US Charge d'affaires summoned in protest of its top diplomat's statement

[Kooweerup]

Putting demands on the U.S The mouse and the lion and if Thailand tries to push the U.S around it may end up getting a back hander.

[sweatalot]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

The position expressed by the US representative was no different than that of any other western country. Are you going to accuse the EU and governments of Norway and Sweden of sticking their noses in other countries affairs?

How is the (now former) Sweden foreign minister Carl Bildt's statement different from the US statement? "I urge an immediate return to civilian government in Thailand, a restoration of democracy, and respect for human rights and freedoms."

.

The Swedish PM Fredrik Reinfeldt stated that " It is of course unacceptable for all military takeovers, especially given that this has happened before." He also called for a return to civilian rule and respect for democratic order.

Are you also calling for the expulsion of the Swedish Ambassador?

The US position has not been very tough and is a lot kinder than that of the EU which spoke on behalf of its member nations. Do you recall what the EU did?

Following a meeting of EU finance ministers, the 28-nation bloc said it was halting the signing of a partnership and cooperation accord with Bangkok “until a democratically elected government is in place”. Expressing the EU’s “extreme concern” at developments in Thailand, the ministers said in a statement that the military should restore “as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections”.They should also free all political detainees and respect human rights and freedoms, they said.

What now? The expulsion of all EU member ambassadors?

This isn't a position exclusive to the USA.

This isn't a position exclusive to the USA.

may be - but based on ignorance or bias or money / connections from Dubai - not on reliable information nor on morale or supremacy

[lewy67]

Apparently old General Prem and his mates on the Privy council and in the King's Guard are having a great giggle at the Tigers of the East massive loss of face. Beware the Ides of March General Prayuth.............

He's gone........

[Thai at Heart]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

... As well as telling the US where they can stick their trade and defence pact. Great idea.

You do realise that whether anyone likes it or not, Thailand needs the US more than the US needs Thailand?

Unfortunately this is true, and the US government uses that to try and control other countries, The US never does anything unless it benefits the US Government in some way. We have gone from being a "Government of the People, by the people, for the people" to a Government of the big corporation/special interest/wall street, by the corporation/special interest/wall street, for the corporation/special interest/wall street." Until the american people realize that and does something to change it then the US will continue to manipulate world politics in a manner that best serves those interests.

I don't care if I live in a democracy, dictatorship, or what ever as long as I have my rightful liberty.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because the law is often but the tyrants will, and always so it violates the will of the individual." Thomas Jefferson.

You see this is where it all gets blurred. Because there was a time when America had an ideological war to fight called communism and it was right on Thailands doorstep.

America rightly or wrongly put its foot in the door in south east Asia and saved thailands ass from being overrun by communists because of the intervention of the USA and other of its allies.

So when everyone is moaning on here about USA intervention just remember if you living in thailand today, the USA had quite an influence on the fact that you are even here at all and that Thailand doesn't resemble some of Thailand's less prosperous neighbours.

[docshock13]

Two reports of 'Attitude Adjustment' on TVF in two days. The other one being the former Prime Minister's lawyer. I wonder if this signals a policy shift to a more 'muscular' position against opposition?

Yes, I believe this is just the beginning of what will be a long and drawn out purge of ANY opposition.

[Chwooly]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

... As well as telling the US where they can stick their trade and defence pact. Great idea.

You do realise that whether anyone likes it or not, Thailand needs the US more than the US needs Thailand?

Unfortunately this is true, and the US government uses that to try and control other countries, The US never does anything unless it benefits the US Government in some way. We have gone from being a "Government of the People, by the people, for the people" to a Government of the big corporation/special interest/wall street, by the corporation/special interest/wall street, for the corporation/special interest/wall street." Until the american people realize that and does something to change it then the US will continue to manipulate world politics in a manner that best serves those interests.

I don't care if I live in a democracy, dictatorship, or what ever as long as I have my rightful liberty.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because the law is often but the tyrants will, and always so it violates the will of the individual." Thomas Jefferson.

You see this is where it all gets blurred. Because there was a time when America had an ideological war to fight called communism and it was right on Thailands doorstep.

America rightly or wrongly put its foot in the door in south east Asia and saved thailands ass from being overrun by communists because of the intervention of the USA and other of its allies.

So when everyone is moaning on here about USA intervention just remember if you living in thailand today, the USA had quite an influence on the fact that you are even here at all and that Thailand doesn't resemble some of Thailand's less prosperous neighbours.

