Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[AleG]

Your argument that there must be a cover up because the police have not continued investigating after the suspects have been arrested and indicted it's probably one of the most absurd and illogical things said regarding this case, and that's saying a lot.

No police anywhere in the world will continue to look for culprits after they hand those they have uncovered to the judicial system, if they would have done that you'd be jumping up and down claiming that proves there's the men on trial are innocent.

You want your cake and eat it too, and can't figure out what the problem is with that.

Of course they do. They do it all the time.

A gang commit rape or murder and they have good evidence on at least one guy. Theybarrest him. But theybalso continue further investigations to try find the others. Even after first guy in jail they continue, they try many people hings to get him to talk such as a lesser sentence etc.

They do these things all the time if they have leads more than one did it because if the further investigation indicates no other person was involved that further evidence can assist prosecution when defence try to blame someone else.

It is more than common practice.

Edit: to do otherwise gives defense a great opening to show incompetence in the investigation as it indicates police did not have an open mind.

Yes, they do that "if they have leads more than one did it", the police said this two are the only culprits and that's how they presented their case for prosecution, you will find no police force anywhere that under those circumstances would then not just go on looking for more culprits, but as I mentioned alternative culprits.

In any case what you say and what Boomerangutang said are not the same thing, he just assumes as true that the men on trial are scapegoats and them not going after other people is evidence that the men on trial are scapegoats; it's plain old circular reasoning.

[Darkknight666]

An overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence, shouldn't be taken lightly in any police force or court of law. Common sense says someone is being shielded from prosecution. Those of us who watch cases come and go here, with little evidence other than RTP interpretation of the crime know that this case reeks of corruption. Only how high? I don't believe the General knows all the details here... Even he would see this is a disaster if looking at all the facts.

Sean McAnna is hiding for a reason. He's even implicated Mon as being on the beach at the time of death.... Yet he won't give official testimony.. Why? Because he's been compromised much like the beach David and Hannah were found on. Same as the investigation into the crime. Corruption has always been kind of an accosted consequence here... These days even the general wants to stamp that out. Social media isn't leaving much choice, is it?

[Nigeone]

We don't believe NS "evidence" his lawyer gave for him being in Bangkok... Also all of the info is coming from one side with a vested interest in the outcome of the case. Conflict of interest anyone? Normally evidence given to clear a suspect is given to the public in great detail, Because the public want to feel sure criminals are held accountable, and police are held accountable to the standards of the law. Your new, maybe you won't dodge the question.... If NS is innocent why has he given nothing else to prove it? There are what 500K cameras all over Bangkok, and that's all he can give? Also, why did he hide? Why did he initially refuse to give DNA citing his "Human Rights"? Why is there even a Rumor he was on the Island?

Whether JTJ is paid for his posts is not important. What's important is trying to sift through the lies and get to the truth. The truth put forth so far is bleeding from every orifice.

I do understand your sense of frustration at not getting the answers you want, but what we need to remember this is a trial which is happening now and whether we like it or not there is a good chance we are not privy to all the details of what is transpiring in the court room, and the evidence presented.

From someone who has just stepped into this discussion and read through the vast amount of postings there is clearly two camps which have been set up, those for the boys from Myanmar and those against, but the end game is all want justice. The problem now both sides are entrenched in there respective corners and will not change now, partly driven from the fact you would be bombarded with 'i told you so' postings.

I understand no one believes the NS evidence, i have to admit it is not overly convincing, but again how much do we actually know. Is such as cover up of this scale actually possible, but it only takes one photograph or one piece of CCTV evidence and the walls will come tumbling down, and the ramifications pretty bad. I am sure there are conflicts of interest, is this not normal, is it not natural that the Resort owner would protect his son anyway he could, and if that involves paying of the policemen to make this go away then that's what has to be done, very unethical if that is the case.

With regard to NS not giving more evidence, i suspect the answer is 'why should he' he has already presented information, the best option would no doubt be lay low, if you start giving yourself more exposure it will undoubtedly raise more risks. I was not aware he refused to give his DNA, but understand this was performed later at the infamous press conference, but what the DNA was matched to i really am not sure.

The one thing i simply cannot get my head around is, if it is one big cover up, how would it even be possible, surely one person would have come forward with some information, but on the other hand, maybe they have and we have yet to see such information out in the open.

For me, i am looking forward to the defence having their day in court, from what i have read they seem to have some vital information which will contradict the information the police have presented, but we also have to be prepared for the fact it may be not as explosive as people are hoping for. I expect it will be from one of the deceased friends, and will be 'photographic' rather than just verbal evidence which will give a strong indication as to what transpired that night, and maybe substantiate the 'rumours' or maybe i am completely wrong, who knows.

I don't believe JTJ and the others are being paid, they are simply offering counter arguments, which frustrates people into making these statements, more likely they just enjoy the banter.

As a final note, i seen someone post the word 'dillweed' think it has been edited out now, but that was hilarious, Beavis and Butt-head used to use that word all the time... nice one.

Bonez, you make the good point that no one has come forward etc.. Just a thought, David Miller came forward and he died for that. Wonder if some people having observed that have decided life beats death. Seems logical

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

Yes although Sean is a character of doubtful repute he did post on FB, " David you are the most honourable guy I ever met" or words to that effect. I like to believe Sean was speaking from the truth in that instance.

When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy

[Darkknight666]

We don't believe NS "evidence" his lawyer gave for him being in Bangkok... Also all of the info is coming from one side with a vested interest in the outcome of the case. Conflict of interest anyone? Normally evidence given to clear a suspect is given to the public in great detail, Because the public want to feel sure criminals are held accountable, and police are held accountable to the standards of the law. Your new, maybe you won't dodge the question.... If NS is innocent why has he given nothing else to prove it? There are what 500K cameras all over Bangkok, and that's all he can give? Also, why did he hide? Why did he initially refuse to give DNA citing his "Human Rights"? Why is there even a Rumor he was on the Island?

