30 Year Lease Vs Sale

[siddv]

I've been with my TGF almost 3 years. We have lived in a BKK 2 BR high rise condo for those 3 years, we have traveled the world together. She's been presssuring for the house and now I'm ready to shut her up. I'm 48, work in the USA have almost $1 Million USD cash at the ready. I'm in BKK every 3 months for a few weeks. The home in Burin Ram can be built for $2Million BHT. Thats my ceiling and she agrees. Thats about $60K-cheap for me. While I intend to live there and in BKK. I can walk away if I must and consider it payment for her giving my her good years. she is now 27. I do not care if the home is in my name less hassel for me. My question...finally..she has quoted me the land price for what sounds like an acre to be $4500. ( I will inspect in October) She says its large enough to have 2 homes built on it. Remember its in the countryside outside of Buri Ram near the rest of the family. Does this price sound like a 30 year lease or is this for ownership of the land outright? She will own I could care less. If she boots me after a few years I'm free again, If not I have a place to crash/relax call my own in the country. We intend to construct a 3 bedroom home on this property after it is cleared. SOund like ownership to you seasoned ex pats? While I may not be here in 30 years I would rest easire to know she aint getting booted. Thoughts? Thanks

[Jimbo551]

I've been with my TGF almost 3 years. We have lived in a BKK 2 BR high rise condo for those 3 years, we have traveled the world together. She's been presssuring for the house and now I'm ready to shut her up. I'm 48, work in the USA have almost $1 Million USD cash at the ready. I'm in BKK every 3 months for a few weeks. The home in Burin Ram can be built for $2Million BHT. Thats my ceiling and she agrees. Thats about $60K-cheap for me. While I intend to live there and in BKK. I can walk away if I must and consider it payment for her giving my her good years. she is now 27. I do not care if the home is in my name less hassel for me. My question...finally..she has quoted me the land price for what sounds like an acre to be $4500. ( I will inspect in October) She says its large enough to have 2 homes built on it. Remember its in the countryside outside of Buri Ram near the rest of the family. Does this price sound like a 30 year lease or is this for ownership of the land outright? She will own I could care less. If she boots me after a few years I'm free again, If not I have a place to crash/relax call my own in the country. We intend to construct a 3 bedroom home on this property after it is cleared. SOund like ownership to you seasoned ex pats? While I may not be here in 30 years I would rest easire to know she aint getting booted. Thoughts? Thanks

One Acre = 4,840 sq yards = 4047 sq metres = 2.53 Rai

$4,500 @ 37.53 = Baht 168,885

One Rai therefore = 66,753 Baht

I do not know the price of land in that area but perhaps someone who does can advise more accurately. I personally doubt at this level there is going to be much difference in value between a freehold price and a leasehold. The leasehold should be cheaper, but I doubt if it will be.

Having in mind your philosophy re the relationship, may I suggest that you buy the land in her name with a lease back for 30 years to you. You can build the house with your money and own it. Then it puts you in a slightly stronger position if the relationship fails than if everything was wholly in her name.

[pnustedt]

Does this price sound like a 30 year lease or is this for ownership of the land outright? She will own I could care less.

It sounds like the land is for sale outright - no lease. You/she can check the house documents with the vendor at the local amphur.

I've been in a similar position not far away (Sisaket) where my wife has bought several plots which are suitable for building. If you are serious about building on it check it out for services, height above water plain (may need raising), etc.

Buying land does seem to give Thai women a sense of security and appears to be a reasonable investment. I didn't bother with lease back arrangements - if the relationship went belly up I wouldn't have any use for the land.

[Dragonman]

I doubt anyone in that area would lease land for 30 years. Land is usually for a yearly rental for agriculture, or freehold sale for building! These 30 year leases are mainly farang led. A thai would not be interested, as the worth and prestige is in the Land Ownership.

[siddv]

I doubt anyone in that area would lease land for 30 years. Land is usually for a yearly rental for agriculture, or freehold sale for building! These 30 year leases are mainly farang led. A thai would not be interested, as the worth and prestige is in the Land Ownership.

Ok guys thanks much for your insight. So does 1-2 million bht build a decent looking place out in these hinterlands? She seems ok with the ceiling I have imposed and says it will. Thanks again.

[Dragonman]

I doubt anyone in that area would lease land for 30 years. Land is usually for a yearly rental for agriculture, or freehold sale for building! These 30 year leases are mainly farang led. A thai would not be interested, as the worth and prestige is in the Land Ownership.