The US domino effect theory is still being debated today, And US intervention in Vietnam didn't stop Lao, South Vietnam, or Cambodia from falling so your statement that the US had any influence on me being here is nonsense

[hanuman2543]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

The position expressed by the US representative was no different than that of any other western country. Are you going to accuse the EU and governments of Norway and Sweden of sticking their noses in other countries affairs?

How is the (now former) Sweden foreign minister Carl Bildt's statement different from the US statement? "I urge an immediate return to civilian government in Thailand, a restoration of democracy, and respect for human rights and freedoms."

.

The Swedish PM Fredrik Reinfeldt stated that " It is of course unacceptable for all military takeovers, especially given that this has happened before." He also called for a return to civilian rule and respect for democratic order.

Are you also calling for the expulsion of the Swedish Ambassador?

The US position has not been very tough and is a lot kinder than that of the EU which spoke on behalf of its member nations. Do you recall what the EU did?

Following a meeting of EU finance ministers, the 28-nation bloc said it was halting the signing of a partnership and cooperation accord with Bangkok “until a democratically elected government is in place”. Expressing the EU’s “extreme concern” at developments in Thailand, the ministers said in a statement that the military should restore “as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections”.They should also free all political detainees and respect human rights and freedoms, they said.

What now? The expulsion of all EU member ambassadors?

This isn't a position exclusive to the USA.

The junta don't care what the Swedish say. At most they take back their ikea. erricsson has long bankrupted.

But junta cares what the US said, because they need to use their M16 and hummer to rule the poor stupid people.

Aren't the Grippen fighter jets not made in Sweden?

[brucec64]

The novice diplomat, Mr. Daniel Russel, is about to get a swift reprimand. Don't send a boy to do a man's work.

It is quite obvious that you are completely uninformed on the details of the visit.

Most of the comments attributed to the Envoy were from a speech given at Chula University. This speech is available on the US State Dept website, and would have been vetted at the highest levels before being delivered. The Envoy's schedule, including meeting Yingluck, was prearranged. Mr. Russel will not be getting any reprimands because he has delivered the exact msaage that the US Government wanted to convey.

Agree or disagree with the message, but this is not a case of a junior diplomat making unofficial remarks.

[Caveat Emptor]

I remember when Thailand's Charge in London was called to the Foreign Office over the KT investigation it was absolutely denied here he had been summoned and that he had simply gone in to explain things.

[lovetotravel]

The novice diplomat, Mr. Daniel Russel, is about to get a swift reprimand. Don't send a boy to do a man's work.

Mr. Russel is hardly a novice, and definitely not a novice with regards to Asia. Do some research first.

[Caveat Emptor]

Didn't PM Prayuth yesterday assured everybody who can't escape listening that he doesn't care and that the relationship between the Junta and the US Government is good? Little White lies or fragile ego?

Relationship between Thailand and the USA is and always will be good.

But this man had no right to interfere into Thailand's politics.

Thailand does not interfere with the USA.

To take advantage of Thai hospitality and tolerance was a bad move on behalf of a representative of the USA.

I hope the PM will take notice and avoid any future, dubious visits from any country that pretends they care about democracy but in fact they only show their ignorance on Thailand's political situation.

He did not interfere in Thailand's politics. Interference would have been providing sanctuary to the former PM or in funding opponents. No one has done that, nor is their intent. Everyone wants the peace to continue, with a return to democracy. He conveyed the position of the US government on the current situation. As I have stated above, the EU has gone further than the USA with its suspension of agreements and co-operations. Are you also demanding that "dubious" visits from EU nations who ALL supported the EU statement, be blocked? Apparently, according to you, the 28 member EU group are ignorant as are Norway, Sweden, Canada and Australia, since they have a position in common. Nice to know.

What you and other do not grasp is that the countries who have spoken out have done so in accordance with their respective nations' long standing positions on the subject, a position that does not target Thailand, but is one in regard to the issue of military coups and the activities associated with them. The statements made are nothing new in the world of foreign affairs. This is why the General was not overly concerned when he didn't have a courtesy call form the American. He knows how it works and I doubt he will lose any sleep over the matter. In a few days, it will be water under the bridge.

Thailand may not interfere in the business of other countries but they certainly don't hesitate to make unauthorised statements on their behalf or for major international organisations as well.

About time some Thai diplomats overseas were called in to explain.

[NCFC]

A big, public slap in the face for the Junta. The truth often hurts.

