Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[PepperMe]

My wife hit the nail on the head just now.

She is also reading this thread and is embarrassed for the stupid falang who believe the police.

Every Thai person knows they didn';t do it and the police are corrupt and everyone in Thailand knows who did it.

But stupid falang the only people who think the police are not being corrupt.

Obviously she is talking about the falang who are defending the prosecution of these two poor guys.

[Truth4All]

Didnt it take 5 or 6 attempts to get this to go to court and now this nonsense. Did they just think the world press would be to busy to turn up?

No matter what further evidence they produce from the shopping trolley now it can never be trusted. I wonder if they even know what they have in the trolley, who packed it, seems to me its like a lucky dip for them! For Gods sake stop the trial now.

Not letting that bias back in yet are you?

There's still a lot of evidence to go through, including the friends of the defendants testimony about the phone, finding out if there are still samples of DNA to be tested etc

Plus it's very important to hear from the defense in open court about their UK evidence!

Oh-- Just STOP it Thailand!!! I'm almost convinced that this Country does not have a future!

Only a few steps away from being more like North Korea. Foreigners can not affect what happens here.

Time to not visit LOS, anymore. Lived here for 10 years.

[sweatalot]

And for months now we have been reading here as to how these same people who have apparently orchestrated this (so far) Keystone Kops show can make airplane passenger manifests disappear in Surathani and Don Muang and pay off scores or more of people without one person saying boo.

Some authorities and/or Mon may have said 'boo' - and the Nok Air manager at Chumpon knew just what to do - to make data disappear. We haven't seen any Nok Air passenger manifest from the morning flight to Bkk on Sept 15th, have you? If we see that, and the CCTV of passenger entering and leaving that craft, I'll kiss a toad.

I beg to differ. Face rules the life of Asians.

Yes, face is very important, but so is amassing money, and so is keeping VIP's and their offspring shielded from any legal troubles.

The Western media needs to keep reporting on this case and not be run off. I have read nothing in the Thai media or seen any report on Thai TV. I am getting a real bad feeling about this case I hope I am wrong.

Couldn't have anything to do with Thailand being run by a self-appointed group of military men, could it? The top guy has spoken out several times on this case: "It's been a perfect investigation" "if the DNA matches, then those are the murderers" "Don't call them Burmese" "if a pretty woman walks around in a bikini, she should not be surprised if....." "The British are welcome here, but as observers-only." Could the PM have spoken with Thai news outlet heads? He's known to have a father-knows-best way of hushing people up.

Yes there were some not so appropriate comments by the MP. I agree. But do you think the Thai governments before him would have been different?

I don't want to go off topic and let this go political and I respect your opinion. But I think this is not a particular fault of the PM - it is just common Thai behavior.

[alfalfa19]

My wife hit the nail on the head just now.

She is also reading this thread and is embarrassed for the stupid falang who believe the police.

Every Thai person knows they didn';t do it and the police are corrupt and everyone in Thailand knows who did it.

But stupid falang the only people who think the police are not being corrupt.

Obviously she is talking about the falang who are defending the prosecution of these two poor guys.

some of the stupid falang really are just stupid. or lonely, or mentally ill. but others have more sinister motives, such as business interests on the island, or they are acting as minions for those people with business interests. i think it's really pointless to argue with them, it's simply a waste of time. and very frustrating to boot.

[nithisa78]

the defendants are hardly well equipped to have done anything of this nature.

[Dogmatix]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

How is the roti seller qualified to be a court translator? Cant read Thai and Burmese is not his mother tongue, as he is Bengali, so he is probably illiterate in both languages he is supposed to interpret. He couldn't read the confesssion the police drafted in Thai for the 2B but ordered them to sign anyway.

[GOLDBUGGY]

For the Umpteenth Time, these people you constantly suggest were investigated from the first, but where cleared because they had an Iron Clad Alibi and had their DNA Tested, which did not match. How much more would your Police need to clear a suspect? .

"your police"? Not sure whether they're 'my police.' but to answer your Q; I would need a better alibi, than a CCTV shot of NS leaving the apartment 4.5 hours after the crime, when it would only take around 3.5 hours to get from the island to Bkk (if in a hurry) if taking the morning NOK AIR flight from Chompun. There's no chance we'll ever hear from Nok Air who was on that flight, Sept.15.