Whether JTJ is paid for his posts is not important. What's important is trying to sift through the lies and get to the truth. The truth put forth so far is bleeding from every orifice.

I do understand your sense of frustration at not getting the answers you want, but what we need to remember this is a trial which is happening now and whether we like it or not there is a good chance we are not privy to all the details of what is transpiring in the court room, and the evidence presented.

From someone who has just stepped into this discussion and read through the vast amount of postings there is clearly two camps which have been set up, those for the boys from Myanmar and those against, but the end game is all want justice. The problem now both sides are entrenched in there respective corners and will not change now, partly driven from the fact you would be bombarded with 'i told you so' postings.

I understand no one believes the NS evidence, i have to admit it is not overly convincing, but again how much do we actually know. Is such as cover up of this scale actually possible, but it only takes one photograph or one piece of CCTV evidence and the walls will come tumbling down, and the ramifications pretty bad. I am sure there are conflicts of interest, is this not normal, is it not natural that the Resort owner would protect his son anyway he could, and if that involves paying of the policemen to make this go away then that's what has to be done, very unethical if that is the case.

With regard to NS not giving more evidence, i suspect the answer is 'why should he' he has already presented information, the best option would no doubt be lay low, if you start giving yourself more exposure it will undoubtedly raise more risks. I was not aware he refused to give his DNA, but understand this was performed later at the infamous press conference, but what the DNA was matched to i really am not sure.

The one thing i simply cannot get my head around is, if it is one big cover up, how would it even be possible, surely one person would have come forward with some information, but on the other hand, maybe they have and we have yet to see such information out in the open.

For me, i am looking forward to the defence having their day in court, from what i have read they seem to have some vital information which will contradict the information the police have presented, but we also have to be prepared for the fact it may be not as explosive as people are hoping for. I expect it will be from one of the deceased friends, and will be 'photographic' rather than just verbal evidence which will give a strong indication as to what transpired that night, and maybe substantiate the 'rumours' or maybe i am completely wrong, who knows.

I don't believe JTJ and the others are being paid, they are simply offering counter arguments, which frustrates people into making these statements, more likely they just enjoy the banter.

As a final note, i seen someone post the word 'dillweed' think it has been edited out now, but that was hilarious, Beavis and Butt-head used to use that word all the time... nice one.

Bonez, you make the good point that no one has come forward etc.. Just a thought, David Miller came forward and he died for that. Wonder if some people having observed that have decided life beats death. Seems logical

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

Yes although Sean is a character of doubtful repute he did post on FB, " David you are the most honourable guy I ever met" or words to that effect. I like to believe Sean was speaking from the truth in that instance.

When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy

Nige, David and Sean did indeed have a FB chat the night before the murders and were at the very least friends.. They planned to watch a Man. U match and then attend a pub crawl together. Sean claims to have had a hangover and over slept the meet up, When he came to he went out.

They had prior engagements and conversations that prove they were aquatinted. Whatever that means. What Sean said on FaceBook should be studied carefully.

[thailandchilli]

How nice of the headman in a media interview, trying his hardest to discredit anything Sean said by revealing to the press an article stating Sean had been convicted for downloading child porn

[Linky]

Your argument that there must be a cover up because the police have not continued investigating after the suspects have been arrested and indicted it's probably one of the most absurd and illogical things said regarding this case, and that's saying a lot.

No police anywhere in the world will continue to look for culprits after they hand those they have uncovered to the judicial system, if they would have done that you'd be jumping up and down claiming that proves there's the men on trial are innocent.

You want your cake and eat it too, and can't figure out what the problem is with that.

Of course they do. They do it all the time.

A gang commit rape or murder and they have good evidence on at least one guy. Theybarrest him. But theybalso continue further investigations to try find the others. Even after first guy in jail they continue, they try many people hings to get him to talk such as a lesser sentence etc.

They do these things all the time if they have leads more than one did it because if the further investigation indicates no other person was involved that further evidence can assist prosecution when defence try to blame someone else.

It is more than common practice.

Edit: to do otherwise gives defense a great opening to show incompetence in the investigation as it indicates police did not have an open mind.

Yes, they do that "if they have leads more than one did it", the police said this two are the only culprits and that's how they presented their case for prosecution, you will find no police force anywhere that under those circumstances would then not just go on looking for more culprits, but as I mentioned alternative culprits.

In any case what you say and what Boomerangutang said are not the same thing, he just assumes as true that the men on trial are scapegoats and them not going after other people is evidence that the men on trial are scapegoats; it's plain old circular reasoning.

Please explain how are the police to know If more than these 2 did it if they dont follow the leads.

You see this is why your argument is nonsense. There was a report of an argument in the bar and police said they would investigate. But they did not. So the report was a lead to follow up, but they did not follow it. So how can hey follow a lead when they ignore the possibility of the lead.

Do you understand that if they followed up on that lead it could just as easIly provided them with more evidence to convict these 2.

But as they didnt even bother no one will ever know what information was available, whether for or against the 2.

That is the epitome of incompetence.

So please stop posting nonsense on things you know nothing about. You are starting to sound like you are a member of RTP and doing just as bad a job as them as the more you say the more ridiculous your explanations become.

[Nigeone]

Darkknight666

When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy

Nige, David and Sean did indeed have a FB chat the night before the murders and were at the very least friends.. They planned to watch a Man. U match and then attend a pub crawl together. Sean claims to have had a hangover and over slept the meet up, When he came to he went out.

