Dannyboysyd Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 and these Vegan bodybuilders and powerlifters take in about 0.5 to 1 gram, they look great and are strong as <deleted>.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 and these Vegan bodybuilders and powerlifters take in about 0.5 to 1 gram, they look great and are strong as <deleted>.. If it is true (I am not saying it is not true)....But there is so much lying in bodybuilding that I just doubt everything.... Edit: I just noticed you speak about gram/pound not gram/kg. 1 gram / pound isn't that low it is 2 gram/kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboysyd Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes I put 0.5 to 1g per pound, so and 80kg person can take in between 80-160 grams of protein per day, which is plenty, the upper amount might be more suitable to bodybuilder, but they average guy who works out to get strong and fit could easily get by on 80 grams.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes I put 0.5 to 1g per pound, so and 80kg person can take in between 80-160 grams of protein per day, which is plenty, the upper amount might be more suitable to bodybuilder, but they average guy who works out to get strong and fit could easily get by on 80 grams.. yes exactly what I wrote.....0.8-2 gram per kg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 i would also be very upset paying so much money for pig food , why not use plant proteins likeHemp ( the only complete plant protein) or Pea ? because it does not come in tubs with big muscle men on it? does not mean that it does not deliver the required protein to the body ....here is the whey business model ...find a cheap waste by product , pay next to nothing for it ,does not require FDA scrutiny , process it and add whatever you need to make it last a longtime and taste sweet , package it in cool looking containers with paid models on the front , promote the hell out of it in magazines , fund your own research and write stories on how good it is , sell it at a massive profit ..... You failed to answer my question that countered your remark that Whey protein isn't categorized as food. Is you superior, though incomplete, pea protein or hemp protein categorized as food or medicine by the FDA. I assume that you also don't eat pork, chicken or fish, or any other meat for that matter, because that would mean you eat that inferior product called whey protein they have fed them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 i would also be very upset paying so much money for pig food , why not use plant proteins likeHemp ( the only complete plant protein) or Pea ? because it does not come in tubs with big muscle men on it? does not mean that it does not deliver the required protein to the body ....here is the whey business model ...find a cheap waste by product , pay next to nothing for it ,does not require FDA scrutiny , process it and add whatever you need to make it last a longtime and taste sweet , package it in cool looking containers with paid models on the front , promote the hell out of it in magazines , fund your own research and write stories on how good it is , sell it at a massive profit ..... You failed to answer my question that countered your remark that Whey protein isn't categorized as food. Is you superior, though incomplete, pea protein or hemp protein categorized as food or medicine by the FDA. I assume that you also don't eat pork, chicken or fish, or any other meat for that matter, because that would mean you eat that inferior product called whey protein they have fed them anyway. Well the pigs gain muscles with whey protein, so if it works with pigs it should work for me as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheron Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... What means "not recognized"? of course it will absorbed and used by the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. Exactly, you always need amino acids to repair things and there is a permanent change, so you always need amino acids. Specially the liver needs it. If you don't eat enough you need to take it from the muscle to survive. If you eat less or just less carbohydrates the body makes sugar from amino acids...not enough protein....take it from the muscles. Of course if you are well fed and don't make any sport you can continue with less protein intake, specially if you are older. But that is not what we want....to sit well fed lazy on the couch. Animal protein is the best protein..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheron Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. Exactly, you always need amino acids to repair things and there is a permanent change, so you always need amino acids. Specially the liver needs it. If you don't eat enough you need to take it from the muscle to survive. If you eat less or just less carbohydrates the body makes sugar from amino acids...not enough protein....take it from the muscles. Of course if you are well fed and don't make any sport you can continue with less protein intake, specially if you are older. But that is not what we want....to sit well fed lazy on the couch. Animal protein is the best protein..... The issue of the body starting to "eat" (wrong word but meh..) your muscles on very low carb diet can be avoided by going very high, as in 75%+, of you calories coming from fat and the rest from protein. The body will after a while (very different time table for all humans but "normally" within a week or so) turn into only using ketons (which come from fat) as "fuel". As it is far easier for the human body to convert fat into "fuel" then it is turning protein into fuel it will always do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. Exactly, you always need amino acids to repair things and there is a permanent change, so you always need amino acids. Specially the liver needs it. If you don't eat enough you need to take it from the muscle to survive. If you eat less or just less carbohydrates the body makes sugar from amino acids...not enough protein....take it from the muscles. Of course if you are well fed and don't make any sport you can continue with less protein intake, specially if you are older. But that is not what we want....to sit well fed lazy on the couch. Animal protein is the best protein..... The issue of the body starting to "eat" (wrong word but meh..) your muscles on very low carb diet can be avoided by going very high, as in 75%+, of you calories coming from fat and the rest from protein. The body will after a while (very different time table for all humans but "normally" within