So on one hand you have earlier suspects, who through an Iron Clad Alibi, where one proved he could not have even been on the Island during the times of these murders, and DNA Samples taken from both them, that did not match Hannah's DNA Sample and thus cleared of any suspicion.

Sounds like that's your favorite adjective today, "Iron Clad" as you've used it several times to describe NS's flimsy alibi. BTW it's one word; 'ironclad' unless you're describing how Maggie Thatcher gets dressed each morning.

With Evidence like this, any Police Force in the World would arrest the 2 accused and charge them for this crime.

uhhhhh, ok, I guess so, if you say so.

He was also found on CCTV the day before the murders, September 14, and who knows how many more times during those days or nights. He also has documentation to prove he was writing an exam on the morning of the murders. His DNA also came back Negative!

That certainly sounds better to me then the 2 accused story you are defending, who admit to being on the beach near the crime scene when the murders took place, but did not see anyone or anything on the beach, except David Millers Cell Phone they picked up, got drunk, then staggered home, but don't know what time it was and nobody else can confirm this, and their DNA Matched the DNA found inside Hannah.

[Dogmatix]

Of course the police can't allow an independent analysis of the DNA evidence because it might lead to the killers. They aren't stupid. They learned that from the same textbooks as Scotland Yard.

[Truth4All]

quote: It is absolutely unbelievable, even by the Bib's lowly standards. Everything rests on the DNA evidence which seems to be the only evidence they have (no witnesses to the crime, very circumstantial evidence at best of David's phone found "near" the B2's residence). And now, they don't have this DNA evidence anymore??!!

And yet...... some posters still insist that the police have a rock solid case. I mean, how blind / blinkered / naive / gullible can one be? Even a poor Isaan rice farmer would be able to see it for the farce it is.

I suggest it is more a face savings exercise. They would prefer to be regarded as incompetent than being exposed as providing conflicting/contestable evidence. Which had seemed more and more likely. I would like to hope that at some point the judges would say 'enough is enough' and abandon the trial.

BINGO!!! Incompetent is easier to face than Bold Face Lies. Lose a little face, but if it's kinda like a mistrial,

then it's OVER--- a happy ending for the two boys(after all that time in jail for nothing!), nothing happens to any of the Authorities, the PM will abide in what the Court decides, no more proof of any wrongdoing will come to the surface. The English parents get no resolve or closure-- I'm pissed about that!

LOS is going down-- quickly!

[Jimlove]

My wife hit the nail on the head just now.

She is also reading this thread and is embarrassed for the stupid falang who believe the police.

Every Thai person knows they didn';t do it and the police are corrupt and everyone in Thailand knows who did it.

But stupid falang the only people who think the police are not being corrupt.

Obviously she is talking about the falang who are defending the prosecution of these two poor guys.

My wife is cursing every time she read about the useless criminal RTP and their brainless supporters on TV ...

She say this trial is like "Game of Thrones" : You never know whats gonna happen ...

All thais know these B2 didnt do it and fear that Thailand will be shamed in front of the World (already happened) - Thai News and Media have gotten gag-order from the Supreme Leader but BBC, Sky and CNN is not gonna shut up cause some Death Island Mafia threaten them ...

Shame on Thailand and especially on RTP - The Worst Policeforce in the World - #2 was Gestapo SS - #3 Securitate

Thailand is doomed (I hope dearly)

[petedk]

If the local hoodlums want to put a damper on the media reporting, instead of threatening some poor Thai girl translator, why don;t they just arrange for the SKY News reporter to have an unfortunate traffic accident on the way back to his hotel. We all know how dangerous are those roads on Koh Samui.

I just hope your words don't come true.

[GOLDBUGGY]

so much is being said about this trial if a separate dna test is allowed all being well it might prove these boys innocent but this is Thailand and apparently all the evidence points to these two boys being guilty, a fit up from start to finish .

It might also prove them Guilty beyond any reasonable doubt to. So why risk that?

Personally, and if I was the Defense, what I would do is try and convince a Judge that the DNA Collected was flawed. Has "discrepancies" and such, in the hopes this Judge would throw this out as Evidence. Which at this point is probably the most damaging evidence the Prosecution has.