They had prior engagements and conversations that prove they were aquatinted. Whatever that means. What Sean said on FaceBook should be studied carefully.

The reason I ask and it interests me is that to me the single injury on Sean's arm is not consistent with a bike accident. Also it's a strange choice of phrase , honourable , would suggest that if he only knew David for a short time and maybe to a degree on Facebook that something had happened to come to that conclusion. Taken in context with the injury I agree that he needs to be asked more questions. Also a police friend indicated that likely the injuries to David would be consistent with defensive type injury. As in fighting someone off and the injury to Sean in my view is to similar not to want more from him.

[Darkknight666]

Darkknight666

When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy

Nige, David and Sean did indeed have a FB chat the night before the murders and were at the very least friends.. They planned to watch a Man. U match and then attend a pub crawl together. Sean claims to have had a hangover and over slept the meet up, When he came to he went out.

They had prior engagements and conversations that prove they were aquatinted. Whatever that means. What Sean said on FaceBook should be studied carefully.

The reason I ask and it interests me is that to me the single injury on Sean's arm is not consistent with a bike accident. Also it's a strange choice of phrase , honorable , would suggest that if he only knew David for a short time and maybe to a degree on Facebook that something had happened to come to that conclusion. Taken in context with the injury I agree that he needs to be asked more questions. Also a police friend indicated that likely the injuries to David would be consistent with defensive type injury. As in fighting someone off and the injury to Sean in my view is to similar not to want more from him.

We agree on many things, I just have seen FB messages between Sean and David that are conclusive to me that they intended to meet up and were friends prior. Sean's wound looks exactly like the one above David's collarbone. It's my opinion that Dave came across this first and had to be eliminated... By the time Sean came around the sun was on the rise and another body would have made things much more difficult.. Sean could have been warned off at the time and then (as is documented) threatened by Mon later.

Dave has defensive wounds.. He fought before being overcome... Then was dispatched by some kind of knife blows tongue back of his head... Then he was left at sea... Hannah, was bludgeoned and staged in a most dishonorable way. To make some kind of statement .. As in, who do you think you are Farang girl.

Can anyone find a news article where Burmese raped and killed (and or) western tourists in Thailand? Not that it's impossible, but I've nene heard of one on my time here.

[Nigeone]

Darkknight666

When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy

Nige, David and Sean did indeed have a FB chat the night before the murders and were at the very least friends.. They planned to watch a Man. U match and then attend a pub crawl together. Sean claims to have had a hangover and over slept the meet up, When he came to he went out.

They had prior engagements and conversations that prove they were aquatinted. Whatever that means. What Sean said on FaceBook should be studied carefully.

The reason I ask and it interests me is that to me the single injury on Sean's arm is not consistent with a bike accident. Also it's a strange choice of phrase , honorable , would suggest that if he only knew David for a short time and maybe to a degree on Facebook that something had happened to come to that conclusion. Taken in context with the injury I agree that he needs to be asked more questions. Also a police friend indicated that likely the injuries to David would be consistent with defensive type injury. As in fighting someone off and the injury to Sean in my view is to similar not to want more from him.

We agree on many things, I just have seen FB messages between Sean and David that are conclusive to me that they intended to meet up and were friends prior. Sean's wound looks exactly like the one above David's collarbone. It's my opinion that Dave came across this first and had to be eliminated... By the time Sean came around the sun was on the rise and another body would have made things much more difficult.. Sean could have been warned off at the time and then (as is documented) threatened by Mon later.

Dave has defensive wounds.. He fought before being overcome... Then was dispatched by some kind of knife blows tongue back of his head... Then he was left at sea... Hannah, was bludgeoned and staged in a most dishonorable way. To make some kind of statement .. As in, who do you think you are Farang girl.

Can anyone find a news article where Burmese raped and killed (and or) western tourists in Thailand? Not that it's impossible, but I've nene heard of one on my time here.

What is the RTP cause of death to David.? I thought I read blow to the head. Obviously the others wounds contribute to the attack but I haven't gone over and over them as I don't really want to be seeing them to often and indeed have still not seen Hannah's injuries and am not going to. I would like to remember her from the picture posted when alive. Was the alleged blow to the head the main cause of death? The tongue back of his head? I know it's been said that drowning played apart. It will be interesting to see what the UK report has to say and particularly to do with Hannah

[Darkknight666]

How nice of the headman in a media interview, trying his hardest to discredit anything Sean said by revealing to the press an article stating Sean had been convicted for downloading child porn

Indeed! Why try to discredit Sean in national media of he is irrelevant? Because he is a suspect you say? Then why was he ever allowed off the island!? Snicker.... This many coincidences= plenty of lies.

I'd even ask the family why they found this pertinent. If their family isn't involved in any way, why attempt to discredit someone you have no clue what they were doing that night?

Again, DEFLECTION, anyone? Or, there's more to be seen and re RTP are permanently OTL.

[IslandLover]

Nigeone said:

"When did he quote that or similar. Not doubting for one minute just asking in relation to his presence. Was this after he was escorted of the Island or while he was there? And hasn't it been said that people don't think he really knew David as such. Maybe aware of him but not really a big buddy"

Nige, David and Sean did indeed have a FB chat the night before the murders and were at the very least friends.. They planned to watch a Man. U match and then attend a pub crawl together. Sean claims to have had a hangover and over slept the meet up, When he came to he went out.

They had prior engagements and conversations that prove they were aquatinted. Whatever that means. What Sean said on FaceBook should be studied carefully.

Sorry mods, very messed up quotes in the above post and I've had to remove those that are not relevant.

David Miller knew Sean McAnna from David's time at Leeds University. I don't know if Sean attended Leeds University himself but they certainly knew each other socially. Right after the murders there was a quote in a British newspaper from David's father, Ian Miller, supporting Sean's belief that David had gone to the assistance of Hannah.

