Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[sweatalot]

While most of us here are seeking the truth and justice, there are some who wants the B2 to be guilty, regardless of whether they are or not. I wonder why?

nothing to wonder about

doesn't making the B2 look guilty and keep the focus on them

remove focus from the real murderers ?

Edited September 11, 2015 by sweatalot

[beammeup]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

The condom and the cig butt are non-issues. Beam yourself up to what's been happening. Even the glass is a non-issue. We didn't hear mention of glass being found at or near the crime until recently. The only significance of glass-used-as-weapon is it's proof the B2 were tortured, because they wouldn't have admitted to using glass if they weren't tortured. Reason? Because there was no glass, broken or whole, at the crime scene, and the first mention of glass was when the roti-seller (and/or an RTP'man) introduced the idea at the interrogation. Since there are so many issues and bits of evidence that do or could point to the real culprits, let's not get sidelined (and wasting time) with items which are unimportant to solving the crime.

Well excuuuse me some of us have lives that involve other things than spinning ourselves into a tizzy onThaivisa. There is so much BS on here how could anyone follow it. Maybe the glass bottle or what ever it was floated away when the tide came in?

[lucaswallachia]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

[lucaswallachia]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

The condom and the cig butt are non-issues. Beam yourself up to what's been happening. Even the glass is a non-issue. We didn't hear mention of glass being found at or near the crime until recently. The only significance of glass-used-as-weapon is it's proof the B2 were tortured, because they wouldn't have admitted to using glass if they weren't tortured. Reason? Because there was no glass, broken or whole, at the crime scene, and the first mention of glass was when the roti-seller (and/or an RTP'man) introduced the idea at the interrogation. Since there are so many issues and bits of evidence that do or could point to the real culprits, let's not get sidelined (and wasting time) with items which are unimportant to solving the crime.

Well they said they had beers and a wine bottle so did they b2 say what they did with the empties?

[thailandchilli]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

The condom and the cig butt are non-issues. Beam yourself up to what's been happening. Even the glass is a non-issue. We didn't hear mention of glass being found at or near the crime until recently. The only significance of glass-used-as-weapon is it's proof the B2 were tortured, because they wouldn't have admitted to using glass if they weren't tortured. Reason? Because there was no glass, broken or whole, at the crime scene, and the first mention of glass was when the roti-seller (and/or an RTP'man) introduced the idea at the interrogation. Since there are so many issues and bits of evidence that do or could point to the real culprits, let's not get sidelined (and wasting time) with items which are unimportant to solving the crime.

Well excuuuse me some of us have lives that involve other things than spinning ourselves into a tizzy onThaivisa. There is so much BS on here how could anyone follow it. Maybe the glass bottle or what ever it was floated away when the tide came in?

Some of us have passion about justice. I've never seen a smashed wine bottle float by the way

[beammeup]

does it say somewhere that it was smashed

[beammeup]

I think we all want justice.

[thailandchilli]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

The condom and the cig butt are non-issues. Beam yourself up to what's been happening. Even the glass is a non-issue. We didn't hear mention of glass being found at or near the crime until recently. The only significance of glass-used-as-weapon is it's proof the B2 were tortured, because they wouldn't have admitted to using glass if they weren't tortured. Reason? Because there was no glass, broken or whole, at the crime scene, and the first mention of glass was when the roti-seller (and/or an RTP'man) introduced the idea at the interrogation. Since there are so many issues and bits of evidence that do or could point to the real culprits, let's not get sidelined (and wasting time) with items which are unimportant to solving the crime.

Well they said they had beers and a wine bottle so did they b2 say what they did with the empties?

I hazard a guess that the beach cleaners picked them up? Something that would of course have been checked by a competent investigation

[thailandchilli]

does it say somewhere that it was smashed

yes but I'll let you find out where

[beammeup]

Well I'll get right on it then. not

[AleG]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

[Soutpeel]

I have stayed out of this thread completely, but have read all the the posts but can I ask the following question as the thread gets very confused

Did the prosecution present any tangible or physical evidence connecting the B2 to this crime ? Given they boasted they had a perfect case ? My reading of the information says no....they presented nothing, and confessions under reputed torture doesn't count, I mean verifiable scientific evidence presented to to the court ?

