New York doctor tests positive for Ebola

[JDGRUEN]

To the Moon and Back - Astronauts placed in 21 day Quarantine upon return to earth... NASA and the Astronauts thought it was a good thing to do for the rest of humanity ... but that was 45 years ago when such things were done for the greater good.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771651-us-ebola-nurse-to-take-legal-action-over-confinement/#entry8590066

[Chicog]

To the Moon and Back - Astronauts placed in 21 day Quarantine upon return to earth... NASA and the Astronauts thought it was a good thing to do for the rest of humanity ... but that was 45 years ago when such things were done for the greater good.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771651-us-ebola-nurse-to-take-legal-action-over-confinement/#entry8590066

... And when they had no idea what diseases they might be bringing back.

[Chicog]

It seems there are quite a few posters who take every opportunity to make a political angle out of this as well.

Yes, there are. Most if the hysteria on subjects like these are driven by political motivations and those trying to rally the ignorant aspect of their base. I hate to say it, but the Christian Right and Republican base are the ignorant fools that buy anything their heroes tell them. They are dominated by and motivated by fear in their decision making and media and politicians play on it for their own benefit.

Alot if this stuff is common sense. Right now, we are talking 2 out of like 150 people having direct contact with Duncan while he was symptomatic getting Ebola. One of those was changing or inserting his catheter and dealing with soiled linens. The kill rate in US also seems to be pretty lame and much less than some of the super bugs I worry about.

"I hate to say it, but the Christian Right and Republican base are the ignorant fools that buy anything their heroes tell them. They are dominated by and motivated by fear in their decision making and media and politicians play on it for their own benefit."

...Uh, pardon me, but your political motivation is showing...

May be, but he's also right.

[JDGRUEN]

Well it seems Gov. Cuomo must have read my two post here on TVF yesterday, as he is kinda sorta employing what I suggested... In a few more days perhaps he will get it right... Guess, I need to send copies of my posts to Gov. Christie...

Under Pressure, Cuomo Says Ebola Quarantines Will Allow Home Isolation

By MATT FLEGENHEIMER, MICHAEL D. SHEAR and MICHAEL BARBARO

OCT. 26, 2014

Facing fierce resistance from the White House and medical experts to a strict new mandatory quarantine policy for all medical workers who had contact with Ebola patients in West Africa, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said Sunday night that people quarantined in New York who do not show symptoms of the disease would be allowed to remain at home and would receive compensation for lost income.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html

Party loyalty is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Cuomo (working with obama) may have set Christie up ... Hey Chris - let's do this together... Christie does and next day Cuomo backs down a notch .... heheheheheh politics is so silly...

Edited October 27, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[hawker9000]

It seems there are quite a few posters who take every opportunity to make a political angle out of this as well.

Yes, there are. Most if the hysteria on subjects like these are driven by political motivations and those trying to rally the ignorant aspect of their base. I hate to say it, but the Christian Right and Republican base are the ignorant fools that buy anything their heroes tell them. They are dominated by and motivated by fear in their decision making and media and politicians play on it for their own benefit.

Alot if this stuff is common sense. Right now, we are talking 2 out of like 150 people having direct contact with Duncan while he was symptomatic getting Ebola. One of those was changing or inserting his catheter and dealing with soiled linens. The kill rate in US also seems to be pretty lame and much less than some of the super bugs I worry about.

"I hate to say it, but the Christian Right and Republican base are the ignorant fools that buy anything their heroes tell them. They are dominated by and motivated by fear in their decision making and media and politicians play on it for their own benefit."

...Uh, pardon me, but your political motivation is showing...

May be, but he's also right.

Nonsense.

[Chicog]

May be, but he's also right.

Nonsense.

Pfft I say.

You have Issa demanding more hearings for himself and talking about "Eboli" coming from "Guyana".

Rand Paul, who calls himself a doctor - he's a self-certified ophthalmologist and nothing more - stoking up fears by telling everyone the CDC is deliberately downplaying the threat. And that you could end up with a whole shipload of American military infected.

Ted Cruz demanding more border guards to stop Ebola slipping in from Mexico (!).

Three notable Republicans all talking out of their anal fissures.

And let's not even mention Cruz's staffer who blamed Ebola on Obamacare and then tried to make a joke out of it.

Them and Fox News are trying to blow this up into another "scandal" for the elections - no surprise because they haven't got any others anyone gives a damn about.

Most of the fearmongering comes from the Right, so it's perfectly acceptable to address it in that context.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Chicog

[Ulysses G.]

A number of medical professionals have been infected wearing whole-body hazardous materials suits and no one knows how or why. Yeah, fear of an outbreak of the disease in America is all just a right-wing conspiracy.