[northernphil]

quote: It is absolutely unbelievable, even by the Bib's lowly standards. Everything rests on the DNA evidence which seems to be the only evidence they have (no witnesses to the crime, very circumstantial evidence at best of David's phone found "near" the B2's residence). And now, they don't have this DNA evidence anymore??!!

And yet...... some posters still insist that the police have a rock solid case. I mean, how blind / blinkered / naive / gullible can one be? Even a poor Isaan rice farmer would be able to see it for the farce it is.

I suggest it is more a face savings exercise. They would prefer to be regarded as incompetent than being exposed as providing conflicting/contestable evidence. Which had seemed more and more likely. I would like to hope that at some point the judges would say 'enough is enough' and abandon the trial.

BINGO!!! Incompetent is easier to face than Bold Face Lies. Lose a little face, but if it's kinda like a mistrial,

then it's OVER--- a happy ending for the two boys(after all that time in jail for nothing!), nothing happens to any of the Authorities, the PM will abide in what the Court decides, no more proof of any wrongdoing will come to the surface. The English parents get no resolve or closure-- I'm pissed about that!

LOS is going down-- quickly!

Not sure LoS is going down the tubes, but whatever the outcome.............I can't think of anywhere worse to live than KT.

[noitom]

What else could be expected than the Thais losing key evidence. Release them.

[KamalaRider]

Sounds like further Bull-shit from the Defense, which is what they want.

Andy Hall is not bias! He has stated his personal opinion on several links but without Evidence. He tries to sound neutral but makes mistakes. He makes a good living here without working! Unless someone can show me he is given money from his mother, and it comes from other sources.

A Gravy Train is just that! The smart ones know how to find it and pump it. The many dumb ones support it!

A Fact of Life! .

Andy Hall "makes a good living here without working!" This is scurrilous garbage -- like everything you write. I will take this back if you immediately show the "evidence", oh how you love that word, Buggy, of the source and figures of Mr. Hall's income. If you can't, please, please, please <deleted>.

Bloody good this trial isn't about Andy Hall then.

[GOLDBUGGY]

What happened to the 1st Burmese to confess? I think his name was Maung Maung? So, I wonder why he confessed if he is innocent, and I wonder why if he was guilty, like he said, why the hell is he not on trial now?

It will be interesting to hear more details of these "mafia" threats. If officialdom is correct about this case, the Burmese mafia in Thailand have gotten way out of hand.

HIs name is Muang Muang or MM for short. It appears as tho he may have gone 'state's witness.' We don't yet know, but there's an interesting photo of him standing alongside the interrogators, all with pleasant looks on their faces, and the Burnese guy doesn't looked shackled or hindered or tense in any way. He looks like part of a team, in that photo.

I don't think he confessed at any stage. He's a bit older, so he was probably apprised of his right to have a lawyer present, and some ideas of not self-incriminating himself. In contrast, the 2 younger Burmese were like deer caught in headlights.

He left the 2 accused (his friends) at 1 am to be with his girlfriend. So he has an Alibi and also his DNA Sample Tested Negative. He didn't need a Lawyer. Neither would the 2 accused if they had an Alibi and their DNA Samples were tested Negative to.

[boomerangutang]

My wife hit the nail on the head just now.

She is also reading this thread and is embarrassed for the stupid falang who believe the police.

Every Thai person knows they didn';t do it and the police are corrupt and everyone in Thailand knows who did it.

But stupid falang the only people who think the police are not being corrupt.

Obviously she is talking about the falang who are defending the prosecution of these two poor guys.

If so many Thais know the B2 are scapegoats, and that the real criminals are being shielded by RTP, ....are they speaking up for justice? ...or are they just bantering among themselves, or perhaps they only talk about it when their farang husbands broach the issue?

I'm asking sincerely, because I don't know. Are there blogs in Thai, other than CSI LA, where Thais are speaking up? Or perhaps it's like Thai elections, where all Thais know there are pay-for-votes by political parties, but no Thais do anything about it. The miscarriage of justice going on now at KT and Samui is not just a farang thing. It effects Thailand's image and could also badly affect some of Thailand's top brass, in both the police and military. If Thais really care about their country, they should speak out loudly.