a week or so) turn into only using ketons (which come from fat) as "fuel". As it is far easier for the human body to convert fat into "fuel" then it is turning protein into fuel it will always do just that. well, yes and no. The body needs glucose (sugar) for for the brain, heart, liver, general use, etc etc. If you stop eating at all or stop eating carbs there is no glucose. First of all the liver has saved 2000 kcal on glucose which it will release. Muscles have saved it but they don't release it. Than after 2-3 days you switch into ketone body burning. Which SLOWLY replaces glucose burning in the heart brain, etc. After a week a good part is ketone bodies but you further optimize, after 1 month it is even more. But you can replace only 70, maybe 75% of the glucose with ketone bodys. For the remaining 25-30% the liver changes amino acids into sugar. To prevent that you eat your muscles, you can a) add a tiny amount of carbs after 1-4 weeks. you simply eat more protein so the liver can do it from the surplus protein, don't need your muscles But if you have fat on your belly you don't need to eat more fat, because there is no shortage of fat....you simply eat your beer belly. So if you want to loose fat fast you first stop eating any carbs. But you eat fat and protein whatever you like. You do weight training but not too crazy. After a while (which differs from person to person) when you feel OK with the diet you start to reduce the fat. Than you'll loose weight very fast without (much) hunger. Downside: there is not much you can eat...chicken breast, can of tuna in water, protein drink, salad, no fat yoghurt. That will be so boring that after a while you would rather drop meals than eating that crap and than you are on a slippery way to overdoing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Wow look what I just found about your wonder protein, and that by a site that's promoting vegan protein http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/best-protein-powders-for-vegetarians-and-vegans/slide/6 Like brown rice protein, a yellow pea powder isn’t going to contain all of the essential amino acids you need for muscle building. But if you’re lactose intolerant or allergic to soy, it’s worth adding to your more limited rotation. “A lot of studies show that it can prevent hypertension and kidney disease,” says White. Just pair it with another protein source, such as beans, quinoa or tofu, to make it complete, and use it in moderation, says White. “It may cause calcium to leak out of the bones due its affect on uric acid levels in the body—which can lead to flare ups for people with gout,” he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... What means "not recognized"? of course it will absorbed and used by the body. not recognized by the FDA .....your body recognizes it as sugar ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 anthony .... the discussion is about whey ...the less processed the better ... you make your own choice .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. have you tried it ? or do you just read about it ? you may be surprised !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... What means "not recognized"? of course it will absorbed and used by the body. not recognized by the FDA .....your body recognizes it as sugar ... I am not American so I don't care what the FDA recognize or not. My body recognize proteins as proteins not as sugar....Protein and Sugar is something complete different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. have you tried it ? or do you just read about it ? you may be surprised !!! I didn't try yet if you are really dead when jumping off a cliff.....still I am sure it is deadly. Fat can't replace protein. That is scientifically very sure and no one doubts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheron Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 whey is not recognized due to the massive amount of processing it goes through prior to humans ingesting it .... Pea and Hemp are plant proteins, not from an animal ...so yes Pea and Hemp is real food !!! as for my diet ... i eat well ...but i never touch anything CP produces...again i can understand how pissed off you may be over spending so much money on useless supplements , but the goods news there are lots of natural alternatives to whey ....here is a free tip # increase your good fats ....then your muscles will have a safety barrier if your low on fuel .... Errr... what? If person X isn't eating enough protein then the body will catabolize muscles to get amino acids regardless how much or what kind of fat you eat. Even if you in some bizarre and misinformed way are talking about keto diet then you are still wrong as saturated fats are used first as fuel in a keto diet. have you tried it ? or do you just read about it ? you may be surprised !!! I rather not let my muscles, that i have worked pretty damn hard for, go to waste to prove something to you that has already been proven many times. Here are some very undisputed facts: Fat is not protein or vice versa which in turn means -> fat can never ever build muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheron Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 well, yes and no. The body needs glucose (sugar) for for the brain, heart, liver, general use, etc etc. If you stop eating at all or stop eating carbs there is no glucose. First of all the liver has saved 2000 kcal on glucose which it will release. Muscles have saved it but they don't release it. Than after 2-3 days you switch into ketone body burning. Which SLOWLY replaces glucose burning in the heart brain, etc. After a week a good part is ketone bodies but you further optimize, after 1 month it is even more. But you can replace only 70, maybe 75% of the glucose with ketone bodys. For the remaining 25-30% the liver changes amino acids into sugar. To prevent that you eat your muscles, you can a) add a tiny amount of carbs after 1-4 weeks. you simply eat more protein so the liver can do it from the surplus protein, don't need your muscles But if you have fat on your belly you don't need to eat more fat, because there is no shortage of fat....you simply eat your beer belly. So if you want to loose fat fast you first stop eating any carbs. But you eat fat and protein whatever you like. You do weight training but not too crazy. After a while (which differs from person to person) when you feel OK with the diet you start to reduce the fat. Than you'll loose weight very fast without (much) hunger. Downside: there is not much you can eat...chicken breast, can of tuna in water, protein drink, salad, no fat yoghurt. That will be so boring that after a while you would rather drop meals than eating that crap and than you are on a slippery way to overdoing things. To my knowledge, when you hit ketosis for instance the brain prefers ketones over glycose. But i think we are pretty much on "same page" just slightly disagree on when and how much ketones/glycose are used or "needed" (reply to what i made in bold) I do the opposite, i eat very fatty foods such as 25% minced pork and such so i get lots of fat that way instead of pouring olive oil (or other oils) on top of my food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 would you not be better using olive oil , coconut oil , hemp oil etc than eating high fat CP pork that has been fed with you know what ? just an observation not trying to raise your blood pressure ... i agree animal fat ( from good sources ) is a good thing in moderation , but here in Thailand hard to find .