UK tourist visa refusal advice

[DocP]

Hi There,

My girlfriend has just had her UK tourist visa refused, I am looking for advice as to what we can do on a 2nd application to be successful and how long we have to wait before re-applying. The refusal letter states:

"I have refused your application for a visit visa because I am not satisfied you meet the requirements of paragraph(s) V4.2-V4.10 of Appendix V: Immigration Rules for Visitors because:

You seek entry to the United Kingdom for 3 months to visit your boyfriend (my name). You state within your application that you are unemployed and supported by a third party with no income from any other source. You have also included a letter in which you state you work with your sister in the market and sell clothes giving you a monthly income of 3,000-5,000THB per month (£60-£100 at the current exchange rate of £1=50THB).

You were interviewed regarding your proposed trip by a member of staff from this embassy when you stated that you met your sponsor on a website in September 2014 and in person at Christmas. I note that your sponsor has visited on 3 occasions since December 2014 and you have included documents to show your ongoing contact and 5 photographs confirm you have met. Your sponsor has written a letter in support of your application and I am satisfied there are sufficient funds available.

In assessing your application I must take into account your personal and economic circumstances. You have submitted your personal Bangkok Bank Account with a closing balance of 1218THB on 18 May. You say you are employed with your sister but have show no evidence of any employment or income, no details of any family, property or similar assets in Thailand which might show ties and a reason to return at the end of your proposed visit. The lack of evidence of your own circumstances casts doubt upon your intentions in the United Kingdom. Given the foregoing I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry to the United Kingdom as a visitor, that you intend to leave at the end of the period of visit, or that you do not intend to live for extended periods in the United Kingdom through frequent or successive visits.

Future Applications

Any future UK visa applications you make will be considered on their individual merits, however you are likely to be refused unless:

-your personal circumstances change significantly between now and your next application

-you provide compelling new evidence with your next application"

My sponsorship letter was as follows:

"I write in support of my girlfriend, (her name) application to visit me in the United Kingdom 5/6/2015 for a period of 3 months to get a taste of London and the UK and to further our relationship.

I am a British national aged 46 years old living in London, separated for 12 years and now divorced. (her name) is a 30 year old Thai national.

We first met on 22nd September 2014 through a dating website and have been in constant communication ever since using Skype, Line and Whatsapp. our feelings growing very strong over time.

I have visited (her name) in Thailand on three occasions, 24/12/2014 to 4/1/2015 with time spent in Bangkok and Hua Hin, 31/1/2015 to 14/2/2015 Bangkok, Koh Chang, Koh Mak, Krabi, Phi Phi, Phuket and 8/3/2015 to 24/3/2015 Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket (I was away in Singapore 18/3/2015 to 21/3/2015).

I own a one bedroom apartment which will be our residence whilst (her name) is in the UK, I will be purchasing (her name) return flights and paying her living expenses. I also intend to purchase travel insurance for her to cover any medical emergencies that may arise.

As a sponsor I acknowledge my responsibility to ensure (her name) returns to Thailand and will do so, she will not overstay her visa as this would jeapordise any future visa applications. (her name) also has extremely strong family ties in Bangkok and Udon Thani."

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

DocP

[luxoretired]

well yesterday i replied to another but related problem on this forum and was slated by an "expert" but i can tell you why you failed ,her first entry visit is too long ,split it up and have the first visit no more than 30 days.she has not shown that she has enough in thailand to entice her back ,sick parents ,young children and land and a car are all bonus points.she also has not shown consistancy in travel ie come and go on several visits to other countries .start off slow and not demanding and you have a better chance!you can also present a character reference from a good source ie tambon chief ,known monk etc.also your tickets ,its better to travel both ways together and have the tickets paid for (have flexible date ticket for your safety )

[theoldgit]

The refusal notice is obviously addressed to your girlfriend, as she is the applicant.