Well, I've suggested similar things in the past in letters to newspaper editors, regarding Thais trashing their national parks and coasts, so maybe I should just lean back and try to accept 'Thainess': Some things are very important and sacrosant, like Sangha and Royalty, and other Thai things are 'mai pen rai' (no big deal), like trashing nature and the skewed justice system.

[loonodingle]

Total incompetent to loose DNA samples. Whoever is responsible should be fired, stripped of their pension and jailed to save them from their own future stupidity.

Interesting development - seems like the DNA from the bodies is not actually missing after all, it is actually in Bangkok according to the the Phangan police who were the main investigators.

More mud in the water. If that is true then it will be interesting to see if it can be 'found'. I expect not myself, or if 'found' it won't be made available for independent testing.

If it is located, which it will be if it is still around and the court gives permission for the defence to get independent testing carried out on it then it will happen.

Koh Samui Court approved the independent verification in April.

They Police wouldn't hand it over and now the defence are applying for a Warrant to get whatever is there. So then today the Police have said they dont have it. They say they don't know what the institute off science may have retained but the officers today said it is finished or lost.

They did say both things finished or lost.

Still its not important hey because why would the police lie about it.

[Jimlove]

Boycott Thailand indeed - nothing but sh1t to see here ...

[fgmr]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.

They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

Lucky11, not this time, you are playing with two peoples ' lives.. Wake up sonny, get a better more powerful magnifying glass. There is no way that both documents have been written by the same person, This is typical of some of the BS that appears on this website. I am just very glad when I do read some genuinely intelligent and original thinking posts. Sleep well.

[loonodingle]

Sounds like further Bull-shit from the Defense, which is what they want.

Andy Hall is not bias! He has stated his personal opinion on several links but without Evidence. He tries to sound neutral but makes mistakes. He makes a good living here without working! Unless someone can show me he is given money from his mother, and it comes from other sources.

A Gravy Train is just that! The smart ones know how to find it and pump it. The many dumb ones support it!

A Fact of Life! .

Andy Hall "makes a good living here without working!" This is scurrilous garbage -- like everything you write. I will take this back if you immediately show the "evidence", oh how you love that word, Buggy, of the source and figures of Mr. Hall's income. If you can't, please, please, please <deleted>.

Bloody good this trial isn't about Andy Hall then.

If it wasn't for Andy Hall these 2 young men would be jailed by now. It is through his contacts that many things have happened. His selfless act in supporting this case and raising awareness has been a godsend.

As for you GOLDBUGGY, if you was only half the Man Andy hall is you could be proud. As it is u r not much more than what I just trod in when I got out my car and scrapped on the kerb. If your only resort is to trash people who are helping perhaps some treatment wouldn't go a miss.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Post # 205

"I reckon the boys also know who did it, and while they may have been brave enough to recant their confessions citing duress, they will certainly be too terrified to say who actually did it. I am sure they know how much influence and power is at the hands of the real perps, and being a stuck in that h there jail would not be a safe place for a witness to be"

Should the 2B actually know who committed the murders, I am confident that the Defense Team also know..

Your Right. The 22 Year Old Boys, which in my country we call "Men", know who did it. Easy for them to figure out, if it was them!

At my age, anybody below 40 is a boy or lad to me.

You know they did it, how? Based on the very flimsy and suspect "evidence" of the RTP?

Their Sperm from both of the accused found inside Hannah to me is not "Flimsy Evidence". It is "Incriminating Evidence".

Hannah was only 1 year older than "The Boys", but I do not see anyone make reference to her as "The Girl". In any country they would both be considered Adults, and not Boys, and they are being Tried in an Adult Court, and not in a Juvenile Court. .

[boomerangutang]

so much is being said about this trial if a separate dna test is allowed all being well it might prove these boys innocent but this is Thailand and apparently all the evidence points to these two boys being guilty, a fit up from start to finish .

It might also prove them Guilty beyond any reasonable doubt to. So why risk that?

Personally, and if I was the Defense, what I would do is try and convince a Judge that the DNA Collected was flawed. Has "discrepancies" and such, in the hopes this Judge would throw this out as Evidence. Which at this point is probably the most damaging evidence the Prosecution has.

