Koh Tao: Prosecutors unfazed by retraction of confession in British tourists' killing

[bongoz]

Confessions are recanted in every country. It doesn't mean the confession is gone. It means the judges will weigh the confessions against the recantation.

Please see JLCrab's posts on what the UK police can do.

Ummm.... No confessions aren't even taken in most countries.

A digitally recorded interview is submitted into evidence in most countries, pretty hard to recant that, especially when the accused is asked multiple times in different ways the same questions.

Only at the end of the interview are the accused asked to make any comments.

BTW the record of interview is transcribed and the law states a copy must be given to the accused, along with a copy of the digital interview. That's why they make 3 copies.

Quoting Oz law does not mean most countries. Confessions are taken in the US and UK and Canada...

http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Confessions

[bongoz]

"public prosecutors have been focusing on evidence and witnesses, not the confession.:

that is because the nice Police and the bar owners Paiyabaans, have given WITNESS statements that is needed to convict. Despite the fact no one actually came forward as a witness before.

No wonder the world is looking at this and I hope this really closes down QUALITY tourists from coming here - everyone apart from Chinese and Koreans. And no thai I know wants these tourists either. they are mean with their money.

Nurses have given witness statements?

Nurses???

Why, what, who and where???

Link please...

[jdinasia]

Confessions are recanted in every country. It doesn't mean the confession is gone. It means the judges will weigh the confessions against the recantation.

Please see JLCrab's posts on what the UK police can do.

Ummm.... No confessions aren't even taken in most countries.

A digitally recorded interview is submitted into evidence in most countries, pretty hard to recant that, especially when the accused is asked multiple times in different ways the same questions.

Only at the end of the interview are the accused asked to make any comments.

BTW the record of interview is transcribed and the law states a copy must be given to the accused, along with a copy of the digital interview. That's why they make 3 copies.

Quoting Oz law does not mean most countries. Confessions are taken in the US and UK and Canada...

http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Confessions

From your link

Despite increased evidence that confessions may be unreliable, they remain the gold standard of evidence for police investigations. Confessions are sometimes called the "Queen of Evidence".

[jdinasia]

"public prosecutors have been focusing on evidence and witnesses, not the confession.:

that is because the nice Police and the bar owners Paiyabaans, have given WITNESS statements that is needed to convict. Despite the fact no one actually came forward as a witness before.

No wonder the world is looking at this and I hope this really closes down QUALITY tourists from coming here - everyone apart from Chinese and Koreans. And no thai I know wants these tourists either. they are mean with their money.

Nurses have given witness statements?

Nurses???

Why, what, who and where???

Link please...

"paiyabaan"=nurse

[bongoz]

I noted that the two migrants were mentioned in the UKs PMs questions yesterday when the PM stated he had talked to the Thai PM regarding the involvement of the UK police let us hope that the right conclusion and the real killers will be caught and brought to justice.

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

[jdinasia]

I noted that the two migrants were mentioned in the UKs PMs questions yesterday when the PM stated he had talked to the Thai PM regarding the involvement of the UK police let us hope that the right conclusion and the real killers will be caught and brought to justice.

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

Yes it does. Next is a trial to determine guilt or innocence.

[bongoz]

"public prosecutors have been focusing on evidence and witnesses, not the confession.:

that is because the nice Police and the bar owners Paiyabaans, have given WITNESS statements that is needed to convict. Despite the fact no one actually came forward as a witness before.

No wonder the world is looking at this and I hope this really closes down QUALITY tourists from coming here - everyone apart from Chinese and Koreans. And no thai I know wants these tourists either. they are mean with their money.

Nurses have given witness statements?

Nurses???

Why, what, who and where???

Link please...

"paiyabaan"=nurse

And that's your answer????

What were nurses doing, caring for the victims??

Or watching the crimes??

[bongoz]

Quoting Oz law does not mean most countries. Confessions are taken in the US and UK and Canada...

http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Confessions

From your link

Despite increased evidence that confessions may be unreliable, they remain the gold standard of evidence for police investigations. Confessions are sometimes called the "Queen of Evidence".

