Gold Shop Harassment for "deposit" of 10k

[Cheesekraft]

I was interested in possibly buying 5 baht worth of thai gold, so my girlfriend went to a gold shop in wallarot (two horses if that means anything). She was pressured her into leaving a deposit for the gold

She said we will buy tomorrow (but we were not 100% sure.). somehow, they harassed her into leaving a 10,000 baht deposit and gave a receipt. She is pretty scared and shy in general unfortunately, and the two people scaring her into forcing a deposit, she apparently submitted to their will; she explained like her money was being held ransom. Is this enforceable? Is the gold likely going to be 'legit' still? Is the money gone for good? I am very angry to learn about this, and wondering if that is purely a scam by the shop, or what we can do to get it back and take our business elsewhere.

What would you do?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Cheesekraft

[Chwooly]

Hmmm, I am of 2 minds here, I can see them doing it but at the same time I could see your GF thinking if I leave a deposit then he will definitely get me the gold. (I personally think this is it)

If it is the shop then I would demand my money back and find a new shop as I would always be wondering about their business practices and not want to do business with them.

I

[onthedarkside]

What would I do ?

Never ever leave a deposit for anything. Best of luck getting your 10,000 baht back if you decide not to buy the gold from that shop.

The second I am harassed for a deposit, I am out of there never to return.

[Vacuum]

Chwooly, on 12 Feb 2015 - 11:10, said:

I could see your GF thinking if I leave a deposit then he will definitely get me the gold. (I personally think this is it)

Clever girl.

[Bill97]

Never send someone to do a job they are not suited for, family members included.

[bangmai]

buy the ishares, GLD.....holding physical gold is about like buying a truckload of K rations from military surplus.

[Briggsy]

Unfortunately, your girlfriend will fall for overcharging and pressure sales tactics every time she has money and has the misfortune to meet pushy salespeople. It is her personality type. One of my relatives is the same. Cannot say no. Feels obliged to thank the salesperson for making decisions for her. You can try and train her to say no but she will always tend to her natural default personality. The best plan is for your hand to be firmly on the pursestrings. It is in your girlfriend's interest.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Briggsy

[WorkingTourist]

Is this enforceable? Is the gold likely going to be 'legit' still? Is the money gone for good?

Since the agent asked for a deposit, I assume they do not have it in storage and will need to purchase it on the market.

I also assume that you have no prior established relationship with this agent.

Considering this, the overhead of buying on the market, and the price fluctuations of gold, I think its reasonable to ask for a deposit, as the agent is otherwise taking unnecessary risk, buying gold on your behalf.

The size of the deposit though is high, if you have changed your mind, I doubt you can get the full deposit back, certainly not if the agent has already purchased the requested gold, but if the agent is reasonable, then they would likely refund majority of the deposit.

As for whether or not the gold is legit, that is something we cannot answer without examining the gold, but should it be fake, then surely you can make a claim against the agent.

[bangmai]

agreed. perhaps the deposit gave her a price lock. Gold prices have dropped 10% in one day in the last 2 years.......5 baht would be about 90K +/- so a 10K deposit is more than reasonable. Children should't play with fire.

Edited February 12, 2015 by bangmai

[tyznd]

First, was she at the market where all the gold shops are because if she was she should have been able to find a shop that had 5 baht gold bars on hand. The smaller gold shops won't be carrying 5 baht bars but some will order the 5 baht bar for you and yes, then they will ask for a deposit.

The bigger question is what price did you pay versus that day's sell price? Even with gold bars there is usually a markup involved.

[Cheesekraft]

First, was she at the market where all the gold shops are because if she was she should have been able to find a shop that had 5 baht gold bars on hand. The smaller gold shops won't be carrying 5 baht bars but some will order the 5 baht bar for you and yes, then they will ask for a deposit.

