Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[boomerangutang]

I truly think this case is a setup from start to Finnish. I am a great believer in Karma and what high up Buda Monks can do. I hope all good THAIS who can see this case for what it realy is go the thier temples and ask the top mnks to send bad Karma to the people who falsified this case against these poor innocent Kidd's. My wife brother is very high monk with his look alike animal skin robes and he loves me I am going to ask him to try do something.

Here's one 'karma' outcome: One or more top brass, who stand to be investigated for fabricating evidence and/or intentionally framing innocents - may eventually be summoned to appear before a disciplinary panel of their peers. Just before the hearing date he/they empty their bank accounts and split permanently to the US or Europe or some comfortable place far from the short arm of Thai law (they woudn't be pursued, btw).

Does that sound like a pipe dream? It's happened before in Thailand in similar circumstances. A top police brass was facing disciplinary action for the same trespasses mentioned above (re; a pretty young farang gal who was murdered in Bkk). Right before his arraignment, he took all his money and permanently split. He's now in Miami, living comfortably, with no concerns for Thai officials trying to bring him back to face his karma.

As for Thai ideas of karma? No problem. Buy the right type of talismans, and get the right sorts of voodoo protection from a head monk, and they'll be protected.

[StealthEnergiser]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

The pictures of the hoe in its 'found' condition were all over the place the first day or two, even some news sites iirc.

Clothes of course were not neatly stacked in the least as has been seen in previous photos since day 1 again. This trial is the first time I've heard it claimed they were neatly stacked and I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one.

but it looks like the hoe that forensics examined had been washed a

U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

“Also, police cajoled him to say he washed off the blood from the hoe. However, that is not what he told the judge. He said that he had not paid any attention to the hoe and was not aware of whether there was any blood on it or not.”

The defence team previously requested the DNA sample to be re-examined by Thailand’s top forensic expert, Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

Ah do you mean that possible evidence on the hoe was cleaned off during the original forensic examination thus making it possibly less useful for forensic purposes now? or that it looked like it had been cleaned prior to forensic testing?

First images in google (images) for 'koh tao hoe' show it in its original 'found' condition.

I don't think the pictures of he hoe with all the blood on it was tested by forensics I recall seeing a video of forensic person with swabbing the hoe it didn't look like there was much blood .

Now it seems that there is a disagreement about the hoe maybe the bloodied one was not tested.

Maybe the photo of the bloody hoe got out before the crime scene was set up just a possibility.

I just think that those very early photo's the were released need more looking into .

If anyone can find the video of the police boss arriving buy helicopter to inspect the scene that video shows forensics on the beach swaying the hoe.

[boomerangutang]

Somyot said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted.

Why is the court accepting "vague testimony" and not insisting on clear, accurate and precise testimony from senior police officers ?

Because this is Thailand. Clear precise speaking abilities are not taught in school, nor any other time in a young person's life. The way a person speaks is a window in how they think.

Have you seen comments by Thais on Facebook? Every single comment, of tens of thousands, are partial sentences reeking with slang, innuendo and exclamation marks. I'd be surprised if you find one plain sentence among them.

[Lee4Life]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

Well there is cctv video footage of David walking back down the strip around 1.30am iirc, apparently on his way to look for Hannah, and he did not appear worse for wear at that time.

Correct...and to say that University students are unfamiliar with alcohol is an unbelievably naïve statement.

[mmh8]

For those still contemplating if these 2 really did do the deed. The incompetance of thai police shines through brightly here. It would not make a difference , they are 2 incompetant to make a real case, one taxi motorcycle asked to cart evidence away in his pocket, look in lost item store in police station, find a few items to wrap up and present to court.

As for the difference between finished and lost it means the same thing. The question being asked do you have the sample - the answer no but we have lost enough face over our botched investigation. judge should kick entire case out of court slap them around the face a few times with the words, thai thai same same, dont thai to me

Edited July 11, 2015 by mmh8

[stephenterry]

It wasn't meant to be a comparison to David Miller in size and age to a 64 year old man. It was meant to show that even though you may look innocent, and are small in size, it does not mean you cannot commit murder.