Yes that is just but one snippet - what does the rest say???

[jdinasia]

LOL.. Go back and read. Look for punctuation.

[heyexile]

so the good general could over ride the RTP instruct the guest police force to conduct a PROPER investagation

and Mr Thaowatchai cant hide behind a constatuition because there is not one

pryath has the ace card i wish he use it clear up this awful mess

He could but he wont. He is deeply involved in this awful mess. As PM he is Supreme Commander of Police Dept. His handpicked appointee, the Police Commissioner General, has been in charge of the case and both pronounced it perfect/complete!

Back to the OP:

Prosecutor Thawatchai "....investigators have been instructed to conduct more probes.*

ie. back to the police again, for the 3rd time!

Prosecutor Thaiwatchai "It remains unknown when the case will be complete and ready for filing."

Thai criminal justice system has a "horrific record" in tourist murder cases. See article, 21st Oct, to wit:

"Not saving Thailand`s Face: the backlash of police corruption in tourist murders"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509

[thailandchilli]

I noted that the two migrants were mentioned in the UKs PMs questions yesterday when the PM stated he had talked to the Thai PM regarding the involvement of the UK police let us hope that the right conclusion and the real killers will be caught and brought to justice.

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

Yes it does. Next is a trial to determine guilt or innocence.

Yes a trial where the suspects have already been called guilty by the PM, his aides and all police officials. Hardly a fair trial, but a perfect case wrapped up eh

[bongoz]

so the good general could over ride the RTP instruct the guest police force to conduct a PROPER investagation

and Mr Thaowatchai cant hide behind a constatuition because there is not one

pryath has the ace card i wish he use it clear up this awful mess

Organic laws are still in place. It's not constitutional law but UK law. International law, and domestic law that precludes your scenario.

Organic law is that a big pile of Thai doo-doo?

[bongoz]

I noted that the two migrants were mentioned in the UKs PMs questions yesterday when the PM stated he had talked to the Thai PM regarding the involvement of the UK police let us hope that the right conclusion and the real killers will be caught and brought to justice.

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

Yes it does. Next is a trial to determine guilt or innocence.

You have to be joking right? "quite likely" does even sound faintly like guilty beyond reasonable doubt...

[billphillips]

It may well be the case that the public prosecutor will wait, wait and wait more until the UK and Burmese have made their findings public.

I feel sure that the Thai public prosecutor office would not want to be associated with any skulduggery carried out by the police.

Saving face is as, if not more, important to them. I also feel sure that .... The longer the wait is ..... The more chances of no prosecution. The UK police know that already. They are devout professionals. The UK police could, if they wanted to, have had Thai speaking detectives here within days, if not hours, or maybe they are here already. Thai police are cunning but by comparison ....... Enough said.

[jdinasia]

I noted that the two migrants were mentioned in the UKs PMs questions yesterday when the PM stated he had talked to the Thai PM regarding the involvement of the UK police let us hope that the right conclusion and the real killers will be caught and brought to justice.

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

Yes it does. Next is a trial to determine guilt or innocence.

You have to be joking right? "quite likely" does even sound faintly like guilty beyond reasonable doubt...

LOL

Go read again.

Trials are where guilt and innocence are determined. Not social media.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Confessions are recanted in every country. It doesn't mean the confession is gone. It means the judges will weigh the confessions against the recantation.

Please see JLCrab's posts on what the UK police can do.

Ummm.... No confessions aren't even taken in most countries.

A digitally recorded interview is submitted into evidence in most countries, pretty hard to recant that, especially when the accused is asked multiple times in different ways the same questions.

Only at the end of the interview are the accused asked to make any comments.

BTW the record of interview is transcribed and the law states a copy must be given to the accused, along with a copy of the digital interview. That's why they make 3 copies.

Quoting Oz law does not mean most countries. Confessions are taken in the US and UK and Canada...

http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Confessions

First sentence from link ... "Despite increased evidence that confessions may be unreliable, they remain the gold standard of evidence for police investigations."

So, basically you proved yourself your comment "confessions aren't even taken in most countries" was BS.

Edited October 23, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

It is quite likely that the real killers have been caught.