[webfact]

'What Would America Do?' Thai Junta Asks US Envoy
By Khaosod English


Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha (L) speaking with Gen. Thanasak Patimaprakorn after the latter's meeting with US State Dept official Daniel Russel on 26 Jan 2015.

BANGKOK — Thailand's military junta has denounced a speech made by a senior United States official that criticized the ongoing suppression of human rights in Thailand.

In a talk given at Chulalongkorn University on 26 January, Daniel Russel, the US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, called upon the Thai military to repeal martial law and all restrictions on freedom of expression.

"We are concerned about the significant restraints on freedoms since the coup," Russel said, "Ending martial law throughout the country and removing restrictions of speech and assembly – these would be important steps as part of genuinely inclusive reform process that reflects the broad diversity of views within the country."

According to a spokesperson of the Thai military government, Russel repeated his remarks in a meeting with Gen. Thanasak Patimaprakorn, a member of the Thai junta and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

"As for the demand from the United States that Thailand lift martial law, Gen. Thanasak asked Mr. Daniel, if your country is like ours, with all the factors and restrictions, what would you do without martial law?" said the spokesperson, Maj.Gen. Sansern Kaewkamnerd. "Mr. Daniel could not answer that question, because his country never faced such a situation before."

The Thai military staged a coup against an elected government on 22 May 2014, ostensibly to put an end to the anti- and pro-government protests, and restore order in Thailand. Since seizing power, the junta has invoked martial law to ban public protests, detain individuals without charges or a court warrant, and try detractors in martial courts where appeals are not permitted.

According to Maj.Gen. Sansern, Russel "understood" the situation in Thailand after his meeting with Gen. Thanasak on Monday.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1422430089&section=11&typecate=06


-- Khaosod English 2015-01-28

[bim]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

... As well as telling the US where they can stick their trade and defence pact. Great idea.

You do realise that whether anyone likes it or not, Thailand needs the US more than the US needs Thailand?

Unfortunately this is true, and the US government uses that to try and control other countries, The US never does anything unless it benefits the US Government in some way. We have gone from being a "Government of the People, by the people, for the people" to a Government of the big corporation/special interest/wall street, by the corporation/special interest/wall street, for the corporation/special interest/wall street." Until the american people realize that and does something to change it then the US will continue to manipulate world politics in a manner that best serves those interests.

I don't care if I live in a democracy, dictatorship, or what ever as long as I have my rightful liberty.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because the law is often but the tyrants will, and always so it violates the will of the individual." Thomas Jefferson.

You see this is where it all gets blurred. Because there was a time when America had an ideological war to fight called communism and it was right on Thailands doorstep.

America rightly or wrongly put its foot in the door in south east Asia and saved thailands ass from being overrun by communists because of the intervention of the USA and other of its allies.

So when everyone is moaning on here about USA intervention just remember if you living in thailand today, the USA had quite an influence on the fact that you are even here at all and that Thailand doesn't resemble some of Thailand's less prosperous neighbours.

The US domino effect theory is still being debated today, And US intervention in Vietnam didn't stop Lao, South Vietnam, or Cambodia from falling so your statement that the US had any influence on me being here is nonsense

I agree. Nor did he mention Ford got in bed with Gorki in Soviet Russia to the build the very trucks that were used in Vietnam that transported the weapons that killed young American troops. Nor the US being behind the over throw of some 50 governments since 1945, many of them democracies. Im not anti US just there excectionalism. This guy came to Thailand to stir things up a little me thinks. Because chaos in other countries always suits the US. If so anti communist how is it allowed China to own a huge portion of its debt. Edited January 28, 2015 by bim

[sanuk711]

To me, the man was spot on with what he said. He called a Spade a Spade, and if that doesn't suit your "we love the General/Coup" beliefs, hey, so be it. As Ron Paul clearly stated: "Truth is treason is the Empire of Lies".

Will he be calling a spade a spade as he pays tribute to the new "Unelected" leader of Saudi Arabia, Who whips people for speaking on the internet--& stones women to death. ?..........

.

Or maybe Ron Paul didn't cover that in "Truth is treason"

Edited January 28, 2015 by sanuk711

[Thai at Heart]

The US domino effect theory is still being debated today, And US intervention in Vietnam didn't stop Lao, South Vietnam, or Cambodia from falling so your statement that the US had any influence on me being here is nonsense

You really think that it would have stopped at Thailand's borders? Well anyway, that is my opinion and you have yours. But still, poo pooing America for interfereing when it has basically been Thailands biggest major ally for decades and has had a massive influence on the current status of Thailand in the region is nonsensical.