Sean had previously said on facebook "I know you tried to save her". Read into that what you will.

[Nigeone]

How nice of the headman in a media interview, trying his hardest to discredit anything Sean said by revealing to the press an article stating Sean had been convicted for downloading child porn

Indeed! Why try to discredit Sean in national media of he is irrelevant? Because he is a suspect you say? Then why was he ever allowed off the island!? Snicker.... This many coincidences= plenty of lies.

I'd even ask the family why they found this pertinent. If their family isn't involved in any way, why attempt to discredit someone you have no clue what they were doing that night?

Again, DEFLECTION, anyone? Or, there's more to be seen and re RTP are permanently OTL.

There really is so many many questions and factors that just don't add up and all point to a cover up.

I have always tried to be objective and keep generally a open mind but all the little factors when put together all point one way. The silence at the reactment , the leaning and threats to so many people and the lack of local media coverage. Coupled with a Mafia run Island and a absolute silence when all Thais seem to know who's done it. And they don't say the B2 so what would everyone go to so much trouble to hide what allegedly two pretty much dispensable Burmese have done. That and the injuries to David and Sean and the non too convincing episode with the missing son!! Too much has just not been investigated never mind discounted. I can't when looking at everything independently find any evidence or suggestion that they carried this out or even involved but they could have been . Someone to do with the powers that be have done this without a doubt. But that's been said before by many. That's based on observations and not speculation.

[Darkknight666]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

[IslandLover]

What is the RTP cause of death to David.? I thought I read blow to the head. Obviously the others wounds contribute to the attack but I haven't gone over and over them as I don't really want to be seeing them to often and indeed have still not seen Hannah's injuries and am not going to. I would like to remember her from the picture posted when alive. Was the alleged blow to the head the main cause of death? The tongue back of his head? I know it's been said that drowning played apart. It will be interesting to see what the UK report has to say and particularly to do with Hannah

What is the RTP cause of death to David.?

The RTP, and the prosecution, are still insisting that David was killed by the same hoe that was used on Hannah. They have no other explanation for the apparent stab wounds, nada, zilch. The official cause of death has been stated as drowning, I believe.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Why would they investigate this when they interviewed people at the bar including friends who didn't see such a thing? This is why it is rumor as NOBODY they have spoken to who was at the bar saw it. They police also testified that there was NOBODY on any of the video harassing her. The fact the cop said it was only rumor is something you cannot grasp, you want to hold on to the fact he didn't investigate something that had no only no merit but also that no witness they interviewed or video the viewed indicated the rumor had any credibility at all.

For God's sake there is still a moronic rumor they kid in Bangkok at the time was actually on the tisland. I am sure you want them to continue to pursue this rumor too since it is still a rumor despite them clearing the kid and confirming he was not on the island at the time.

You have to be joking ... with all the BS internet rumors they have wasted their time with, they should spend more time chasing down things that have no credible basis and escape any plausibility.

Is " they kid" you refer to young Nomsod, JTJ?

I stand corrected if you prove me wrong but I read somewhere that " they kid" was in BKK on the 13th and again on the 15th. Is there any evidence that " They kid' was in BKK on 14th which was very close to the date and time of the murders. I understand that until more video can be doctored there is no current evidence of him being in BKK on 14th.

My motive in coming to this forum is to try and promote the old fashioned idea of justice. Please remind us what your motive is, I seem to have forgotten. What is your relationship with the Head man's family?

Despite what you might have read somewhere (CSI Facebook perhaps, lol) he was cleared and police confirmed he was in Bangkok and was not on the island. Video, Phone Records, Witness, School Records are just some of the things we know to confirm this not to mention he voluntarily provided his DNA since police had no interest in being he wasn't on the island.

Surely posters here want to see the evidence themselves to confirm this despite the fact they will make idiotic and baseless claims it is forged or altered or lies and move the goal post further in what they will demand to prove somebody is innocent despite there being NOTHING to tie him to the crime or to suspect him beyond BS rumor.

It also amazes me the self importance that this case has brought to people in that they seem to believe their input and conspiracy theories matter one bit instead of accepting the fact their theories, based on what they don;t know, are meaningless in this case and their involvement in this case and trial is less significant than a gnat on a buffalo's behind. We are just meaningless people with internet access with an opinion -- the thought that this case is going to be decided or solved by internet detectives or that they conspiracy theorists will prove some vast cover-up took place is laughable. The only people being convinced are themselves -- I would suggest when the case is wrapped up these folks visit one the moon landing conspiracy forums to keep their skills up until the next big case comes up and they can jump on that bandwagon.

[JohnThailandJohn]

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Police generally don't re-investigate crimes to find new suspects when they already believe they have all the right suspects in custody unless some very compelling evidence comes along. Doing so could in fact be used against them in court. If they are still investigating other people then clearly they are not confident that who they have charges is responsible. Even in the OJ Case, he was found not guilty but the police have not and will not actively search for another killer unless there was very credible evidence to follow-up on. The job in this instance of police it to solve a crime and once they believe they have, regardless of public opinion or if the person gets off, they are generally done and not going to waste resources and time going through motions especially because of nonsense and insignificant online conspiracy theories which in this case the police did waste time and resources initially considering.

[Thesticle]

Thai law is weak, when it reaches the islands it barely wets the sand.

[Nigeone]

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Police generally don't re-investigate crimes to find new suspects when they already believe they have all the right suspects in custody unless some very compelling evidence comes along. Doing so could in fact be used against them in court. If they are still investigating other people then clearly they are not confident that who they have charges is responsible. Even in the OJ Case, he was found not guilty but the police have not and will not actively search for another killer unless there was very credible evidence to follow-up on. The job in this instance of police it to solve a crime and once they believe they have, regardless of public opinion or if the person gets off, they are generally done and not going to waste resources and time going through motions especially because of nonsense and insignificant online conspiracy theories which in this case the police did waste time and resources initially considering.