"quite likely"

says it all really...

Yes it does. Next is a trial to determine guilt or innocence.

You have to be joking right? "quite likely" does even sound faintly like guilty beyond reasonable doubt...

The rest of us our waiting for the court proceedings to judge guilty or innocent regardless of your need to do it before without knowing all the facts and evidence. Bottom line is it seems extremely likely they are bringing the right people to court and no plausible reason to believe somebody else committed the crime.

Edited October 23, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[beammeup]

 

They will not unofficially either.

I do expect them to see the DNA results. They will not be able to independently verify results.

I do expect them to meet the suspects.

Not much else they can do other than look at photos.

There is no way a 'JD' could be that naive. Those in the know are aware that the British police have been investigating on their own for weeks now. They keep a very low profile. They won't tip their hand so early on. There is a deliberate attempt by a certain group of posters to cast negativity on everything and everyone who dosen't see things their way (or their boss's way).

&n

Maybe they just dont see things your way

[7Heaven]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

I thought Martial Law trumped everything else.....

The case is being heard in criminal court. Not a courts martial.

if the prosecutor considers that they are additional evidence for a prosecution. What is the current situation does not

[jdinasia]

7... Read the OP for this thread.

[icare999]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

The answers the BIB give to every doubt is the cause of international concern.

As to what Thai laws allow, you might want to check with the PM about that, as Burmese and UK police are coming over/already here to look at the case.

To observe as stated in the article. They are not here to investigate.

Yeah right. They're just going to accept a plate full of BIB BS and then walk away saying its all lovely and nice here.

Don't think so.

They will want to look at the DNA and if it matches then fine. If not I doubt they'll just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

You don't need to investigate anything to find the flaws if they exist, just examine the evidence and draw conclusions.

The confession is gone and suddenly doesn't matter.

What's the next domino to fall?

i guarantee in a few months it ail pall blow over and UK Burma and rest will just go along with whatever. Lip service and politeness will be paid to concerns but nothing more and yes UK police will just also do nothing nor can they. Some people are so naive to think this ism ore than a little ant as far as Thai authorities are concerned and as far as need for UK too keep good relationships with Thailand not other way round. Sad for parents but thats the reality. Just look at scandals in UK and total lack of investigation in recent high profile pedophile cases involving many high connected people and 1500 young girls in was it manchester abused and place social and rest simply whitewashed it all.

[beammeup]

 

Confessions are recanted in every country. It doesn't mean the confession is gone. It means the judges will weigh the confessions against the recantation.

Please see JLCrab's posts on what the UK police can do.

A recanted confession would be entirely inadmissible in any civilised justice system.

What a joke.

Are you making a joke or are you really this uninformed. Nowhere that I can think of would a recanted confession not be allowed in as evidence since it is. If a judge believes the confession was obtained illegally then that is a different story but a recanted confession is and should be brought up at a trial.

Since it is usually difficult to prove if a confession was obtained illegally then it is up to the defense to explain why their suspected confessed to a crime they did not do ... such as being scared, beaten or threatened. This is all every day stuff in court rooms around the globe.

 

John I am on your side but they did not have a lawyer present, so really how con it be admissible?

[heyexile]

so the good general could over ride the RTP instruct the guest police force to conduct a PROPER investagation

and Mr Thaowatchai cant hide behind a constatuition because there is not one

pryath has the ace card i wish he use it clear up this awful mess

Organic laws are still in place. It's not constitutional law but UK law. International law, and domestic law that precludes your scenario.

Organic law is that a big pile of Thai doo-doo?

I agree with your posts but why get bogged down with guys who may have dark motives for diverting attention away from the self damning words of the Prosecutor in the OP?

These guys` job (full time it seems) maybe to defend the regime at all costs on a paid per post basis or on a fanatical volunteer basis. No names, no pack drill.

Take a look at #312 above. I value your opinion so what do you think of Prosecutor`s statement and implications?

[7Heaven]

7... Read the OP for this thread.

ok j

Mr. Thawatchai added that, in this case, forensic evidence and reports from the medical examiners will be the most crucial elements in the filing of the case with the court.

