Nato jets 'intercept Russian spy plane' over Baltic

[khunken]

The basis of the above argument that NATO wants to take over the former Soviet union, kind of falls down a bit when you think how long it is since the Berlin wall was pulled down by its own heroic citizens. NATO could have walked in through all the former Soviet states if it had the desire to.

Actually NATO did acquire many of the former Soviet states and that's why Russia has drawn a line in the sand over Ukraine. NATO (the US essentially) always lie that new NATO bases are to protect Europe from Iran & N Korea when neither has ever threatened the EU. The missiles usually end up pointing at Russia.

NATO should have been disbanded when the Soviet Union broke up but continued to allow a US military presence all over Europe. NATO's disastrous 'protect civilians' pro-rebel adventure in Libya rather sums up their deceit.

As for the Op - just the usual western media playing to the brainwashed over a very minor incident.

[Matej]

Well, it's not as if NATO has provoked Russia... Not in the slightest... How about the US / NATO non-aggression treaty that guaranteed Gorbachov that NATO would not expand into the east... Lies and a broken treaty... Then what about the FACT that the EU / US backed the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine... And what about the sanctions imposed on Russia by the west, the Saudis ramping up pumping to lower the cost of oil to hurt Russian exports, and on and on and on...

Putin has warned just last week that these actions might work when you are dealing with a 3rd world shithole that has no way to fight back, but Vlad reminded everyone that Russia is a nuclear power and not to be provoked...

For those bleating that the "Soviet era is back", get a grip... Russia was happily minding their own business when the US funded the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine in retaliation for their intervention into the Syrian mess in the summer of 2013...

You people really do need to read me before you comment on things you know nothing about...

There never was such a promise.

These things were discussed with Boris Jelcin ... Why do you think there's Russian diplomats at NATO?

What is your point anyway?

Baltic States are sovereign countries, they decided for NATO and West ...

Kremlin is not able to accept that age of colonialism, military imperialism and peace treaties is over.

What are they offering to their neighbors? Oligarchic hydra, corruption, backwardness and invisible enemies!

Signs of Nazism(national socialism) has Putin's regime ...

You people really do need to read me before you comment on things you know nothing about ...

I'd like to know what are you reading. Pravda? Iskra? Chomsky? ...

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

America has many more skeletons in its closet than Russia.

You just not allowed to know about it as the Anglo media dominate the world...not for much longer as the internet is making them less dominant..

Russia is no angel of course...imperial powers never are.

..but americans tearing their clothes screaming foul is just ludicrous.

Do you really believe that US AWACS,satellites and what not are not spying on Russia daily?

Get real.

Russia is pissed off mightily over the never-ending encroachment of NATO eastwards.

That wasn't part of the deal after the collapse of the S, Union and the dissolution of the Warsaw pact.

..but the West kept pushing eastwards..

Russia is drawing a line in the sand.

The alliance of Russia and China will be the dominant power in the next decades.

Europe will eventually accept the inevitable and play along.

The Atlantic century is coming to a close.

Warsaw Pact fell apart because of economic,

political and ethnical issues in USSR. This had nothing to do with NATO or the West.

There never was agreement or even discussion that end of Warsaw Pact/USSR means the end of NATO. This only is Kremlin propaganda, contemporary propaganda ... It's simple. Capitalism won, Soviet socialism lost.

In my previous comment I was talking about NATO expansion and agreement between Jelcin and NATO leaders, back than, before Putin era.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know the truth same as others. Don't be shy, unfold your well of the truth.

Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Edited October 24, 2014 by Matej

[Publicus]

This Russian incident was a real threat. NOT. That plane was developed in 1956 and is a slow propeller driven plane without much altitude or speed capability.

Russia is really struggling due a big drop in oil prices and simply doesn't have any money to spend on military. Its equipment and technology is crap.

All Putin can do or say to sound tough is to remind people that he has nukes. That whole bunch is comprised of Neanderthals.

Why are conventional weapons important any more? You talk about Neanderthals. Let's see what America would look like if Russia sets off an EMP using its nuclear arsenal

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet

Hello Mad Max.

It's of great concern throughout the West that they know Putin is unpredictable and that Russians living abroad who know Moscow and Putin best say Putin himself doesn't actually know where he's going amidst all the commotion he's created in the name of mother Russia.

Putin's nuclear talk is crazy talk and it's supported by the apocalypse doomsday crowd..

[BadBouy]

This Russian incident was a real threat. NOT. That plane was developed in 1956 and is a slow propeller driven plane without much altitude or speed capability.