Ok guys thanks much for your insight. So does 1-2 million bht build a decent looking place out in these hinterlands? She seems ok with the ceiling I have imposed and says it will. Thanks again.

Should be fine. Mine was only 1.2 million for build, furniture and security.

[Thaipwriter]

The price quoted for the land sounds cheap. you will probably have to get it filled up and electricity / water / roads brought in / connected.

2 million baht will pay to construct a 4 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 story home of about 180 - 200 sq meters fully funished with air cons in Buriram.

[Charma]

We built our four bed house a few years back for less than a million. To do that you will need to keep a close watch on materials. The more western standard stuff you buy the higher the cost will be. Check out the forum - there is a lot of info on building projects and some excellent blogs (Jai Dee springs to mind).

I agree with others that in your situation, buying the land in the wife's name is the best option as it is only a fraction of your total assets and not really a great risk for you.

[udon]

The price quoted for the land sounds cheap. you will probably have to get it filled up and electricity / water / roads brought in / connected.

2 million baht will pay to construct a 4 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 story home of about 180 - 200 sq meters fully funished with air cons in Buriram.

Hi Thaipwriter,

do you have any pics of a house fitting that description?

[backflip]

Dragonman,

"These 30 year leases are mainly farang led. A thai would not be interested, as the worth and prestige is in the Land Ownership." Since the Thai would retain the ownership of the land, why would a Thai not be interested in leasing the land? The person who leases the land has no claim of ownership.

[LoveDaBlues]

backflip - not trying to flame or disrespect you....but do you actually live full time in Thailand or just make periodic visits? Based on your post this is an honest question.

In the 'boonies' all over Thailand there is a VAST AMOUNT of land to be had (purchased) at the price quoted. I think the OP is a little confused and his GF knows what is going on. This seems to be a simple purchase of land (in the GF's name) and then the OP gets a 30 year lease from the GF. SOP.

I've never seen/heard of a 30 year lease in the 'boonies' where after 30 years the property reverts back to the original owner; in other words there is alwaya a 'sale' and then a 'lease'. In this way the property/house stays with the family who have resided there for the last 30 years.

To the OP: GET A 30 YEAR LEASE FROM THE GF BEFORE YOU BUILD THE HOUSE.

Edited August 27, 2006 by LoveDaBlues

[LoveDaBlues]

OP - I was just in a newly finished house of 185 sq. meters (in the boonies). Granite floors (imported from China) throughout. NO A/C. Kitchen nice with granite countertops as well. 1.3M baht for the house only and not including land.

For 2M baht you can have a NICE place built; but with few exceptions ONLY IF YOU ARE THERE EVERY DAY for various reasons.

[LoveDaBlues]

Does this price sound like a 30 year lease or is this for ownership of the land outright? She will own I could care less.

It sounds like the land is for sale outright - no lease. You/she can check the house documents with the vendor at the local amphur.

I've been in a similar position not far away (Sisaket) where my wife has bought several plots which are suitable for building. If you are serious about building on it check it out for services, height above water plain (may need raising), etc.

Buying land does seem to give Thai women a sense of security and appears to be a reasonable investment. I didn't bother with lease back arrangements - if the relationship went belly up I wouldn't have any use for the land.

Yea but you've got more money than Donald Trump.

[thaigene2]

Not sure of the price of building, but land is very cheap in most places up country - esp Isaan. About 30,000 USD would buy you enough to build a couple of houses on.

Have you considered that your young GF's family could move in as well? Do you think she's going to live there alone waiting for you?

Other posters in the past have wisely pointed out that your home should be near enough for occasional visits by her family - but far enough away to discourage them being around all the time.

For many farang/asian expat husbands, the issue is not so much a 30 year lease for you to stay there (if the marriage fails you're not going to want to stay anyway). It's more to do with finding a way that she can't sell the asset to pocket the cash a year later. (e.g. you buy, build, she dumps you then sells to get at the cash). See the other posts for more - but it seems you've got lots of dosh so perhaps this isn't an issue.

[udon]

Have you considered that your young GF's family could move in as well? Do you think she's going to live there alone waiting for you?

Other posters in the past have wisely pointed out that your home should be near enough for occasional visits by her family - but far enough away to discourage them being around all the time.