[bkkcanuck8]

A number of medical professionals have been infected wearing whole-body hazardous materials suits and no one knows how or why. Yeah, fear of an outbreak of the disease in America is all just a right-wing conspiracy.

Not in the United States, the two nurses that were infected were infected because the standards of the hospital were so far below "Doctors without Borders" that it was insanely negligent.

When experienced people suit up for occasional use, you rarely will have lapses. When you are suiting up day in and day out in the middle of a tropical area - you will eventually make mistakes -- which in this case can get you into serious trouble (hot). The doctor (Nebraska treated, gave blood for nurses) was infected in Africa, it was a surprise since he was one of the most diligent when it came to standards.... but he figures it was secondary contact from someone that was not as diligent once he had removed the protection. You really rely on the entire team in situations like this and one can cause problems.

[Credo]

A number of medical professionals have been infected wearing whole-body hazardous materials suits and no one knows how or why. Yeah, fear of an outbreak of the disease in America is all just a right-wing conspiracy.

Oh for dramatic. They were not wearing whole-body suits and certainly not whole-body hazardous materials. They had exposed skin.

There is probably some good educated guesses of how they became contaminated, including, but not limited to, removing the suits/gloves or boots improperly.

[Chicog]

A number of medical professionals have been infected wearing whole-body hazardous materials suits and no one knows how or why. Yeah, fear of an outbreak of the disease in America is all just a right-wing conspiracy.

There is a huge difference between caution and sowing panic, examples of which I gave above.

[thailiketoo]

Pfft I say.

You have Issa demanding more hearings for himself and talking about "Eboli" coming from "Guyana".

Rand Paul, who calls himself a doctor - he's a self-certified ophthalmologist and nothing more - stoking up fears by telling everyone the CDC is deliberately downplaying the threat. And that you could end up with a whole shipload of American military infected.

Ted Cruz demanding more border guards to stop Ebola slipping in from Mexico (!).

Three notable Republicans all talking out of their anal fissures.

And let's not even mention Cruz's staffer who blamed Ebola on Obamacare and then tried to make a joke out of it.

Them and Fox News are trying to blow this up into another "scandal" for the elections - no surprise because they haven't got any others anyone gives a damn about.

Most of the fearmongering comes from the Right, so it's perfectly acceptable to address it in that context.

Rand Paul is a graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine. Duke is a highly respected university. Academically 18th in the world. http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/world-ranking?gclid=CNPmxv-PzcECFQJ9vQod0DkAfw

Why do you make up stuff like, "Rand Paul, who calls himself a doctor - he's a self-certified ophthalmologist and nothing more."

[attrayant]

It's highly misleading if he presents his ophthalmology license as some sort of authority to speak out on infectious disease policy. People might mistakenly think that, since Rand is an MD, that he knows what he's talking about with regard to the Ebola situation when in reality, he might be no better qualified to talk about infectious diseases than somebody with a doctorate in library science.

The situation reminds me of the Terry Schiavo case. Some politician, I forget who at the moment, was asserting his MD credentials in offering his personal diagnosis (that Terry was not irreversibly brain damaged) and using that to base legislative and policy decisions on, even thought he was a heart surgeon - as if his experience in heart surgery was somehow supposed to override the many neurosurgeons who disagreed with him and who assured us that Terry was, in fact, in a persistent vegetative state.

The whole reason we have the CDC in the first place is so that politicians and others have somewhere to go for expert opinions and guidance on matters like this.

Edited October 27, 2014 by attrayant

[JDGRUEN]

I do not read about 'fear mongering' going on via the posts on TVF by anyone... The vast majority of posts here are supplying information direct from news sources about Ebola... Or very often there are those who pose serious questions about truthfulness and forthcoming statements by U.S. Government officials as being believable. I also read questions about the biological and medical nature of the Ebola virus and disease in a number of news articles.

Commenting on or questioning the policies of the American Centers for Disease Control and the obama Administration as to whether they are working or effectively dealing with Ebola is not spreading panic or rumors.

The TVF posters who are the most involved in encouraging blind acceptance of U.S. Government Health policies related to Ebola are actually the ones who are dealing in misinformation. Labeling the posts by TVF members who are critical and skeptical of U.S. Government policies and procedures used in dealing with the Ebola epidemic and how it may effect America as rumor mongers is simply a campaign to shut people up and stop free speech.

I do notice that those who are most adamantly complaining of informational posts made by others - are not posting informative web linked articles about documented events going on with Ebola in the USA - but rather are just sniping and complaining about those who do.

Edited October 27, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

It's highly misleading if he presents his ophthalmology license as some sort of authority to speak out on infectious disease policy. People might mistakenly think that, since Rand is an MD, that he knows what he's talking about with regard to the Ebola situation when in reality, he might be no better qualified to talk about infectious diseases than somebody with a doctorate in library science.