Russia is really struggling due a big drop in oil prices and simply doesn't have any money to spend on military. Its equipment and technology is crap.

All Putin can do or say to sound tough is to remind people that he has nukes. That whole bunch is comprised of Neanderthals.

Why are conventional weapons important any more? You talk about Neanderthals. Let's see what America would look like if Russia sets off an EMP using its nuclear arsenal

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet

And what would Russian look like about a minute later? MAD still applies.

[MRDave]

Russia is a little dog barking that thinks its a big dog. All Putin can do is mention nuclear weapons. But we have more than him so bring it on Vlad!

[konying]

This Russian incident was a real threat. NOT. That plane was developed in 1956 and is a slow propeller driven plane without much altitude or speed capability.

Russia is really struggling due a big drop in oil prices and simply doesn't have any money to spend on military. Its equipment and technology is crap.

All Putin can do or say to sound tough is to remind people that he has nukes. That whole bunch is comprised of Neanderthals.

Why are conventional weapons important any more? You talk about Neanderthals. Let's see what America would look like if Russia sets off an EMP using its nuclear arsenal

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet

Hello Mad Max.

It's of great concern throughout the West that they know Putin is unpredictable and that Russians living abroad who know Moscow and Putin best say Putin himself doesn't actually know where he's going amidst all the commotion he's created in the name of mother Russia.

Putin's nuclear talk is crazy talk and it's supported by the apocalypse doomsday crowd..

Interesting assessment. Is it all your idea's or sourced from yet another US propaganda media source?

[attento]

Enter their backyard and watch the toys get thrown out of the pram!

Russia is the China of Europe.

about 75% of Russia is in Asia

[attento]

Well, it's not as if NATO has provoked Russia... Not in the slightest... How about the US / NATO non-aggression treaty that guaranteed Gorbachov that NATO would not expand into the east... Lies and a broken treaty... Then what about the FACT that the EU / US backed the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine... And what about the sanctions imposed on Russia by the west, the Saudis ramping up pumping to lower the cost of oil to hurt Russian exports, and on and on and on...

Putin has warned just last week that these actions might work when you are dealing with a 3rd world shithole that has no way to fight back, but Vlad reminded everyone that Russia is a nuclear power and not to be provoked...

For those bleating that the "Soviet era is back", get a grip... Russia was happily minding their own business when the US funded the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine in retaliation for their intervention into the Syrian mess in the summer of 2013...

You people really do need to read me before you comment on things you know nothing about...

I hear that TVF is giving away free tinfoil hats today.

It's hard to believe that someone would actually prefer and support Russia over the West. That is unless he's a Russian elite.

Is this a correct usage of the word elite ? It is conventionally used to describe a group superior in ability, rather than bunch of corrupt cronies.

[Publicus]

This Russian incident was a real threat. NOT. That plane was developed in 1956 and is a slow propeller driven plane without much altitude or speed capability.

Russia is really struggling due a big drop in oil prices and simply doesn't have any money to spend on military. Its equipment and technology is crap.

All Putin can do or say to sound tough is to remind people that he has nukes. That whole bunch is comprised of Neanderthals.

Why are conventional weapons important any more? You talk about Neanderthals. Let's see what America would look like if Russia sets off an EMP using its nuclear arsenal

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet

Hello Mad Max.

It's of great concern throughout the West that they know Putin is unpredictable and that Russians living abroad who know Moscow and Putin best say Putin himself doesn't actually know where he's going amidst all the commotion he's created in the name of mother Russia.

Putin's nuclear talk is crazy talk and it's supported by the apocalypse doomsday crowd..

Interesting assessment. Is it all your idea's or sourced from yet another US propaganda media source?

Everything you don't like comes from a "US propaganda media source." That's the standard response but it long ago became overused and flippantly thrown into the mix. It's the default setting for your posts.

And now this is the reality of repeatedly reciting the line.....

[Matej]

This Russian incident was a real threat. NOT. That plane was developed in 1956 and is a slow propeller driven plane without much altitude or speed capability.

Russia is really struggling due a big drop in oil prices and simply doesn't have any money to spend on military. Its equipment and technology is crap.

All Putin can do or say to sound tough is to remind people that he has nukes. That whole bunch is comprised of Neanderthals.

Why are conventional weapons important any more? You talk about Neanderthals. Let's see what America would look like if Russia sets off an EMP using its nuclear arsenal

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet

Hello Mad Max.

It's of great concern throughout the West that they know Putin is unpredictable and that Russians living abroad who know Moscow and Putin best say Putin himself doesn't actually know where he's going amidst all the commotion he's created in the name of mother Russia.