He went on to say that after investigators have been instructed to conduct more probes, it remains unknown when the case will be complete and ready for filing.

[heyexile]

7... Read the OP for this thread.

ok j

Mr. Thawatchai added that, in this case, forensic evidence and reports from the medical examiners will be the most crucial elements in the filing of the case with the court.

He went on to say that after investigators have been instructed to conduct more probes, it remains unknown when the case will be complete and ready for filing.

He did indeed! So back to police investigators again, for the 3rd time. Oh dear!

Whatever happened to the PM`s and Police Commissioner General`s `complete/perfect` case eh?

[Thai at Heart]

Evidence from a medical examiner will do it?

Any reasonable defence lawyer would blow the chain of chain of custody of the water.

So with no confession i have a paddle they may like to help them get out if this creek with.

Everyone here. Would you retract your confession if u thought there was a chance of the death penalty? They have called the prosecutors hand and he has nothing.

[Thai at Heart]

How long can they keep these guys detained while they go ahead making their case.????????

If the evidence is insufficient to make a case, don't they have to release them?

[northernjohn]

The only reason this farce has continued without anyone in the current administration questioning it is because it goes way higher than a mob family.

The only question is why northernjohn, the bastion of pro-coup semantics and his fellow posters JTJ and jdinasia are against a new set of eyes looking into this mess. Surely we all after the truth, aren't we?

What are you on about now. You try to mislead and very successfully I might add the sheeple. I can only speak for myself but I have no problem with them looking in on it. Can you point out where I said I was against it?

You all remind me of the old time picture I saw of a circus with the elephants going around in a circle holding on to the tail of the one in front of them.

I have a problem with people who only know what the less than reliable papers print and are ready to release the prisoners and say sorry about that. What information do any of you have other than what the news papers print. I could care less if England and Miramar send people over. It will eliminate actions that are not conductive to getting to the truth. When it goes to court there will be no chicanery with them watching.

Now I will just ask you nicely to as I said earlier tell where I said I was against them and also I will ask you to tell us all of concrete proof you are in possession of to prove the two innocent. I know you can't answer the first one and I doubt that you can answer the second question. In short you have nothing other than an opinion based on news papers and fellow Thai Visa posters.

Great detective work Sherlock.

[Thai at Heart]

The only reason this farce has continued without anyone in the current administration questioning it is because it goes way higher than a mob family.

The only question is why northernjohn, the bastion of pro-coup semantics and his fellow posters JTJ and jdinasia are against a new set of eyes looking into this mess. Surely we all after the truth, aren't we?

What are you on about now. You try to mislead and very successfully I might add the sheeple. I can only speak for myself but I have no problem with them looking in on it. Can you point out where I said I was against it?

You all remind me of the old time picture I saw of a circus with the elephants going around in a circle holding on to the tail of the one in front of them.

I have a problem with people who only know what the less than reliable papers print and are ready to release the prisoners and say sorry about that. What information do any of you have other than what the news papers print. I could care less if England and Miramar send people over. It will eliminate actions that are not conductive to getting to the truth. When it goes to court there will be no chicanery with them watching.

Now I will just ask you nicely to as I said earlier tell where I said I was against them and also I will ask you to tell us all of concrete proof you are in possession of to prove the two innocent. I know you can't answer the first one and I doubt that you can answer the second question. In short you have nothing other than an opinion based on news papers and fellow Thai Visa posters.

Great detective work Sherlock.

At this rate, it may stop the case ever getting to court.

It won't take a genius bit of police work to discover if they samples for DNA have been jigged.

These are sperm samples supposedly.

What did they do, make the accused produce into a cup?

[heyexile]

How long can they keep these guys detained while they go ahead making their case.????????

If the evidence is insufficient to make a case, don't they have to release them?

No. Unfortunately not. TIT. They can be remanded in custody every 12 days indefinitely I understand.They are being kept in shackles 24/7, see Andy Hall.

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

The process is to decide on the result wanted and then work/fabricate the evidence to suit.

Thai criminal justice system has a terrible record of this in tourist murder cases as this recent article documents. http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509