Chula relaxes English proficiency score for engineering programme

[WhizBang]

He said the labour market wanted a large number of top-notch engineers who not only had engineering skills but also had the ability to communicate well in English.

And lowering the english requirement will yield the required 'top-notch' engineers? Am I missing the punch line, or is this just Thai logic? Akin to fewer customers so we must raise prices to maintain profits.

[JoePai]

Who needs English when there is such a plethora of technical books, journals, papers and other educational assets available to students in their native Thai language. One can readily find at least 2 good engineering books that have been printed in Thai! I believe they were translated from the original "Engineering for Dummies". Should be sufficient to educate and train Thai engineers to build one of the tallest buildings in the world.

Yup, lowering the level of English skills is definitely a good idea!

By all means lower the level but also change the name from International School of Engineering program to Thai School of Engineering program

[ruddick]

In 1996 I was working in Bangkok training Thai engineers to install and programme my companies electronic equipment. I taught in English and there was not a problem with me getting the message across.

In 2006 I was again working in Bangkok with the same Thai company. However this time there was a very big difference in the level of English. It was now almost non existent, this is apparently due to the lack of native English speakers to teach them. As the rules for alien teachers have got stricter the number of teachers has fallen.

The result of the above is that the level of English spoken in Thailand is worse now then it was in the 1990s when we had cap year students coming here and working as English teachers.

I am not sure but I think they go to Vietnam now, which would go some way to explain how Vietnam has been improving it's English levels.

At the end of the day engineering is all about mathematics and mathematics is it's own language. Lack of English didn't stop the Chinese invention thousands of years ago.

[retsdon]

I hate to say it but at least there is a minimum score required. In Saudi if a local goes to University he is not allowed to fail.

h

We fail quite a lot of them actually. It depends on the university I suppose......

[retsdon]

Their current requirements are either a 6 in IELTS or a 550 PBT TOEFL score. Either of those scores would get someone onto a US undergraduate course, albeit with a probabable mandatory one semester prep program to complete first.

Droping the entrance requirement to 500 would put Chula on a par with unis n the Middle East. - not great but not disasterous either. But as others have pointed out, the true measuring stick isn't who you allow to start, it's who you allow to finish. No idea how Chula compares on that score...

[toybits]

So, if you can't raise the standard, lower the bar. Seems logical 555.

[kblaze]

Typical. Lower the test score to get more graduates. Only in Thailand!

.

Not so different from California, who has done it for years to enable "stupid" and/or lazy people to get into their universities. California is worse actually, because the stupids take the slots of those more deserving.

Which test are you referring to?

[rickirs]

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Typical. Lower the test score to get more graduates. Only in Thailand! alt=facepalm.gif>

.

Not so different from California, who has done it for years to enable "stupid" and/or lazy people to get into their universities. California is worse actually, because the stupids take the slots of those more deserving.

Knocking your ala mater?

[kblaze]

FYI; the paper based test is hardly used anymore. The TOEFL (test of english as a foreign language) IBT (internet based test) is more commonly used, so one needs to convert the PBT score to the IBT score.

A 550 PBT = 79-80 on the IBT

A 500 PBT = 61 on the IBT

The difference IS HUGE.

Most universities in the states require at least 75+ for international students aiming to enter their undergraduate programs. Masters = 90+. The more prestigious programs, closer to 100.

From my experience the difference between a 61 and an 80 is the difference between a Thai who has very little to no "international" program experience (i.e. they may have had some Westerners teach them English sporadically in school but haven't been part of a real international program) and a Thai who has studied in an international program (most of their classes given in English).

[quandow]

As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee de dee!"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

While their enrollment will go up for sure, their graduation ratio will go down....unless they lower the standard and start acting like a diploma mill.

There is a bit of ambiguity in the original report.

Clearly, they're lowering the English language proficiency level required to gain entrance to their program.

But what's not addressed in the OP, is does Chula have an English language proficiency requirement for those engineering students to GRADUATE from their program, and if so, is that also being changed?

I dont mind so much if Chula is willing to take more students into their program, as long as they're committed to ensuring those who graduate have the requisite skills, both in English and engineering.

However, considering the reputation that Thai students who enter Chula pretty much never are failed for lack of achievement, it probably does in fact mean they'll be turning out more Thai engineers with substandard English skills.

From the language in the OP, it does seem they're only talking about the ADMISSION criteria in terms of English proficiency. No mention at all of the graduation requirement in terms of English proficiency.

Edited November 17, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[arthurwait]

Engineers and languages rarely go well together.

The country has thousands of graduates speaking (Bad) English qualified for nothing of use. The country needs engineers as does the UK. The engineering is far more important to the country than a foreign language with yoghurt knitting.

Here the same as the UK there are simply too many kids going to university wasting 3 or 4 years doing a BA that is completely worthless in the real world, taking an easy option so they and their parents can show off a 'degree'.

The language isn't important.

I wonder how many of the above posters could pass an Engineering degree.

[jpeg]

in my home country is not such thing like english for engineers...for what? they work domestic and if they want to work international they will learn it...

C'mon guys don't take your language too serious!

as next you'll require english proficiency from every street vendor to make it more comfortable for you and you don't have to learn another language...

what is the old saying:if in Rome do as the Romans do....haven't met many english speaking ppl there..

Most European Nationals speak the Approved International Language that is English, as their neighbours of course speak their individual country's languages, predominantly from the Scandinavian countries together with the Dutch, Flemish in order to better communicate with others within the European Union. All the while speaking their native languages within their own societies. IF Thailand is serious about ASEAN then they too must learn said International Language, Thailand being currently at the bottom of the pile in this regard.