Interesting comments. Well there's certainly no compelling evidence coming along in this case is there that would be recognized by the RTP. Also although you keep mentioning the OJ case your right they didn't look for anybody else as he did it and everyone knew he did and it was only a technicality that got him off. And as for the resources I would agree as the poor RTP didn't even have enough to store the crime pictures on a 500 baht memory stick so your right resources has to be considered.! And I'm not going to reply and bite to your reply so don't expect one on those grounds alone !

[JohnThailandJohn]

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Police generally don't re-investigate crimes to find new suspects when they already believe they have all the right suspects in custody unless some very compelling evidence comes along. Doing so could in fact be used against them in court. If they are still investigating other people then clearly they are not confident that who they have charges is responsible. Even in the OJ Case, he was found not guilty but the police have not and will not actively search for another killer unless there was very credible evidence to follow-up on. The job in this instance of police it to solve a crime and once they believe they have, regardless of public opinion or if the person gets off, they are generally done and not going to waste resources and time going through motions especially because of nonsense and insignificant online conspiracy theories which in this case the police did waste time and resources initially considering.

Interesting comments. Well there's certainly no compelling evidence coming along in this case is there that would be recognized by the RTP. Also although you keep mentioning the OJ case your right they didn't look for anybody else as he did it and everyone knew he did and it was only a technicality that got him off.

Agree, there is no compelling evidence to suggest somebody else did this but the two defendants and I doubt any will come along unless it is somebody involved with them given both their semen dna was found in a victim. As for OJ, not he did not get off on a technicality and nobody with even the most basic knowledge of the case would say that unless they didn't understand the meaning of technicality.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Here is one instance after 10 seconds on google

Arrest made in connection to homicide investigation - FOX10 News ...

www.fox10tv.com/.../arrest-made-in-connection-to-homicide-investigation

One week after Davis' death, police say they arrested Demarcus Perdue "in connection with this homicide." Mobile Police say they are continuing to investigate ...

Here's a case much closer to home:

What happened when the RTP gave the case file to the prosecutors for the first time? They gave it back and said now now boys go and get some more evidence.

What happened when the RTP gave the case file to the prosecutors for the second time? They returned it again saying we need even more!

What happened when the RTP submitted the file again! Nope still not good enough, go get some evidence.

Only on the 4th occasion did the prosecutors accept the case to take the B2 to court.

So one would presume to get all this extra evidence needed then it was not just to the local Tesco's with the shopping trolley but they actually needed to carry on investigating.

Says something when the prosecutor has the DNA evidence submitted by the RTP and says thats not enough.

To add to that, on the preliminary hearing at court back in Dec the defense put in for bail, the prosecutors did not oppose the application! It was the judge who decided they were a flight risk.

Anyway looks like all the padded evidence they put in the reports was crap judging by the case so far.

Although it is true according to Media Reports that the Prosecution asked the RTP to take back this "Case File" at least a couple of times I know of, it then quickly turns to "Your Opinion" as to why they did. You claim he was looking for more evidence where I tend to differ than you on that.

The reasons being that at this point of the investigation it was already known by the Media what they had for evidence (i.e DNA Sperm and Cigarette Sample Match, Davids Mobile Phone, Witnesses, Confession etc.). So quite frankly, they didn't need anymore evidence then that for a conviction at that time.

What I believed happened their is that perhaps the Prosecution wanted to make sure they had all their ducks in order. That all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed on what had turned into an international case. I am sure they did not want some evidence thrown out of court based only on some "technicality". For example not having the "Chain of Custody" over DNA Samples, even if this required re-testing, and why I think it is not very plausible that they don't.

The "Case File" as you called it was 850 pages long. It is not unreasonable to think that not everything was perfect and no errors where found in it the first draft. Most Engineering Schematic Diagrams are Revised several times. The Case File was for the Prosecution and not the Court. The Prosecution has the right to show what he wants. He does not have to show everything he has. So he may have wanted the RTP to zoom in on one subject, and forget about another. We don't know, and may never know this, as the Prosecution is under obligation not to tell us when there is an ongoing trail, like right now.

Remember one very important factor here. Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

[smedly]

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Why would they investigate this when they interviewed people at the bar including friends who didn't see such a thing? This is why it is rumor as NOBODY they have spoken to who was at the bar saw it. They police also testified that there was NOBODY on any of the video harassing her. The fact the cop said it was only rumor is something you cannot grasp, you want to hold on to the fact he didn't investigate something that had no only no merit but also that no witness they interviewed or video the viewed indicated the rumor had any credibility at all.

For God's sake there is still a moronic rumor they kid in Bangkok at the time was actually on the tisland. I am sure you want them to continue to pursue this rumor too since it is still a rumor despite them clearing the kid and confirming he was not on the island at the time.

You have to be joking ... with all the BS internet rumors they have wasted their time with, they should spend more time chasing down things that have no credible basis and escape any plausibility.

Is " they kid" you refer to young Nomsod, JTJ?

I stand corrected if you prove me wrong but I read somewhere that " they kid" was in BKK on the 13th and again on the 15th. Is there any evidence that " They kid' was in BKK on 14th which was very close to the date and time of the murders. I understand that until more video can be doctored there is no current evidence of him being in BKK on 14th.

My motive in coming to this forum is to try and promote the old fashioned idea of justice. Please remind us what your motive is, I seem to have forgotten. What is your relationship with the Head man's family?