How would you react to getting the Brit DNA typing from Hannah (it's more reliable than anything the Thais could come up, even the RTP admit that), and having the Brits compare it to DNA of ALL PERSONS OF INTEREST. If you're like jdinasia or AleG, that would be anathema, because they don't want Mon or Nomsod or their mafia-wannabe buddies investigated or even mentioned on any level. But you and Crab seem to have a semblance of fair play, and perhaps a modicum of wanting to see justice done. Would you be in favor of that? Please try to answer the Q without going off on tangents.

What else could be expected than the Thais losing key evidence. Release them.

Here are some other things which could transpire:

Judge accepts DNA trail as described by prosecution

Judge disregards DNA, but continues trial - based on other 'evidence' the prosecution presents.

B2 mysteriously die in custody

One or more key defense witnesses get hushed or wasted by mysterious people who get away.

B2 are found guilty based on hearsay and the phone & sunglasses supposedly found at their premises.

.......to answer the Q "What else could be expected...?" This is Thailand, all sorts of weird things could happen. Stay tuned.

P.S. I hope no one else gets hurt, except the real perps of the heinous crime.

[KamalaRider]

This development implies the opposite ie: that they are still around and in BK. If they are found then they will (if the judge deems it so) be tested, as the prosecution will have to abide by the judges decision on this.

As I asked earlier - do you personally think these samples will be found, and do you think that if found then independent re-testing will be allowed?

Yes and yes.

Are you for real?

[Lorn]

I said at the time that any DNA evidence found at the scene wouldn't necessarily prove they killed the girl. They could have violated her after she was killed.

Oh that's OK then - apologise and let them go!!

Only you said that. Of course it's not ok. But it's a remotely plausible scenario, albeit macabre. Instead of flying off the handle, why don't you join those of us who are sincerely trying to gauge what the real evidence is, and where it leads - and who was really guilty of the heinous crime of double murder.

It's also not ok to steal a pair of sunglasses. But if that's the worst that the B2 did, we want to know, so as not to see them executed for worse crimes - as scapegoats for evil men who, it appears, will get off scot-free - to kill and rape again - knowing they're untouchable.

Steffi did you see what was done to her face? It's bad enough thinking two people would want to have sex with a corpse....but to rape a corpse that was in that condition?

[thesetat2013]

Has anyone even bothered to put themselves into the shoes of those 2B? If they know they are guilty and their lawyer comes to them and says (Do you agree to request the DNA be tested independently? If an independent test is done and shows you are a match then you will probably be given the death sentence. But if it comes back that you dont match then you have a chance to fight this charge. If we don't do the independent tests then we could fight how the DNA was gathered and how the DNA was contaminated at the crime scene)

Now, If you are one of those boys and you know for sure you killed those tourists. Would you take a chance having an independent test prove your guilt?

If you were innocent and knew this for a fact then wouldn't you want a chance to prove this? Which would you choose for each scenario?

My bet is nobody would choose the independent test for fear of the death penalty with no chance of fighting the case anymore if they were actually guilty. Which is why it is really no surprise that the BIB doesn't have any more DNA to use for independent testing.

They know those boys would not make a request like this that would incriminate them without any doubt. Excuses to follow (thai style) in the next few hearings.

[KamalaRider]

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

Lucky11, not this time, you are playing with two peoples ' lives.. Wake up sonny, get a better more powerful magnifying glass. There is no way that both documents have been written by the same person, This is typical of some of the BS that appears on this website. I am just very glad when I do read some genuinely intelligent and original thinking posts. Sleep well.

Don't fall into Lucky11's trap, he's on a mission and he's got an agenda and that agenda is VERY clear, he dismiss everything that is in favour of the two Burmese "men", in such a way that if anyone would do what he's doing in Sweden, he would be accused of being involved in the crime itself, but that's Sweden.

[phantomfiddler]

Pathetic, but typical

[26vinny]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

how naive you really are or stupid, people have family`s, the translators family will be the biggest part of the threat, and that modern day stuff u know mobile phones, gee some people. you must be part of RTP for sure

[boomerangutang]

Kamala, I doubt I'm the only one wanting to know this, but is that really the dog's tongue, ....or a piece of bublle gum in a trick photo, or....?