The Entry Clearance Officer is satisfied with your status as a sponsor, you've met in Thailand since you met on a dating site nine months ago and are prepared to pay for trip, they are satisfied that it's appropriate for you to do so and that's within your means to do so.

The reason seems to be that they are not satisfied with your girlfriends reason to return to her home country.

You say that as a sponsor you acknowledge your responsibility to ensure your girlfriend returns to Thailand and will do so, and she will not overstay her visa as this would jeopardise any future visa applications. Whilst it's fair to acknowledge that failing to comply with visa conditions could indeed jeopardise any future applications, you have no responsibility for anything other than providing the financial support you have promised to provide. You certainly cannot guarantee that she will return on time and any such promise would not be taken into account by the ECO as it's unenforceable in law, indeed ECO's are advised to ignore any undertakings in their guidelines.

So, as I say, the reason to return seems to be the stumbling block.

As the previous poster suggests a three month holiday for any applicant would immediately ring alarm bells for the ECO, you will agree that it's an unusually long time for a holiday, and they might be wondering what she would be doing for the time you were, presumably, at work.

The ECO will probably take a view that whilst family ties are normally strong amongst Thai people, it's relatively common for family members to travel to the UK, Europe or the US to make a better life, children are often left with grandparents whilst cash is sent to help sick relatives, so family ties are often discounted.

Land and property would be taken into consideration but probably not a car or motorbike.

Her employment status is hardly convincing and regularising this might help her in any further applications, she really needs to be able to satisfy the ECO that, on the balance of probabilities, that she will return to Thailand.

Regarding flight tickets, I would strongly advise against purchasing flight tickets, even fully flexible ones, before any visa is issued, this is the advice given by the UKVI.

[7by7]

well yesterday i replied to another but related problem on this forum and was slated by an "expert" but i can tell you why you failed ,her first entry visit is too long ,split it up and have the first visit no more than 30 days.

Whilst such a long holiday may, as theoldgit puts it, ring alarm bells, if the ECO is satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, all the criteria for the visa applied for are met; it will be issued.

Regardless of whether it is a first or subsequent application and regardless of how long the applicant said they intended to stay in the UK for (as long as it's not more than 6 months, of course!).

There is nothing in the Immigration Rules, ECGs or IDIs to say that first time applicants must apply for a short visit only.

"she has not shown that she has enough in thailand to entice her back ,sick parents ,young children and land and a car are all bonus points."

Land? Good, A car? Maybe.

Sick parents or children? No, not considered by UKVI as reasons to return. Many Thais live and work abroad and send money home to their families.

"she also has not shown consistancy in travel ie come and go on several visits to other countries .start off slow and not demanding and you have a better chance!"

Whilst a history of previous travel and compliance with visa conditions obviously helps; it is not essential. If such a history was a requirement, how would anyone ever get their first visa?

"you can also present a character reference from a good source ie tambon chief ,known monk etc."

As shown to you in the other topic to which you refer, the only undertaking which is included in the Immigration Rules and therefore acceptable is one to provide accommodation and/or financial support.

Any other undertakings, character references etc are not covered by the rules, and in the case of undertakings unenforceable, so will be ignored by the ECO.

"also your tickets ,its better to travel both ways together and have the tickets paid for (have flexible date ticket for your safety )"

Difficult to travel both ways together if the sponsor is in the UK and the applicant is travelling to visit them!

Also, as said above and in the other topic; UKVI specifically advise applicants not to purchase any tickets until the visa has been issued.

So if an applicant or sponsor does purchase tickets before submitting the application and shows that they have done so in the application, that purchase will have zero effect on the ECOs assessment of the application and their decision.

[Tony M]

I do think the Bangkok Embassy have become a lot tougher on visit visa applications of late, especially the applications that would previously have had a right of appeal (family visit visa applications).

I was a little surprised when I saw this included in a visit visa refusal notice recently. The applicant was going to visit her sister ( or was hoping to) :

"I note you share the same surname, however, you have not submitted any documents demonstrating that you are sisters and you have never travelled out of Thailand before."