Hardly a fair comparison, this man was 64 and murdered by pirates on his own yacht.

David Miller was 24, allegedly murdered by hospitality workers on a resort island.

Noticed that the 3 accused were all Burmese, and like the 2 accused, and in looks and size. They admitted to the crime after an eye witness, and DNA tests on there bloody clothes.Two of the accused, aged 19 and 18, got 25 Year in Prison, as they pleading guilty and had their sentence cut into half. he third accused was also found guilty of murder. But he was only 17 years old. A Real Boy! He will be held in custody until he is 24 years old. They were also all fishermen, which hardly puts them in the Body Building Weight Class.

So if there was a comparison at all then it is with these 3 Convicted Burmese Murders, and the accused, to show that their looks, size, age, and the country they come from, has nothing to do with whether or not they can commit murder.

It's more to do with whether the B2 had the prime motivation and desire to take on and take out a far larger guy to commit rape and then brutally murder his female companion. What for? An i-phone and sunglasses? Lust is not such a motivation, as it has been pointed out by more qualified people than me. Hopefully, the defence can counter the prosecution's assertions by providing alibis plus character witnesses, plus possibly a qualified psychologist?

Pirates (the name qualifies them as vicious thugs), on the other hand, have the prime motivation to rob, and to take out anyone who gets in their way. It's a different mind set, IMO.

Anyway, granted the perps could have been of different sizes and still carried out the crimes.

[mmh8]

the claim of beatings is probably true. I remember watching a documentary on an African country where police are trying to find a murderer. They round up their normal suspects - a bunch of kids with no homes , they tie them upside hangking by the legs from a tree and beat them with sticks. it is standard procedure for an investigation. they then have to work out if the kids admit just to stop the beating or because they actually did the deed.

either way it is seen as a normal step in the investigation in africa.

my point is if this is the case why don't the thai police do the same, try and find out if the 2b only admitted becasue of the beating or becuase they done it? -

[StealthEnergiser]

this is the hoe that was inspected by forensics - it is not in the same place as the one with all the blood and there is not as much blood on it as the one in the garden bed.

[StealthEnergiser]

the hoe begins at 1.06

[Rykbanlor]

the claim of beatings is probably true. I remember watching a documentary on an African country where police are trying to find a murderer. They round up their normal suspects - a bunch of kids with no homes , they tie them upside hangking by the legs from a tree and beat them with sticks. it is standard procedure for an investigation. they then have to work out if the kids admit just to stop the beating or because they actually did the deed. either way it is seen as a normal step in the investigation in africa. my point is if this is the case why don't the thai police do the same, try and find out if the 2b only admitted becasue of the beating or becuase they done it? -

Because they know the B2 didn't do it - thats why they had to beat them in the first place. It would unravel their well paid work.

[kkup]

What's next after Somyots latest save face maneuver. I wonder if they are all in a room concocting the next move. The judge rules the evidence won't be retested and the Police have done a great job. Verdict - Guilty.

[spidermike007]

Why would they want journalists to be privy to this trial? They have everything to lose, and little to gain, it would seem. Fair trial?

[Maggusoil]

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

Rational thought and deduction hey?

I guess that could explain how people who are on pretty ordinary salaries come to be multi millionaires, of what is commonly known as "unusual wealth"

But,yeah, Its because they are stock market geniuses, right?

Do wake up old boy, or if you happened to be nestled in your farang utopia..then go back to sleep and save us!!

I'd say this is pretty indicative of the standard of posting on this thread...... The poster clearly hasn't even bothered to read my post before making a comment that has no connection it and then includes an ad hominem comment for good measure.

Whatever, . . . . what trial is a real trial without a jury? This whole legal system is obscene. The jury system in the west is under attack but we still have it, at least.

[GOLDBUGGY]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

I can answer that for you.

All 3 where captured on CCTV in the 7-11 Store buying alcohol and these L&M Cigarettes on the night of the murders and before the murders happened. They then went to the beach and sat on a log and drank and played their Guitar, which they themselves admitted to. Also 1 of the Migrant Workers, left early (1 am), and he testified to that.