Despite what you might have read somewhere (CSI Facebook perhaps, lol) he was cleared and police confirmed he was in Bangkok and was not on the island. Video, Phone Records, Witness, School Records are just some of the things we know to confirm this not to mention he voluntarily provided his DNA since police had no interest in being he wasn't on the island.

Surely posters here want to see the evidence themselves to confirm this despite the fact they will make idiotic and baseless claims it is forged or altered or lies and move the goal post further in what they will demand to prove somebody is innocent despite there being NOTHING to tie him to the crime or to suspect him beyond BS rumor.

It also amazes me the self importance that this case has brought to people in that they seem to believe their input and conspiracy theories matter one bit instead of accepting the fact their theories, based on what they don;t know, are meaningless in this case and their involvement in this case and trial is less significant than a gnat on a buffalo's behind. We are just meaningless people with internet access with an opinion -- the thought that this case is going to be decided or solved by internet detectives or that they conspiracy theorists will prove some vast cover-up took place is laughable. The only people being convinced are themselves -- I would suggest when the case is wrapped up these folks visit one the moon landing conspiracy forums to keep their skills up until the next big case comes up and they can jump on that bandwagon.

Thailand police confirmation is what is important, we know we can trust 100% everything they say, they are held in the highest esteem in Thailand and throughout the world - the stupid believes and the smart does not, carry on with your make believe delusions, there are 3 believers on this forum and then you have smart people that see through this charade, carry on making a fool of yourself it measures perfectly with this developing epic embarrassment of an investigation, my heart goes out to the families and loved ones that have to experience this horrific debacle of so called justice Thai style, do yourself a and all of us a favour and ................................................you disgusting person along with Ag and GB, karma will catch you up believe me

[GOLDBUGGY]

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Why would they investigate this when they interviewed people at the bar including friends who didn't see such a thing? This is why it is rumor as NOBODY they have spoken to who was at the bar saw it. They police also testified that there was NOBODY on any of the video harassing her. The fact the cop said it was only rumor is something you cannot grasp, you want to hold on to the fact he didn't investigate something that had no only no merit but also that no witness they interviewed or video the viewed indicated the rumor had any credibility at all.

For God's sake there is still a moronic rumor they kid in Bangkok at the time was actually on the tisland. I am sure you want them to continue to pursue this rumor too since it is still a rumor despite them clearing the kid and confirming he was not on the island at the time.

You have to be joking ... with all the BS internet rumors they have wasted their time with, they should spend more time chasing down things that have no credible basis and escape any plausibility.

So you have been hireD to defend the kid ? " ADMIT IT "

Nonsense! Utter Nonsense!

[loonodingle]

Wonder what the posters on here think about what should happen next. It's clear that if the trial continues as is and if the B2 are found guilty despite what's been forthcoming or not in the trial that there will be a appeal. Even the Judge indicated as such last week on listening to the prosecution witnesses. Should be thrown out now, should it proceed till the end of the prosecution and then be called a mistrial or just left to take its course and be open to appeal and ridicule. I'm sure there will be conversations taking place at a high level in the establishment in Thailand as to damage imitation but not sure what there angle will be . Which ever side of the fence you sit on you would have to agree that nothing shown in court by the prosecution up to now has indicated any possible guilt by the B2 but I am not saying for one minute that they might not be guilty or involved in some way. I have my own opinion on the matter and happy to offer it but that's all it is from looking at it objectively from a distance. However as stated with all the failed procedures by the investigating police it's clear this is only going way. I suppose it is possible that if there found not guilty the police would not appeal but it absolutely sure that if found guilty the defense will. This perfect case is clear not to be so and with everything else going on against Thailand at the moment they really could do without this additional embarrassment . Just putting this out there to see what more knowledgable people then me think ?

Clearly, it's too early to say, but the judge gave an indication that the case won't be resolved at this court. Whether a change of mind occurs, will depend on next month's evidence, IMO.

I'm not putting my house on the line, but what western opinion might be in relation to ineptitude, misdirection et al, the Thais will carry on in their own way, however ridiculous it might appear to non-Thais. And that's not to bash them, it's how it's been going on for decades.

I do think the defence have information and the clout to counter the prosecution's case - more so since Andy Hall is seeking legal counsel from the UK. he wouldn't be doing that if the defence case was weak or was unable to refute the prosecution's.

You wait and see.. The RTP will walk from court heads hung in shame

[GOLDBUGGY]

Darkknight666

There you go again! Trying to spread rumors and gossip that have no truth to them at all and have several times here already proved false.

NS did not refuse to give his DNA because he was never ask for it. Understand That! He was never asked for it! He was cleared on his Alibi alone. He gave his DNA on a Volunteer basis only. So why is it that every week you have to be told this? Are you really that forgetful? Or are you just trying to be a Snot Nosed Little Kid?

What makes you think you are so important that the Police and Prosecution in this country, or any other for that matter, owe you any explanation? Least of all in an ongoing murder investigation. They owe you NOTHING Sonny Boy! Nothing! Zippity Do-da! Zilch! They do not have to produce evidence for you or explain to you why a suspect has been cleared. For Brain Washed People it would only be a waste of time anyway.

Haven't you notice that the Police have stopped making Press Conferences since the end of October? That the only ones speaking about it now seem to be the Defense or the Media expressing their opinions? This is standard protocol in many countries in that Police and Prosecution don't talk about it to the public. They talk about it in court. .

If you want to stamp out crime and corruption in this world then maybe start in Burma (Myanmar) as they have some of the highest crime rates in the World, and by far near the highest Corruption Rate in the World to. Myanmar is tied with Zimbabwe for Corruption, for God's Sake. So if you want to help Burmese People, go their.

My question Mr Gb relates to your statement " a suspect has been cleared" Are you referring to Nomsod?

