Bangkok suspends buying submarines from China over US concern: expert

[webfact]

THAI-US RELATIONS
Bangkok suspends buying submarines from China over US concern: expert

BANGKOK: -- A Chinese news website has reported that the relationship with the US is an important factor in Thailand's decision to put on hold plans to buy submarines from China.

The Global Times online quoted Li Haidong, a professor at China Foreign Affairs University, as saying it was clear that the US did not want to see closer cooperation between China and Thailand, especially in terms of military ties and defence.

From the perspective of foreign relations, it was understandable and predictable that Thailand considers its relationship with the US a very important diplomatic priority, Li said.

Thai deputy premier Prawit Wongsuwan said the US$1.6 billion acquisition for its first submarine from China was put on hold and that the Navy needed to further study the matter.

Meanwhile Lan Yun, deputy editorinchief of the Beijingbased Modern Ships magazine, told the website that the S26T Submarine China is the most costeffective model among all the bids.

"Thailand's defence ministry might not have reached a consensus with its finance ministry on the issue of cost and Thailand is not in urgent need of a submarine," Lan said.

With an AirIndependent Propulsion system, the 2,600ton submarine priced $355 million was obviously a better choice than the 900Ton S210 German submarine, costing around $340 million, Lan added.


-- The Nation 2015-07-17

[clockman]

Lets hope so! alot more important issues. To be solved. Like water managment!

[Just1Voice]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

[mikemac]

I don't think they were ever serious about buying those subs, the whole thing was a red herring.

Designed to divert certain TVF posters away from other things that actually were going to happen.

[chainarong]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

maybe, doubt it though

[smutcakes]

General Prawit according to news reports previously agreed in principle with the purchase.

Instead of passing the buck back to the Admirals, why does he, as Deputy PM and Defence Minister explain the reasoning behind the purchase to the Thai public. I presume given his approval that he has studied the issue........

Come on Prawit, stand up and front up as to why you agree with it?

[LannaGuy]

are you sure they weren't talking about opening 3 new Subways and some darlings misunderstood? I hear the Good General is partial to a veggie sandwich he being a good Buddhist and all

[chainarong]

The 7th fleet is popping up everywhere around OZ at the moment, I can tell you the US does not need Thailand, the carrier George Washington when leaving OZ generally hangs out for past 7 years around Japan, this time however it will just lay about in the south east Asian region ( somewhere) , one wonders why, those man made Island bases that China has built is probably the reason, China has shown it's hand as to what it stands for in the region and just maybe Thailand has been briefed by the US and allies on where they stand.

[BuckBee]

Sounds more likely a usable excuse to save bit of face on what was an ill thought out idea by uneducated military personnel. They keep whining on about the AIP system on the china subs but that standard tech & typically copied by chinese from western subs, also expecting a sub to be in service for 30 years kind of shows a lack of technical grasp :-/ they need learn think first & speak second.

[LomSak27]

Lets see, economy tanking, tourism down, drought warnings, baht dropping. farmers told to stop irrigating fields so the poor huddled masses in Bangkok can drink. Yet the Government decides to buy submarines for reasons no one can really figure out. Granted they would make a good task force with the aircraft carrier Thailand owns but ..... And people are justifiably upset

Nothing to do but cancel the deal and .... drumroll please ....... try and blame the stop order on ....The Amerikans

Say what you will you have to be impressed at the lengths The Nation will go to deflect and spin a pooch screw .... Go Team!

[mikemac]

Lets see, economy tanking, tourism down, drought warnings, baht dropping. farmers told to stop irrigating fields so the poor huddled masses in Bangkok can drink. Yet the Government decides to buy submarines for reasons no one can really figure out. Granted they would make a good task force with the aircraft carrier Thailand owns but ..... And people are justifiably upset

Nothing to do but cancel the deal and .... drumroll please ....... try and blame the stop order on ....The Amerikans

Say what you will you have to be impressed at the lengths The Nation will go to deflect and spin a pooch screw .... Go Team!

I am impressed at the lengths you go to paint such a tragic picture of Thailand burning, while you strum your fiddle. You sound simply ecstatic at the thought of it.

[FritsSikkink]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

[smutcakes]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

Whilst i don't disregard the arrogance of the US, they could make Thailand, and probably China's economies sink without a trace if they really felt like it, like has happened with Russia and the US's European allies.