The Police knew early on in the investigation that there were 3 people on the beach that night playing a guitar and singing. Nobody could identify them though, as all they knew about them then was that they were singing a Country Western Song in English. They were not considered suspects then and were only wanted for questioning.

The significance of the L&M Cigarettes Butts is that they were found on the beach only meters away from Hannah's Dead Body. Since Hannah and David both did not smoke, and they were the only cigarettes Butts their, they concluded that this may tie them to the murdered(s). So they preformed DNA Samples on them.

It was never really stated why, but someone got the idea to test the cigarette butts by the log, and where the guys on the beach were playing their guitar. When that DNA Matched the ones on the Crime Scene the 3 wanted for questioning where now prime suspects. Again to my knowledge, there was no details on how they were able to narrow down the search to these 3 guys, when again to my knowledge nobody could positively identify them their. But somehow they did and the accused admitted to being their at that time.

They were brought in for questioning and when they said they did not know anything about the murders and where not anywhere near the Crime Scene they were arrested on "Immigration Violations" and held in Custody. In the mean time they were further interrogated and an ongoing investigation was started as into their residence, any potential witnesses, and DNA testing to see if it Matched Hannah's DNA Sperm Sample. They confessed after the match of DNA Samples.

Could all this have been planted? Anything is possible. But then you would have to wonder about this to. Why these 2? I mean they had questioned at least 60 Migrant Workers just on the first day, so why not one of them. Half the Island is full of Migrant Workers. One media put the number at 2,000. So with all this media pressure to solve the case why not take one of them instead. Surely not everyone else has a good Alibi. Especially where the crimes took place early in the morning.

But no, the police wait a full two more weeks under intense media pressure and selected these 2 accused, out of a possible 2,000. But here is the kicker! It just so happens that 1 of the accused had David Millers Cell Phone.Since many assume that the Police had beaten a confession out of them he does not say he took the cell phone from Davids Dead Body or His Belongings. No! He says he found it on the beach that night.

Oh! What an Extraordinary Coincidence! That the 2 accused that was selected randomly out of a possible 2,000 others, and who the Police waited an extra 2 weeks to arrest them, just so happened to find the Murder Victims Cell Phone on the beach on the night murders.

Up to You!

.

[jdinasia]

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

Rational thought and deduction hey?

I guess that could explain how people who are on pretty ordinary salaries come to be multi millionaires, of what is commonly known as "unusual wealth"

But,yeah, Its because they are stock market geniuses, right?

Do wake up old boy, or if you happened to be nestled in your farang utopia..then go back to sleep and save us!!

I'd say this is pretty indicative of the standard of posting on this thread...... The poster clearly hasn't even bothered to read my post before making a comment that has no connection it and then includes an ad hominem comment for good measure.

Whatever, . . . . what trial is a real trial without a jury? This whole legal system is obscene. The jury system in the west is under attack but we still have it, at least.

Many places have trials without juries, and even in the US defendants can choose to have no jury.

[Rykbanlor]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

I can answer that for you.

All 3 where captured on CCTV in the 7-11 Store buying alcohol and these L&M Cigarettes on the night of the murders and before the murders happened. They then went to the beach and sat on a log and drank and played their Guitar, which they themselves admitted to. Also 1 of the Migrant Workers, left early (1 am), and he testified to that.

The Police knew early on in the investigation that there were 3 people on the beach that night playing a guitar and singing. Nobody could identify them though, as all they knew about them then was that they were singing a Country Western Song in English. They were not considered suspects then and were only wanted for questioning.

The significance of the L&M Cigarettes Butts is that they were found on the beach only meters away from Hannah's Dead Body. Since Hannah and David both did not smoke, and they were the only cigarettes Butts their, they concluded that this may tie them to the murdered(s). So they preformed DNA Samples on them.