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 well, yes and no. The body needs glucose (sugar) for for the brain, heart, liver, general use, etc etc. If you stop eating at all or stop eating carbs there is no glucose. First of all the liver has saved 2000 kcal on glucose which it will release. Muscles have saved it but they don't release it. Than after 2-3 days you switch into ketone body burning. Which SLOWLY replaces glucose burning in the heart brain, etc. After a week a good part is ketone bodies but you further optimize, after 1 month it is even more. But you can replace only 70, maybe 75% of the glucose with ketone bodys. For the remaining 25-30% the liver changes amino acids into sugar. To prevent that you eat your muscles, you can a) add a tiny amount of carbs after 1-4 weeks. you simply eat more protein so the liver can do it from the surplus protein, don't need your muscles But if you have fat on your belly you don't need to eat more fat, because there is no shortage of fat....you simply eat your beer belly. So if you want to loose fat fast you first stop eating any carbs. But you eat fat and protein whatever you like. You do weight training but not too crazy. After a while (which differs from person to person) when you feel OK with the diet you start to reduce the fat. Than you'll loose weight very fast without (much) hunger. Downside: there is not much you can eat...chicken breast, can of tuna in water, protein drink, salad, no fat yoghurt. That will be so boring that after a while you would rather drop meals than eating that crap and than you are on a slippery way to overdoing things. To my knowledge, when you hit ketosis for instance the brain prefers ketones over glycose. But i think we are pretty much on "same page" just slightly disagree on when and how much ketones/glycose are used or "needed" (reply to what i made in bold) I do the opposite, i eat very fatty foods such as 25% minced pork and such so i get lots of fat that way instead of pouring olive oil (or other oils) on top of my food. yes brain prefers ketones over glucose after a while, but it still needs some glucose (can't recall the exact amount but something like 20-30 % of total energy. But no problem the liver just generates this little amount from amino acids. For the bold part: what I meant: if you want to loose lots of weight (like 20 kg) very fast, than the easiest is to go first into ketone body burning, eating no carbs and than you cut down the fat you eat. So you eat mostly protein + the little fat that can't be avoided...so no minced pork (or very little) and no olive oil. Than you burn ketone bodies full speed from the fat on your belly without being very hungry, without being tired. But of course that is just a short term thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 would you not be better using olive oil , coconut oil , hemp oil etc than eating high fat CP pork that has been fed with you know what ? just an observation not trying to raise your blood pressure ... i agree animal fat ( from good sources ) is a good thing in moderation , but here in Thailand hard to find .... On the country side there are other sources of pork than CP. Downtown (Central for example) has some pork that is natural fed. CP is really to avoid and CPF is producing the animal feed that most farmer use. So even if you don't buy CP you get CP fed pork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacoHell Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 duplicate post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxme Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Try ordering from Iherb.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBro Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Check out that new Warrior Supplements Thailand brand - They do some good priced whey protein for 1850thb (for 2kgs) with free delivery (four flavours to choose). www.warriorsupplementsthailand.com www.facebook.com/warriorsupplementsthailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Check out that new Warrior Supplements Thailand brand - They do some good priced whey protein for 1850thb (for 2kgs) with free delivery (four flavours to choose). www.warriorsupplementsthailand.com www.facebook.com/warriorsupplementsthailand 925 Baht/kg for no name WPC is expensive. At fitwhey you buy WPI from Dymatize Elite whey or Ultimate nutrition Prostar for that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condlik Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hello, I stopped using protein supplements a while ago and now I eat 3-4 more eggs and a liter of milk every day. Do you think it will work as well as protein powder ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hello, I stopped using protein supplements a while ago and now I eat 3-4 more eggs and a liter of milk every day. Do you think it will work as well as protein powder ? I think it works better, just with the eggs + milk you eat a lot fat additional which may or may not make you fat. I think some non fat milk + protein powder helps to get more protein into the body without massive amounts of calories. It seems to work better for me if I eat several times per day a little bit protein (1 egg) than eating some massive amount at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condlik Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 OK, I just wondered if there is something miraculous in the powder (that I would not get in the milk and eggs). Not worried about fat and calories, on the contrary, just reached 82kg & happy. Thanks for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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