No green book, but bike has an invoice - what does this mean?

[darkian]

Can somebody please tell me what the use of an 'invoice' is, and what it means? I know that it's not desirable to have a bike without a green book, but I wondered why people offer them with invoices. Does this mean that some kind of import duty was paid? Is it a second best to having a green book, or is it worthless?

Thanks!

[MYKTHEMIN]

No green book, walk away.

[darkian]

Thanks, that's usually good advice, but I'm looking at buying a bike for off-road use on private farmland, so it's largely irrelevant.

My question was more out of curiosity.

[finnomick]

What this means is that the IMPORT DUTY has been paid ( at least ). You must also be sure you have a receipt for EXCISE DUTY. If you have both these receipts, you can keep and use the bike but it is unlikely you will get a ' green book '. Wherever you ride the bike, you must be able to produce these TWO receipts if stopped by either/and the police and customs and excise. You will not be able to tax the bike. You can insure it though. If you only have the IMPORT DUTY paid invoice and get caught by Customs and Excise, be prepared for a large fine. They will then do one of two things. First they may confiscate the bike and invite you to their office to pay the EXCISE DUTY plus fine. Or two, if they are in a good mood, they will let you keep the bike but you must go to their office and pay the EXCISE DUTY plus fine. Word of warning. They will base the excise duty on a current new model with the same size engine, even if the bike is ten years old you will pay ' todays ' value. This can work out very expensive.

Whatever happens, make sure the bike has the right numbers. Many of these imported bikes have come into the country in pieces.

Also be aware that Customs and Excise have ' people ' ( for want of a better word ) who report owners of big bikes to them for a cash fee. Then one day the Customs and Excise will visit your home, usually with about 6 officials. They then proceed to stick their noses everywhere.

Having been on the receiving end of two of these visits, I can assure you that the costs and fines can actually put you into a negative value on your bike. If you've been reported and can produce both receipts, the customs boys will snoop around then leave but they will remember you.

[darkian]

That's really helpful, thanks a lot.

So if an imported bike has a legitimate green book (engine and frame numbers match, bike is taxed and insured yearly with no issue), does it still need to come with tax invoices, or does the existence of a valid green book indicate that all duties were paid?

Thanks!

[tomyumchai]

technically, a green book trumps invoice papers....however green books can be recycled from scooters or whatever. ive spent years coo-ing over cheap big bikes with no green book or a green book that states the cbr1000 is actually a 1 cylinder honda wave. i havnt bought any. walk away or ride it with a view to losing it in a traffic stop. when you see traffic cops riding xj1300r's and fireblades on their wages think about how they got those bikes......

i recently viewed a restored vw camper with blue book and copy of thai owners ID......all ready to change into my name! i got the book translated and it ended up still belonging to a muang government office from 10 years back...... the book had expired, the bus owed 10 years back tax meaning it could not possibly be transferred into my name without costing me a fortune....and most likely losing it anyway.

[ToddinChonburi]

The Green Book also shows the taxes have been paid in the back of the book. Make sure up to date.

[ToddinChonburi]

There is a lot of stolen bikes trying to be sold, probably a fake invoice.

[andrewrooney]

In the past cops may have been a bit more tolerant of invoice bikes, but that seems to have changed. Personally I wouldn't touch any bike without a green book unless it's going to be strictly for off-road use or a track bike.

And yeah, definitely make sure numbers match and taxes have been paid, as mentioned.

[Vogele123]

Years back the maximum displacement for a motorbike here was about 200CC, anything over that could not be registered easily. Hence the "Invoice" - this was apparently the way around owning larger bikes.

As an earlier poster mentioned, if it does not have a Green Book, WALK AWAY!

If you buy a bike on an invoice you will end up with no end of headaches, it will probably cost you 100K Baht to get it legally registered here (plate and possible fake Green Book) Now that Thailand is selling legal bigger bikes there is absolutely no reason to touch these bikes with a bargepole!

I bought one and believe me it cost an arm and a leg when I got pulled by the cops, don't for one minute think because you have an "Invoice" that it means you can use the bike on the roads, you can end up losing the bike and a great deal of money in the process - WALK AWAY is the best advice!

The current laws allow you to buy a bigger bike at a normal price, there is no longer any reason to even consider trying to own a bike on an "Invoice" you are risking losing the bike.

[darkian]

Thanks for all the comments. As above this was more out of curiosity. I agree that for road riding it's probably best to have the green book, although I know plenty of people who don't and I'm yet to hear of any of them having their bikes seized. I don't doubt that it happens though.

[Vogele123]

Thanks for all the comments. As above this was more out of curiosity. I agree that for road riding it's probably best to have the green book, although I know plenty of people who don't and I'm yet to hear of any of them having their bikes seized. I don't doubt that it happens though.

