attrayant Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Why could the American man not arranged for surrogacy in the US? Of three couples in the USA who I know have adopted foreign babies - all from Vietnam - their reasoning was that they wanted to lift a child out of abject poverty that it would presumably be subject to if it were not adopted. This makes some sense to me, as my inlaws tell me that Thais rarely, if ever, adopt because the child would never be a true member of the nuclear family. Think of the proverbial red-headed stepchild or black sheep of the family. If true, that means almost all orphaned children in Thailand will stay that way for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I thought surrogacy was banned by the legislature a few months ago.... Not in effect yet apparently. This couple is sounding optimistic but I wouldn't be if I were them. This is nothing more than baby trafficking Thailand is right The buyers no mater who belong in Jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. You can only adopt a child in Thailand, if you are married the hetero way. I have never heard about the possibility of a gay couple adopting a child in Thailand. Men alone cannot adopt a child here. No one is adopting. I thought the guy in the post was the biological father. then perhaps you should read the post. EDIT: i take that back, he has volunteerd for DN testing, but the article is a confused mess, the initial paragraphs state that the surrogate agreed to put his name on the birth cert, and that the surrogate was not the biological mother, and that they had not met until the day before the baby was born, most odd indeed. Read the OP and the link a couple of times and got the feeling he was the biological father, but yes you are right the article is unclear at times on this, not the best piece of journalism I've encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Some of the bigoted rhetoric here mirrors the worse stuff coming out of the government of Putin's Russia. Hard core homophobia! Happily, Thailand's government isn't nearly as bad as that. It just doesn't legally recognize gay relationships. The couple in this news story seems to be in a difficult place here in two ways. Surrogacy for foreigners is soon on the way out for all here and also their relationship has no status here. I wish them good luck because I think they're going to need it. As I've said, I am no fan of surrogacy for anyone. I think adoption is better but if there is surrogacy allowed it's only fair that qualified gay parents shouldn't be discriminated against. I guess it is okay to buy a18 year old female and annoy the American Embassy to give her a Visa Edited June 25, 2015 by HenryB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lektrk Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! People make bad choices every day, that is why our prisons are full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar God Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm shocked at the bigotry and ignorance I see in the reactions to this story. I don't know what you learn from watching Fox News but almost 100% of homosexuals are born to heterosexual couples and last statistic I saw showed that children raised by gay or lesbian couples are 90-95% likely to be heterosexual. I realize a lot of ex-pats are retired and older (I became an ex-pat at 38) and older people are more likely to be conservative but gawd, how old are you people making these ignorant and judgmental comments? When you sneeze or fart, does dust come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWPattaya Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have read through several posts and I haven't seen anyone comment on the surrogacy arrangements prior to the surrogate getting pregnant. I am curious to know when she found out that the child she was carrying was for a homosexual with a homosexual partner. It seems to read that the father kept quiet about it until the last minute and that is when she objected. If he kept it a secret then that implies he knew there was likely to be a problem. If he had been upfront about it then he may have had to look for another surrogate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Gay couple.... baby... I don't need to read the rest, if this is a debate then the world's gone to shayte... wake me up when I wake up... Nice profile picture.. I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenslegs Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If you rent a room to somebody are they obliged to inform you of their sexual preferences? No. If you are against homosexuality and do not want gay men to use your room you need to make that clear before renting out the space. The woman entered into a financial arrangement. The child is not hers, never was (not her egg, none of her DNA). I think this woman has realised that a gay US couple can afford to pay a lot more rent and that the biological father can not just walk away. Now she has them by the ba!!s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here. Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That is post of the year for me Kudos sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here. Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That is post of the year for me Kudos sir I say both couples are fools to want baby. They need a brain transplant better than a baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Some classic homophobic phrases - did you use any of these? Then you are almost certainly homophobic and have issues that need addressing..... Some of my best friends are..... I’ve got nothing against them but.... Not that there’s anything wrong with that...... It’s not natural, is it? ... so long as they don't try any funny business While not caring one way or another about a person's sexual choice of partner Maybe you are homeophobic too.... You also have brought attention to the silly stuff rather than rise above it and debate the issue at hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here. Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That is post of the year for me Kudos sir I say both couples are fools to want baby. They need a brain transplant better than a baby Why would a young, gay caring couple that are fit to parent be idiots for wanting to raise a child? Spell it out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here. Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That is post of the year for me Kudos sir I say both couples are fools to want baby. They need a brain transplant better than a baby Why would a young, gay caring couple that are fit to parent be idiots for wanting to raise a child? Spell it out for me. Too much work, too costly,and too much noise. this applies to old man and ex hooker as well Young children are good for Bar Que That's all Folks Edited June 25, 2015 by HenryB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for life perhaps you'd care to outline those effects? It wouldnt have the individual role models of mother and father which children relate to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Understand gay couples may want to have children, however, need to consider impact on child growing up in a "different" relationship to that of natural mother & father parenting. It seems a somewhat selfish aspiration of gays to want to rear a child of a surrogate arrangement in an unnatural coupling. Plus, surrogacy laws world-wide should be enacted immediately to prevent these instances of unwitting women being taken advantage of. Yeh, you're right, it's soooo selfish of gays and lesbians to want to be parents on another note, when exactly was it your brain died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for lifeperhaps you'd care to outline those effects? It wouldnt have the individual role models of mother and father which children relate to And this is a problem why? Please try to avoid the fallacious argument for tradition, that just because we've always done something a certain way means it's the only right way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Well, well, well, what happened to tolerant Thailand. In many ways, particularly those relating to sexuality, Thailand IS tolerant. It's the foreign misfits that come to live here that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Too much work, too costly,and too much noise. this applies to old man and ex hooker as well Young children are good for Bar Que That's all Folks Ahhh you rascal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggers Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 You're weird, you agree then make smart a**e comment. Say what you mean!! The point I make is, it's about the children & natural parenting, I.e. Mother /Father; not gays wanting to be parents. Are u a surrogate out of a gay relationship? Probably not! Challenge .... Put your view !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyman Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 "Release the homophobes!" I expected expats living in Thailand to be a little bit more open minded myself. It seems they are torn between "keep those fags away from having kids" or "make them raise one of the babies from a bar girl I got pregnant while cheating on my wife". "I expected expats living in Thailand to be a little bit more open minded myself." Must be pretty new to this forum then, hey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) The point I make is, it's about the children & natural parenting, I.e. Mother /Father; not gays wanting to be parents. Are u a surrogate out of a gay relationship? It's easy to talk past each other when we can make up and define our own personal terminology. Can you provide some authoritative citation that gives a definition of what "natural parenting" is? Edited June 25, 2015 by attrayant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't think I am prejudiced or homophobic, and have a few gay friends whose company I enjoy and have the utmost respect for. They are not my "gay" friends, they are simply my friends. I don't call my straight friends my "straight" friends, there is no discrimination. However, when it comes to children, I somehow struggle to accept the thought of same gender "parents". Since time began, parents means mother and father, maternal and paternal, female and male. I can not in any way accept that this should change. My philosophy is that should you be gay, decide to live a gay life whether partnered or married, then you sacrifice the right to adopt, surrogate or raise children period. So, gay people be delighted that you are more accepted in society nowadays, you can be partnered mostly without harassment, and can marry in some parts of the world. This I can salute and consider positive progress. But please, PLEASE, leave the children out of it. I'm really sorry to shatter your illusion of what a fabulously tolerant guy you are..... But you ARE prejudiced. And I hope your gay "friends" don't read your post because you might find yourself with a few less gay "friends" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 "Release the homophobes!"I expected expats living in Thailand to be a little bit more open minded myself.It seems they are torn between "keep those fags away from having kids" or "make them raise one of the babies from a bar girl I got pregnant while cheating on my wife". Why?Only 10 % of the world's population is homosexual. The rest of the population probably either doesn't care or is absolutely opposed ( Muslims etc ). The success of the homosexual population in western countries is in convincing their societies that everyone supports them. I put myself in the "don't care either way" category. Do what you like, but don't flaunt it in my face. As for the OP, there are already too many people in the world. Adoption is a perfectly rational way to obtain a baby to satisfy whatever urges one has re children. In fact you DO care either way......."you can be gay if you want...but don't flaunt it" A classically homophobic phrase!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggers Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research?? The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research?? The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!! Why wouldn't it be best for the child to be raised in a loving home even if the parents were same sex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I was raised in a single parent family. I never realised I had an unnatural upbringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsycat Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Re-reading the OP. The baby is not even the woman who gave birth to hers baby. She is a mix of the fathers sperm and a donor egg. So she, the woman who gave birth, was an incubator for nine months. She should have no right over that child, she must have signed a contract. The couple did the same thing in India. With no probs. Women who do that, i take my hat off to. But, there must be a real contract and finances. I know women who have been surrogates, with smiles and happiness everywhere. But, also know, it can get nasty. What is she going to do with the baby now? Her (the babies) parents want to take her home. And give her the best life ever. Better than a shack in wherever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsycat Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I was raised in a single parent family. I never realised I had an unnatural upbringing. Cuddles sent!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wow64 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Good... at least Thailand is thinking about the child. You really think that's what this is about? Yes thats what its about... Why would you think otherwise? They are looking out for the child. I do agree with you though that its not in the child's interest to leave with this couple. Sent from my c64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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