If that is the case I ask you to advise who cleared him and what were their qualifications and expertise for making that judgment call? If it was Scotland Yard or the FBI I would be impressed.Let us know at the earliest please

Well this is a very irrational question to begin with. The F.B.I work for the United States of America, and Scotland Yard works for the United Kingdom. They do not stick their nose into another countries investigation as they have enough of their own work to do. That is the CIA's Job! They will however and occasionally help out if requested by that government.

Since you impose a very improbable occurrence then what you are virtually saying is you don't believe anything that is proved here no matter how logical or how evident that may be.

Or also known as Brain Washing. .

[loonodingle]

Your argument that there must be a cover up because the police have not continued investigating after the suspects have been arrested and indicted it's probably one of the most absurd and illogical things said regarding this case, and that's saying a lot.

No police anywhere in the world will continue to look for culprits after they hand those they have uncovered to the judicial system, if they would have done that you'd be jumping up and down claiming that proves there's the men on trial are innocent.

You want your cake and eat it too, and can't figure out what the problem is with that.

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Show one instance, any at all, where police, after handing over who they think are the only culprits of a crime, continue to investigate looking for, not just other accomplices, but alternative culprits while a trial is underway and no verdict has been reached.

I don't expect you to provide any example, or recognize, in view of that, that your argument is absurd.

You should go down the Pub and chill until the trial commences as there will be things that are disclosed that knock your thinking into the gutter.

Andy and the rest of the defence has to keep a lid on it until the trial commences.

At that point all will be revealed. Some of you will be wiping egg of your faces other will be saying see .... see I said that was the case.... Sit tight Ali G and enjoy the ride.

There has been some hints in the papers at what may or may not be true. Lets say there was traces of a shot for example and the DNA doesn't match. The case collapses doesn't it. What can you appeal about that?

[GOLDBUGGY]

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Why would they investigate this when they interviewed people at the bar including friends who didn't see such a thing? This is why it is rumor as NOBODY they have spoken to who was at the bar saw it. They police also testified that there was NOBODY on any of the video harassing her. The fact the cop said it was only rumor is something you cannot grasp, you want to hold on to the fact he didn't investigate something that had no only no merit but also that no witness they interviewed or video the viewed indicated the rumor had any credibility at all.

For God's sake there is still a moronic rumor they kid in Bangkok at the time was actually on the tisland. I am sure you want them to continue to pursue this rumor too since it is still a rumor despite them clearing the kid and confirming he was not on the island at the time.

You have to be joking ... with all the BS internet rumors they have wasted their time with, they should spend more time chasing down things that have no credible basis and escape any plausibility.

Is " they kid" you refer to young Nomsod, JTJ?

I stand corrected if you prove me wrong but I read somewhere that " they kid" was in BKK on the 13th and again on the 15th. Is there any evidence that " They kid' was in BKK on 14th which was very close to the date and time of the murders. I understand that until more video can be doctored there is no current evidence of him being in BKK on 14th.

My motive in coming to this forum is to try and promote the old fashioned idea of justice. Please remind us what your motive is, I seem to have forgotten. What is your relationship with the Head man's family?

Actually that's a very very good point you mention. Was he on the moon on the 14th. He must have been somewhere and there must have been some record or such on where he was

It is reported by Media he was in BKK on all three days. I am sure his phone records and witnesses can verify this easily, which they do not have to prove to you.

Police in any country do not drag a Man's Name through the mud when he is innocent. Even when he is guilty for that matter. The only ones who do that are the Grand Conspiracy People on Social Media.

[loonodingle]

Here is one instance after 10 seconds on google

Arrest made in connection to homicide investigation - FOX10 News ...

www.fox10tv.com/.../arrest-made-in-connection-to-homicide-investigation

One week after Davis' death, police say they arrested Demarcus Perdue "in connection with this homicide." Mobile Police say they are continuing to investigate ...

Here's a case much closer to home:

What happened when the RTP gave the case file to the prosecutors for the first time? They gave it back and said now now boys go and get some more evidence.

What happened when the RTP gave the case file to the prosecutors for the second time? They returned it again saying we need even more!

What happened when the RTP submitted the file again! Nope still not good enough, go get some evidence.

Only on the 4th occasion did the prosecutors accept the case to take the B2 to court.

So one would presume to get all this extra evidence needed then it was not just to the local Tesco's with the shopping trolley but they actually needed to carry on investigating.

Says something when the prosecutor has the DNA evidence submitted by the RTP and says thats not enough.

To add to that, on the preliminary hearing at court back in Dec the defense put in for bail, the prosecutors did not oppose the application! It was the judge who decided they were a flight risk.

Anyway looks like all the padded evidence they put in the reports was crap judging by the case so far.

Although it is true according to Media Reports that the Prosecution asked the RTP to take back this "Case File" at least a couple of times I know of, it then quickly turns to "Your Opinion" as to why they did. You claim he was looking for more evidence where I tend to differ than you on that.

The reasons being that at this point of the investigation it was already known by the Media what they had for evidence (i.e DNA Sperm and Cigarette Sample Match, Davids Mobile Phone, Witnesses, Confession etc.). So quite frankly, they didn't need anymore evidence then that for a conviction at that time.

What I believed happened their is that perhaps the Prosecution wanted to make sure they had all their ducks in order. That all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed on what had turned into an international case. I am sure they did not want some evidence thrown out of court based only on some "technicality". For example not having the "Chain of Custody" over DNA Samples, even if this required re-testing, and why I think it is not very plausible that they don't.