Thailand would look very very different and I believe undoubtedly worse off today had America not been a significant ally to Thailand

[lovetotravel]

The US, like most western nations, wouldn't end up in this situation due to effective police forces. These countries would never let their capital be paralyzed for months by hundreds of thousands of protesters who were being bombed and killed on a weekly basis. Crazy question to ask the US representative. It's a situation that would never occur.

[Mango Bob]

Time the General sent Mr Russell in for some reeducation classes for a few days. Who the hell does he think he is anyway. Making the leader lose face.

[Thai at Heart]

with all the factors and restrictions, what would you do without martial law?"

Which factors and restritctions are these unique to Thailand?

[casualbiker]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

... As well as telling the US where they can stick their trade and defence pact. Great idea.

You do realise that whether anyone likes it or not, Thailand needs the US more than the US needs Thailand?

Why?

[Chwooly]

The US domino effect theory is still being debated today, And US intervention in Vietnam didn't stop Lao, South Vietnam, or Cambodia from falling so your statement that the US had any influence on me being here is nonsense

You really think that it would have stopped at Thailand's borders? Well anyway, that is my opinion and you have yours. But still, poo pooing America for interfereing when it has basically been Thailands biggest major ally for decades and has had a massive influence on the current status of Thailand in the region is nonsensical.

Thailand would look very very different and I believe undoubtedly worse off today had America not been a significant ally to Thailand

It did stop at Thailand's borders. In 1975 Sai Gon and South Vietnam fell, Cambodia fell under the thumb of Pol Pot, Malaysia was courting China and Chairman Mao. The US was still dealing with Watergate, So it is not a matter of what I think, It is a matter of what actually happened, Thailand was taking in refugees from Lao and Cambodia and held elections in 76 that put more conservatives (non-communists) in office.

I am not poo-pooing the US for interfering, I am saying very clearly that the US Government only does what it's overlords on Wall Street tell it to do even if it is not in the best interests of the American people and that they need to stay out of what is going on here until it effects the american people.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Thai Foreign Ministry guy:

He said he explained to the US charge d’affaires that martial law has no impact on the normal life of the people.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the coup and those behind it, I think this position by the Foreign Ministry is pretty indefensible.

In the normal life of Thai people right now...

--They can't elect their leaders

--They can't read/watch un-self censored news.

--They can't publicly protest against the current government or its policies that they may not like.

..and the list goes on.

That's hardly "no impact."

Unless by normal life, the FM means... going to work, going home, buying food etc etc without too much fear of being shot or bombed. In those regards, normal life has pretty much returned.

All in all, normal life probably is better than it was before the coup, as bad as things had gotten in the months before the coup. But to claim "no impact..... hmmmm.....

[starky]

Didn't PM Prayuth yesterday assured everybody who can't escape listening that he doesn't care and that the relationship between the Junta and the US Government is good? Little White lies or fragile ego?

Relationship between Thailand and the USA is and always will be good.

But this man had no right to interfere into Thailand's politics.

Thailand does not interfere with the USA.

To take advantage of Thai hospitality and tolerance was a bad move on behalf of a representative of the USA.

I hope the PM will take notice and avoid any future, dubious visits from any country that pretends they care about democracy but in fact they only show their ignorance on Thailand's political situation.

Thailand does not interfere with the USA.

[ldiablo]

I wonder if they tried to give Mr. Murphy and attitude readjustment.

[Thai at Heart]

The US domino effect theory is still being debated today, And US intervention in Vietnam didn't stop Lao, South Vietnam, or Cambodia from falling so your statement that the US had any influence on me being here is nonsense

You really think that it would have stopped at Thailand's borders? Well anyway, that is my opinion and you have yours. But still, poo pooing America for interfereing when it has basically been Thailands biggest major ally for decades and has had a massive influence on the current status of Thailand in the region is nonsensical.

Thailand would look very very different and I believe undoubtedly worse off today had America not been a significant ally to Thailand

It did stop at Thailand's borders. In 1975 Sai Gon and South Vietnam fell, Cambodia fell under the thumb of Pol Pot, Malaysia was courting China and Chairman Mao. The US was still dealing with Watergate, So it is not a matter of what I think, It is a matter of what actually happened, Thailand was taking in refugees from Lao and Cambodia and held elections in 76 that put more conservatives (non-communists) in office.