Getting on a few of the bad lists of the US, a quick bit of behind the scenes deals and both countries economies would be on the skids.

In a fight with China, the US could partner with Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippines already and no doubt anyone else they fancied.

The US are interfering <deleted> a lot of the time, but to pretend they are not the main superpower is naivety in the extreme. There is a reason why every wealthy Asian sends their children for education in the West and the majority of them have houses and holiday homes there.

[Somtamnication]

I understand USA's concern. I can read the news now, 5 years later:

BREAKING NEWS:

Thai subs attack Pearl Harbour!

[FritsSikkink]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

Whilst i don't disregard the arrogance of the US, they could make Thailand, and probably China's economies sink without a trace if they really felt like it, like has happened with Russia and the US's European allies.

Getting on a few of the bad lists of the US, a quick bit of behind the scenes deals and both countries economies would be on the skids.

In a fight with China, the US could partner with Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippines already and no doubt anyone else they fancied.

The US are interfering <deleted> a lot of the time, but to pretend they are not the main superpower is naivety in the extreme. There is a reason why every wealthy Asian sends their children for education in the West and the majority of them have houses and holiday homes there.

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

[smutcakes]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

Whilst i don't disregard the arrogance of the US, they could make Thailand, and probably China's economies sink without a trace if they really felt like it, like has happened with Russia and the US's European allies.

Getting on a few of the bad lists of the US, a quick bit of behind the scenes deals and both countries economies would be on the skids.

In a fight with China, the US could partner with Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippines already and no doubt anyone else they fancied.

The US are interfering <deleted> a lot of the time, but to pretend they are not the main superpower is naivety in the extreme. There is a reason why every wealthy Asian sends their children for education in the West and the majority of them have houses and holiday homes there.

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

People use the dollar because they trust it..... Try going to one of their allies and suggesting they take Angolan wotsits for this and that.... or suggesting an Angolan boss takes Rubles or Yuan instead of dollars... good luck.

Why don't you explain your rationale of that comment?

[djjamie]

Lets see, economy tanking, tourism down, drought warnings, baht dropping. farmers told to stop irrigating fields so the poor huddled masses in Bangkok can drink. Yet the Government decides to buy submarines for reasons no one can really figure out. Granted they would make a good task force with the aircraft carrier Thailand owns but ..... And people are justifiably upset

Nothing to do but cancel the deal and .... drumroll please ....... try and blame the stop order on ....The Amerikans

Say what you will you have to be impressed at the lengths The Nation will go to deflect and spin a pooch screw .... Go Team!

I am impressed at the lengths you go to paint such a tragic picture of Thailand burning, while you strum your fiddle. You sound simply ecstatic at the thought of it.

The irony is they purport to want the majority to have a voice and decide to speak for them instead of on behalf of them and to show how much they truly detest that majority they want to see the country fail so they can say "I told you say".

They don't want to offer input or constructive criticism. They don't want to join panels or TV shows. They don't want to debate policy. They have wonderful excuses to dodge moving the country forward. They think moving the country forward involves breaking the law, starting rumours, spreading lies, trying to divide the nation and inciting unrest which does nothing for the majority except hurt them. All the while they purporting to respect that majority. The very same majority they hope suffers under the Junta simply to say "I told you so".

They use this majority as a tool that is driven by hate instead of respect.

I look forward to the business case from the Navy regarding these submarines though as does the majority no doubt. The majority the Junta listened to when they voiced their disapproval of this purchase.

[FritsSikkink]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

Whilst i don't disregard the arrogance of the US, they could make Thailand, and probably China's economies sink without a trace if they really felt like it, like has happened with Russia and the US's European allies.

Getting on a few of the bad lists of the US, a quick bit of behind the scenes deals and both countries economies would be on the skids.

In a fight with China, the US could partner with Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippines already and no doubt anyone else they fancied.

The US are interfering <deleted> a lot of the time, but to pretend they are not the main superpower is naivety in the extreme. There is a reason why every wealthy Asian sends their children for education in the West and the majority of them have houses and holiday homes there.

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

People use the dollar because they trust it..... Try going to one of their allies and suggesting they take Angolan wotsits for this and that.... or suggesting an Angolan boss takes Rubles or Yuan instead of dollars... good luck.

Why don't you explain your rationale of that comment?

there you go, never too old to learn something

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/

[NeverSure]

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

LOL. All the US would have to do and should do is put a 30% import duty on anything coming in from China. Right now the US charges zero - zip - nada import duties on products made in China.