Putin's nuclear talk is crazy talk and it's supported by the apocalypse doomsday crowd..

Interesting assessment. Is it all your idea's or sourced from yet another US propaganda media source?

Ive already asked this question, but no one answered so I ave to ask again.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know ...

I read NY times, Washington post, The economist, BBC, sometimes some books ... If this is propaganda, where can I find the truth.

Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Thank you

Edited October 24, 2014 by Matej

[ABCer]

Matej, koning, Publicus, AsianTravel, NeverSure

Ive already asked this question, but no one answered so I ave to ask again.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know ...
I read NY times, Washington post, The economist, BBC, sometimes some books ... If this is propaganda, where can I find the truth.
Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Thank you

1. The Truth is Out There.

2. The Lie repeated often enough becomes the Truth.

3. Whatever they say is lies, unless I like it.

4. Truth or Lie depends on what can be proved.

5. Logic can be used to prove anything.

Now, on a more serious note. NYTimes, WPost, BBC, TASS, RToday, Xinhua, AlJazeera and many others - are all full of Politicized Lies.

If you want the Truth you have to read ALL of them. Then read between the lines. Then apply your own common sense. Not many people can do this.

And if you think you can - go to #3 above

[NeverSure]

Hello Mad Max.

It's of great concern throughout the West that they know Putin is unpredictable and that Russians living abroad who know Moscow and Putin best say Putin himself doesn't actually know where he's going amidst all the commotion he's created in the name of mother Russia.

Putin's nuclear talk is crazy talk and it's supported by the apocalypse doomsday crowd..

Interesting assessment. Is it all your idea's or sourced from yet another US propaganda media source?

Ive already asked this question, but no one answered so I ave to ask again.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know ...

I read NY times, Washington post, The economist, BBC, sometimes some books ... If this is propaganda, where can I find the truth.

Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Thank you

I would suggest Al Jazeera because it's been authoritatively quoted on here.

[Asiantravel]

‘Poker Player’ Putin Bluffed and Won, French Envoy Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-22/-poker-player-putin-bluffed-and-won-french-envoy-says.html

[Qarl]

Well, it's not as if NATO has provoked Russia... Not in the slightest... How about the US / NATO non-aggression treaty that guaranteed Gorbachov that NATO would not expand into the east... Lies and a broken treaty... Then what about the FACT that the EU / US backed the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine... And what about the sanctions imposed on Russia by the west, the Saudis ramping up pumping to lower the cost of oil to hurt Russian exports, and on and on and on...

Putin has warned just last week that these actions might work when you are dealing with a 3rd world shithole that has no way to fight back, but Vlad reminded everyone that Russia is a nuclear power and not to be provoked...

For those bleating that the "Soviet era is back", get a grip... Russia was happily minding their own business when the US funded the neo-nazi overthrow of Ukraine in retaliation for their intervention into the Syrian mess in the summer of 2013...

You people really do need to read me before you comment on things you know nothing about...

There never was such a promise.

These things were discussed with Boris Jelcin ... Why do you think there's Russian diplomats at NATO?

What is your point anyway?

Baltic States are sovereign countries, they decided for NATO and West ...

Kremlin is not able to accept that age of colonialism, military imperialism and peace treaties is over.

What are they offering to their neighbors? Oligarchic hydra, corruption, backwardness and invisible enemies!

Signs of Nazism(national socialism) has Putin's regime ...

You people really do need to read me before you comment on things you know nothing about ...

I'd like to know what are you reading. Pravda? Iskra? Chomsky? ...

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

America has many more skeletons in its closet than Russia.

You just not allowed to know about it as the Anglo media dominate the world...not for much longer as the internet is making them less dominant..

Russia is no angel of course...imperial powers never are.

..but americans tearing their clothes screaming foul is just ludicrous.

Do you really believe that US AWACS,satellites and what not are not spying on Russia daily?

Get real.

Russia is pissed off mightily over the never-ending encroachment of NATO eastwards.

That wasn't part of the deal after the collapse of the S, Union and the dissolution of the Warsaw pact.

..but the West kept pushing eastwards..

Russia is drawing a line in the sand.

The alliance of Russia and China will be the dominant power in the next decades.

Europe will eventually accept the inevitable and play along.

The Atlantic century is coming to a close.

What a fantastic day-dream!

[Matej]

Matej, koning, Publicus, AsianTravel, NeverSure

Ive already asked this question, but no one answered so I ave to ask again.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know ...

I read NY times, Washington post, The economist, BBC, sometimes some books ... If this is propaganda, where can I find the truth.

Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Thank you

1. The Truth is Out There.

2. The Lie repeated often enough becomes the Truth.

3. Whatever they say is lies, unless I like it.

4. Truth or Lie depends on what can be proved.

5. Logic can be used to prove anything.

Now, on a more serious note. NYTimes, WPost, BBC, TASS, RToday, Xinhua, AlJazeera and many others - are all full of Politicized Lies.

If you want the Truth you have to read ALL of them. Then read between the lines. Then apply your own common sense. Not many people can do this.

And if you think you can - go to #3 above

Total nonsense ...

[ABCer]

Matej, koning, Publicus, AsianTravel, NeverSure

Ive already asked this question, but no one answered so I ave to ask again.

What are independent media, tell us. I want to know ...

I read NY times, Washington post, The economist, BBC, sometimes some books ... If this is propaganda, where can I find the truth.

Russia Today, TASS, Rossija Segodna or CCTV, Xinhua???

Thank you

1. The Truth is Out There.

2. The Lie repeated often enough becomes the Truth.

3. Whatever they say is lies, unless I like it.

4. Truth or Lie depends on what can be proved.

5. Logic can be used to prove anything.

Now, on a more serious note. NYTimes, WPost, BBC, TASS, RToday, Xinhua, AlJazeera and many others - are all full of Politicized Lies.

If you want the Truth you have to read ALL of them. Then read between the lines. Then apply your own common sense. Not many people can do this.

And if you think you can - go to #3 above

Total nonsense ...

I LOVE your arguments.

I think total BS would be even more convincing.

Did you study the debating skills at the kindergarten level? Texas or Alabama? Too rich for me.

[Publicus]

I think you.underestimate Russia's military capabilities. They have invested a lot into the army now for many years and have clearly superior capabilities to many other countries in Europe maybe with exception of Great Britain and France. Also NATO's capabilities in Europe have diminished and they are now trying to reinvest and rebuild their European capabilities.

Find a military expert in uniform or a civilian outside of Russia who will say the Russian armed forces are a match against the armed forces of Nato and I'll immediately bring 50 experts to point out why he's dead wrong. Show me another one and I'd bring 100 more experts to do the same thing.

Nonetheless there are distinctions to be made, such as whether Russia would attack some small countries close to its borders or would make an all out assault against Europe itself. In the former Putin would have an initial advantage, but if it were the latter he'd fail completely. In either event, Putin and Russia would be goners, isolated in the former demolished in the latter.

In WW2 the Nazi elite SS spearheaded almost every major German offensive in their notorious blitzkrieg to destroy the enemy's defenses with the bulk of the German Army then moving into the breach. This is Putin's configuration of the Russian Army. It has well trained and equipped spearhead initial assault forces but no adequate army to follow it, so Putin knows he comes up short.

Nor could Putin sustain a military offensive against Europe by which we mean Nato. Russia doesn't have the supplies, men, equipment, reinforcements, replacements to do it.

Yes the U.S. dominates Nato but don'\t dismiss the fact the Europeans don't overspend on their military force. Excluding the U.S. and Canada, the European Battle Group perpetually has 6000 Ready Response combat soldiers on 24/7 standby and has this year authorized a 4000 special forces Rapid Response force that will come online the middle of next year.

Putin's greatest asset, cyber warfare is advanced but the U.S. will clock it instantly. The whole idea of cyber warfare is to absorb the powerful EMP hit then to respond which Russia cannot do. Neither can China, neither can Iran. Forget about India or anyone else.

[MJP]

A post has been removed. Please check your Caps Lock isn't on before posting. Thank you.

[Robert24]

@publicus: how about Rasmussen, secretary general from the NATO. At the last NATO Summit in September in Wales, they have agreed to build a readily deployable NATO force with 4000 men to protect Eastern Europe and the Baltic states. Basically meaning that Nato has only limited capabilities in Europe right now. Aside from France and Britain who in Europe do you think has the capability to defend themselves against Russia? Germany? Austria? Sweden? Finnland? Poland? Hungary? Most European countries have reduced their capabilities, cut their defense budget to an extend that many troops are not deployable anymore. Have you followed the problems the Germans have with their air force and ground troops? Western European countries have woken up at the beginning of this year and realized they need to invest more into their defense capabilities. But it will take time, from the point you start increasing the budget until you see it in your capabilities there is easily a delay of 3-5 years or even more.

There are only 3 NATO allies with strong capabilities, the US, Britain and France. But the question will be about the political will to send troops to Eastern Europe. Do you see this political will in the US? Maybe it will change in the future.