It was never really stated why, but someone got the idea to test the cigarette butts by the log, and where the guys on the beach were playing their guitar. When that DNA Matched the ones on the Crime Scene the 3 wanted for questioning where now prime suspects. Again to my knowledge, there was no details on how they were able to narrow down the search to these 3 guys, when again to my knowledge nobody could positively identify them their. But somehow they did and the accused admitted to being their at that time.

They were brought in for questioning and when they said they did not know anything about the murders and where not anywhere near the Crime Scene they were arrested on "Immigration Violations" and held in Custody. In the mean time they were further interrogated and an ongoing investigation was started as into their residence, any potential witnesses, and DNA testing to see if it Matched Hannah's DNA Sperm Sample. They confessed after the match of DNA Samples.

Could all this have been planted? Anything is possible. But then you would have to wonder about this to. Why these 2? I mean they had questioned at least 60 Migrant Workers just on the first day, so why not one of them. Half the Island is full of Migrant Workers. One media put the number at 2,000. So with all this media pressure to solve the case why not take one of them instead. Surely not everyone else has a good Alibi. Especially where the crimes took place early in the morning.

But no, the police wait a full two more weeks under intense media pressure and selected these 2 accused, out of a possible 2,000. But here is the kicker! It just so happens that 1 of the accused had David Millers Cell Phone.Since many assume that the Police had beaten a confession out of them he does not say he took the cell phone from Davids Dead Body or His Belongings. No! He says he found it on the beach that night.

Oh! What an Extraordinary Coincidence! That the 2 accused that was selected randomly out of a possible 2,000 others, and who the Police waited an extra 2 weeks to arrest them, just so happened to find the Murder Victims Cell Phone on the beach on the night murders.

Up to You!

.

They didn't have David's phone, it was in some bushes near their shack. Allegedly. And there was a lot of initial confusion over whose phone it was.

Although I grant you, a phone dumped in bushes behind the accused residence would be really almost impossible to plant fake.

I assume they chose these guys out of the 2000, because they were seen on the beach that night playing guitar which makes it easier to link, than 2 other random guys from the mass of immigrants

[KevWaters]

At first I read that there was DNA evidence inside her body. Now I read that the evidence was in a condom.

Forgive me, but ...was the condom in her body or was that in addition to the DNA in her body? Two samples or one? Either way, I can't see why they would be cautious of leaving DNA and then on the other hand be so reckless about it to either leave it behind in her or allow another to not use one.

How was far the condom from the scene? Did it have Hannah's DNA on it too? Which sample was tested against the headmans son? Both or just one?

My gut feeling is probably the same as most, it was the headmans son and friends and they have cleared him using one of the DNA samples his friend left behind.

Edited to be more clear.

Edited July 11, 2015 by KevWaters

[Chao Lao Beach]

We have suspects and we will be presented with evidence in court. If they are not good enough the "boys" will be set free,

No they will never be set free.

The judges will decide if guilty. Not a public jury. The PM has publicly declared that he has looked at the evidence and that they are guilty.

It's done, finished, over, before it has even begun. This is just for show so Thailand can show and say that there was a fair trial and they were found guilty fairly. What actually happens in the trial doesn't matter a jot to the outcome that is already decided.

Is there a reference of the red statment above ?

[gandalf12]

Appears to be more circumstantial evidence that facts. If this is so the case should be dismissed

[Rykbanlor]

Many places have trials without juries, and even in the US defendants can choose to have no jury.

No doubt, although it is a bit worrying in a country where it has been shown time and time again that very few people, from the lowest to the highest authority, don't have a price or are impervious to a little leverage.

[Geordie59]

Just when I thought this case could not any more ridiculous.........

[longylong]

Hi guys. I've been a lurker on this forum for ages, and spent a year in Thailand last year. Hi everyone.

I've just registered an account because I feel so strongly about this, please stop beating around the bush!

Of course, what events led to the tragic events will probably never be known. But please stop messing about and admit what we do know!

Mr X's family run the bar. Mr X's family member took offence to losing face to a faramg over a girl.

The western girl and the supporting western guy were killed, the girl was raped beforehand.

Can we all just stop sugar coating this? They were both killed by Mr X's family, who in turned stiched up a couple of lowely Burmese.