I am not poo-pooing the US for interfering, I am saying very clearly that the US Government only does what it's overlords on Wall Street tell it to do even if it is not in the best interests of the American people and that they need to stay out of what is going on here until it effects the american people.

I think it is a very simplistic view to believe that every action that the US takes is run by the overlords of Wall Street. Yes the US has an economic interest in the region, but, by accusing the USA of acting for financial benefit, do you think that China is helping out around here for the goodness of its heart.

All countries act in their interests, some maybe very short term, some maybe very long term, some maybe for financial benefit principally, others maybe for financial benefit as a derived benefit. Funny thing is, there is one largely true principal that I don't think many of us can argue with. Democracy is the superior form of governance for prosperity, human rights, long term security .........and the list goes on. The amount of long term successful dicatatorships, military juntas, personality cults and everthing else are pretty few and far between.

The USA supports democracy, it likes dealing with democracies, it believes in the long term benefit of democracies. This doens't mean democracy has to be American style democracy.

Many in Thailand don't and they like the notion of a patrician country with very distict class lines and little voice for the little man.

This is where there is an alarming similarity exists between either left wing or right wing dictatorships.

The poor have no voice either way and are dealt a crap hand.

The poor have little voice in poorly run democracies either, but they at least have a mechanism to effect change. The best future for the poor is in a representative well run, monitored and transparent democracy.

This is why the military keep rolling back democracy under the guise of saving the country. The last thing they and their backers want is true representation, and transparency, and any steps towards it must be stopped.

[Suradit69]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

... As well as telling the US where they can stick their trade and defence pact. Great idea.

You do realise that whether anyone likes it or not, Thailand needs the US more than the US needs Thailand?

And comments made by diplomats or officials from the State Department are often more for consumption back in the home country, just the same as summoning the chargé d'affaires is for Thai audiences not with any expectation that the statement would be modified.

In theory the US is always pro "democratically elected governments," unless it serves their purposes to ignore or support non-elected governments ... or if they are election officials in the state of Florida.

Politicians and bureaucrats the world over fashion what they say or do to suit their own immediate needs. Certainly most adults hearing or reading what they say realize that they play each situation for short-term effect.

As the saying goes, "how can you tell if a political figure is lying ... if his lips are moving." And that applies to Farang Land as much or more than in Thailand. As we slide into the run-up to the 2016 US elections or listen to Eurozone politicians defend their stances there will be a lot more than a few "white lies" bandied about.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Suradit69

[Kooweerup]

I wonder if they tried to give Mr. Murphy and attitude readjustment.

apparent they gave it to him because after the meeting with the general he was transformed and understood everything demanded of him. He rolled over to Thainess.

[oneday]

The US never fail to stick there noses in other countries affairs. They should have denied him entry in to the Kingdom.

...and too many other countries just stand around with the fingers up they noses (maybe that's another orifice) doing nothing to stand up for what's right. The US isn't perfect, no country is, but at least we try to defend people who are oppressed; often with the blood of our young people. And I am very proud of my country for going after terrorists wherever they are in the world. What does your country do?

[atsiii]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Didn't PM Prayuth yesterday assured everybody who can't escape listening that he doesn't care and that the relationship between the Junta and the US Government is good? Little White lies or fragile ego?

Relationship between Thailand and the USA is and always will be good.

But this man had no right to interfere into Thailand's politics.

Thailand does not interfere with the USA.

To take advantage of Thai hospitality and tolerance was a bad move on behalf of a representative of the USA.

I hope the PM will take notice and avoid any future, dubious visits from any country that pretends they care about democracy but in fact they only show their ignorance on Thailand's political situation.

You do understand how naive this makes you sound, right Costas?

Perhaps a few moments on your part reading a little post WW2 Thai history might help ...

For better or worse, the Thai military is only as powerful as it is now thanks to the US. Much of the basic infrastructure of this country was also built with US dollars (and much of the less pleasant side). The mess that this nation is in now is in a large part due to US cold war championing of the bad guys in the Thai military.

I know you see things in simple black and white and block out anything that might clash with the world as you see it, but the fact is the US has long been involved in Thai politics and the involvement by the general's totalitarian forebears was much welcomed. To now try and howl "don't interfere" is both dishonest and hypocritical.

Well stated. And I remember reading that during the SE Asian wars, the US created +/- 300 millionaire Thai Generals.

[noitom]

Getting people to say the right things in Thailand is good old style muscle work.