, as the shouting is already rude behavior. From a little kid, well, obviously not.

Thank sbk. It probably would go over their head.

[raybkk]

The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

What's your source for this?

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

Well, my point was that Thais don't mean it as an insult and today it just means Caucasian. If it had a derogatory meaning in the past - which I seriously doubt - it's irrelevant now. That farang is derived from farangset which is derived from the Thai pronunciation of Francais has been explained by Bangkok Post columnist "Ayu Mongkol," Marvin Brown (AUA) and others, but the usual explanation is that French people were among the first foreigners in Thailand so Thais initially called all foreigners "Francais." But no one knows the origin of the word for sure. French missionaries trying to overthrow the king sounds a bit wild to me.

A very short history lesson: In the seventeenth Century the French first came into contact with Thailand during the reign of King Narai. There had been a Thai mission to France in that time, because King Narai wanted to make contact with the West, and the fame of King Louis XIV had even reached old Siam. So King Narai chose France for his first European mission. Later a French mission came to Thailand. This French mission had as its main purpose to convert the Thais to Christianity, but -luckily- they never succeeded in that, as we all know.

Now back to the present time. As I said, you will hear the word "falang" quite a lot while in Thailand. It is not a word with a bad or offending meaning. Everybody uses it there and you do not have to feel offended about it. (By the way for people form India they have a different word: "kaek").

[h90]

It alway riles me when I walk past a troop of minimum wage motorcycle boys, or other assorted monkeys who mutter Baksida, Farang doesn't bother me, we all know they're pretty dumb.

"Kwai Thai" is my usual comeback, but what's the point lowering yourself to the level of a chimp.

Jesus, great attitude ...........If you was an Asian guy in UK and was that confrontational with a group of English guys, I doubt you would walk away unharmed.

Thais are very tolerant of Farangs.

Considering the attitudes ( like yours ) expressed by many Farangs in Thailand, I find Thai people unbelievably tolerant.

Monkeys? We all know they're pretty dumb ?

If you got a real beating for calling them Kwai Thai, I would have said it was you that was dumb for pissin' off a group of Thai guys.

Anyway, from one Farang to another, Baksida would never bother me, but I'm sure being called a Monkey or a Buffalo might be slightly offensive.

calling someone passing the street farang is also for Thailand unpolite and "normal" thai people see them as kwai.

My wife is calling such people either Kwai Isaan (if they come from Isaan or not) or A-Lao.

[Maigo6]

Thank sbk. It probably would go over their head.

For a guy that's moving to Thailand in January, maybe you should cut the Thais a break.

They are tolerant beyond belief, especially when faced with the Farang attitude that Thai people are inferior, and they do Thailand a favour by living there.

An attitude all too common in the Farang community.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

My wife is calling such people either Kwai Isaan (if they come from Isaan or not).

Errrrr..............

That's a really intelligent approach.

[raybkk]

The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

What's your source for this?

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

Well, my point was that Thais don't mean it as an insult and today it just means Caucasian. If it had a derogatory meaning in the past - which I seriously doubt - it's irrelevant now. That farang is derived from farangset which is derived from the Thai pronunciation of Francais has been explained by Bangkok Post columnist "Ayu Mongkol," Marvin Brown (AUA) and others, but the usual explanation is that French people were among the first foreigners in Thailand so Thais initially called all foreigners "Francais." But no one knows the origin of the word for sure. French missionaries trying to overthrow the king sounds a bit wild to me.

1688, Jan - The French soldiers become increasingly unpopular with the Thais due to their display of racist and insolent attitudes. Anti-foreign organizations are born and the religious prejudices of the people are likewise aroused. It should be noted that the term used by Thais until today for western foreigners is farang, an abbreviation of the original farangse - the Thai word for the French (François in French). The term farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

More to be found here: http://www.simply-thai.com/Thailand_Chrono...hai_History.htm

Anyway, I am dutch and knew about this from High School from our history lessons. So I had to get back and found some articles for you to read...

[camerata]

Thanks, but Serge Kreutz is not a source I'd want to use for the origin of Thai words. Apparently he's a travel writer who now writes mostly about "sexuality." He's neither a linguist nor a historian.