The corruption of the case goes to the top, and is made ever more evident by subsequent events on the island.

The Burmese 2 will either get found guilty and be punished by death, or get found innocent and be punished by death in a different way.

The poor families of the deceased will suffer forever, unsure wether justice has been done.

The family of Mr X will/will not remain on the island.

We dont need to keep talking about the <deleted> ups at the court, because we know why these <deleted> ups are happening.

I feel desperately sorry for the families, this is a war they will never win and it wasn't thier fault, nor was it the deceased, nor was it the Burmese.

I'm really upset by this whole thing.

[Elfin]

GOLDBUGGY

"Was David a Marital Arts Expert......?"

The unfortunate couple were not married GB

[al007]

I have not had an opinion till now on this case. Now I do and hope these judges have common sense.

I have no idea as I said in my last post how a condom is part of the evidence and if a proper DNA test was done I am 99% certain

it will come up without and DNA of the Myanmar suspects.

I have been a journalist for more than 30 years. covering many rape/murder scenes. Never in my reporting history has a condom been used by someone who is

raping and murdering someone. That type of mind set does not say " OH I am going to have sex with this person I will murder later so I should where a condom" or the other mind set is

" I Had better wear a condom so I don't leave my DNA"

Unless it is a boyfriend/girlfriend. husband/wife situation I don't think the mastermind of this murder will use a condom .

This whole case smells I hope these guy guilty or not have good lawyers

I live happily and contentedly her in Thailand

This whole situation worries and shocks me, but we need to remember this is Thailand, not London, and even in London there are bad police

The legal system here I personally believe is a very long way from usually accepted UK standards

There is no Jury only three judges, who are responsible to the prime minister ultimately, and even he was self appointed

I will write a little of an experience I witnessed in the last few months

My Thai father in law was a member of the village volunteer police, one night he the head man and five others followed a young man on a motor bike breaking windows etc, the young man got shot accidentally, the head man had called the police they told him to pursue and apprehend, all seven were charged with murder

I attended all the court hearings, only one judge, proper defences were not put up, all were tried on mass

Judge eventually after maybe 9mths sentenced them ALL to ten years in jail, all the defendants could be generally described as red shirts

Currently under appeal

The UK send police to look at matters, why no UK report, why do other countries allow this unsatisfactory method of justice

I can only pray and ask for proper justice to be served, I do not know if those charged are guilty, but entitled to be not guilty until proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt, and then prosecution or police refuse to allow defence to have access to the facts , ALL NO GOOD

[Rykbanlor]

Hi guys. I've been a lurker on this forum for ages, and spent a year in Thailand last year. Hi everyone.

I've just registered an account because I feel so strongly about this, please stop beating around the bush!

Of course, what events led to the tragic events will probably never be known. But please stop messing about and admit what we do know!

Mr X's family run the bar. Mr X's family member took offence to losing face to a faramg over a girl.

The western girl and the supporting western guy were killed, the girl was raped beforehand.

Can we all just stop sugar coating this? They were both killed by Mr X's family, who in turned stiched up a couple of lowely Burmese.

The corruption of the case goes to the top, and is made ever more evident by subsequent events on the island.

The Burmese 2 will either get found guilty and be punished by death, or get found innocent and be punished by death in a different way.

The poor families of the deceased will suffer forever, unsure wether justice has been done.

The family of Mr X will/will not remain on the island.

We dont need to keep talking about the <deleted> ups at the court, because we know why these <deleted> ups are happening.

I feel desperately sorry for the families, this is a war they will never win and it wasn't thier fault, nor was it the deceased, nor was it the Burmese.

I'm really upset by this whole thing.

The sad and upsetting truth, yes. You're right, theres little point in trying to analyze any of it really, sometimes it comes out compulsively though.

What continues to puzzle me is the dogged insistence of the handful of posters who consider the RTP beyond reproach. I shouldn't really respond.