The duty would cause manufacturing to rush back to the US because shipping from China is very expensive already, and wages are getting not so cheap in China.

The US has to ship raw cotton to China before it can be made into clothes and the ship the clothes back, for instance because China can't grow the cotton. This is too much slippage to survive an import duty.

Here is a very valid article from Forbes:

China Is 175.6% Dependent on the U.S.

LINK

[FritsSikkink]

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

LOL. All the US would have to do and should do is put a 30% import duty on anything coming in from China. Right now the US charges zero - zip - nada import duties on products made in China.

The duty would cause manufacturing to rush back to the US because shipping from China is very expensive already, and wages are getting not so cheap in China.

The US has to ship raw cotton to China before it can be made into clothes and the ship the clothes back, for instance because China can't grow the cotton. This is too much slippage to survive an import duty.

Here is a very valid article from Forbes:

China Is 175.6% Dependent on the U.S.

LINK

import duty won't help, EU has 60% on items and still imports. shipping ain't expensive

[smutcakes]

[quote

People use the dollar because they trust it..... Try going to one of their allies and suggesting they take Angolan wotsits for this and that.... or suggesting an Angolan boss takes Rubles or Yuan instead of dollars... good luck.

Why don't you explain your rationale of that comment?

there you go, never too old to learn something

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/

Thanks for responding, but it goes no way to say anything about how or why Russia, China could ally up with anyone to cause problems for the US. The US has been playing these games for decades and look at the respective economies and living standards of people in the countries.

If people really believed all that why does nearly every Govt in the world rightly or wrongly pander to the US. Just exactly who exactly they going to get into bed with that could possibly threaten the US and their allies?

Anyone can dislike the ways the US goes about some things, and their hypocritical manner on many things, but at the end of the day, you ask nearly any despot or country leader in the world, behind closed doors and they would want to be sitting on US dollars and trading with the US.

I lived in Moscow for a year at the peak of their powers around 2007-2008 when commodity prices were sky high and they were raking in about a 1bn dollars a day from one commodity alone, but yet you travel 15 km from the centre of Moscow and it was complete desperation, or at least that for someone who has lived in more modernised society.

Again i don't love the US by any stretch of the imagination, but to pretend they need Thailand or really care about them is complete rubbish,. A convenient ally yes of course, but absolutely necessary, no way.

[LomSak27]

I am impressed at the lengths you go to paint such a tragic picture of Thailand burning, while you strum your fiddle. You sound simply ecstatic at the thought of it.

Ok, yes, this is TV, so gleefully carping off on a tangent is almost an expectation.

However no. I was not gleeful at all. I emphasized it to highlight how out of touch the military, the guys running the country, are. There are indeed problems, so what do they do ….. Bloody well buy toys! Which have no real purpose except for the sake of boys want toys. What happens? They tick off a lot of people. Even their supporters are hacked. The Nation newspaper itself, after giving the obligatory kowtowing try …. Gives up

At which point you have this article. If it’s a stiffening corpse by the side of the road, at least let’s toss it at the amerguns and salvage something.

Not gleeful but I gotta laugh, otherwise I’d be catching the next flight.

[rametindallas]

Sounds more likely a usable excuse to save bit of face on what was an ill thought out idea by uneducated military personnel. They keep whining on about the AIP system on the china subs but that standard tech & typically copied by chinese from western subs, also expecting a sub to be in service for 30 years kind of shows a lack of technical grasp :-/ they need learn think first & speak second.

The US may have pointed out that, if tensions escalate beyond a certain point, Thailand will have to publicly choose sides and if it chooses the US, China will no longer support the maintenance of the submarines.

This statement may also be a face-saving way to explain why the PM turned down the Navy's request.

For those who argue that Thailand should have submarines because Thailand's neighbors have submarines, how many of Thailand's neighbors have an aircraft carrier? Far fewer countries in the world have an aircraft carrier than have submarines. The Navy should be lobbying to get some reconnaissance planes to put on its aircraft carrier to monitor for pirates, people smugglers, and foreign fishing trawlers operating illegally in Thai waters.

[smutcakes]

Sounds more likely a usable excuse to save bit of face on what was an ill thought out idea by uneducated military personnel. They keep whining on about the AIP system on the china subs but that standard tech & typically copied by chinese from western subs, also expecting a sub to be in service for 30 years kind of shows a lack of technical grasp :-/ they need learn think first & speak second.