The bigger question is what price did you pay versus that day's sell price? Even with gold bars there is usually a markup involved.

yeah it was in the market with lots of other shops. We paid 19,150 when gold price today is 18862

[bangmai]

usually there is only 200 thb spread on buy/sell at the shops, which is pretty decent.......18,900 buy v. 19,100 sell....a lot better than the bond market, but not as good as the stock market, where the spread would be 1 cent on a 10th of an ounce...or less than 2 thb per baht, but you would have a 7 usd fee added to the buy and/or sell. I'm sure your GFs mother's house is a much safer place to keep it than, say Fidelity Investments with over a trillion usd in assets. GDX is also a good play on gold, as it is an etf of gold miners, who should benefit from lower energy costs.

[Anthony5]

buy the ishares, GLD.....holding physical gold is about like buying a truckload of K rations from military surplus.

And buying Ishares is like buying roll tissue, when it has a comparable value as well.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Anthony5

[bangmai]

Yes, Michael Moore has warned us.

[tyznd]

First, was she at the market where all the gold shops are because if she was she should have been able to find a shop that had 5 baht gold bars on hand. The smaller gold shops won't be carrying 5 baht bars but some will order the 5 baht bar for you and yes, then they will ask for a deposit.

The bigger question is what price did you pay versus that day's sell price? Even with gold bars there is usually a markup involved.

yeah it was in the market with lots of other shops. We paid 19,150 when gold price today is 18862

I see the sell price today is 18950 so adding 200 baht markup would give you 19150 which would be okay and the buy price is at 18850. The 18862 would be a price for jewelry not gold bars. Currently the sell price for Thai gold jewelry is 19350 and the buy price is 18571.

Still a good time to buy gold as the gold price manipulation won't last forever and when it ends the price will skyrocket.

[orang37]

We hope you will excuse us in advance if anything we say here is interpreted by you as somehow casting aspersions of any form on your Lady friend; that is certainly not the intent of either of our mind/souls, Orang, or mere human.

However, we note you describe SWMBO [1] as "shy," perhaps easily suaded, and we consider it a possibility that said SWMBO may have just been "swept away" by a persuasive presentation rather than "harassed." We then go further astray by hypothesizing she may have been hypostatizing the abstraction of an imagined loss as a very real loss should the deposit scenario be declined at the time.

We then assail the gates of the ludicrous by bringing in the concept that the payment of the deposit lead to a projected fear of your possible disapproval, since you were apparently not consulted.

Given these alchemical elements in the soup, who could not see a Thai person contemplating which in the spectrum of the eight primary shades of naa traak, face-break, the wheel-of-misfortune might point to, when it came to a stop ... psychically transmuting the entire reality of what went down as their being the victim of harassment rather than simply a voluntary ?

Your smileage may vary.

~o:37;

[1] SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed)

[Beng]

What would I do ?

Never ever leave a deposit for anything. Best of luck getting your 10,000 baht back if you decide not to buy the gold from that shop.

The second I am harassed for a deposit, I am out of there never to return.

Exactly.

[JulieM]

Unfortunately, your girlfriend will fall for overcharging and pressure sales tactics every time she has money and has the misfortune to meet pushy salespeople. It is her personality type. One of my relatives is the same. Cannot say no. Feels obliged to thank the salesperson for making decisions for her. You can try and train her to say no but she will always tend to her natural default personality. The best plan is for your hand to be firmly on the pursestrings. It is in your girlfriend's interest.

It's a little hard to overcharge when the price is listed on the wall.

Leaving a deposit to buy a small bar of gold is very, very odd. You can buy it anywhere.

Those shops have a reputation to uphold. They aren't going to cheat you. If they do, let us know.

[JulieM]

What would I do ?

Never ever leave a deposit for anything. Best of luck getting your 10,000 baht back if you decide not to buy the gold from that shop.

The second I am harassed for a deposit, I am out of there never to return.

This is an incredibly paranoid opinion coming from the same guy that thinks it is dangerous to use a credit card in Thailand. Of course the shop will give him his money back if he wants it. Have you ever done business with these shops?

Edited February 12, 2015 by JulieM

[amexpat]

Yes, Michael Moore has warned us.

Yes, a Thailander by any other name is still the same.