[catsanddogs]

I have stayed out of this thread completely, but have read all the the posts but can I ask the following question as the thread gets very confused

Did the prosecution present any tangible or physical evidence connecting the B2 to this crime ? Given they boasted they had a perfect case ? My reading of the information says no....they presented nothing, and confessions under reputed torture doesn't count, I mean verifiable scientific evidence presented to to the court ?

No.

[thailandchilli]

I have stayed out of this thread completely, but have read all the the posts but can I ask the following question as the thread gets very confused

Did the prosecution present any tangible or physical evidence connecting the B2 to this crime ? Given they boasted they had a perfect case ? My reading of the information says no....they presented nothing, and confessions under reputed torture doesn't count, I mean verifiable scientific evidence presented to to the court ?

No, nothing has been presented by the prosecution that to international standards could be deemed as verifiable.

The DNA matches from Hannah have not been verified and in fact the the chain of custody has not even been presented to the court.

She also did not supply the full documentation of the results she gathered in her forensic testing, citing a policy that bars scientists from providing investigative officers with detailed graphs of a person’s genetic makeup.

The defendants’ lawyer, Nakhon, said he was suspicious of this reasoning, and has requested access to all of the material in order to ascertain whether any documents were tampered with.

"The prosecutor tried to be evasive by saying that no law supports giving the graphs and tables to the investigative officers, which is true," he said. "But once you testify to the court, you must show them."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437661326

DR Pornthip also touched on the credibility of all DNA evidence.

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 6h6 hours ago

Dr Pornthip said several material irregularities in all DNA testing processes Koh Tao case that needed further explanation/justification

Edited September 12, 2015 by metisdead

[lucaswallachia]

So the only thing that makes the b2 suspects is they that they were at the beach that night/morning ?

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Ok, so what do you think of what they said they did that night are a coincidence?

[patinseoul]

i imagine there are some very bewildered old thai officials that can't comprehend how all of their tried and true methods of getting the results they want are now failing.

the lying, payoffs, scapegoats, stall tactics, methods have worked for years, and the thai public has always played their part by shrugginh their shoulders and rolling their eyes, and just getting on with their lives knowing that the corruption problems were too big to fix.

then facebook, twitter, chatroom discussions, smart phone video feeds come along and screw evrything up by shining a spotlight on the lies and corruption.

damn those foreigners and young thais and their social media relentlessness!

it will be interesting too see how the thai officials will try to weasel their way out from under this international scrutiny. some very clever lies and desperate finger pointing will be popping up soon i imagine.

[timewilltell]

They do not need evidence to convict them. The prisons are full of people who were convicted with no evidence.Its up to the defendants to prove they are innocent. Thats how this system works

Unless of course the defendants are Thai and the Plaintiff is a foreigner in which case it works the other way around and even if you have a vast body of evidence yet the Thai defendants have none save 'I can't remember' and 'I don't know' - any excuse to let them off will do. In the UK judges cannot take their own evidence - meaning the evidence has to be presented and a decision made based on that evidence. In Thailand judges are at liberty to make up their own story regardless of evidence - whatever suits the decision they want to give and that is provided by the law. If you think there is ANY justice in Thailand then you clearly know very little about the place.

As for the police - well I think that subject needs no comment really!

[Adeeos]

Again poor inept police work. From the beginning I was not convinced these 2 where guilty. Its clear now that they are not. They need to be compensated and the police need to

publicly apologize to them . They need to be granted Thai citizenship and be made whole again

And now the real murder is walking free

This is soooooo sad

While I do agree with your sentiment,,,,

"They need to be granted Thai citizenship and be made whole again"....

REALLY?.... like THAT would be somewhat appealing to these two at THIS point?,,,, Thailand will be LUCKY if these two don't go home, and RUIN what EVER is left of it's reputation with ALL of Burma,, and the REST of any and ALL civilization!!!!!!!!