Your bike will be seized when they fancy it! I had an old XLR250, they seized it at a traffic stop, it cost me in the region of 15000 Baht in Coffee, Beer and outright bribes to get the bike back before the crooked cops who took it had it painted and flogged on - the bike was only worth about 35K. Depends where you are, personally, I just would not risk it anymore, you can get a real messing over if you rely on the invoice - don't touch it!

(The vice head cop at the Ampur I had the bike seized just told me to get a green book and tax, knowing there was no way to do this. Luckily, his boss wanted to learn a bit of English and gave me the bike back after paying 400 Baht for no bike license 1200 Baht for some other fine (maybe road tax?) this was after paying all of the other cops the 14K!

From what I can gather from the locals here is that if the cops seize the bike and you do not settle everything in a certain time frame (maybe a month) then they can sell the bike on, that is what they tried to do with mine. Luckily, the head bloke was half decent and let me pay a few fines and get the bike back - he even sent 2 cops down to help me get it on the back of the pick up!

[Duindam]

Wrong, any motorcycle confiscated in Thailand for TAX or even traffic violations become in the end the property of the revenue department. The revenue department has auctions several times per year where they sell the vehicles that are confiscated.

The original owner of a motor vehicle has 1 year, after he was officially informed to fix the issues, after the 1-year the revenue will look what the value of the vehicle is and will sell it at a public auction where everybody who has a Thai TAX number and relative business can try to buy the vehicles....

Some police from rural police stations who confiscate so called invoice motorcycles from which the owner cannot even proof he is the owner end up as being used inappropriate by police officers... But it's now-a-day hard to find any police to ride a bike like that...

What you see in Bangkok often is a police officer riding a motorcycle without license plate, this doesn't mean that the motorcycle was taken from somebody … It means that the police officer is using his own motorcycle/scooter, which has civilian license plates on it but he removed them so people cannot find out what his home address is...

[off road pat]

Thanks for all the comments. As above this was more out of curiosity. I agree that for road riding it's probably best to have the green book, although I know plenty of people who don't and I'm yet to hear of any of them having their bikes seized. I don't doubt that it happens though.

Up to you,...You have been warned by people who know a lot about those things....! now, if you like to play with fire ?

[SDM0712]

As a suplimenrary, although not strictly relevant to this thread, anyone offered a used bike with a green book could call the Vehicle Dept and just get them to check on their database that the book serial number does match what it is supposed to be. There's a lot of fake books out there.

SDM

[Disting]

Totally agree with all that is written above.

You should also take into account any re sale value if that bothers you. More and more people will not touch a bike unless I has a legit green book. If you want one for off road or a dedicated track bike and you are going to keep it til it dies or are prepared to sell it for next to nothing in a few years time then go for it. Just make sure you pay real silly cheap money for it. All of Thailand knows the laws are slowly changing and owning an unregistered bike will get harder and harder. You can negotiate and pick up something nice if you take note of all said above.

[andrewrooney]

Thanks for all the comments. As above this was more out of curiosity. I agree that for road riding it's probably best to have the green book, although I know plenty of people who don't and I'm yet to hear of any of them having their bikes seized. I don't doubt that it happens though.

Depending on what area you're in, you may get away with it for awhile. Often times they'll let people go with a little tea money, etc.

I've personally met two people who have had their bike seized for no registration. One was a farang guy who had a Fino taken by the cops in Phuket, the other was a Thai guy who lost his CBR400 (in Nonthaburi if I remember correctly).

The trend seems to be that they're getting stricter about this kind of thing.

[apetley]

A friend of the family has quite a high rank in the Kanchanaburi DLT. I've talked to her a couple of times about trying to register an invoiced bike and the reply is that there is no chance.

Real shame because I recently found a fantastic cb1300 and a nice BMW1200 has just appeared in the small ads. They'd be great if you could get them registered but these days?.........nah.

[TheRoadWarrior]

Wrong, any motorcycle confiscated in Thailand for TAX or even traffic violations become in the end the property of the revenue department. The revenue department has auctions several times per year where they sell the vehicles that are confiscated.

if the bikes/cars that they confiscate arent legal to drive... then how do they later auction them off?

wont the new owner just get it confiscated again?

or does the revenue department legalize them before they sell them?

got a link to the auction site?

[andrewrooney]

Wrong, any motorcycle confiscated in Thailand for TAX or even traffic violations become in the end the property of the revenue department. The revenue department has auctions several times per year where they sell the vehicles that are confiscated.

if the bikes/cars that they confiscate arent legal to drive... then how do they later auction them off?

wont the new owner just get it confiscated again?

or does the revenue department legalize them before they sell them?

got a link to the auction site?

They create a green book before the bike is auctioned.

Buying an auction bike is a bit scary though...

I know a cop in my wife's town that has been driving around a confiscated Ninja 300 as if it were his own personal bike, and he's dropped it (at least) twice.

Other bikes sit in the police lockup for two or even three years before they get auctioned off. Just sitting out there ignored through sunshine, rain, floods, etc. then once every couple years a big truck comes, they cut all the overgrown foliage off the bikes and haul them off to be auctioned.