A complaint to the Embassy elicited the response that this was a “preliminary statement” to the reasons for refusal. A further complaint, pointing out that the ECO’s statement came directly below the words “The Decision”, and that the ECO had concluded with the words “in view of the above” before refusing the application under paragraph 41 of the rules, elicited the response that the statements “were intended to provide context, rather than an inherent link to any part of the immigration rules”. What context could the statement provide, other than to put a negative slant on the application, I wonder ?

[7by7]

DocP, in your OP you quote the refusal notice as saying

You state within your application that you are unemployed and supported by a third party with no income from any other source. You have also included a letter in which you state you work with your sister in the market and sell clothes giving you a monthly income of 3,000-5,000THB per month

It is inconsistencies and contradictions such as this which cause the ECO to have serious doubts about an application.

This will have to be explained in any subsequent application.

You ask "how long we have to wait before re-applying?"

In theory, she could apply again immediately. But unless she deals with all the reasons for this refusal, including adequately explaining the above contradiction, then she will only be refused again.

I hope that the third party she said in her application is supporting her is you. In which case you should say how much you send her, how often and why you do so.

If it's someone else, then that will need to be explained as well; probably more so.

It's obvious why an unemployed Thai girl is being supported financially by her British boyfriend, but not when she is being supported by someone else!

[DocP]

Thanks for all your advise.

7by7, she was apparently advised by the visa company she used to say she did some work with her sister at the market, I did not find this out until after the refusal. Are you saying on the next application that she will have to explain the contradiction in the previous application? To confirm the third party is myself!

All, what is consensus on the length of stay, is it more likely to be accepted if a short period for example a month is requested.

In the absence of property in her name, car etc, what reasons for return can be used? I doubt many people applying have property etc? She can state her family ties, sick mother, dog etc but these don't seem very strong reasons.

She did spend some time in Russia a few years ago and adhered to her visa, I guess this is worth putting in the application?

Thanks,

DocP

Edited June 20, 2015 by DocP

[7by7]

7by7, she was apparently advised by the visa company she used to say she did some work with her sister at the market, I did not find this out until after the refusal.

Sadly, your girlfriend is not the first person to have been advised by a dodgy visa agent to lie in her application and be refused as a result!

I call them 'dodgy' because a reputable agent would never suggest such a thing.

I hope they refunded their fee; although many of the dodgy ones don't, regardless of what they may say in their advertising.

Are you saying on the next application that she will have to explain the contradiction in the previous application?

Yes, she will have to explain the contradiction.

Saying that she lied on the advice of a visa agent wont wash with the ECO, I fear.

She is ultimately responsible for the information she submits, and did, after all, sign a declaration which begins "I declare: • That the information given on this form whether input by myself, input on my behalf by a third party or automatically pre-populated is complete and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief."

She did spend some time in Russia a few years ago and adhered to her visa, I guess this is worth putting in the application?

Did she say this in this application?

Question 34 on the form asks "Have you ever travelled outside your country of residence, excluding the UK, in the last 10 years?"

How did she answer that?

Have a read of UK visit visa basics, some of it needs updating, but the essentials haven't changed.

Edited June 20, 2015 by 7by7

[rawhod]

From personal experience, when you approach the question of her visit to Russia, give full detailed information. Five years ago when my then girlfriend, now wife, applied to accompany me on a visit to the UK, we included the fact that she had visited Australia during the period we emailed regularly before I returned to Thailand the second time

We just said that she had complied with the Australian Visa. The application was refused and one of the reasons was that she had visited Australia with someone else, not me (a correct assumption on the ECO's part, but not with another boyfriend, with other friends), during the period we were friends.

In our second, and successful application, we included an Air Asia boarding card, which she had luckily kept, and photos of her trip with the friends she visited.

Don't assume that the ECO will draw the correct conclusion from the information you provide...give them all the information.

Better a little too much than too little...

Edited June 21, 2015 by rawhod