[Kru Baa]

Right. And we know who it does match. So...... Here's Thailands chance to stop being the biggest laughing stock of a country and get the guys that the RTP have been trying to protect all this time. And might as well get the ones trying to cover it up too.

[whaleboneman]

Really no big surprises here. The RTP already gave testimony in court that they moved the body (David) for fear it might be washed away but the tide. Whether that was the right thing to do or not I don't know. But it does sound like a plausible reason to do so. It was never claimed the Hannah's Body was moved.

As to the garden hoe it is also known that the hoe was moved after the murders. The partially blind gardener (Beach Cleaner) already admitted he did in court. It then would not be considered unusual that his finger prints may have been on the hoe, although that was never proved by either side as far as I know. Since the hoe was moved I suppose anyone could have touched it.

This would have had much more significance if the hoe was found at the murder scene untouched, but it wasn't. Anyone could have touched it after that and the gardener already admitted he did. It is more likely that the hoe was thrown in the ocean and was washed. Based on that only a trace amount of Hannah' s Blood was found on the hoe. When you consider that if this was the murder weapon, and the blood splatter on the nearby rocks, there should have been more blood on it, that is unless it was washed off first.

The most damning evidence has been the DNA linking the accused to Hannah. To my knowledge this hasn't been disproved yet. If the Defense Team can do that, than fine. If they cannot then, but show reasonable doubt, then I am not sure.

Do you expect anyone to believe that the murderer washed the murder weapon in the sea and then returned it to the scene of the crime???

[Kru Baa]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

Last week, a partially blind Burmese beach cleaner told the court he spotted the garden hoe at the scene before police arrived, and returned the tool to its normal spot nearby. Upon police's request, he later retrieved the hoe, which he said he was unaware was covered in blood.

“The garden hoe yielded no DNA traces and no fingerprints, according to police,” said the defendants’ lawyer, Nakhon Chompuchat. “But we think there should be something left.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626&typecate=06&section=

In other words, the DNA of the real killers was all over it so they decided not to admit that evidence.

[SiSePuede419]

File this under "No thit, Thurlock"

[catsanddogs]

Thai police are now being urged to expand the rape and murder enquiry mid-trial ...

The shock announcement surprised even the defence lawyers, led by Nakhon Chomphuchat, who had been told by the Thai police there was no DNA found on the garden hoe.

Now both Dr Pornthip and Mr Chomphuchat have called on the police to find out whose DNA is on the murder weapon.

“Those people must have been present at the scene of the killings,” said Mr Chomphuchat. “Investigators should now find those suspects and take action.”

Full article http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Edited September 12, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[borisloosebrain]

Moments like this I wish it was trial by jury, not by judge.

[EASYDOGG]

RTP

Really Terrrible Protectors of the Thai people.

What does your RTP stand for?

Edited September 11, 2015 by EASYDOGG

[berybert]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

We have now confirmed that the DNA from the hoe did not belong to the B2. Yes maybe they should walk and that would be the end of the story but still they could be involved in some way, they are still a part of this mystery.

And please stay on topic this time , before you consider attacking "RTP defenders".

Staying on track, why are you so keen that they could still be a part of the mystery ? Just a thought if the RTP had done the job they are paid to do by the state as opposed to the job they have been paid to do by certain people on Koh Tao there might not be a mystery to solve. Have you never thought of that ?

[rockingrobin]

Really no big surprises here. The RTP already gave testimony in court that they moved the body (David) for fear it might be washed away but the tide. Whether that was the right thing to do or not I don't know. But it does sound like a plausible reason to do so. It was never claimed the Hannah's Body was moved.

As to the garden hoe it is also known that the hoe was moved after the murders. The partially blind gardener (Beach Cleaner) already admitted he did in court. It then would not be considered unusual that his finger prints may have been on the hoe, although that was never proved by either side as far as I know. Since the hoe was moved I suppose anyone could have touched it.

This would have had much more significance if the hoe was found at the murder scene untouched, but it wasn't. Anyone could have touched it after that and the gardener already admitted he did. It is more likely that the hoe was thrown in the ocean and was washed. Based on that only a trace amount of Hannah' s Blood was found on the hoe. When you consider that if this was the murder weapon, and the blood splatter on the nearby rocks, there should have been more blood on it, that is unless it was washed off first.