The "Case File" as you called it was 850 pages long. It is not unreasonable to think that not everything was perfect and no errors where found in it the first draft. Most Engineering Schematic Diagrams are Revised several times. The Case File was for the Prosecution and not the Court. The Prosecution has the right to show what he wants. He does not have to show everything he has. So he may have wanted the RTP to zoom in on one subject, and forget about another. We don't know, and may never know this, as the Prosecution is under obligation not to tell us when there is an ongoing trail, like right now.

Remember one very important factor here. Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

PMSL..... ....."That all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed on what had turned into an international case"

LOL.......... They couldn't even check the cameras.

They couldn't even print the crime scene pictures for the International case you speak about.

And On and On and On and On..

Honestly you do make me laugh M8....

Ayeeeee lets see how many times you comment on this after the trial ends.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Uh, LOL.

Listen GB, I've lived here during and followed this case since it happened. I mention NS as often as Shark Tooth, Hoe Man and Mon yet you only complain when I mention NS, why? Yes the police do have an obligation to explain to the people that pay them what evidence they have to convict someone. It has to do with transparency, try google.

And Protocols? They've been proven near non existent in this case and many others. I don't but the evidence police have verbally given, that's not enough for many, many people, my wife and her family, and people all over the world included. Why do you have a problem with that? If Zaw and Win turn up in evidence that can't be disputed then fine, but they haven't... Neither have any other suspects at this point. I'm

Here giving an opinion... That's what this board is for.

Sounds like you may need a nap, you're cranky.

Listen Darkknight666.

You opinion is was not criticized by my post. You have stressed you other opinions on other people and you have noticed I never jump in.

But when you purposely give false and misleading information here, this s not an opinion at all. It is false and misleading information.

You said NS refused to give his DNA to the Police. I told you that he did not refuse as he was never requested to do so.You know this. This is not the only time you have said this and been corrected.

Personally I don't mind anyone's opinion here and whether I agree to it or not. But what I don't like is some Spin Doctor to come here with a pack of lies and totally "Contaminate" "Corrupt" or :"Destroy" this site with purposely misleading garbage. Go to the other ones where it is excepted.

And again No! The Police do not have to explain to you anything, This is what courts are for.

If I seem grumpy it is because someone (we both know) called me names again and a Butthead! I would suggest to that person if he can not be civil to go wash his mouth out with soap and then come back and try again. .

I'm sure he'll do that just as soon as you grow up a little and stop whining on about the same tired old crud.

You have dished out more than your fair share of insults child, so try practicing some respect for other posters yourself. If you could also try coming up with an original thought or two, that would be very nice and most unexpected.

I think we've gone about as far as we can with this thread until the case resumes in court so if both sides could simply try and maintain awareness of their respective positions and key issues, then we probably wouldn't have to have these daily food fights that inevitably end up with Globby spitting out his dummy, JTJ (mis)-quoting the families (again!), Aleg pretending to be pseudo intellectual and everyone else wishing they were as wise (and restrained) as me (no ban for three whole days now!! ).

I am more than willing to give it a rest until something new, relevant and interesting comes up.

Failing that chaps, just ignore the thicket of RTP apologists and they'll be broadcasting blind with no one to parry their dodgy reasoning.

Good Bye!

[loonodingle]

Is " they kid" you refer to young Nomsod, JTJ?

I stand corrected if you prove me wrong but I read somewhere that " they kid" was in BKK on the 13th and again on the 15th. Is there any evidence that " They kid' was in BKK on 14th which was very close to the date and time of the murders. I understand that until more video can be doctored there is no current evidence of him being in BKK on 14th.

My motive in coming to this forum is to try and promote the old fashioned idea of justice. Please remind us what your motive is, I seem to have forgotten. What is your relationship with the Head man's family?

Actually that's a very very good point you mention. Was he on the moon on the 14th. He must have been somewhere and there must have been some record or such on where he was

It is reported by Media he was in BKK on all three days. I am sure his phone records and witnesses can verify this easily, which they do not have to prove to you.

Police in any country do not drag a Man's Name through the mud when he is innocent. Even when he is guilty for that matter. The only ones who do that are the Grand Conspiracy People on Social Media.

Wouldn't it be funny if one of the Girls had a picture of him on their mobile phone taken while they partied Hey.. With Hannah

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thailand police confirmation is what is important, we know we can trust 100% everything they say, they are held in the highest esteem in Thailand and throughout the world - the stupid believes and the smart does not, carry on with your make believe delusions, there are 3 believers on this forum and then you have smart people that see through this charade, carry on making a fool of yourself it measures perfectly with this developing epic embarrassment of an investigation, my heart goes out to the families and loved ones that have to experience this horrific debacle of so called justice Thai style, do yourself a and all of us a favour and ................................................you disgusting person along with Ag and GB, karma will catch you up believe me

Distrusting police is natural, in any country and of course more natural in a less developed nation. However, this doesn't justify implausible and highly speculative conspiracy theories that involve pointing the fingers at people you have zero evidence against except for your ignorance of what you don't know and that you have no business knowing. Nor does distrust in the police indicate there is going to be a grand conspire to let murdering rapist animals go free and not be interested in seeing those responsible punished.

As for you faux concern with the families, they have made clear their thoughts on your kind doing this speculating and how hurtful it has been to them and those who were close to the victims. Show a little bit of dignity here and at least be like other posters and admit you don't care about the families wishes and that they are ignorant and uniformed for believing the police have the right people in custody and having faith the court. Just utter nonsense to pretend you care about the family and that plays into any of your motives here for the nonsense theories being put fourth and your selectively believing some police reports and not other ... obsessing on incomplete information while claiming cover ups and edited videos in others when you don;t want to believe reality. Just plain nonsense. Anyway continue focusing on things you don;t know and coming up with pretend facts and speculating on silly conspiracy theories because taking a step back and looking at things in their entirety would make you realize just how silly these theories and conclusion being put forth here are.