Having said that, perhaps the General could persuade those that make up the member states of this SE Asian quorum to sa-peak Chinese, if that would make him feel more comfortable

[godden]

Ah well it could be worse I suppose.

[DaveHKT]

Ah well it could be worse I suppose.

Just one small point...that ain't London Bridge, it's Tower Bridge

[gemini81]

While their enrollment will go up for sure, their graduation ratio will go down....unless they lower the standard and start acting like a diploma mill.

They already are. its the most overrated school here, and according to most professors I've chatted with who work there, quite political and corrupt. On the other hand, institutes like Mahidol put this place to shame.

[Gandtee]

Ah well it could be worse I suppose.

Picky, but the bridge depicted is Tower Bridge not London Bridge. But then Tower Bridge looks more attractive for the kids.

[Jdietz]

“Just think — four years ago I couldn’t even spell injuneer and now I are one”

[BritManToo]

This is the requirement to enter the university. Not to graduate. They will be taught English at university.

Many Thai high schools have horrible English language programs. It is not always the students fault if they have bad English, because their teachers could not speak the language.

The tests are all written,

Funny thing, many of the questions in the tests are, ambiguous, or in very poor English that is almost impossible for a NES to understand or answer.

I was helping some student applicants to CM Uni cheat last year, and there were a lot of questions that were,

1 I could not understand.

2 All the multiple choice answers were correct.

3 None of the multiple choice answers were correct.

(How could they cheat in a test? It was a 2 day testing session, and they were allowed to take the English test papers home to complete overnight)

[joepattaya1961]

Sure, lower the English requirement in order to "help the country." Well, it's not "the country" who is being helped, here, is it?

Well, Chula is really preparing for the AEC where the spoken language will be English.

Another step backwards for Thailand.

[pennine]

not only in Thailand; have a look at the pass rate in South Africa, not to mention the war cry "pass one, pass all".

[harryfrompattaya]

Sure, lower the English requirement in order to "help the country." Well, it's not "the country" who is being helped, here, is it?

Well, Chula is really preparing for the AEC where the spoken language will be English.

Another step backwards for Thailand.

Wait minute I just ask my grandson in a America if they teach Thai in is college and he said What is Thai. But what is more amazing he get about 40,000 in scholarships a year That is a basketball scholarship.

One he is finished with school he going into the family business of bookmaking

So you see he is learning

[outsider]

Why don't you just sell the qualifications for THB10 a piece? That'll be very affordable, you help the country in more ways than one... there will be more enginners, there will be local transactions and the economy will rebound in no time.

[A1Str8]

Chula? Ah i remember. The country's best uni where kids don't have basic historical knowledge.

[DJVillain]

Yes, no , OK -- is that enough ?

Not if they want to work in England its not....

They will need to, at the very least, know:

'Tea break'

'Fancy a cuppa?'

'Sorry mate, going to have to be a nuvva hundred quid because we couldnt get a skip'

'That four thousand quid is only an estimate'

[retsdon]

Engineers and languages rarely go well together.

.... The country needs engineers as does the UK. The engineering is far more important to the country than a foreign language......

The language isn't important.

I raised this exact point at what is an almost exclusively science and engineering program university here in the Middle East. Why not just teach the undergrads the degree material in their native language and save a whole raft of grief and tears? The reply, from an Arabic speaking engineering professor, was that 90 percent of the material which the students need to research and learn is written and produced in English. Consequently there's no option but to learn English.

No doubt the same issue is faced by prospective Thai engineering graduates as it is by Arabic ones.

[eeeya]

I work with Chula engineering grads.. Their english stinks when they first start work (English is the primary language in the workplace) but they learn quickly on the job. They run rings around the expats who dont speak a lick of Thai

[MexicanFarang]

Yet, a 13 year old girl with Karen refugee parents can learn to sing in English with no accent whatsoever.

Maybe the Engineers should learn English by singing Devo songs????

[bangon04]

All part of the grand preparation for the AEC ?

and probably preparation for a "hub" status too

[bkkworker]

After reading the posts for this article, most of the posts, if not all of them, do not deal with the real issue in regard to the matter at hand. International accreditation is not a Thai accreditation; it is an international standard with many organizations offering their own brand of accreditation. In order to understand the true implications of this new policy you would need to know which accreditation the International School of Engineering (ISE) is accredited by.

The accrediting organization is responsible for setting the requirements of admission for the university’s program. There is no need to have any English proficiency at all if you want an engineering degree from a Thai university so criticizing English Proficiency Level (EPL) Test requirements is moot as it is not a requirement.

However, if you want your university to be ‘accredited’ by this-or-that organization (ie: IAO-AIU) then you need to attain certain scores in various entrance examinations. Additionally, you cannot call your university ‘international’ unless it is an unaccredited ‘International’ university. Additionally, these organizations stipulate topics to be studied, credit hours, etc… The Thai MOE has implemented many of the base requirements of western nations into their own regulations, ie: 45 hours of instruction per course in universities in Thailand.

Additionally, universities in Thailand do not need to adhere to international accreditation requirements unless they wish to continue to be accredited by that organization. EPL is not tested leaving universities as a standard. If you have the minimum level entering the university and you get a degree conferred upon you, that’s it. If the accrediting organization gets complaints about a university’s graduates' abilities being sub-par in regard to their standards, then they can revoke accreditation from that university.