The situation reminds me of the Terry Schiavo case. Some politician, I forget who at the moment, was asserting his MD credentials in offering his personal diagnosis (that Terry was not irreversibly brain damaged) and using that to base legislative and policy decisions on, even thought he was a heart surgeon - as if his experience in heart surgery was somehow supposed to override the many neurosurgeons who disagreed with him and who assured us that Terry was, in fact, in a persistent vegetative state.

The whole reason we have the CDC in the first place is so that politicians and others have somewhere to go for expert opinions and guidance on matters like this.

That would be great if the Center for Disease Control was independent of the political influence of the obama Administration - which it is not -- by far... The CDC as with many arms of the American Government has become nothing more than an information control arm - directly guided by one or another of the Tzars of the obama Administration ... Independent thought among U.S, Government Bureaus died at least 4 to 5 years ago ... and began dealing in Orwellian thought and speak control.

[Chicog]

It's highly misleading if he presents his ophthalmology license as some sort of authority to speak out on infectious disease policy. People might mistakenly think that, since Rand is an MD, that he knows what he's talking about with regard to the Ebola situation when in reality, he might be no better qualified to talk about infectious diseases than somebody with a doctorate in library science.

The situation reminds me of the Terry Schiavo case. Some politician, I forget who at the moment, was asserting his MD credentials in offering his personal diagnosis (that Terry was not irreversibly brain damaged) and using that to base legislative and policy decisions on, even thought he was a heart surgeon - as if his experience in heart surgery was somehow supposed to override the many neurosurgeons who disagreed with him and who assured us that Terry was, in fact, in a persistent vegetative state.

The whole reason we have the CDC in the first place is so that politicians and others have somewhere to go for expert opinions and guidance on matters like this.

Just to clarify: Rand Paul is not even a Board-certified Ophthalmologist. He tried to be, by setting up his own organisation in Kentucky to certify him, but it no longer exists.

He has as much authority to speak on infectious diseases as most posters here.

[thailiketoo]

Just to clarify: Rand Paul is not even a Board-certified Ophthalmologist. He tried to be, by setting up his own organisation in Kentucky to certify him, but it no longer exists.

He has as much authority to speak on infectious diseases as most posters here.

Rand Paul is a graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine. Duke is a highly respected university. Academically 18th in the world. http://www.timeshigh...CFQJ9vQod0DkAfw

How much formal education do you have?

He graduated from Duke Medical School in 1988. Dr. Paul completed a general surgery internship at Georgia Baptist Medical Center in Atlanta and completed his residency in ophthalmology at Duke University Medical Center.

Probably a good idea to acquaint yourself with doctors in the USA before you tell people one has to be board certified to practice medicine. He is a doctor and holds an MD.

Doctor of medicine is an MD degree which Rand Paul has.

[bkkcanuck8]

^ It is a classic case of attacking the messenger instead of the message.

[thailiketoo]

^ It is a classic case of attacking the messenger instead of the message.

While I agree and add any fool can see that a person with an MD degree (a doctor) has the authority to speak of infectious diseases with more certainty than the average poster.

I think the problem lies in that the fellow does not realize most doctors are not board certified for all the things they may do as it is not a requirement to be a doctor.

For example 20 doctors may do nose jobs while only one is a board certified plastic surgeon.

It is a problem when posters try to punch above their intellectual weight.

Edited October 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[JDGRUEN]

I for one appreciate having a few doctors in the U.S. House of Representatives and in the U.S. Senate. Most of the rest are lawyers - so having some medical doctors in political office is a refreshing change - providing a whole different perspective. I would like to see more business people in elected office and far fewer lawyers.

However - when it comes to Ebola or anything like it, if a medical doctor has direct experience in infectious disease treatment and control, or has been a volunteer medical aid working in a Ebola stricken country, or if the doctor is a trained and experienced Epidemiologist - then I will give them some credence in the discussion of Ebola... otherwise - not so much.

Other doctors may know a little more than the average person about infections disease control and Epidemiology but on average not a lot more. Doctors who spent their careers doing gall bladder surgery may not know more about Ebola than a High School Biology teacher - maybe less.

Back in the 1980's during the HIV/AIDS scare - much of it false as put out by the CDC and the UN ... most American doctors knew next to nothing about AIDs or the virology surrounding HIV... but plenty of them would try to convince you they did.

I have spent much time in my earlier life working with doctors and there is nothing their egos will not tell you that they are expert on. No matter the subject that comes up - they will make it known that they know more than you... even if it is subject they have no experience with -- but read about it. As an example I have over 70 parachute jumps with the Army and I have encountered doctors who attempted to lecture me on the subject despite the fact they have never made a parachute jump... Their egos know no bounds.