[dvpscott]

Confusion reigns and the catalogue of ambiguity continues

The court has now been told that vital DNA evidence cannot be retested. At the end of the trial's third day, the judge said police had informed him all the samples taken on the island were "finished" - meaning they could not be analysed again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33473662

with reference to the cig buts , dna samples fro 2 Marlborough and 1 L&M , from BP

i dont think,they would be smoking malborough or L&M at 68 baht and 100 baht a packet,i dont no any shops that will sell these brands in one or two

[Tanlic]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

Edited July 11, 2015 by Tanlic

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Court orders retesting of evidence in Koh Tao murder case

By Mizzima

KOH SAMUI:-- The Samui Provincial Court has ordered remaining forensic evidence in the Koh Tao tourist murders case to be sent for re-examination at the Thai Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science in line with a defence request, according to local Thai media reports on July 10.

The court, in Surat Thani, yesterday ordered public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence found at the crime scene, including a shovel, for forensic retesting.

The news came after what appeared to be a misunderstanding in which it was said that some crucial DNA evidence would not be retested.

Myanmar migrant workers Ko Zaw Lin and Ko Win Zaw Htun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao island in September.

Both have pleaded not guilty.

Thai police and prosecutors say DNA evidence points towards the two 22-year-old suspects, but the defence claims the men have been scapegoated by an under pressure police force who bungled their investigation and coerced confessions from the pair.

- See more at: http://www.mizzima.com/news-regional/court-orders-retesting-evidence-koh-tao-murder-case

[boomerangutang]

Goldbuggy, I strongly suggest you read up on what led up to the trial. Either knowingly or unwittingly, you play fast and loose with what's been reported/announced during the past months. The last video of the 3 boys on the mototbike was around 5 hours before the crime. The cig but wasn't found at the crime scene, but over 50 meters away. Using those two bits of info, the RTP are saying a person is a murderer and rapist if he goes to a store 5 hours before a crime, and/or if he drops a cig but on a beach 50 meters from a crime scene.

Oh sorry, almost forgot, there's also the damning DNA evidence. The evidence which the Thai PM says, "if it's a match, then they must be the murderers." One slight problem; We're finding now that the RTP don't have that evidence, .....or maybe they do, ....or maybe it's all used up (pick which announcement suits). Either way, if they have it, it's probably someplace in Bangkok or maybe still in the Headman's fridge. As my dad might say, "I trust those guys as far as I can throw them."

Oh, and the crime very likely took place between 4:40 and 5 am. So most, if not all the CCTV hours prior doesn't have much bearing. Same for the cig butt and the condom.

It reminds me when I went to a Thai police station for the first time to report a stolen motorbike, Besides the fact that the man taking my statement was typing about 3 words per minute on a Thai typewriter, ...the cops were asking all the wrong questions! I didn't speak Thai well-enough to tell them that, and of course my Thai interpreter was too polite to suggest anything to policemen. After the 2.5 hour questioning which went nowhere, the told me that the person who stole it probably took it across the Myanmar border (1 hur north) to sell. I was aghast. I said, "why didn't you immediately contact the border guards and tell them to be on the lookout for that motorbike?!" They said, "oh, probably too late already."

I've had other encounters with Thai cops which indicate similar out-to-lunch mentality, so am not surprised at what's been happening in this KT investigation.

[ABCer]

"Nothing is missing. It's a misunderstanding," the police chief said.

Well, I am happy to hear this. And I really mean it!.

But I would like to understand the following:

For a few days in a Court of Law in the presence of:

High Ranking Police, experienced Lawyers, intelligent and experienced Reporters from different countries including Thailand and various technical Experts and Investigators

a misunderstanding of huge proportions takes place!

Now, for a comparison:

Many months back in a cell of some Police Detention Centre or in a Prison in the presence of:

illiterate poor Thai speaking Burmese suspects, maybe some local Lawyer (maybe not?), overbearing or overzealous Police officer - a document is written and signed by the suspects!

Please NOTE! I am not addressing the alleged torture, duress, corruption, pressure, politics (local, national and International)! Thanks for giving me credit for this.

Is it too much to ask in view of the above misunderstanding - how can the Court be sure of the validity of the "documents" representing the suspects "admissions"? To me these documents look like trash.