Well put & important. Go for 50Km minimum

[LoveDaBlues]

Have you considered that your young GF's family could move in as well? Do you think she's going to live there alone waiting for you?

Other posters in the past have wisely pointed out that your home should be near enough for occasional visits by her family - but far enough away to discourage them being around all the time.

Well put & important. Go for 50Km minimum

I 2nd this. I live 90Km from the TW family. A farang friend built his TW a house in the village.....mistake; the parents moved in.

It seems the family normally won't leave the village to 'move in' with the farang and TW but they will move in if the home is built in the village.

[LoveDaBlues]

To the OP - your info sounds a little 'sketchy'. Your GF says the land is big enough to put 2 houses on it and you glean from that it's roughly an acre.

I'm guessing much less than an acre probably around 1 rai or less. These 'deals' usually involve buying the land from a family member lol. Anyway remember the Thai will build 2 houses side by side on a very small plot of land and be happy.......

[Dragonman]

Dragonman,

"These 30 year leases are mainly farang led. A thai would not be interested, as the worth and prestige is in the Land Ownership." Since the Thai would retain the ownership of the land, why would a Thai not be interested in leasing the land? The person who leases the land has no claim of ownership.

The point being that no thai would want to pay say 2million baht for a lease, when they could purchase the freehold for the same amount. Also someone not actually owning the property is seen as accepting you are at a lower class than the owner. Hence there is no market for residential leases in the thai ownership market.

Leases are accepted by the Government as being suitable for foreigners, and this is why despite the Ministry of Interior suggesting 50 year leases, the Senate reduced it to 30 years. Why they did this I don't know, as the glut of people now applying for usufructs/habitations/superficies obviously means that the Senate lawyers were not aware of these clever 2100 year old devices, or they would all have gone down the pub rather than considering the matter.

[siddv]

Wow thanks for all of the information! It is very helpful. Turns out that the land is just shy of 2 rai. The price is being negotiated but will be @ 150,000 BHT. I took no replies as a flame but the 30 year lease issue was my silly question not hers. I just wanted to determinne that she knew what she was doing and was actually buying the land. From the replies sounds like this is an outright purchase. I am not interested in a lease back. I'm sure there is lots of land in Thailand to be had but her family lives nearish Buri Ram so that's the area I'm interested in. I have no retirement plans at the moment and still operate a US business that allows me to be in Thailand every 3 months for 2-3 weeks and more during the holidays. I have a 2 BR condo off Rachada. The GF will be in charge of the details and is meeting with her architect this week in BKK. I'll let you all know how it goes. Sounds like 1.5-2 million BHT might do the trick.

[astral]

Just remember the old adage.

Do not invest more money in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from.

[steveromagnino]

Wow thanks for all of the information! It is very helpful. Turns out that the land is just shy of 2 rai. The price is being negotiated but will be @ 150,000 BHT. I took no replies as a flame but the 30 year lease issue was my silly question not hers. I just wanted to determinne that she knew what she was doing and was actually buying the land. From the replies sounds like this is an outright purchase. I am not interested in a lease back. I'm sure there is lots of land in Thailand to be had but her family lives nearish Buri Ram so that's the area I'm interested in. I have no retirement plans at the moment and still operate a US business that allows me to be in Thailand every 3 months for 2-3 weeks and more during the holidays. I have a 2 BR condo off Rachada. The GF will be in charge of the details and is meeting with her architect this week in BKK. I'll let you all know how it goes. Sounds like 1.5-2 million BHT might do the trick.

At that price should be in the middle of the town or a village; my family owns a fair few rai in Buriram (10,000 rai approx) and most of that has been purchased in the middle of no where for prices ranging from 3,000 - 12,000b per rai.

But in larger sizes than 2 rai mind you...

specifically for that price:

ajoining a significant road

has power and water to the curb

has already been built up or is of reasonable height

I'd be wanting to see what is next to your site.

Lots of slummy areas in Buriram with a single nice house built by some farang guy plonked awkwardly in the middle. Not sure I'd be wanting to live like that; better to buy in a nicer area in the city itself; around Thanon Jira for instance. If you don't speak Thai and like living in a village I'd be at a loss as to what you intend to do all day; mind you at the rate Buriram is going, the whole town will be full of English, Australian and American guys for you to talk to I guess ;-) But in the meantime, I'd be considering a house already built in the city itself. Simpler and nicer.