So when it comes to Ebola - choose your experts wisely.

[JDGRUEN]

Dr. Spencer initially lied about go around town... but his MetroCard got him...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771896-us-advises-against-ebola-isolation/page-4#entry8601715

[F430murci]

Ebola Today: Ebola Patient in NYC Hospital Playing the Banjo; 177 Texans Finish 21-Day Monitoring

http://www.boston.com/health/2014/11/06/ebola-today-facebook-asks-worldwide-network-help-stop-ebola/k9DsQmF58LcE2lpvgPG4YK/story.html

[MJP]

Ebola infections spiking again in Sierra Leone.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/devil-hole-junction-people-flee-ebola/8531

[Chicog]

The US is now officially Ebola free.

Except for them ISIS boys and the Mexican kiddies of course.

[bkkcanuck8]

The US is now officially Ebola free.

Except for them ISIS boys and the Mexican kiddies of course.

No it is not.... it requires the last ebola case to be 42 days ago, and the NY doctor is within that timeframe.

[Chicog]

The US is now officially Ebola free.

Except for them ISIS boys and the Mexican kiddies of course.

No it is not.... it requires the last ebola case to be 42 days ago, and the NY doctor is within that timeframe.

Oh dear, I guess those poor doctors at Bellevue are completely incompetent. You'd better phone them and tell them how rubbish they are.

[Chicog]

The US is now officially Ebola free.

Except for them ISIS boys and the Mexican kiddies of course.

No it is not.... it requires the last ebola case to be 42 days ago, and the NY doctor is within that timeframe.

Well I guess you'd better phone those doctors at Bellevue and tell them you know more about it than they do.

KIPS BAY — Dr. Craig Spencer, the first New Yorker to contract the deadly Ebola virus after a trip to West Africa, was released from Bellevue Tuesday morning with a clean bill of health following a 20-day quarantine, officials said.

Spencer, 33, who lives on 147th Street in Harlem, contracted the virus after an October trip to Guinea where he volunteered with Doctors Without Borders in an effort to contain the deadly epidemic.

He was declared free of the virus after receiving weeks of treatment, health officials said.

[bkkcanuck8]

The US is now officially Ebola free.

Except for them ISIS boys and the Mexican kiddies of course.

No it is not.... it requires the last ebola case to be 42 days ago, and the NY doctor is within that timeframe.

Well I guess you'd better phone those doctors at Bellevue and tell them you know more about it than they do.

KIPS BAY — Dr. Craig Spencer, the first New Yorker to contract the deadly Ebola virus after a trip to West Africa, was released from Bellevue Tuesday morning with a clean bill of health following a 20-day quarantine, officials said.

Spencer, 33, who lives on 147th Street in Harlem, contracted the virus after an October trip to Guinea where he volunteered with Doctors Without Borders in an effort to contain the deadly epidemic.

He was declared free of the virus after receiving weeks of treatment, health officials said.

Declaring an individual free of ebola officially is different than officially declaring a country free from ebola. For a country to be declared officially free of ebola (or any virus) it's last case must have been twice the incubation period (2 x 21 days).

[attrayant]

Was Mr. Spencer considered a national EVD outbreak?

A national EVD outbreak is considered to be over when 42 days (double the 21-day incubation period of the Ebola virus) has elapsed since the last patient in isolation became laboratory negative for EVD.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/2014-west-africa/case-counts.html

[bkkcanuck8]

Was Mr. Spencer considered a national EVD outbreak?

Yes

A disease outbreak is the occurrence of cases of disease in excess of what would normally be expected in a defined community, geographical area or season.

The normal occurrence of cases within the United States is zero.... and last time I took math, 1 > 0.

Maybe you were not that good in math

[attrayant]

Hey I have an idea. It's crazy but it might just work. Let's see if you can make a contribution to a thread without tacking on an insult at the end. m'kay?

If folks could cite their sources then it would be easier to know if posts were personal opinions/feelings (which are in no short supply in these forums) or factual statements from authority. Like this:

A disease outbreak is the occurrence of cases of disease in excess of what would normally be expected in a defined community, geographical area or season. An outbreak may occur in a restricted geographical area, or may extend over several countries. It may last for a few days or weeks, or for several years.

A single case of a communicable disease long absent from a population, or caused by an agent (e.g. bacterium or virus) not previously recognized in that community or area, or the emergence of a previously unknown disease, may also constitute an outbreak and should be reported and investigated.

(emphasis mine) http://www.who.int/topics/disease_outbreaks/en/

So I guess I stand corrected (although I note the presence of the weasel word "may"). However I am still going to place all my bets on the "outbreak" being over now that Spencer has passed the 21 day mark. Anyone want to take that bet?

Edited November 12, 2014 by attrayant