The most damning evidence has been the DNA linking the accused to Hannah. To my knowledge this hasn't been disproved yet. If the Defense Team can do that, than fine. If they cannot then, but show reasonable doubt, then I am not sure.

Do you expect anyone to believe that the murderer washed the murder weapon in the sea and then returned it to the scene of the crime???

Although GB post contains inaccuracies I am not going to dwell on them , but I do think we are not asking the right questions

Why was the hoe allowed to be compromised, its significance was established soon after discovery , when the owner was advised to put on a pair of gloves and return it , at this point it should have been secured and protected

If as the RTP claim there was no DNA on the hoe how could they make the statement that only Hannahs DNA was present

[AleG]

No, it's that they were there on that night, that they said they just happened to find a phone identical to one of the one taken from one of the victims and that there are DNA results, that so far have not been contested, that link them to the crime.

Their explanations of what they did on that night leave a lot to be desired, from what they've said so far it sounds like a string of very convenient coincidences.

As for the bottles, I don't remember any mention of bottles being found at the place were they had been sitting, on the other hand cigarette butts were found and checked for DNA and that's one of the clues that led to their arrest; according to their account they drank three bottles of beer and one of wine on that spot.

Ok, so what do you think of what they said they did that night are a coincidence?

They claim they just happened to find a phone identical to the one that was missing from one of the victims near the scene of the murders (without otherwise noticing anything else), also that the clothes they were wearing on that night were stolen when they went for a swim. So the first coincidence is that of all of the people on the island the police would have picked these two "scapegoats" that just happened to have found that phone on that night at that place, and the second that when, presumably, asked about the clothes they were wearing on that night, that if they took part in the murders would probably be bloodstained, they just happened to had been stolen when they went for a swim on that night.

[dundee48]

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

Yea shit happens every day, lets all presume the the DNA was put there after they tested it first, great the RTP will love you, any other bright thoughts

Yes and 1 of the usual suspects(shills) who professes to be neutral once again `likes` a post by a fellow shill.Far too common an occurance,in his posts he tries to be neutral but can`t help `liking` all the fellow shills posts.

No credibilty.

[fritzzz25]

Is it just me, or is this somewhat confusing?

The DNA on the hoe would most likely be the victims,no?

The article seems to insinuate there is unknown DNA on it,

yet it doesnt go as far as to say the DNA doesnt belong to the victims either.

It also doesnt state that the DNA was sourced from blood or otherwise

Logic would have it, if the DNA wasnt blood based, it could be DNA from the gardener or anyone that used the hoe for gardening or whatever innocent purpose.

But surely they would already have taken the DNA of the gardener to exclude from the evidence pool?

if you READ one report it said DNA of two males found on the hoe, neither of which were the defendants. One could be the gardener. I doubt anyone took his DNA.

I would suggest that if either of the defendants DNA had handled the murder weapon, their DNA could also have been on it.

Stephen the exertion needed to swing that how around would in my opinion mean the full profile was of the killer was transferred. The partial could well be from an individual not connected. But nobody can convince me you can haul that hoe around beating 2 people to death over a sustained amount of time and NOT transfer DNA to it. It beggars belief some people can even consider that a possibility.

I am sure at the time of the murders you would be 100% correct. But who is to say standing by an ocean that this could not be washed off afterwards? The hoe was only linked to these murders as traces of Hannah's Blood was found on it. It doesn't mean there could not be more than one, as many people suggested here already.

The Police thought at first that maybe a wood club was also involved, but they never found it with DNA linking to anything.A rock could have easily been found and used there as well. But since they could not find a DNA again it is not proved. A rock thrown in the ocean afterwards, is just a clean rock. A Wood Stick thrown n the ocean afterwards, become drift wood. If they can't tie them to a murder it means nothing. I personally believe something else was used.

Next you will tell us it was Colonel Mustard, in the study, with a lead pipe. When the evidence is proven not to fit, you will find something else. Could it be that a piece of the Titanic was used to commit the murder? With your thinking, that would be a resounding yes!