[Rancid]

Imagine the deposit was to lock in at today's price. Paper gold is easy to trade but seems there is not enough actual gold to back it up so unlike the real deal you wouldn't want to get caught in a collapse.

Some pundits see a further fall in gold price and perhaps then good rise by years end assuming the criminal banks lose control of their price manipulation.

[JulieM]

FYI - I would not assume that leaving a deposit locks in today's price. In fact, I would doubt that they could do that. If they price goes up in the next 24 hours (it just shot up about $8 but that means nothing) expect to pay more.

If the price goes down I would buy at the lower price or demand my deposit back and go buy it next door.

[LivinLOS]

They probably fixed a price.. And gold fell for 2 days straight.. So I assume they were pressuring her to honor a higher than market price based on the price of the day..

Gold has had a pop on the open a little, so that pressure may reduce, its still down over 72 hours tho.

[LivinLOS]

FYI - I would not assume that leaving a deposit locks in today's price. In fact, I would doubt that they could do that. If they price goes up in the next 24 hours (it just shot up about $8 but that means nothing) expect to pay more.

If the price goes down I would buy at the lower price or demand my deposit back and go buy it next door.

Thats clearly not what a deposit does.. A deposit indicates the firm agreement to buy, at a set price.. At teh time of the deal..

If the price rises, they have to honor it.. If the price falls you do.. Given the price was falling they were almost certainly concerned she would try to squirm out of the agreed price..

Any return of the deposit will I am sure come after a deduction in falling price levels, as is fair.. Of course in a rising market I bet they wouldnt hesitate to give the deposit back in full and no one would hesitate to buy the gold.

[LivinLOS]

BTW this isnt a Thai thing either.. I am involved with a large LBMA affiliated gold retail and storage system.. We can operate from grammes to many (100s easily) kilos.

We take a deposit based on a customers purchase, and if the customers full payment doesnt come through we then resell the gold at market rates and the entire costs, including both buy and sale costs for the 2 trades, are deducted from the deposit before any change is returned.

[oneday]

This is classic Thailand. Even Thai people don't care about other Thai people and will apply their high pressure salesmanship to anyone they can get to give them their hard earned baht. I would have gone right back to the shop and asked for the money back. If they don't then call the police. Police might or might not do anything, but sometimes they can help and sometimes the threat is all you need.

If that doesn't work then complain to the NCPO who are supposed to be helping Thai people in these turbulent times.

The other option is to just buy the gold. Make sure you bring a scale to weigh it if you think these people are cheats and then go sell it elsewhere or keep it.

Lastly, you need to teach your girlfriend about life and all the people out there ready to take advantage of you, especially in this country. After 5 years being together, my girl would NEVER allow anyone to pressure her into giving up her money if she didn't want to.

[gandalf12]

Let's be real, the price of the gold will be just over Baht 190,000 so Baht 10,000 is probably because once the shop gets the gold they will have to pay a deposit.

I personally don't think it is unrealistic. As for getting her money back that will depend if they have the gold in the shop when she returns or not. If they do then I would say there is little chance but if not I am sure she will get it back

[Straight8]

What would I do ?

Never ever leave a deposit for anything. Best of luck getting your 10,000 baht back if you decide not to buy the gold from that shop.

The second I am harassed for a deposit, I am out of there never to return.

Exactly.

I would have serious chat to the GF.

Nothing easier than walking away.

Now you are in a dilemma where you are committed to buy or forfeit your deposit.

They can and will say your GF left it willingly, which i kinda get the feeling she did, sorry to say.

[JulieM]

Let's be real, the price of the gold will be just over Baht 190,000 so Baht 10,000 is probably because once the shop gets the gold they will have to pay a deposit.

I personally don't think it is unrealistic. As for getting her money back that will depend if they have the gold in the shop when she returns or not. If they do then I would say there is little chance but if not I am sure she will get it back

What? These shops have lots of gold on hand. You can walk in and out in minutes with the gold in your hand, even if you are buying a lot. They asked for the deposit because they want you to buy it from THEM, not the guy next door or down the street.

[Straight8]

the outcome should be interesting.

IMO it will be a win win for the shop.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Straight8