The US may have pointed out that, if tensions escalate beyond a certain point, Thailand will have to publicly choose sides and if it chooses the US, China will no longer support the maintenance of the submarines.

This statement may also be a face-saving way to explain why the PM turned down the Navy's request.

For those who argue that Thailand should have submarines because Thailand's neighbors have submarines, how many of Thailand's neighbors have an aircraft carrier? Far fewer countries in the world have an aircraft carrier than have submarines. The Navy should be lobbying to get some reconnaissance planes to put on its aircraft carrier to monitor for pirates, people smugglers, and foreign fishing trawlers operating illegally in Thai waters.

I would of hoped with a 200 million baht budget that political connotations along with the viable options which you suggest were also included..... unless it all went on 1st class flights, booze and strippers......

I wait with baited breath to see some evidence of the report which General Prawit made his agreement with the proposal.......

[NeverSure]

import duty won't help, EU has 60% on items and still imports. shipping ain't expensive

No wonder things are so darned expensive in the EU and why guys think Thailand is cheap while I think Thailand is darned expensive other than housing. I just bought a really nice Toshiba Satellite Laptop with valid Win 8.1 for $US 395 - 17,000 baht out the door, all in. All legit, good warranty, US consumer protection...

The EU doesn't have the manufacturing capability of the US and those jobs would come flowing back to the US with a 30% import duty. Ford just opened another huge manufacturing plant in Mexico, BTW. GM and Ford both have plants there now. Transportation and management are both more efficient than China due to distance and neighboring land. They would love to have China's manufacturing too.

The US has developed the manufacturing capability to make clothes without human intervention - all robotic. That's cheaper than Chinese labor and it can be done in the cotton belt where the materials are. The days of 3rd world countries making clothing are coming to an end.

Cheers

[AG1]

I understand USA's concern. I can read the news now, 5 years later:

BREAKING NEWS:

Thai subs attack Pearl Harbour!

With homemade high Pressure Water Guns from the last Songkran Festival ?

[Nice Boyd]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

that would be very stupid because the US doesn't want to loose Thailand as an friendly nation to China. the Thais had enough of the loudmouths and taught them a lesson: shutup or we go to China

Whilst i don't disregard the arrogance of the US, they could make Thailand, and probably China's economies sink without a trace if they really felt like it, like has happened with Russia and the US's European allies.

Getting on a few of the bad lists of the US, a quick bit of behind the scenes deals and both countries economies would be on the skids.

In a fight with China, the US could partner with Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippines already and no doubt anyone else they fancied.

The US are interfering <deleted> a lot of the time, but to pretend they are not the main superpower is naivety in the extreme. There is a reason why every wealthy Asian sends their children for education in the West and the majority of them have houses and holiday homes there.

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

People use the dollar because they trust it..... Try going to one of their allies and suggesting they take Angolan wotsits for this and that.... or suggesting an Angolan boss takes Rubles or Yuan instead of dollars... good luck.

Why don't you explain your rationale of that comment?

u Back in the day when Russians mattered, you could watch the Currency booth at Tesco Jomtien and all u saw were Stacks of $100's from the Russians, never saw Ruble

[bil2054]

Just a quick note/opinion;
I do not see any real use for a submarine fleet for Thailand. If they really want some they could pick up, for instance, a Whiskey Class 1,000 ton sub for less than TB 20,000,000...http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html

[selftaopath]

they need learn think first & speak second.

Yes and in so so so many areas of concern. I really marvel at some of the statements these "govt. leaders" make. They really reinforce the idea of bought degrees and nepotism v.s. knowledge/skill/expertise.

[selftaopath]

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

LOL. All the US would have to do and should do is put a 30% import duty on anything coming in from China. Right now the US charges zero - zip - nada import duties on products made in China.

The duty would cause manufacturing to rush back to the US because shipping from China is very expensive already, and wages are getting not so cheap in China.

The US has to ship raw cotton to China before it can be made into clothes and the ship the clothes back, for instance because China can't grow the cotton. This is too much slippage to survive an import duty.

Here is a very valid article from Forbes:

China Is 175.6% Dependent on the U.S.

LINK

I'd love to know why the US doesn't address the glaring discrepancy between US exports to Thailand and US imports from Thailand.

Can you imagine a WalMart or 3 here in Land of Scams?